On 25/10/2023 16:06, Andy Burns wrote:
> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>> There is an inherent unreliability in SMS services globally.
>
> Yes SMS offers no guarantee of delivery, but in practice, within the UK,
> I find it it very reliable.  Not used it internationally for quite some
> time, so no comment.
>

I think it was some time around 2015 when I read an article on the
subject, and the author reckoned that since the "Dawn of SMS Time"
(which I guess would be sometime around 1993) the various global network
operators had trousered at least 5 billion US dollars for carrying SMS
messages which had never been delivered.

I have no idea of the total number of messages carried, but it sounds
like a worrying large percentage to me. It was estimated that the
networks operators had revenue streams amounting to around $1000 per
megabyte.

I would suggest that the problem has died down significantly not because
of any improvements in the "Grade of Service" but more because there are
alternative messaging platforms, and because hardly anybody pays for SMS
any more.

Andy Burns wrote:

> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
> like to be able to turn it back on.
>
> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>

My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:55:09 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
>> like to be able to turn it back on.
>>
>> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>
>
>My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>
What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
will be resent by SMS? Will you then get the message again when RCS
resumes? If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

Scott wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>>
> What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
> contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
> will be resent by SMS?

Someone else's phone will tell (in more or less realtime?) if my phone
is connected to RCS, and therefore they will automatically use RCS to
reach me, instead of SMS.

Last week a friend wanted to send me a photo (actually she want to use
WhatsApp so I had to explain I wasn't on there) so I said she could use
RCS to send it to me, without having to pay MMS charges, when she tried,
she couldn't, as it happened I was in the same house as her, so I could
check her phone settings and it didn't see me as being on RCS at the
time - that was when I realised my O2->google migration was underway

I knew it had worked in the past, because I had sent her a photo via RCS
a week or two ago.

It is supposed to retry as SMS if RCS fails, I have seen it do that when
my nephew's phone was on dubious wifi.

> Will you then get the message again when RCS
> resumes? If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
> SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
> will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
> Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

I don't think it'll convert a free RCS photo to an expensive MMS photo.

On 25/10/2023 19:42, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:55:09 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
>>> like to be able to turn it back on.
>>>
>>> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>
>>
>> My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>>
> What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
> contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
> will be resent by SMS?

No. Nor are they guaranteed a prompt notification of failure.

Will you then get the message again when RCS
> resumes?

No guarantee.

If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
> SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
> will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
> Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

IME, RCS just failed miserably with a hard to understand error if one or
other party has neither 4g nor wifi coverage. So I don't use it.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:20:39 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 25/10/2023 19:42, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:55:09 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
>>>> like to be able to turn it back on.
>>>>
>>>> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>
>>>
>>> My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>>>
>> What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
>> contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
>> will be resent by SMS?
>
> No. Nor are they guaranteed a prompt notification of failure.
>
>Will you then get the message again when RCS
>> resumes?
>
> No guarantee.
>
>If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
>> SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
>> will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
>> Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?
>
> IME, RCS just failed miserably with a hard to understand error if one or
>other party has neither 4g nor wifi coverage. So I don't use it.

This seems to be exactly the situation I have encountered. I have
disabled RCS in the phone but I cannot get it to 'deregister' my
number with Google, which is supposed to be an option. It keeps saying
it has sent the six digit code but I suspect I am not getting it
because I have disabled RCS.

I am tempted to write to their data controller (GDPR) to say that I am
withdrawing consent for the use of any part of my personal data for
the purpose of managing or operating the RCS service.

Scott wrote:

> I have disabled RCS in the phone but I cannot get it to 'deregister'
> my number with Google, which is supposed to be an option. It keeps
> saying it has sent the six digit code but I suspect I am not getting
> it because I have disabled RCS.

So why not re-enable RCS for long enough to receive the code?
Presumably you could do it at a time you know you have good WiFi/4G
coverage so don't risk losing messages?

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 10:23:52 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>
>Scott wrote:
>
>> I have disabled RCS in the phone but I cannot get it to 'deregister'
>> my number with Google, which is supposed to be an option. It keeps
>> saying it has sent the six digit code but I suspect I am not getting
>> it because I have disabled RCS.
>
>So why not re-enable RCS for long enough to receive the code?
>Presumably you could do it at a time you know you have good WiFi/4G
>coverage so don't risk losing messages?

That's a good idea but I thought the whole point of RCS was that it
would automatically resend as SMS if RCS is unavailable, so why am I
not getting the code?

Scott wrote:

> I thought the whole point of RCS was that it would automatically
> resend as SMS if RCS is unavailable

I've used O2's server without ever having cause to think their RCS was
less reliable than SMS. It gives me confirmation of delivery and of
being read. I was happy that I was using a service that I actually paid
for in my contract.

The only time I saw messages not send was when I know the recipient had
flaky WiFi, it was easiest to not get too involved and just advise him
to turn off RCS at his end, actually I now know how to turn off RCS on a
per-recipient basis at my end.

> so why am I not getting the code?
Pass.

Obviously I've used google's server for less than a day, so can't
compare reliability. I'm somewhat less happy that I still pay O2 for
unlimited text messages, but (apart from iPhones etc) end-up using a
free service from google, who have zero obligation to me.