Reading through the small print I discover that if my line is not part
of the LLU network, there is an extra five pound charge. How would I
know whether I am part of the LLU? I don't recall ever agreeing to LLU
so I think probably not. Is it normal to charge extra for this? It seems
rather devious not to include it in the advertised price.

On 03/03/2023 18:30, Richmond wrote:
> Reading through the small print I discover that if my line is not part
> of the LLU network, there is an extra five pound charge. How would I
> know whether I am part of the LLU? I don't recall ever agreeing to LLU
> so I think probably not. Is it normal to charge extra for this? It seems
> rather devious not to include it in the advertised price.

I don't think you will had any choice in the matter - it will depend on
what arrangement your ISP has with Openreach.

See: https://www.cable.co.uk/broadband/guides/llu/#types
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> writes:

> On 03/03/2023 18:30, Richmond wrote:
>> Reading through the small print I discover that if my line is not part
>> of the LLU network, there is an extra five pound charge. How would I
>> know whether I am part of the LLU? I don't recall ever agreeing to LLU
>> so I think probably not. Is it normal to charge extra for this? It seems
>> rather devious not to include it in the advertised price.
>
> I don't think you will had any choice in the matter - it will depend
> on what arrangement your ISP has with Openreach.
>
> See: https://www.cable.co.uk/broadband/guides/llu/#types

LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't think I
have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
pounds per calendar month.

Richmond wrote:

> LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't think I
> have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
> pounds per calendar month.

Why would they suddenly start charging you £5 extra after all these years?

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

> Richmond wrote:
>
>> LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't think I
>> have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
>> pounds per calendar month.
>
> Why would they suddenly start charging you £5 extra after all these years?

I didn't explain properly, this is a prospective broadband supplier -
Cooperative Broadband, I am not with them yet. I am getting cold feet.

"^ £25 Your Broadband price is available when ADSL is provided on our
LLU network. An additional £5 a month will be charged if your exchange
is not part of the LLU network."

https://broadband.yourcoop.coop/Documents/Editor/Contract%20Summary%20-%20ADSL%20and%20FTTC%202022-07-01.pdf

Searching around the internet I discovered Pulse8 Broadband, of which I
have never heard. It doesn't come up on comparison sites but looks
good. I think maybe they use VOIP for the phone calls though.

Richmond wrote:

> I think maybe they use VOIP for the phone calls though.

That's the future for all ISPs (some won't provide voice at all, but let
you get your own VoIP if you want it)

On 03/03/2023 20:44, Richmond wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>
>> Richmond wrote:
>>
>>> LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't think I
>>> have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
>>> pounds per calendar month.
>>
>> Why would they suddenly start charging you £5 extra after all these years?
>
> I didn't explain properly, this is a prospective broadband supplier -
> Cooperative Broadband, I am not with them yet. I am getting cold feet.
>
> "^ £25 Your Broadband price is available when ADSL is provided on our
> LLU network. An additional £5 a month will be charged if your exchange
> is not part of the LLU network."
>
> https://broadband.yourcoop.coop/Documents/Editor/Contract%20Summary%20-%20ADSL%20and%20FTTC%202022-07-01.pdf
>
> Searching around the internet I discovered Pulse8 Broadband, of which I
> have never heard. It doesn't come up on comparison sites but looks
> good. I think maybe they use VOIP for the phone calls though.

If you feed your exchange into Sam Knows it will tell you if LLU is
provided on your exchange e.g.

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MRALT

Dave

On Fri 03/03/2023 21:31, David Wade wrote:
> On 03/03/2023 20:44, Richmond wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Richmond wrote:
>>>
>>>> LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't
>>>> think I
>>>> have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
>>>> pounds per calendar month.
>>>
>>> Why would they suddenly start charging you £5 extra after all these
>>> years?
>>
>> I didn't explain properly, this is a prospective broadband supplier -
>> Cooperative Broadband, I am not with them yet. I am getting cold feet.
>>
>> "^ £25 Your Broadband price is available when ADSL is provided on our
>> LLU network. An additional £5 a month will be charged if your exchange
>> is not part of the LLU network."
>>
>> https://broadband.yourcoop.coop/Documents/Editor/Contract%20Summary%20-%20ADSL%20and%20FTTC%202022-07-01.pdf
>>
>> Searching around the internet I discovered Pulse8 Broadband, of which I
>> have never heard. It doesn't come up on comparison sites but looks
>> good. I think maybe they use VOIP for the phone calls though.
>
> If you feed your exchange into Sam Knows it will tell you if LLU is
> provided on your exchange e.g.
>
> https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MRALT
>

For others, if you go to samknows.com the link you want is at the very
bottom of the front page.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri 03/03/2023 21:31, David Wade wrote:
>> On 03/03/2023 20:44, Richmond wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> Richmond wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LLU was a fairly new thing when I joined my ISP in 2004. I don't
>>>>> think I
>>>>> have LLU but obviously I need to know if I have to pay an extra five
>>>>> pounds per calendar month.
>>>>
>>>> Why would they suddenly start charging you £5 extra after all these
>>>> years?
>>>
>>> I didn't explain properly, this is a prospective broadband supplier -
>>> Cooperative Broadband, I am not with them yet. I am getting cold feet.
>>>
>>> "^ £25 Your Broadband price is available when ADSL is provided on our
>>> LLU network. An additional £5 a month will be charged if your exchange
>>> is not part of the LLU network."
>>>
>>> https://broadband.yourcoop.coop/Documents/Editor/Contract%20Summary%20-%20ADSL%20and%20FTTC%202022-07-01.pdf
>>>
>>> Searching around the internet I discovered Pulse8 Broadband, of which I
>>> have never heard. It doesn't come up on comparison sites but looks
>>> good. I think maybe they use VOIP for the phone calls though.
>>
>> If you feed your exchange into Sam Knows it will tell you if LLU is
>> provided on your exchange e.g.
>>
>> https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MRALT
>>
>
>
> For others, if you go to samknows.com the link you want is at the very
> bottom of the front page.
>
>

And if you’re lucky, it will have been updated in the last 5 years. My
experience with Samknows is that it’s *very* out of date (or at least it
was the last time I looked).

Personally, after my mother’s experience with TalkTalk, I’d be wary of
going with a LLU supplier as trying to retain her number when she wanted to
move away from them was a real PITA.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> And if you’re lucky, it will have been updated in the last 5 years. My
> experience with Samknows is that it’s *very* out of date (or at least it
> was the last time I looked).
>
> Personally, after my mother’s experience with TalkTalk, I’d be wary of
> going with a LLU supplier as trying to retain her number when she wanted to
> move away from them was a real PITA.

How does LLU work with FTTC these days? Originally LLU was the ISP
installing kit in the exchange, and the copper line was physically jumpered
over so it connected to the ISP's DSLAM not Openreach's. But with FTTC the
DSLAM is in the cabinet and I don't think the ISPs are installing their own
kit in there? (it would be very messy being so space constrained)

So does it have meaning for FTTC, or is it only for legacy ADSL customers?

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And if you’re lucky, it will have been updated in the last 5 years. My
>> experience with Samknows is that it’s *very* out of date (or at least it
>> was the last time I looked).
>>
>> Personally, after my mother’s experience with TalkTalk, I’d be wary of
>> going with a LLU supplier as trying to retain her number when she wanted to
>> move away from them was a real PITA.
>
> How does LLU work with FTTC these days? Originally LLU was the ISP
> installing kit in the exchange, and the copper line was physically jumpered
> over so it connected to the ISP's DSLAM not Openreach's. But with FTTC the
> DSLAM is in the cabinet and I don't think the ISPs are installing their own
> kit in there? (it would be very messy being so space constrained)
>
> So does it have meaning for FTTC, or is it only for legacy ADSL customers?
>

I am a legacy ADSL customer.

On 4 Mar 2023 08:43:37 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

>>> https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MRALT
>>>
>>
>> For others, if you go to samknows.com the link you want is at the very
>> bottom of the front page.
>>
>
> And if you’re lucky, it will have been updated in the last 5 years. My
> experience with Samknows is that it’s *very* out of date (or at least it
> was the last time I looked).
>
> Personally, after my mother’s experience with TalkTalk, I’d be wary of
> going with a LLU supplier as trying to retain her number when she wanted to
> move away from them was a real PITA.

Neither BT's nor Openreach's sites have anything useful linking to
exchanges.
I did a search for:
roade telephone exchange EMRDDEE
having got the reference from SK (which, for Roade, isn't out-of-date, but
only because Roade is neolithic), then did the search above.
https://telephone-exchange.co.uk/Roade-EMRDDEE.html
was first after the ads; without the ref. the link wouldn't work - 404.

--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway