Around here (Harrow, MW London) looks like Community Fibre are using
existing Openreach phone poles to connect their new FTTP customers.
There are "Community Fibre Ltd" labels attached to new cables running up
the pole.

Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
houses by BT when they eventually do their copper migration business?

Got to say, the tops of these poles are now looking a bit scruffy, with
many wires and strange boxes - some of these looking a bit like the open
head end block of a car engine viewing pistons.

Who actually owns Community Fibre, or is a major shareholder? Some
American conglomerate, or one in waiting?

--
Adrian C

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

> Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
> houses by BT

Only if the customer keeps a BT POTS line active, if they migrate their
number to Community fibre, presumably BT won't bother?

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

> Who actually owns Community Fibre, or is a major shareholder?

three years ago "Warburg Pincus and DTCP acquire controlling stake in
Community Fibre"

On 26/11/2023 21:06, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> Around here (Harrow, MW London) looks like Community Fibre are using
> existing Openreach phone poles to connect their new FTTP customers.
> There are "Community Fibre Ltd" labels attached to new cables running up
> the pole.
>
> Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
> houses by BT when they eventually do their copper migration business?

Whilst its possible I doubt many one will have two bits of fibre.

If they have only POTS then they will have BT Fibre.

If they have broadband then Community Fibre offers VOIP at £10/month so
I suspect they will want to migrate the phone service as well. £10/month
seems expensive, ZEN is £6.00, BT Digital Voice a lot more.

>
> Got to say, the tops of these poles are now looking a bit scruffy, with
> many wires and strange boxes - some of these looking a bit like the open
> head end block of a car engine viewing pistons.
>

After a while the strange blocks will be the only thing left. They are
the Fibre Splitters. So fed by one fibre from the exchange, which
probably wont be the same one the POTS lines go to, feeds the splitter,
then one fibre from one of the pistons to the house.

The end result should be much neater...

> Who actually owns Community Fibre, or is a major shareholder? Some
> American conglomerate, or one in waiting?
>

Don't know......

Dave

On 26/11/2023 22:24, David Wade wrote:
>
> If they have broadband then Community Fibre offers VOIP at £10/month so I
> suspect they will want to migrate the phone service as well. £10/month
> seems expensive, ZEN is £6.00, BT Digital Voice a lot more.

BT website seems to over 'Broadband and Phone' for £5 a month more then
'Broadband only'.

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/11/2023 21:06, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> > Around here (Harrow, MW London) looks like Community Fibre are using
> > existing Openreach phone poles to connect their new FTTP customers.
> > There are "Community Fibre Ltd" labels attached to new cables running up
> > the pole.
> >
> > Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
> > houses by BT when they eventually do their copper migration business?
>
> Whilst its possible I doubt many one will have two bits of fibre.

Assuming OR fibre up the street, I'd imagine they wouldn't fibre to
individual houses until the customer orders service. So if the customer
decides they want OR FTTP then they would come along and install the OR
fibre, if they previous had Community Fibre then that would be a second
connection.

As to what service the customer picks will depend on the offering on
Community Fibre and the offering over OR. There are noises from some of the
smaller altnets about allowing wholesale access to ISPs, in the way
CityFibre already does, which might mean your ISP can use the CommunityFibre
connection just as easily as an Openreach one, making little reason to
install a second OR fibre. If Community Fibre don't allow this and go for a
vertical model where they're the only ISP, then maybe it would make more
sense to get OR to install a second fibre which allows access to more ISPs.

At the end of the day, OR's copper plant is ageing - the question is whether
OR will invest to overbuild in areas that already have altnet fibre (and so
won't get government vouchers) or whether they'll decide it's not worth
their while to install. Or maybe they'll just let the copper languish and
the service deteriorate (this happened in the USA, where some even urban
places only have few-Mbps ADSL because AT&T didn't upgrade it or install
fibre).

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> > On 26/11/2023 21:06, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> > > Around here (Harrow, MW London) looks like Community Fibre are using
> > > existing Openreach phone poles to connect their new FTTP customers.
> > > There are "Community Fibre Ltd" labels attached to new cables running up
> > > the pole.
> > >
> > > Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
> > > houses by BT when they eventually do their copper migration business?
> >
> > Whilst its possible I doubt many one will have two bits of fibre.
>
> Assuming OR fibre up the street, I'd imagine they wouldn't fibre to
> individual houses until the customer orders service. So if the customer
> decides they want OR FTTP then they would come along and install the OR
> fibre, if they previous had Community Fibre then that would be a second
> connection.
>
We have fibre on the posts along our road but we don't get offered it
if ordering a new line, just FTTC from the cabinet at the end of the
road.

Oddly two or three properties at the end of the (no through) road *do*
get offered FTTP. They are only a few hundred yards away from us.

This is a rural, OpenReach only area.

--
Chris Green
·

On 26/11/2023 22:24, David Wade wrote:
>> Around here (Harrow, MW London) looks like Community Fibre are using
>> existing Openreach phone poles to connect their new FTTP customers.
>> There are "Community Fibre Ltd" labels attached to new cables running up
>> the pole.
>>
>> Does that mean that another bit of fibre will also be slung across to
>> houses by BT when they eventually do their copper migration business?
My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
for years to come!

Malcolm

On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
<devnull@loades.net> wrote:

>My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
>previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
>copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
>financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
>those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
>for years to come!

The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
it just depends on who you get on the day.

Rod.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 10:09:04 +0000
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
> <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>
> >My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper
> >wire previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the
> >obsolete OR copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and
> >remove it (no financial incentive to do so). I guess this second
> >unused cable and those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will
> >criss cross the road for years to come!
>
> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>
> Rod.

Just another tick for the service Zen gets from Openreach!

--
Davey.

>>
>> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
>> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
>> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>>
>> Rod.
>
> Just another tick for the service Zen gets from Openreach!
>

I was still using my copper drop cable for pstn when openreach installed
my Zen fibre(7/2022).

After my Zen voip was up and working I emailed openreach to have it
removed. They came and removed it 2 weeks later,no input form Zen as
the pstn account was in my name.

Best part is, it's free,openreach want to get rid of copper cables.

On 28/11/2023 10:51, grinch wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
>>> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
>>> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>>>
>>> Rod.
>>
>> Just another tick for the service Zen gets from Openreach!
>>
>
> I was still using my copper drop cable for pstn when openreach installed
> my Zen fibre(7/2022).
>
> After my Zen voip was up and working  I emailed openreach to have it
> removed.  They came and removed it 2 weeks later,no input form Zen as
> the pstn account was in my name.
>
> Best part is, it's free,openreach want to get rid of copper cables.

Same here. Very keen to remove. I guess unused drop wires are a
potential liability?

Dave

On 28/11/2023 10:09, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
> <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>
>> My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
>> previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
>> copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
>> financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
>> those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
>> for years to come!
>
> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>
> Rod.
>
More like who the installer works for rather than who he is.

Your installer was from OR so he was removing his own company's cable.
Mine was from Toob who don't use the OR fibre network and are not
allowed to touch OR infrastructure. They are not even allowed to use
the same anchor point on my eaves to bring the cable in.

This makes sense to me since other fibre providers would not want OR to
remove their cabling either.

I've no idea, as a non-customer of BT, how to request removal of their
cable. They wont have an account or anything against which to log the
job. I'm a nobody to BT.

Malcolm

Malcolm Loades <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
> On 28/11/2023 10:09, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
> > <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
> >
> >> My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
> >> previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
> >> copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
> >> financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
> >> those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
> >> for years to come!
> >
> > The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
> > happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
> > it just depends on who you get on the day.
> >
> More like who the installer works for rather than who he is.
>
> Your installer was from OR so he was removing his own company's cable.
> Mine was from Toob who don't use the OR fibre network and are not
> allowed to touch OR infrastructure. They are not even allowed to use
> the same anchor point on my eaves to bring the cable in.
>
> This makes sense to me since other fibre providers would not want OR to
> remove their cabling either.

There was a certain amount of 'unofficial' conversion of BT phone sockets to
Virgin phone sockets back in the day, even if the master sockets were
supposed to be separate. But, as you say, they aren't supposed to touch
plant owned by somebody else.

> I've no idea, as a non-customer of BT, how to request removal of their
> cable. They wont have an account or anything against which to log the
> job. I'm a nobody to BT.

Have it 'come down' in high winds, and then report it to OR for causing a
hazard across the pavement...

(had to do that when next door's cable came down on my garden, first time
they didn't want to know, but second time they did remove it)

Theo

On 28/11/2023 14:23, Theo wrote:
> Malcolm Loades <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>> On 28/11/2023 10:09, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
>>> <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
>>>> previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
>>>> copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
>>>> financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
>>>> those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
>>>> for years to come!
>>>
>>> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
>>> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
>>> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>>>
>> More like who the installer works for rather than who he is.
>>
>> Your installer was from OR so he was removing his own company's cable.
>> Mine was from Toob who don't use the OR fibre network and are not
>> allowed to touch OR infrastructure. They are not even allowed to use
>> the same anchor point on my eaves to bring the cable in.
>>
>> This makes sense to me since other fibre providers would not want OR to
>> remove their cabling either.
>
> There was a certain amount of 'unofficial' conversion of BT phone sockets to
> Virgin phone sockets back in the day, even if the master sockets were
> supposed to be separate. But, as you say, they aren't supposed to touch
> plant owned by somebody else.
>
>> I've no idea, as a non-customer of BT, how to request removal of their
>> cable. They wont have an account or anything against which to log the
>> job. I'm a nobody to BT.
>

I wasn't when I asked. I went here :-

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/altering-our-network/altering-our-network-enquiry

... and despite it saying all changes are chargable they removed it free
of charge...

Dave

> Have it 'come down' in high winds, and then report it to OR for causing a
> hazard across the pavement...
>
> (had to do that when next door's cable came down on my garden, first time
> they didn't want to know, but second time they did remove it)
>
> Theo

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 10:18:10 +0000, Davey wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 10:09:04 +0000 Roderick Stewart
> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades <devnull@loades.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper
>> >wire previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the
>> >obsolete OR copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove
>> >it (no financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused
>> >cable and those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss
>> >cross the road for years to come!
>>
>> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
>> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
>> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>>
>> Rod.
>
> Just another tick for the service Zen gets from Openreach!

I had a two day overlap between FTTC and FTTP, so the drop wire is till
there. I wanted to make sure it was OK first.

On 28/11/2023 19:16, David Wade wrote:
> On 28/11/2023 14:23, Theo wrote:
>> Malcolm Loades <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2023 10:09, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 13:25:59 +0000, Malcolm Loades
>>>> <devnull@loades.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My Toob FTTP is via a cable run from the same OR pole as the cooper wire
>>>>> previously carrying ADSL. Toob aren't allowed to remove the obsolete OR
>>>>> copper cable and I very much doubt OR will come and remove it (no
>>>>> financial incentive to do so). I guess this second unused cable and
>>>>> those of neighbours' who've switched to fibre will criss cross the road
>>>>> for years to come!
>>>>
>>>> The Openreach tech who installed my fibre on behalf of Zen was quite
>>>> happy to remove the copper cable between the pole and my house. Maybe
>>>> it just depends on who you get on the day.
>>>>
>>> More like who the installer works for rather than who he is.
>>>
>>> Your installer was from OR so he was removing his own company's cable.
>>> Mine was from Toob who don't use the OR fibre network and are not
>>> allowed to touch OR infrastructure. They are not even allowed to use
>>> the same anchor point on my eaves to bring the cable in.
>>>
>>> This makes sense to me since other fibre providers would not want OR to
>>> remove their cabling either.
>>
>> There was a certain amount of 'unofficial' conversion of BT phone sockets to
>> Virgin phone sockets back in the day, even if the master sockets were
>> supposed to be separate. But, as you say, they aren't supposed to touch
>> plant owned by somebody else.
>>
>>> I've no idea, as a non-customer of BT, how to request removal of their
>>> cable. They wont have an account or anything against which to log the
>>> job. I'm a nobody to BT.
>>
>
> I wasn't when I asked. I went here :-
>
> https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/altering-our-network/altering-our-network-enquiry
>
> .. and despite it saying all changes are chargable they removed it free
> of charge...
>

Brilliant! Thank you.

Arranged for a week today, no mention of a charge.

Malcolm