Drivers fined for speeding on a road with an incorrect speed limit sign will not have their penalties waived, the Met Police has said.

In October a section of the A20 in south-east London, near Sidcup heading east towards Kent, had its speed limit reduced from 70mph to 40mph due to persistent flooding, Transport for London (TfL) said.

However, hundreds of drivers say they were caught out by the 50mph speed limit sign put up by what TfL says was an "unauthorised party".

While the Met admits the sign should not have been there, the force said it "would not have impacted the enforcement of the 40mph average speed limit"..

Jonathan Devito, who drives for a living, said he was caught out by the rogue sign.

He told BBC News: "After the 40mph sign, suddenly a 50mph sign appeared and then you can speed up and suddenly there's another 40mph sign - it's very confusing."

Mr Devito already had three points on his licence and has received three penalty notices due to his use of the stretch of road, which could put him at risk of a driving ban.

"When you know that you're going to lose your licence, your income. I didn't want to tell the wife, I didn't want to go out. It was just dreadful," he said.

Dominic Smith, a solicitor with Patterson Law, which specialises in driver defence, said about 600 people had come forward about the issue.

"A lot of people didn't realise they were committing offences until it was too late," he said.

Mr Smith said those using the road every day could have inadvertently committed multiple driving offences.

Last week he backed drivers in their call for the penalties to be waived.

The affected drivers face the prospect of accepting the penalty notices and points or challenging the penalties in court, Mr Smith added.

Responding to calls to waive the penalties, a Met Police spokesperson said: "Our prosecutions team, which deals with speeding offences, has taken legal advice and the location of the 50mph sign would not have impacted the enforcement."

The force contends that if a motorist was to have travelled through the section signed as 40mph at the maximum permitted speed of 40mph, then sped up to 50mph after seeing the now-removed 50mph sign, their average speed of the section covered by cameras would not have resulted in them being issued with a speeding ticket.

The spokesperson added that the offending 50mph sign was being investigated "as an attempt to pervert the course of justice".

A social media group set up by those seeking to challenge the penalties has attracted more than 2,700 members.

Concerns have also been raised about the visibility of the legitimate 40mph signs installed by TfL.

Leon Funnell said he was given a £100 penalty charge and three points on his licence for driving at 70mph in the 40mph stretch, which happened because of "inadequate signage".

He said the signage was too infrequent and that it was particularly difficult for drivers in the the right-hand lane to see the signs installed to the left of the road.

"The effect of this is that the 40mph zone should only be enforceable in the left-hand lane," Mr Funnell said.

He added: "It is highly unlikely that drivers have willfully ignored the speed limit change."

A TfL spokesperson said "safety is the number one priority" and construction work to tackle the flooding on the A20 Sidcup Road was set to begin in May.

"We want to ensure that all drivers are treated fairly, and speed limit signage was installed to reflect the new limit," they added.

BBC News has asked for an additional TfL response regarding concerns over the visibility of its signage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84nqxvvq37o

On 14/02/2024 12:46, Simon Mason wrote:

> Drivers fined for speeding on a road with an incorrect speed limit sign will not have their penalties waived, the Met Police has said.
> In October a section of the A20 in south-east London, near Sidcup heading east towards Kent, had its speed limit reduced from 70mph to 40mph due to persistent flooding, Transport for London (TfL) said.
> However, hundreds of drivers say they were caught out by the 50mph speed limit sign put up by what TfL says was an "unauthorised party".
> While the Met admits the sign should not have been there, the force said it "would not have impacted the enforcement of the 40mph average speed limit".
> Jonathan Devito, who drives for a living, said he was caught out by the rogue sign.
> He told BBC News: "After the 40mph sign, suddenly a 50mph sign appeared and then you can speed up and suddenly there's another 40mph sign - it's very confusing."
> Mr Devito already had three points on his licence and has received three penalty notices due to his use of the stretch of road, which could put him at risk of a driving ban.
> "When you know that you're going to lose your licence, your income. I didn't want to tell the wife, I didn't want to go out. It was just dreadful," he said.
> Dominic Smith, a solicitor with Patterson Law, which specialises in driver defence, said about 600 people had come forward about the issue.
> "A lot of people didn't realise they were committing offences until it was too late," he said.
> Mr Smith said those using the road every day could have inadvertently committed multiple driving offences.
> Last week he backed drivers in their call for the penalties to be waived.
> The affected drivers face the prospect of accepting the penalty notices and points or challenging the penalties in court, Mr Smith added.
> Responding to calls to waive the penalties, a Met Police spokesperson said: "Our prosecutions team, which deals with speeding offences, has taken legal advice and the location of the 50mph sign would not have impacted the enforcement."
> The force contends that if a motorist was to have travelled through the section signed as 40mph at the maximum permitted speed of 40mph, then sped up to 50mph after seeing the now-removed 50mph sign, their average speed of the section covered by cameras would not have resulted in them being issued with a speeding ticket.
> The spokesperson added that the offending 50mph sign was being investigated "as an attempt to pervert the course of justice".
> A social media group set up by those seeking to challenge the penalties has attracted more than 2,700 members.
> Concerns have also been raised about the visibility of the legitimate 40mph signs installed by TfL.
> Leon Funnell said he was given a £100 penalty charge and three points on his licence for driving at 70mph in the 40mph stretch, which happened because of "inadequate signage".
> He said the signage was too infrequent and that it was particularly difficult for drivers in the the right-hand lane to see the signs installed to the left of the road.
> "The effect of this is that the 40mph zone should only be enforceable in the left-hand lane," Mr Funnell said.
> He added: "It is highly unlikely that drivers have willfully ignored the speed limit change."
> A TfL spokesperson said "safety is the number one priority" and construction work to tackle the flooding on the A20 Sidcup Road was set to begin in May.
> "We want to ensure that all drivers are treated fairly, and speed limit signage was installed to reflect the new limit," they added.
> BBC News has asked for an additional TfL response regarding concerns over the visibility of its signage.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84nqxvvq37o

QUOTE: He told BBC News: "After the 40mph sign, suddenly a 50mph sign appeared and then you can speed up and suddenly there's another 40mph sign - it's very confusing." ENDS

Yes - I'm sure it is, if you can't understand how speed limits work.

QUOTE: Mr Devito already had three points on his licence and has received three penalty notices due to his use of the stretch of road, which could put him at risk of a driving ban.ENDS

Ah - a serial scofflaw eh? Caveat Emptor as we say in the trade.

On 16/02/2024 02:03, Simon Mason wrote:

> QUOTE: He told BBC News: "After the 40mph sign, suddenly a 50mph sign appeared and then you can speed up and suddenly there's another 40mph sign - it's very confusing." ENDS
>
> Yes - I'm sure it is, if you can't understand how speed limits work.
>
> QUOTE: Mr Devito already had three points on his licence and has received three penalty notices due to his use of the stretch of road, which could put him at risk of a driving ban.ENDS
>
> Ah - a serial scofflaw eh? Caveat Emptor as we say in the trade.

How do limits work, then?

When you have just passed a 50 sign, what is the legal maximum speed?

Think carefully... (that might be asking too much, I realise)...

And do I need to remind you... windscreen wipers...?

QUOTE: However, hundreds of drivers say they were caught out by the 50mph speed limit sign put up by what TfL says was an "unauthorised party".ENDS

Ah, so some chav in a BMW with a sawn off exhaust was going around bolting rogue 50mph signs to roadside lamp posts?
No wonder they chucked out these "it's all unfair" whiners.
Let the fines stand as advised.

On 16/02/2024 13:13, Simon Mason wrote:

> QUOTE: However, hundreds of drivers say they were caught out by the 50mph speed limit sign put up by what TfL says was an "unauthorised party".ENDS

> Ah, so some chav in a BMW with a sawn off exhaust was going around bolting rogue 50mph signs to roadside lamp posts?
> No wonder they chucked out these "it's all unfair" whiners.
> Let the fines stand as advised.

No chavs drive BMWs; as we all know full well, *chav-cycles* are the
transport of choice for chavs.

But other than that, I'm sure you know.. er... best... M'Lud.

QUOTE: Mr Smith said those using the road every day could have inadvertently committed multiple driving offences. Last week he backed drivers in their call for the penalties to be waived.ENDS

Take it to court then - then you can pay the fine AND the court costs.
Go on - take it all the way to the ECHR.
Just like the garden fence dispute gammons.
Idiots.