Andy Burns wrote:

> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that if Netflix were at all serious (or capable)
>> of doing something about it they would have done so by now.
>
> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.

<https://about.netflix.com/en/news/update-on-sharing-may-gb>

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that if Netflix were at all serious (or capable) of
>> doing something about it they would have done so by now.
>
> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.
>

again…

This isn’t the first time that they’ve said that they’re going to clamp
down. Nothing has ever come of it.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fredsmith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to know what Netflix can do about it.
>>>
>>> This has been documented. They make you choose which is your home network
>>> and then they require every device that uses the same account be on that
>>> network while using Netflix at least once every 30 days.
>>>
>> That's the question. How do they know it's your home network?
>>
>
>
> No idea. If you use a mobile device and only ever connect by mobile
> data because you have no broadband in the home ?

Then I'd expect those people would be asked to pay separately.

On 2023-07-10 23:43, Java Jive wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 17:58, Theo wrote:

> However, against that supposition, in support of 'No IP6':
>
>  :-( The mobile phone is Android 7.0, several versions later than the
> beginning of IP6 support, but it doesn't have an IP6 address listed
> alongside its IP4 address.
>
>  :-( I don't know if the dongle supports IP6 or not, but in its web
> interface it too has no IP6 address listed with its IP4 address.
>
>  :-( Ditto in the interfaces section of the router, the IP4 connection
> shows an IP4 address, but the IP6 connection shows no IP6 address.
>
> So I guess that's it, unless I can find a test SIM from another network
> that supports IP6 in this area.

For example, with my mobile provider (Movistar, Spain), I had to do a
config change. I had to select an alternate APN or edit it.

https://www.xataka.com/basics/como-activar-protocolo-ipv6-tu-movil-eres-cliente-movistar-u-o2

Android only at the date of publication of the article; iPhone needed an
iOS update first, adding APN dual stack as used by Telefónica/Movistar.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 11/07/2023 10:40, Mark Undrill wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 07:38, Chris wrote:

>> This has been documented. They make you choose which is your home network
>> and then they require every device that uses the same account be on that
>> network while using Netflix at least once every 30 days.
>>
> That's the question. How do they know it's your home network?

Presumably they record the MAC address and/or WAN IP address of the
router (as detected during the registration process), and check that all
traffic to them on your login is coming from that MAC/WAN-IP address.

I've forgotten what details about individual devices on your LAN gets
through the router's NAT (network address translation) by which traffic
from many devices all appears to the outside world to be coming from a
single IP and MAC. I wonder whether the technically wise could spoof
access so it appears to come from a different network (the home one)
every so often.

What's interesting is that they allow traffic from other networks *at
all*, as long as it comes from the home network once every 30 days.
Maybe it's to allow people to access Netflix while they are at a
friend's house: I've no idea what their licensing rules are.

NY wrote:

> Mark Undrill wrote:
>
>> How do they know it's your home network?
>
> Presumably they record the MAC address and/or WAN IP address of the
> router

Their servers can see the IP, but not the MAC address, though their app
running on tv/phone/tablet etc could see MAC addr.

> (as detected during the registration process), and check that all
> traffic to them on your login is coming from that MAC/WAN-IP address.

IP addrs can change (and if the did use MAC addr, they'd want to give
some leeway, would be pretty bad to upgrade your router and get locked
out of Netflix).

On 11/07/2023 20:23, Andy Burns wrote:
> NY wrote:
>
>> Mark Undrill wrote:
>>
>>> How do they know it's your home network?
>>
>> Presumably they record the MAC address and/or WAN IP address of the
>> router
>
> Their servers can see the IP, but not the MAC address, though their app
> running on tv/phone/tablet etc could see MAC addr.
>
>> (as detected during the registration process), and check that all
>> traffic to them on your login is coming from that MAC/WAN-IP address.
>
> IP addrs can change (and if the did use MAC addr, they'd want to give
> some leeway, would be pretty bad to upgrade your router and get locked
> out of Netflix).

Exactly. They need a method that reliably enforces whatever their rules
are, while at the same time not giving false positives because you've
changed your router or your ISP had given your router a different WAN IP.

Detecting the MAC at the device end and then sending it in some
encrypted non-spoofable format sounds much more like it. Depending on
how easy it is to connect the device to your own software router (eg
running on a Raspberry Pi) which you set to spoof the home network's ID
- you connect to it once in a while as a keepalive for the system.

Maybe if they see *one* device quoting a different MAC for too long,
they block it, whereas if they see a *variety* of devices quoting the
same MAC which doesn't match their records they assume you've changed
your router and update their records for the future.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 16:20:00 +0100, Abandoned_Trolley
<fred@fredsmith.co.uk> wrote:

>
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to know what Netflix can do about it.
>>>
>>> This has been documented. They make you choose which is your home network
>>> and then they require every device that uses the same account be on that
>>> network while using Netflix at least once every 30 days.
>>>
>> That's the question. How do they know it's your home network?
>>
>
>
>No idea. If you use a mobile device and only ever connect by mobile
>data because you have no broadband in the home ?

I suspect that might be a very expensive way of watching television.

Rod.

On 11 Jul 2023 17:34:14 GMT, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

>Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>> I get the impression that if Netflix were at all serious (or capable) of
>>> doing something about it they would have done so by now.
>>
>> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.
>>
>
>again…
>
>This isn’t the first time that they’ve said that they’re going to clamp
>down. Nothing has ever come of it.
>
>Tim

They probably realise that if they annoy their customers too much with
restrictions and complications they soon won't have any. It's only
telly, and there are plenty of competing sources of it to choose from.

Rod.

>>
>> No idea. If you use a mobile device and only ever connect by mobile
>> data because you have no broadband in the home ?
>
> I suspect that might be a very expensive way of watching television.
>
> Rod.

or alternatively ... a relatively cheap way.

You dont need to buy a TV, and I dont suppose too many of these people
worry about a TV licence.

--
random signature text inserted here

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 09:15:16 +0100, Abandoned_Trolley
<fred@fredsmith.co.uk> wrote:

>
>>>
>>> No idea. If you use a mobile device and only ever connect by mobile
>>> data because you have no broadband in the home ?
>>
>> I suspect that might be a very expensive way of watching television.
>>
>> Rod.
>
>or alternatively ... a relatively cheap way.
>
>
>You dont need to buy a TV, and I dont suppose too many of these people
>worry about a TV licence.

You don't need to buy a licence to watch at home either. Just
subscribe to what you want.

I was thinking of the cost of watching TV by mobile data. A home
internet connection is normally an 'all you can eat' fixed price, so
using it for hours on end to stream high definition TV wouldn't add to
the cost, but this could be very different using mobile data for
anything other than messaging and casual web browsing, where as I
understand it the data is priced by how much you use.

Rod.

>
> I was thinking of the cost of watching TV by mobile data. A home
> internet connection is normally an 'all you can eat' fixed price, so
> using it for hours on end to stream high definition TV wouldn't add to
> the cost, but this could be very different using mobile data for
> anything other than messaging and casual web browsing, where as I
> understand it the data is priced by how much you use.
>
> Rod.

I have been with giffgaff for about 8 years, and AFAIK in all that time
they have been offering a unlimited data product, and they are now
available from every mobile operator - comparethemarket.com is currently
showing over 100 unlimited data deals with various service providers, a
lot of them starting at less than £20 a month.

Also, if you are on giffgaff and live in close proximity to a o2 wifi
hotspot you get the benefit of unlimited "off plan" data, so you may not
even need to be on an unlimited tariff. I imagine some of the other
operators have wifi hot spots too.

I know that some operators apply "fair usage" policies and throttle data
at certain times of the day, and some of them discourage or even prevent
tethering under certain conditions, but if you are willing to do a bit
of research then a solution which suits you can probably be found.

And ... if you are only using a tablet to view then its unlikely that
you would be watching in HD, so the actual data use might be "manageable"

--
random signature text inserted here

Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fredsmith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I was thinking of the cost of watching TV by mobile data. A home
>> internet connection is normally an 'all you can eat' fixed price, so
>> using it for hours on end to stream high definition TV wouldn't add to
>> the cost, but this could be very different using mobile data for
>> anything other than messaging and casual web browsing, where as I
>> understand it the data is priced by how much you use.
>>
>> Rod.
>
>
> I have been with giffgaff for about 8 years, and AFAIK in all that time
> they have been offering a unlimited data product, and they are now
> available from every mobile operator - comparethemarket.com is currently
> showing over 100 unlimited data deals with various service providers, a
> lot of them starting at less than £20 a month.
>
> Also, if you are on giffgaff and live in close proximity to a o2 wifi
> hotspot you get the benefit of unlimited "off plan" data, so you may not
> even need to be on an unlimited tariff. I imagine some of the other
> operators have wifi hot spots too.
>
> I know that some operators apply "fair usage" policies and throttle data
> at certain times of the day, and some of them discourage or even prevent
> tethering under certain conditions, but if you are willing to do a bit
> of research then a solution which suits you can probably be found.
>
> And ... if you are only using a tablet to view then its unlikely that
> you would be watching in HD, so the actual data use might be "manageable"
>
>
>
>

Why do you think a tablet doesn’t manage HD? My iPad can achieve more than
that, and does through a fast connection.

>> And ... if you are only using a tablet to view then its unlikely that
>> you would be watching in HD, so the actual data use might be "manageable"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Why do you think a tablet doesn’t manage HD? My iPad can achieve more than
> that, and does through a fast connection.
>

"its unlikely that you would be watching in HD"

And a lot of tablets are NOT iPads - and have relatively low data
demands for video, some as low as 384 kb/s

I have a 22 inch TV set in the kitchen, and I struggle to tell the
difference between normal and HD where its offered on the same channel.

--
random signature text inserted here

Tim+ wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.
>
> This isn’t the first time that they’ve said that they’re going to clamp
> down. Nothing has ever come of it.

They say they've increased subscribers by 5.9m as a result ...

<https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/FINAL-Q2-23-Shareholder-Letter.pdf>

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.
>>
>> This isn’t the first time that they’ve said that they’re going to clamp
>> down. Nothing has ever come of it.
>
> They say they've increased subscribers by 5.9m as a result ...
>
> <https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/FINAL-Q2-23-Shareholder-Letter.pdf>
>
>

Scaring people into taking our their own subscriptions isn’t the same as
making people take out their own subscriptions. How many of those 5.9m
were actually forced (as in “cut off from using a shared subscription”)?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 20/07/2023 08:32, Andy Burns wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> They announced mid-May they were going to start clamping down.
>>
>> This isn’t the first time that they’ve said that they’re going to clamp
>> down.  Nothing has ever come of it.
>
> They say they've increased subscribers by 5.9m as a result ...
>
> <https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/FINAL-Q2-23-Shareholder-Letter.pdf>

That surprises me. I went in the opposite direction because I'm not
going to pay for multiple subscriptions. I was using my daughter's
account and paying for Amazon Prime. I've stopped using my daughter's
Netflix and cancelled Amazon Prime, instead I use Stremio with the
Torrentio addon and a Real-Debrid subscription of 9 Euro for 3 months.
If it's available to stream it's on there.

<https://tinyurl.com/2kdf4q7l>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/StremioAddons/comments/v6vwkf/installing_stremino_torrentio_real_debird/>