I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio moving from
Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now, which in my view negates
the point of having it on there, they are also going DAB plus on that band.
I was wondering if we are in fact seeing the beginning of the end for Radio
on this platform? Just how much more bandwidth would they get from chucking
radio off though? Brian

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On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio moving from
> Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
telly....

On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio moving
>> from
>> Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
> telly....
>

From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations
are running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb.
As the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard speed
for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the landline
feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept that many
are likely using IP connections but there may be other that do not - AND
it means that two 64kb services can be run over an existing 128kb
digital line if that is what they are using for stereo. Yet more saving.

On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 14:52:19 +0100, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio moving
>>> from
>>> Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
>> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
>> telly....
>>
> From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations
>are running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb.
>As the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
>going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard speed
>for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the landline
>feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept that many
>are likely using IP connections but there may be other that do not - AND
>it means that two 64kb services can be run over an existing 128kb
>digital line if that is what they are using for stereo. Yet more saving.

I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but
surely for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be
miniscule compared to a TV channel?

On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
> I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but surely
> for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be miniscule
> compared to a TV channel?

So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?

On 25/08/2023 15:49, MB wrote:
> On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
>> I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but
>> surely for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be
>> miniscule compared to a TV channel?
>
>
> So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?

Only in Scotland to accommodate BBC Alba TV.

For the vast majority of the UK population that's not the case

BBC National Radio on Freeview runs at 192k

In article <ucaf2n$2nv7$2@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
> > I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but surely
> > for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be miniscule
> > compared to a TV channel?

> So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?

This is, of course, a Scotland only problem to allow space from BBC Alba.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Fri, 25 Aug 23 15:30:03 UTC, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <ucaf2n$2nv7$2@dont-email.me>,
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
>> > I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but surely
>> > for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be miniscule
>> > compared to a TV channel?
>
>> So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?
>
>This is, of course, a Scotland only problem to allow space from BBC Alba.

Though it does of course contextualise my suggestion that there is
loads of space on TV multiplexes.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> writes:

> On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio
>>> moving from Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
>> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
>> telly....
>>
>
> From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations
> are running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb. As
> the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
> going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard
> speed for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the
> landline feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept
> that many are likely using IP connections but there may be other that
> do not - AND it means that two 64kb services can be run over an
> existing 128kb digital line if that is what they are using for stereo.
> Yet more saving.

My expectation is that stereo can be delivered with rather less
bandwidth than two independent mono channels.

--
Pete Forman
https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/

Classic is still in Mono, and sounds very hard and peaky as well. It used to
be quite nice sounding.
Brian

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"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ucabmk$250m$1@dont-email.me...
> On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio moving
>>> from
>>> Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
>> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
>> telly....
>>
>
> From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations are
> running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb.
> As the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
> going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard speed
> for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the landline
> feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept that many are
> likely using IP connections but there may be other that do not - AND it
> means that two 64kb services can be run over an existing 128kb digital
> line if that is what they are using for stereo. Yet more saving.

What on Freeview? I don't see that here. Maybe its only on some of the non
main transmitters.
Brian

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"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:ucaf2n$2nv7$2@dont-email.me...
> On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
>> I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but surely
>> for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be miniscule
>> compared to a TV channel?
>
>
> So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?

Yes that is the minimum to be tolerable in my experience. In the early days
of DAB there was a live Bee Gees concert at the beeb putout with great
dynamics and realistic sound. What they do now is marred by compression and
severe brick wall filtering at hf and lower bit rates. Sounds flat and
grainy.
Brian

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"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:kkru78FqmvjU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 25/08/2023 15:49, MB wrote:
>> On 25/08/2023 15:36, Scott wrote:
>>> I can understand your logic for DAB where capacity is limited but surely
>>> for Freeview the bandwidth occupied by a radio station must be miniscule
>>> compared to a TV channel?
>>
>>
>> So why do they close down Radio 1, 2 and 3 during the evening?
>
> Only in Scotland to accommodate BBC Alba TV.
>
> For the vast majority of the UK population that's not the case
>
> BBC National Radio on Freeview runs at 192k

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:53:59 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

>Classic is still in Mono, and sounds very hard and peaky as well. It used to
>be quite nice sounding.

I see Classic is on COM 5 (Freeview Heavy). As a commercial
multiplex, could this vary by area?

But they don't do that.
I feel sure that Classic FM on freeview is mono, and the person who says it
s not has not listened recently. Of course it might be an outage in some of
the distribution system where Classic has automatically switched to mono and
nobody bothers to check it.
We endured months of interference here from a faulty AM transmitter of
Premier where it was splattering over the whole medium wave band. It was
only when I rang offcom that anything was done about it.. I guess nobody
listens to medium wave any more.
Brian

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"Pete Forman" <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ysf5y52u7el.fsf@gmail.com...
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio
>>>> moving from Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
>>> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
>>> telly....
>>>
>>
>> From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations
>> are running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb. As
>> the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
>> going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard
>> speed for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the
>> landline feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept
>> that many are likely using IP connections but there may be other that
>> do not - AND it means that two 64kb services can be run over an
>> existing 128kb digital line if that is what they are using for stereo.
>> Yet more saving.
>
> My expectation is that stereo can be delivered with rather less
> bandwidth than two independent mono channels.
>
> --
> Pete Forman
> https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/

That is hard to know.
I'll have another listen this evening. Could be a long running fault in
the stereo feed, but its on the internet in Stereo, so how hard can it be to
get it at the distribution hub for London?
Brian

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"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o1jjeidn1df79t9ao55fe4uk57s3sed5rq@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:53:59 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Classic is still in Mono, and sounds very hard and peaky as well. It used
>>to
>>be quite nice sounding.
>
> I see Classic is on COM 5 (Freeview Heavy). As a commercial
> multiplex, could this vary by area?

Brian

This only applies in Scotland.

In article <ucci8e$hef8$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What on Freeview? I don't see that here. Maybe its only on some of the
> non main transmitters. Brian

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 26/08/2023 11:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
> That is hard to know.
> I'll have another listen this evening. Could be a long running fault in
> the stereo feed, but its on the internet in Stereo, so how hard can it be to
> get it at the distribution hub for London?
> Brian
>

I get Freeview from Hannington which carries BBC South / ITV Meridian
As far as I can see, at around 15:45 today Classic FM is 64k Mono.

Media Info says:
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 4
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 64.0 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 41.667 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 479 KiB (75%)
Language : English

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:08:26 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>That is hard to know.
> I'll have another listen this evening. Could be a long running fault in
>the stereo feed, but its on the internet in Stereo, so how hard can it be to
>get it at the distribution hub for London?
> Brian
I've just listened with headphones and can confirm that Classic FM is
indeed Mono in Epsom.
--
Dave W

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:09:13 +0100, Dave W wrote:

> I've just listened with headphones and can confirm that Classic FM is
> indeed Mono in Epsom.

Same here in Reigate which is a relay of CP.

--
TOJ.

That is indeed odd.
Brian

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"The Other John" <nomail@here.org> wrote in message
news:ucdqm7$p3vs$1@dont-email.me...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:09:13 +0100, Dave W wrote:
>
>> I've just listened with headphones and can confirm that Classic FM is
>> indeed Mono in Epsom.
>
> Same here in Reigate which is a relay of CP.
>
> --
> TOJ.

Not here in London, its gone mono for some weeks now just like the other
Global stations did some time ago.
At the moment the stereo channels are all BBc, The main1 1xtra 2 3 4 Asian
network and 6 music. 4xtra, world service if its still there, and the local
stations are all mono as well. Transworld boring radio has always been mono.
All the other commercials are mono.
Brian

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"Pete Forman" <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ysf5y52u7el.fsf@gmail.com...
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri 25/08/2023 13:04, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 25/08/2023 13:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>> I'm seeing a lot of the stations on Freeview dedicated to radio
>>>> moving from Stereo to Mono. Even Classic FM has done it now,
>>> I've just taken a listen, Classic FM on Freeview is in stereo on my
>>> telly....
>>>
>>
>> From what I can see it looks as though many of the commercial stations
>> are running at or near the lowest rate possible - 112kb or 128kb. As
>> the cost of broadcasting is directly related the data rate being used
>> going to 56kb or 64kb will slash costs. Also 64kb is the standard
>> speed for an analogue over digital (AoD) landline so the cost of the
>> landline feeding the broadcasting system is drastically cut. I accept
>> that many are likely using IP connections but there may be other that
>> do not - AND it means that two 64kb services can be run over an
>> existing 128kb digital line if that is what they are using for stereo.
>> Yet more saving.
>
> My expectation is that stereo can be delivered with rather less
> bandwidth than two independent mono channels.
>
> --
> Pete Forman
> https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/

In case anyone doesn't realise. It's not just mono, it's bad sounding
low bit rate mono.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 26/08/2023 11:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
> But they don't do that.
> I feel sure that Classic FM on freeview is mono, and the person who says it
> s not has not listened recently.

Guilty as charged, that was me. It did sound stereo when I took a quick
listen, but it can't be going by the overwhelming evidence from others
(and not least its DVB parameters) so I'll get me coat......

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Mon 28/08/2023 17:15, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 26/08/2023 11:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> But they don't do that.
>>   I feel sure that Classic FM on freeview is mono, and the person who
>> says it
>> s not has not listened recently.
>
> Guilty as charged, that was me.  It did sound stereo when I took a quick
> listen, but it can't be going by the overwhelming evidence from others
> (and not least its DVB parameters) so I'll get me coat......
>

I think this page says it all - unless I have misunderstood it - it says
Classic has always been in mono in Freeview which was my belief.

https://tinyurl.com/4jdc8dsy

On Mon 28/08/2023 23:20, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 28/08/2023 17:15, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 26/08/2023 11:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> But they don't do that.
>>>   I feel sure that Classic FM on freeview is mono, and the person who
>>> says it
>>> s not has not listened recently.
>>
>> Guilty as charged, that was me.  It did sound stereo when I took a
>> quick listen, but it can't be going by the overwhelming evidence from
>> others (and not least its DVB parameters) so I'll get me coat......
>>
>
> I think this page says it all - unless I have misunderstood it - it says
> Classic has always been in mono in Freeview which was my belief.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/4jdc8dsy

Oops! Missed the bit at the bottom.... (Can I borrow you coat please Mark?)