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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

SubjectAuthor
* Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw Simon Mason
+* Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which JNugent
|`- Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which Spike
`* Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which Simon Mason
 `- Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which Simon Mason

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Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

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Subject: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash
which saw driver jailed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 18:52 UTC

It'll never cease to surprise me (although it probably should have by now) that no matter how obviously not a cyclist's fault a collision can be, there'll still be a queue of people claiming to the contrary. Exhibit A:

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/coventry-crash-may-2023-west-midlands-police.png

This is the footage, released by West Midlands Police, showing the moment a 71-year-old cyclist was left with a bleed on the brain, a broken shoulder and a broken ankle after a driver — who was jailed for 12 months after pleading guilty to causing serious injury by careless driving — ignored give way markings and caused the collision.

As Traffic Sergeant Jordan Keen from West Midlands Police pointed out: "She [the victim] is an experienced cyclist and a member of a local cycling club, but it's clear from the footage that Freeman's careless driving when crossing the junction meant she stood no chance."

And yet, the top responses to West Midlands Police's post?

"Wow the cyclist shouldn't have been going that fast though?!"

"The cyclist should have been extra vigilant approaching that junction. The cyclist is the more vulnerable road user. Given the speed, it was probably an electric bike. That would have been 100 per cent fatal if they weren't wearing a helmet!"

"Cyclist is going way too fast. Probably breaking the speed limit but clearly not proceeding towards a major crossing with caution. Irresponsible."

Give me strength...

BBC and Channel 5 presenter Jeremy Vine, who cycles around London and posts videos of his travels on social media, has also commented on the footage too, saying: "Watch the red car. Watch the cyclist. Now ask yourself, 'Was the woman on the bicycle to blame in any way for that collision? Should she have avoided it?' If your answer is any version of yes, YOU MUST stop driving and surrender your driving licence to the authorities."

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-29-december-2023-305873#live-blog-item-53461

Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking
crash which saw driver jailed
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 19:44:25 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 19:44 UTC

On 29/12/2023 06:52 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> It'll never cease to surprise me (although it probably should have by now) that no matter how obviously not a cyclist's fault a collision can be, there'll still be a queue of people claiming to the contrary. Exhibit A:
>
> https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/coventry-crash-may-2023-west-midlands-police.png
>
> This is the footage, released by West Midlands Police, showing the moment a 71-year-old cyclist was left with a bleed on the brain, a broken shoulder and a broken ankle after a driver — who was jailed for 12 months after pleading guilty to causing serious injury by careless driving — ignored give way markings and caused the collision.
>
> As Traffic Sergeant Jordan Keen from West Midlands Police pointed out: "She [the victim] is an experienced cyclist and a member of a local cycling club, but it's clear from the footage that Freeman's careless driving when crossing the junction meant she stood no chance."
>
> And yet, the top responses to West Midlands Police's post?
>
> "Wow the cyclist shouldn't have been going that fast though?!"

Correct. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the
roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach
to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
(irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.
>
> "The cyclist should have been extra vigilant approaching that junction. The cyclist is the more vulnerable road user. Given the speed, it was probably an electric bike. That would have been 100 per cent fatal if they weren't wearing a helmet!"

Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads were
always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
(irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
surprise.>
>
> "Cyclist is going way too fast. Probably breaking the speed limit but clearly not proceeding towards a major crossing with caution. Irresponsible."

Absolutely correct. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to
use the roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the
approach to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second
emergency (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much
of a surprise.>
>
> Give me strength...
>
> BBC and Channel 5 presenter Jeremy Vine, who cycles around London and posts videos of his travels on social media, has also commented on the footage too, saying: "Watch the red car. Watch the cyclist. Now ask yourself, 'Was the woman on the bicycle to blame in any way for that collision?

Yes. See above. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use
the roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the
approach to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second
emergency (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much
of a surprise.>

> Should she have avoided it?'

Yes. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads
were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
(irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
surprise.>

> If your answer is any version of yes, YOU MUST stop driving and surrender your driving licence to the authorities."

When I want advice from the belligerent nutter called Jeremy Vine, I'll
ask for it, thanks.

Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads were
always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
(irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
surprise.>
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-29-december-2023-305873#live-blog-item-53461

Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

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Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking
crash which saw driver jailed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 20:03 UTC

This is the POLICE account of the collision:

QUOTE:

Driver jailed for a year for causing horror crash with cyclist

This is the horrifying moment a cyclist was sent spinning into the air after being hit by a driver who pulled out in front of her.

The cyclist, aged 71, was left with a bleed on the brain, broken shoulder and broken ankle and spent five days in hospital.

Today we're releasing the footage, with the agreement of the victim, to highlight the responsibility drivers have to more vulnerable road users.

Watch the footage here. https://twitter.com/i/status/1740362775325790523

The driver of the Citroen C3 Flair, Thomas Freeman, aged 29, has now been jailed for a year following the collision, which happened on 6 May on Wildcroft Road at its junction with Brookside Avenue in Coventry.

Freeman, of Torrington Avenue, Coventry, admitted causing serious injury by careless driving.

He was also banned from driving for two years when he appeared at Warwick Crown Court on December 21, following a probe by our Traffic Investigations Unit (TIU).

T/Sgt Jordan Keen, from our TIU, said: “This was an appalling piece of careless driving which left the cyclist badly injured.

“She is an experienced cyclist and a member of a local cycling club, but it’s clear from the footage that Freeman’s careless driving when crossing the junction meant she stood no chance.

“I hope that drivers who see this footage know that they have a responsibility to more vulnerable road users out there, such as cyclists and pedestrians.”

ENDS

QED.

Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

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From: aero.spike@mail.com (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for
shocking crash which saw driver jailed
Date: 29 Dec 2023 22:21:50 GMT
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 by: Spike - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:21 UTC

JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
> On 29/12/2023 06:52 pm, Simon Mason wrote:
>
>> It'll never cease to surprise me (although it probably should have by
>> now) that no matter how obviously not a cyclist's fault a collision can
>> be, there'll still be a queue of people claiming to the contrary. Exhibit A:
>>
>> https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/coventry-crash-may-2023-west-midlands-police.png
>>
>> This is the footage, released by West Midlands Police, showing the
>> moment a 71-year-old cyclist was left with a bleed on the brain, a
>> broken shoulder and a broken ankle after a driver — who was jailed for
>> 12 months after pleading guilty to causing serious injury by careless
>> driving — ignored give way markings and caused the collision.
>>
>> As Traffic Sergeant Jordan Keen from West Midlands Police pointed out:
>> "She [the victim] is an experienced cyclist and a member of a local
>> cycling club, but it's clear from the footage that Freeman's careless
>> driving when crossing the junction meant she stood no chance."
>>
>> And yet, the top responses to West Midlands Police's post?
>>
>> "Wow the cyclist shouldn't have been going that fast though?!"
>
> Correct. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the
> roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach
> to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
> (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.
>>
>> "The cyclist should have been extra vigilant approaching that junction.
>> The cyclist is the more vulnerable road user. Given the speed, it was
>> probably an electric bike. That would have been 100 per cent fatal if
>> they weren't wearing a helmet!"
>
> Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads were
> always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
> crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
> (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
> surprise.>
>>
>> "Cyclist is going way too fast. Probably breaking the speed limit but
>> clearly not proceeding towards a major crossing with caution. Irresponsible."
>
> Absolutely correct. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to
> use the roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the
> approach to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second
> emergency (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much
> of a surprise.>
>>
>> Give me strength...
>>
>> BBC and Channel 5 presenter Jeremy Vine, who cycles around London and
>> posts videos of his travels on social media, has also commented on the
>> footage too, saying: "Watch the red car. Watch the cyclist. Now ask
>> yourself, 'Was the woman on the bicycle to blame in any way for that collision?
>
> Yes. See above. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use
> the roads were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the
> approach to a crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second
> emergency (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much
> of a surprise.>
>
>> Should she have avoided it?'
>
> Yes. Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads
> were always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
> crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
> (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
> surprise.>
>
>> If your answer is any version of yes, YOU MUST stop driving and
>> surrender your driving licence to the authorities."
>
> When I want advice from the belligerent nutter called Jeremy Vine, I'll
> ask for it, thanks.
>
> Those of us who were properly *trained* (taught) to use the roads were
> always taught that one covers the footbrake on the approach to a
> crossroads (even when we have priority). A last-second emergency
> (irrespective of who is to blame) shouldn't come as too much of a
> surprise.

Well said. As a motorcycle rider since the age of 13, I would not, having
seen the grey car pull out, have carried on blithely at the same speed in
the same manner as the cyclist did, but rolled the throttle back and
covered the front brake.

The cyclist appears not to have realised that she was invisible to the red
car, the grey car hiding the early part of her approach while also blocking
her view of the red car. Even then, she appears not to have noticed the red
car at all because there are no obvious signs of braking, or steering away
from the threat, or any attempt to take extreme evasive action by laying
the cycle down. What happened to the situational awareness demanded by the
Highway Code, implicitly if not explicitly? Where was her duty of care to
other road users?

Anyone who fails to see any of these points should hand their licence in to
the authorities, and if a cyclist, get some road awareness training.

>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-29-december-2023-305873#live-blog-item-53461

--
Spike

Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking crash which saw driver jailed

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Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine in disbelief at people blaming cyclist for shocking
crash which saw driver jailed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 08:41 UTC

QUOTE:
The driver of the Citroen C3 Flair, Thomas Freeman, aged 29, has now been jailed for a year following the collision, which happened on 6 May on Wildcroft Road at its junction with Brookside Avenue in Coventry. He was also banned from driving for two years when he appeared at Warwick Crown Court on December 21, following a probe by our Traffic Investigations Unit (TIU). ENDS

A de facto 3 years driving ban for this dangerous piece of scum.
Safer roads for a few years for everyone.
Win win.

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