A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.

There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
disappears behind a heavy display unit.

The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.

Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
another box hidden behind the display unit?

I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
router is an attractive proposition.

--
Spike

On 20/10/2023 11:44, Spike wrote:
>
> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>
> There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
> to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
> white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
> is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
> disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>
> The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
> router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>
> Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
> another box hidden behind the display unit?
>
> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
> router is an attractive proposition.
>

I wonder if its powered via PoE?

(Power over ethernet)

This would require the router to have a PoE enabled ethernet socket
which is not something I have seen on routers.

The other possibility is that you have an optical coupler on the outside
box, and a white fibre patch cable has been used and there is two boxes
behind that heavy unit or a combo ONT & Router unit.

If the latter you will have two wall warts as the ONT requires power. If
you have one wall wart, then a combo ONT & router but again I've never
seen one of these.

Its not considered good practice to put an ONT on an outside wall for
various reasons.

SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 11:44, Spike wrote:
>>
>> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>>
>> There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
>> to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
>> white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
>> is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
>> disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>>
>> The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
>> router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>>
>> Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
>> another box hidden behind the display unit?
>>
>> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
>> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
>> router is an attractive proposition.
>>
>
> I wonder if its powered via PoE?
>
> (Power over ethernet)
>
> This would require the router to have a PoE enabled ethernet socket
> which is not something I have seen on routers.
>
> The other possibility is that you have an optical coupler on the outside
> box, and a white fibre patch cable has been used and there is two boxes
> behind that heavy unit or a combo ONT & Router unit.

Thanks for the reply.

I’m forming the opinion that the heavy unit is hiding a fair amount of
stuff, as there is also a DECT phone next to the router, meaning perhaps
some four wall warts in all; one for the ONT box and one for the second
box, plus those for the router and phone.

It looked like a neat and simple set up, but I suspect now that the heavy
unit is hiding a fair amount of stuff.

> Its not considered good practice to put an ONT on an outside wall for
> various reasons.

The external box is very much like this one:

<https://southchilternsbroadband.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/grey-openreach-box-sml.jpg?w=512>

--
Spike

On 20 Oct 2023 10:44:38 GMT, Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid>
wrote:

>
>A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>
>There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
>to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
>white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
>is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
>disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>
>The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
>router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>
>Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
>another box hidden behind the display unit?
>
>I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
>few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
>router is an attractive proposition.

The grey box on the outside is a passive junction box between the
tough external fibre that has to withstand being buried or slung on
poles, and the more flexible white fibre for interior use. The two
fibres are spliced together in the grey box leaving lots of slack for
repairs if needed. The white interior fibre terminates in an optical
port on the ONT (Optical Network Terminal) which is a small powered
device about the size of a light switch, and an ethernet cable goes
from there to the router or Superhub. The ONT will be somewhere inside
your house, from your description most likely behind the display unit
that you can't see behind.

The grey box on the outside is entirely passive and requiring no
power, and you will have two powered units inside, the ONT and the
Superhub, so somewhere nearby there must be two mains plugs. The power
supply for the ONT in my installation is of the type that is built
into the mains plug with a thin low voltage output cable, and is
white. The one for the Superhub is probably similar and black. It's
perfectly OK to plug both into the same wall socket using an adaptor,
and the total power consumption is likely to be about 10W or less.

Hope this helps you know what to look for.

Rod.

On 20/10/2023 11:44, Spike wrote:
>
> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>
> There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
> to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
> white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
> is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
> disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>
> The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
> router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>
> Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
> another box hidden behind the display unit?

There will be an ONT (Optical network terminator) behind the unit. The
white cable is the fibre, it terminates in the ONT which has an RJ45.

>
> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
> router is an attractive proposition.
>

Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.

Dave

Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid> wrote:
> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
> router is an attractive proposition.

Power over Ethernet allows powering one device from ethernet ports on
another, or having an injector where you add power to an existing ethernet
cable. You can also get PoE splitters that generate a (say) 12V output
which would power a router or ONT.

It's mostly enterprise devices that use it, so I doubt a consumer
router would have PoE enabled outputs. However what you could do is feed an
ethernet cable at the remote end, and split it out into 12V which powers
both router and ONT (assuming both are 12Vdc input). Something like:

PC ----PoEinj------ethernet---------PoEsplit---eth--router--eth--ONT-fibre
| | | |
12V PSU-+ +--12V--------+----12V---+

That way you'd need no power sockets near the ONT. Openreach won't install
it like this, but just provide them mains on an extension lead for the
install.

'Official' PoE is 48V, but you can get 'unofficial' injectors that run at
12V - you just have to ensure you never plug in anything that generates 48V!

Theo

On 20/10/2023 13:13, Theo wrote:

> 'Official' PoE is 48V, but you can get 'unofficial' injectors that run at
> 12V - you just have to ensure you never plug in anything that generates 48V!

PoE PSUs should not send 48 volts, unless the Rx device confirms it
requires 48 volts ?

Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid> wrote:

> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.

[…]

Many thanks to all who replied, the info was very interesting. So much so
that I got to work looking down the gaps at the top and sides of the heavy
unit by using a torch and mirror.

All hope of seeing a nice simple system disappeared when I spotted the ONT
box attached to the wall, next to a double wall socket, one outlet of which
had a two-way adapter, for a total of three wall warts and a rat’s nest of
wiring. To be fair, one of the warts powers the charger for the DECT phone,
which isn’t something I would be using in my own setup.

So it’s looking like some planning would be necessary for such an
installation here. One possibility would be to have the CSP and the ONT
back-to-back through the wall cavity, displaced about three feet to one
side of where the current phone line enters the property (and presumably
where the fibre would emerge from any ducting, OR having run blue string
through it about a year ago).

Plan B would be to put the CSP near to where the fibre emerges from the
ducting, and loop the extension from that to the outside point behind where
the ONT could be mounted internally near a wall socket.

Still got a year to go on the current FTTC system, so hoping something
smoother will emerge to make transfer of landline number to a VOIP
provider, with simultaneous loss of landline and a change of ISP somewhat
simpler.

Getting one’s ducks lined up for such a transition does have its issues.

Thanks once again to all for the info.

--
Spike

On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 11:44, Spike wrote:
>>
>> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>>
>> There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables running in
>> to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the other (a
>> white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room behind. It
>> is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
>> disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>>
>> The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT Super Hub
>> router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>>
>> Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
>> another box hidden behind the display unit?
>
> There will be an ONT (Optical network terminator) behind the unit. The
> white cable is the fibre, it terminates in the ONT which has an RJ45.
>
>>
>> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to have as
>> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
>> router is an attractive proposition.
>>
>
> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.

What's the reason? Is this the info?
<https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/oct-2020-update/1+0%20ONT%20factsheet.pdf>

That doesn't explain why "The casing is designed to be attached to a
back box, either vertically or horizontally". Is there a clearer
explanation somewhere?

Or is it this:
<https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/ONT%20Factsheet.pdf>

I doubt it'll affect me for a couple of years, and perhaps it'll change
in the meantime, but it would be interesting to know.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> What's the reason? Is this the info?
> <https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/oct-2020-update/1+0%20ONT%20factsheet.pdf>
>
> That doesn't explain why "The casing is designed to be attached to a
> back box, either vertically or horizontally". Is there a clearer
> explanation somewhere?

It looks like the 'casing' is the part where the external fibre is coiled up
and attaches to the internal fibre. I would imagine this example is used in
new build where the external fibre emerges in some utilities cupboard in the
middle of the property, rather than the retrofit case where the termination
is external.

> Or is it this:
> <https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/ONT%20Factsheet.pdf>

That looks similarly a new-build example, during the period ~2016 they were
supplying battery backup units for FTTP. They don't any more.

This page shows the external box and internal ONT that retrofits get:
https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba

Theo

Spike wrote:

[snip]

> Still got a year to go on the current FTTC system, so hoping something
> smoother will emerge to make transfer of landline number to a VOIP
> provider, with simultaneous loss of landline and a change of ISP somewhat
> simpler.
>
> Getting one’s ducks lined up for such a transition does have its issues.

If you intend to change ISP, then there is no disadvantage to ordering
FTTP well ahead of discontinuing the old FTTC.

You can also set up an account with a provider such as Voipfone, at no
cost - other than for any outgoing calls you make.

When you port the landline number to VoIP (which then incurs a cost)
your FTTC service will die, unless you ask your existing provider to
convert their service to SOGEA.

OFCOM forced a change at about Easter this year, so that a landline
phone number that is cancelled (perhaps by converting broadband to
SOGEA) is still available for porting to another provider for several weeks.

Alternatively, if you stay with the same ISP you ought to be able to
convert from FTTC to FTTP and port the landline number to VoIP all on
the same day - but this would need careful co-ordination from you.

--
Graham J

On 20/10/2023 17:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:
>> On 20/10/2023 11:44, Spike wrote:
>>>
>>> A neighbour of mine has just had full fibre installed by BT.
>>>
>>> There is a grey box on the outside of the wall with two cables
>>> running in
>>> to it at the bottom. One cable is clearly the incoming fibre, the
>>> other (a
>>> white cable) goes into a drilling through the wall into the room
>>> behind. It
>>> is neatly tacked to the skirting board and runs along two walls then
>>> disappears behind a heavy display unit.
>>>
>>> The white cable appears to terminate at an Ethernet port on a BT
>>> Super Hub
>>> router, but I can’t see behind the display unit.
>>>
>>> Is the external wall box powered from the Ethernet port, or is there
>>> another box hidden behind the display unit?
>>
>> There will be an ONT (Optical network terminator) behind the unit. The
>> white cable is the fibre, it terminates in the ONT which has an RJ45.
>>
>>>
>>> I ask because if and when I need to upgrade to fibre, I’d like to
>>> have as
>>> few wall warts in the setup as possible, and powering the ONT from the
>>> router is an attractive proposition.
>>>
>>
>> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.
>
> What's the reason? Is this the info?
> <https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/oct-2020-update/1+0%20ONT%20factsheet.pdf>
>
> That doesn't explain why "The casing is designed to be attached to a
> back box, either vertically or horizontally". Is there a clearer
> explanation somewhere?
>
> Or is it this:
> <https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks/ONT%20Factsheet.pdf>
>
> I doubt it'll affect me for a couple of years, and perhaps it'll change
> in the meantime, but it would be interesting to know.
>
Sorry Jeff,

You only need two sockets one for the router and one for the ONT.
I think you are over thinking this.

Technically OpenReach must provide the same service to all ISPs so they
require the ONT to have separate power as they only provide the ONT.

Its then up to the ISP to supply the router. Of course the router may be
supplied by BT but the install process must not favour them.

So OpenReach must not assume that the router can provide power for the ONT.

The fibre system appears to be designed to be maintained simply. So the
external junction box allows the feed to the premises to be changed
without entering the premises. Alternatively the routing in the house
can be changed without changing the drop. I suppose a Fibre equivalent
to the old Master Socket.

Then having separate ONT and router isn't necessary. Here in Spain the
Fibre goes straight to the router. The ONT is in the router. However the
Openreach set up allows easy change of ISP as only the router needs to
be swapped.

As for migration from FTTC + POTS to FTTP + Voip this should now be
simple. OFCOM have said landline numbers must remain migratable to VOIP
for 31 days, e.g.

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/PB_Porting_Numbers.php

so you can migrate Internet to FTTP and then migrate the phone number to
a different VOIP provider, or do as I did take out a new FTTP contract,
then migrate the landline to VOIP at which point the FTTC and POTS
service will cease.

Dave

On 20/10/2023 17:40, Theo wrote:

> This page shows the external box and internal ONT that retrofits get:
> https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba

Interesting..."If a ladder is required during the installation, our
engineer may need to drill temporary holes outside your property to work
safely". They'll need a ladder to get to the telephone pole wire which
is attached to the insulator just below the apex of gable end, but
there's a pergola covered by a very big ancient wisteria beneath it! I
assume they'll just replace the wire with fibre, but it won't be that
easy, and the current wire enters the house through the gable end wall
and runs around inside the loft. It'll have to be rerouted anyway, so
perhaps they'll just move the insulator if they can get to it.

--

Jeff

On 20/10/2023 18:28, David Wade wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 17:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:

>>> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.

>>
> Sorry Jeff,
>
> You only need two sockets one for the router and one for the ONT.
> I think you are over thinking this.

I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3 mains
sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't use one
socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon these
days? :-)

--

Jeff

On 20/10/2023 18:44, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 18:28, David Wade wrote:
>> On 20/10/2023 17:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:
>
>>>> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.
>
>>>
>> Sorry Jeff,
>>
>> You only need two sockets one for the router and one for the ONT.
>> I think you are over thinking this.
>
> I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
> sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3 mains
> sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't use one
> socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon these
> days? :-)
>

Two way adaptors were always frowned on. I don't think they mind a power
bar...

Dave

On 20/10/2023 19:39, David Wade wrote:
>
>
> Two way adaptors were always frowned on.

Just about any electricals retailer sells them. I think the problem
these days is that many devices come with SMPS built-in to 3-pin plugs,
and there's no agreement as to the shape of the plug, or even where the
lead exits - from the earth pin end or the L/N pins end. I sometimes
find I can't use an adapter because there's no way the plugs will allow
it. It's even worse with large "plugs" like powerline adapters.

--

Jeff

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:37:11 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On 20/10/2023 17:40, Theo wrote:
>
>> This page shows the external box and internal ONT that retrofits get:
>> https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba
>
>Interesting..."If a ladder is required during the installation, our
>engineer may need to drill temporary holes outside your property to work
>safely". They'll need a ladder to get to the telephone pole wire which
>is attached to the insulator just below the apex of gable end, but
>there's a pergola covered by a very big ancient wisteria beneath it! I
>assume they'll just replace the wire with fibre, but it won't be that
>easy, and the current wire enters the house through the gable end wall
>and runs around inside the loft. It'll have to be rerouted anyway, so
>perhaps they'll just move the insulator if they can get to it.

The engineer who fitted my external fibre box, near ground level,
fitted a substantial steel eyelet to the brickwork, also near ground
level to which he lashed the foot of his ladder to work on the
attachment for the fibre at roof level. (The fibre, like the previous
copper cable, comes across the road from a pole).

He assured me that the eyelet was only temporary so he would remove it
and fill in the hole before he left, but I said it was OK to leave it.
I realised it could be useful to anybody else who needed to work up a
ladder, and as it was just behind where my wheelie bins normally
stand, I thought it would be a better anchorage than the rainwater
downpipe to lash the bins to stop them going walkies when we have
stong winds.

Rod.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:44:13 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
>sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3 mains
>sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't use one
>socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon these
>days? :-)

I use a two way 13A block style adaptor for my router and ONT. It
sticks out a little more than a single plug so I suppose in some
instances there might be slightly more risk of it being knocked, but
mine's under a little table in the hall, so that won't happen, and I
can't think of any other reason to be concerned.

Those Powerline devices that send ethernet signals through the mains
wiring definitely do work better if plugged directly into a wall
socket than via adaptors, but you should only regard them as a last
resort anyway if nothing else works. If a mains socket is only
supplying power (and you're not sharing it with something hefty like a
heater) just do whatever you think looks neatest. Any routine warnings
about mains adaptors in user instructions are probably included
because some of the people reading them will be ignoramuses.

Rod.

On 20/10/2023 18:44, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 18:28, David Wade wrote:
>> On 20/10/2023 17:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:
>
>>>> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.
>
>>>
>> Sorry Jeff,
>>
>> You only need two sockets one for the router and one for the ONT.
>> I think you are over thinking this.
>
> I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
> sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3 mains
> sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't use one
> socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon these
> days? :-)
>
It's actually none of Openreach's bloody business how you choose to
power their kit. It needs 240 volts, and that's it. Provide it however
you like.

It's the dogmatic DNA of the GPO shining through yet again...

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 08:56:31 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:44:13 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
>>sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3 mains
>>sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't use one
>>socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon these
>>days?
>>
>>
> I use a two way 13A block style adaptor for my router and ONT. It sticks
> out a little more than a single plug so I suppose in some instances
> there might be slightly more risk of it being knocked, but mine's under
> a little table in the hall, so that won't happen, and I can't think of
> any other reason to be concerned.

I use a two way socket strip. The cable is plugged into one of the ways on
one of the UPS units, right beside it.

Graham J wrote:

> You can also set up an account with a provider such as Voipfone, at no cost

Only a 30 day free trial account though?

Then either £1.50/month with an 056 number that will cost anyone 25p/min
to call you (i.e. nobody will call you) or £5/month if you want a
"normal" phone number ...

On 20/10/2023 18:37, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 17:40, Theo wrote:
>
>> This page shows the external box and internal ONT that retrofits get:
>> https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba
>
> Interesting..."If a ladder is required during the installation, our
> engineer may need to drill temporary holes outside your property to work
> safely". They'll need a ladder to get to the telephone pole wire which
> is attached to the insulator just below the apex of gable end, but
> there's a pergola covered by a very big ancient wisteria beneath it! I
> assume they'll just replace the wire with fibre, but it won't be that
> easy, and the current wire enters the house through the gable end wall
> and runs around inside the loft. It'll have to be rerouted anyway, so
> perhaps they'll just move the insulator if they can get to it.
>

If the Openreach bod does it by the book, the external splice box has to
be a: Outside, and b: In a position where 'working at heights'
requirements are not applicable. In other words between 300 and 1800mm
above ground level.

That said, I've seen way them up on the front of houses, at soffit
level, and there are reports on t'internet of Openreach agreeing to
mount them inside lofts etc.

By the way, I think the ONT that Theo posted a picture of, can be
mounted on a single standard electrical backbox. That said though, the
fibre to it, has to be connected on the underside. It's a shame there's
not a version that allows the fibre to connect invisibly at the back.

On 21/10/2023 09:23, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 20/10/2023 18:44, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 20/10/2023 18:28, David Wade wrote:
>>> On 20/10/2023 17:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 20/10/2023 12:53, David Wade wrote:
>>
>>>>> Openreach require two 13 amp sockets and separate router supply.
>>
>>>>
>>> Sorry Jeff,
>>>
>>> You only need two sockets one for the router and one for the ONT.
>>> I think you are over thinking this.
>>
>> I was just assuming that your statement "Openreach require two 13 amp
>> sockets and separate router supply." meant there was a need for 3
>> mains sockets. If it's only two that's fine. Not sure why they can't
>> use one socket and a two-way adapter, though. Or is that frowned upon
>> these days? :-)
>>
> It's actually none of Openreach's bloody business how you choose to
> power their kit. It needs 240 volts, and that's it. Provide it however
> you like.
>
> It's the dogmatic DNA of the GPO shining through yet again...

But if its one of those old square 13amp adaptors the two wall warts may
foul each other and they will be unable to test it.

The ONT and its adaptor are OpenReach property, so I would say they are
free to tell you how to power it.

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:55:13 +0100, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
wrote:

>> It's actually none of Openreach's bloody business how you choose to
>> power their kit. It needs 240 volts, and that's it. Provide it however
>> you like.
>>
>> It's the dogmatic DNA of the GPO shining through yet again...
>
>But if its one of those old square 13amp adaptors the two wall warts may
>foul each other and they will be unable to test it.

You can test it with any kind of adaptor that works, and then tidy it
up later with whatever you can find that looks neat. I have a block
adaptor with 13A outlets on the top and on the front, so the ONT power
supply goes on top, where its back end overhangs a little, but the
cable is only low voltage and therefore thin and flexible so this
isn't a problem. The plug for the router is actually on an extension
cable to a high shelf where the router sits, so it's a standard 13A
plug with a less flexible mains cable, but as it's plugged to the
front of the adaptor its cable hangs straight down.

>The ONT and its adaptor are OpenReach property, so I would say they are
>free to tell you how to power it.

I would say they can only tell you that it should ideally be powered
continuously along with the router, and leave the details to you.

The only valid reason for powering these items continuously is that
they'll take a minute or two to boot up, make the connection and
stabilise when you switch them on. They don't consume much electricity
so it's most convenient just to leave them alone, but you're paying
for it so it should be your decision.

Rod.

On 22/10/2023 09:45, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:55:13 +0100, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> It's actually none of Openreach's bloody business how you choose to
>>> power their kit. It needs 240 volts, and that's it. Provide it however
>>> you like.
>>>
>>> It's the dogmatic DNA of the GPO shining through yet again...
>>
>> But if its one of those old square 13amp adaptors the two wall warts may
>> foul each other and they will be unable to test it.
>
> You can test it with any kind of adaptor that works, and then tidy it
> up later with whatever you can find that looks neat. I have a block
> adaptor with 13A outlets on the top and on the front, so the ONT power
> supply goes on top, where its back end overhangs a little, but the
> cable is only low voltage and therefore thin and flexible so this
> isn't a problem. The plug for the router is actually on an extension
> cable to a high shelf where the router sits, so it's a standard 13A
> plug with a less flexible mains cable, but as it's plugged to the
> front of the adaptor its cable hangs straight down.
>
>> The ONT and its adaptor are OpenReach property, so I would say they are
>> free to tell you how to power it.
>
> I would say they can only tell you that it should ideally be powered
> continuously along with the router, and leave the details to you.
>
> The only valid reason for powering these items continuously is that
> they'll take a minute or two to boot up, make the connection and
> stabilise when you switch them on. They don't consume much electricity
> so it's most convenient just to leave them alone, but you're paying
> for it so it should be your decision.

With FTTP there is no reason (from the service providers point of view)
to keep the router or ONT permanently powered up.

There is no DSL style 'line training'.

Of course yes, from a user point of view, better to keep them powered
24/7 because of the boot up time you mention. However, if you're going
on holiday for a fortnight, (and don't have an IoT devices such as
security cameras etc) then switch the ONT and router off if you wish.