T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 23:12, David Wade wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>> ... I suspect many men carry their phone in their pockets, so why no
>>>> extra cases of male breast cancer...
>>>
>>> How do we know there aren't? I don't know, I'm just asking etc.
>>
>> Simple, because if there were, I would have lots of no-win no-fee
>> ambulance chasers harassing me on my phone, trying to get me to sign up
>> to a class legal action against Marconi for inventing wireless, Bell for
>> inventing the telephone, and Mr ever ready inventing the battery which
>> have enabled Nokia to produce phones and for putting me at risk of
>> breast cancer....
>
> But only if such a link has been made and I agree the awareness of those
> stats could be in the noise compared with the other reasons you state?

People have been talking about the risks of RF radiation for decades.
They've cherry-picked data or performed low-relevance experiments - cells
in petri dishes blasted with orders of magnitude more radiation than normal
- to highlight the risks.

The reality is that epidemiological studies show no evidence of increased
cancer due to mobile phone radiation. Here's a recent one covering 770,000
women in the UK
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2022-03-30-no-increased-risk-brain-tumours-mobile-phone-users-new-study-finds

That's significantly more than four cases.

> And what actors are out there keeping any such information quiet, or
> even actively spreading FUD (you don't need to counter the facts, you
> just need to blur them), in the same way has happened with Big Oil, Big
> Tobacco and Big Animal Ag.
>
> Too many people making big money putting others at risk.

This is countered by the thousands of health researchers and clinicians who
have a very vested interest in improving people's lives.

> Don't get me wrong here, I'm no conspiracy theorist,

Talking about "Big <whatever>" puts you close.

> I'm not stating
> there *are* risks, just a Radio Amateur surrounded by mobile phones and
> WiFi gear who is interested in such things.

Exactly EMF radiation is around us constantly and has been for at least
since the 1950s.

>> .... at present all I get are diesel car claims, offers of replacement
>> boilers, and solar panels all of which are less likely to benefit me
>> than my chances of getting breast cancer...
>>
>> also calls from Student Loans asking about my son who lives in the
>> middle east. Pointless as the chances of me getting breast cancer are
>> again higher than the odds of him return to the uk so pointless.....
>>
>> .. I am, like many of my friends and and relatives who have died from
>> cancer much more likely to sucum to
>>
>> 1. bowel cancer - family history - or
>> 2. prostrate cancer - retired male
>> 3. skin cancer - visited alps - forgot sun screen. UV is higher
>>
>> but as I am going to continue eating dead cow, phosphated pig and lastly
>> Morecambe Bay shrimps, which given the location of the nuclear plants of
>> Heysham and Sellafield come from probably one of the most radioactive
>> seas in the world, a view endorsed by Greenpeace... (not sure this web
>> site is reliable, but there are others. )
>>
>> https://www.blue-growth.org/Oceans_Rivers_Seas/Irish_Sea_The.htm
>>
>> CONTAMINATION - The Irish Sea has been described by Greenpeace as the
>> most radioactively contaminated sea in the world with some "eight
>> million litres of nuclear waste" discharged into it each day from
>> Sellafield reprocessing plants, contaminating seawater, sediments and
>> marine life.
>>
>> Just Saying
>
> Yeahbut all you are saying at the end there is that there are risks
> associated with living, not dealing with the phone radiation issue?
>
> Most of us will often choose to mitigate against known risks where
> practicable and possible and some of us *will* avoid the animal based
> foods you mention, partly for the reasons you mention. Just in the same
> way I wore a seat belt before I was obliged to legally and have never
> smoked.
>
> But you can only do this if you are aware of the risks and the Youtube
> video I linked to ... and this very thread seems to suggest the risks
> are there?

Everything has a risk. If I wanted to reduce my risk of cancer throwing my
mobile phone away would be WAY down the list.

That yt video is by a person - admittedly a person who knows the area
better than most - who has devoted decades to this, yet her fears and model
experiments haven't materialised in the actual population.

The signal that smoking was increasing lung cancer rates visible in the
data by the 1940s.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/17/abc-catalyst-program-linking-mobile-phones-to-brain-cancer-should-never-have-aired

On 29/10/2023 11:54, T i m wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 23:12, David Wade wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>> ... I suspect many men carry their phone in their pockets, so why no
>>>> extra cases of male breast cancer...
>>>
>>> How do we know there aren't? I don't know, I'm just asking etc.
>>
>> Simple, because if there were, I would have lots of no-win no-fee
>> ambulance chasers harassing me on my phone, trying to get me to sign
>> up to a class legal action against Marconi for inventing wireless,
>> Bell for inventing the telephone, and Mr ever ready inventing the
>> battery which have enabled Nokia to produce phones and for putting me
>> at risk of breast cancer....
>
> But only if such a link has been made and I agree the awareness of those
> stats could be in the noise compared with the other reasons you state?
>

Oh I don't think a link has to be established. You are quoting papers
that suggest this. On second thoughts I am actually a bit surprised no
one is doing this, especially in the USA...

> And what actors are out there keeping any such information quiet, or
> even actively spreading FUD (you don't need to counter the facts, you
> just need to blur them), in the same way has happened with Big Oil, Big
> Tobacco and Big Animal Ag.
>
> Too many people making big money putting others at risk.
>

Once there is a sniff, the no-win no-fee guys would be there

> Don't get me wrong here, I'm no conspiracy theorist, I'm not stating
> there *are* risks, just a Radio Amateur surrounded by mobile phones and
> WiFi gear who is interested in such things.

Probably more exposure from all the hash

>>
>> .... at present all I get are diesel car claims, offers of replacement
>> boilers, and solar panels all of which are less likely to benefit me
>> than my chances of getting breast cancer...
>>
>> also calls from Student Loans asking about my son who lives in the
>> middle east. Pointless as the chances of me getting breast cancer are
>> again higher than the odds of him return to the uk so pointless.....
>>
>> .. I am, like many of my friends and and relatives who have died from
>> cancer much more likely to sucum to
>>
>> 1. bowel cancer - family history - or
>> 2. prostrate cancer - retired male
>> 3. skin cancer - visited alps - forgot sun screen. UV is higher
>>
>> but as I am going to continue eating dead cow, phosphated pig and
>> lastly Morecambe Bay shrimps, which given the location of the nuclear
>> plants of Heysham and Sellafield come from probably one of the most
>> radioactive seas in the world, a view endorsed by Greenpeace... (not
>> sure this web site is reliable, but there are others. )
>>
>> https://www.blue-growth.org/Oceans_Rivers_Seas/Irish_Sea_The.htm
>>
>> CONTAMINATION - The Irish Sea has been described by Greenpeace as the
>> most radioactively contaminated sea in the world with some "eight
>> million litres of nuclear waste" discharged into it each day from
>> Sellafield reprocessing plants, contaminating seawater, sediments and
>> marine life.
>>
>> Just Saying
>
> Yeahbut all you are saying at the end there is that there are risks
> associated with living, not dealing with the phone radiation issue?
>
> Most of us will often choose to mitigate against known risks where
> practicable and possible and some of us *will* avoid the animal based
> foods you mention, partly for the reasons you mention. Just in the same
> way I wore a seat belt before I was obliged to legally and have never
> smoked.
>
> But you can only do this if you are aware of the risks and the Youtube
> video I linked to ... and this very thread seems to suggest the risks
> are there?
>
> Cheers, T i m

Well yes, but avoidance seems simple, don't stick your phone in your bra...

Dave

On 29/10/2023 13:35, David Wade wrote:

<snip>
> Once there is a sniff, the no-win no-fee guys would be there

Not always, depending on who they are up against. Important people have
been know to die in unexplained car crashes or fall off hotel balcony's ...

Like I said, you don't need to present counter arguments to dilute the
facts, you just need to keep distracting and presenting FUD, especially
when people confirmation bias prefers to believe something that they
like / need.
>
>> Don't get me wrong here, I'm no conspiracy theorist, I'm not stating
>> there *are* risks, just a Radio Amateur surrounded by mobile phones
>> and WiFi gear who is interested in such things.
>
>
> Probably more exposure from all the hash

;-)
>

<snip>
>> But you can only do this if you are aware of the risks and the Youtube
>> video I linked to ... and this very thread seems to suggest the risks
>> are there?
>>
>> Cheers, T i m
>
>
> Well yes, but avoidance seems simple, don't stick your phone in your bra...

I don't <weg>, when it's not on it's charging pad or on charge in the
car I carry mine in a belt pouch (that I 'hope' provides a bit of
distance and material between my phone and my body ... just_in_case).

But I repeat, if Apple (and others no doubt) were 100% that their phones
didn't present any risk to their users, why the update? Why the warnings
in the small print? <shrug>

I could reference some detail about mobile phone design and test
'Engineers' who wouldn't carry a mobile phone but my signature on The
Official Secrets Act form prevents me (and that was a long time ago).

And I repeat, I am not suggesting for a second that the use of mobile
phones presents any specific risk and I'm certainly not rating any
possible risk on the scale of other things, just that as an engineer I
am pre-programmed to keep my mind open to such possibilities.

Cheers, T i m