My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
part of the move to SOGEA. This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
for small businesses. My neighbours used to run a business which may
explain why BT pushed this solution at them.

A BT Smart Hub 2 provides the internet connection.

The VoIP product is marked Yealink. The label on the box says:
Model: = W70B
Model: = W73H
while the box itself is printed with W73P. It comprises a base unit
which connects via Ethernet to the router, and a handset.

It does all work, without any need for user configuration.

BUT the handset is too small. Mainly the buttons are too small and too
close together, and the screen isn't very big either. Bear in mind that
these are elderly folk with reduced manual dexterity and failing eyesight.

They would like something bigger. They've previously had a Binatone
desk phone plus a DECT handset - the Concept Combo 3525. The Binatone
handset - although not much bigger than the Yealink - is much easier to
use.

I've read that DECT phones are all supposed to be inter-operable so it
should be possible to pair the Binatone handset with the Yealink
base-station - but I've been unable to do so. The Binatone manual has
no instructions.

Yealink make other handsets, but they all seem to be the same size. Has
anybody here any experience of bigger DECT handsets which will pair with
the Yealink base-station?

An alternative would be to get a separate VoIP desk phone. But I've no
way to find out what parameters to put into it, and I doubt that BT
would understand the question even if we were to get through to the
right department. (My experience is with Voiphone, and they provide all
the details necessary to configure a phone for their service.)

Any help gratefully received. Thanks.

--
Graham J

On Thu 14/12/2023 20:25, Graham J wrote:
> My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
> part of the move to SOGEA.  This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
> for small businesses.  My neighbours used to run a business which may
> explain why BT pushed this solution at them.
>
> A BT Smart Hub 2 provides the internet connection.
>
> The VoIP product is marked Yealink.  The label on the box says:
> Model:    = W70B
> Model:    = W73H
> while the box itself is printed with W73P.  It comprises a base unit
> which connects via Ethernet to the router, and a handset.
>
> It does all work, without any need for user configuration.
>
> BUT the handset is too small.  Mainly the buttons are too small and too
> close together, and the screen isn't very big either.  Bear in mind that
> these are elderly folk with reduced manual dexterity and failing eyesight.
>
> They would like something bigger.  They've previously had a Binatone
> desk phone plus a DECT handset - the Concept Combo 3525.  The Binatone
> handset - although not much bigger than the Yealink - is much easier to
> use.
>
> I've read that DECT phones are all supposed to be inter-operable so it
> should be possible to pair the Binatone handset with the Yealink
> base-station - but I've been unable to do so.  The Binatone manual has
> no instructions.
>
> Yealink make other handsets, but they all seem to be the same size.  Has
> anybody here any experience of bigger DECT handsets which will pair with
> the Yealink base-station?
>
> An alternative would be to get a separate VoIP desk phone.  But I've no
> way to find out what parameters to put into it, and I doubt that BT
> would understand the question even if we were to get through to the
> right department.  (My experience is with Voiphone, and they provide all
> the details necessary to configure a phone for their service.)
>
> Any help gratefully received.  Thanks.
>
>
>
Google is your friend.

Google how to register additional handset on yealink y73p

Google how to register additional handset on Binatone Concept Combo 3525

You will get specific instructions for the Yealink
You will find the manual for the Binatone.

When searching the important word is REGISTER.

Dig into the menus to find the important bit. The default pin should be 0000

On 14/12/2023 20:25, Graham J wrote:
> My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
> part of the move to SOGEA.  This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
> for small businesses.  My neighbours used to run a business which may
> explain why BT pushed this solution at them.
>
> A BT Smart Hub 2 provides the internet connection.
>
> The VoIP product is marked Yealink.  The label on the box says:
> Model:    = W70B
> Model:    = W73H
> while the box itself is printed with W73P.  It comprises a base unit
> which connects via Ethernet to the router, and a handset.
>
> It does all work, without any need for user configuration.
>
> BUT the handset is too small.  Mainly the buttons are too small and too
> close together, and the screen isn't very big either.  Bear in mind that
> these are elderly folk with reduced manual dexterity and failing eyesight.
>
> They would like something bigger.  They've previously had a Binatone
> desk phone plus a DECT handset - the Concept Combo 3525.  The Binatone
> handset - although not much bigger than the Yealink - is much easier to
> use.
>
> I've read that DECT phones are all supposed to be inter-operable so it
> should be possible to pair the Binatone handset with the Yealink
> base-station - but I've been unable to do so.  The Binatone manual has
> no instructions.
>
> Yealink make other handsets, but they all seem to be the same size.  Has
> anybody here any experience of bigger DECT handsets which will pair with
> the Yealink base-station?
>
> An alternative would be to get a separate VoIP desk phone.  But I've no
> way to find out what parameters to put into it, and I doubt that BT
> would understand the question even if we were to get through to the
> right department.  (My experience is with Voiphone, and they provide all
> the details necessary to configure a phone for their service.)
>
> Any help gratefully received.  Thanks.
>
>
>
BT are supposed to check. I assume they said "all ok". I suggest they
ring BT and complain.

Dave

On 14/12/2023 20:25, Graham J wrote:
> My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
> part of the move to SOGEA.  This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
> for small businesses.  My neighbours used to run a business which may
> explain why BT pushed this solution at them.
>
> A BT Smart Hub 2 provides the internet connection.
>
> The VoIP product is marked Yealink.  The label on the box says:
> Model:    = W70B
> Model:    = W73H
> while the box itself is printed with W73P.  It comprises a base unit
> which connects via Ethernet to the router, and a handset.
>
> It does all work, without any need for user configuration.
>
> BUT the handset is too small.  Mainly the buttons are too small and too
> close together, and the screen isn't very big either.  Bear in mind that
> these are elderly folk with reduced manual dexterity and failing eyesight.
>
> They would like something bigger.  They've previously had a Binatone
> desk phone plus a DECT handset - the Concept Combo 3525.  The Binatone
> handset - although not much bigger than the Yealink - is much easier to
> use.
>
> I've read that DECT phones are all supposed to be inter-operable so it
> should be possible to pair the Binatone handset with the Yealink
> base-station - but I've been unable to do so.  The Binatone manual has
> no instructions.
>
> Yealink make other handsets, but they all seem to be the same size.  Has
> anybody here any experience of bigger DECT handsets which will pair with
> the Yealink base-station?
>
> An alternative would be to get a separate VoIP desk phone.  But I've no
> way to find out what parameters to put into it, and I doubt that BT
> would understand the question even if we were to get through to the
> right department.  (My experience is with Voiphone, and they provide all
> the details necessary to configure a phone for their service.)
>
> Any help gratefully received.  Thanks.
>
>
>
Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket

I think there may be an internal DECT base too. If there's a pairing button
on the hub, can you pair a DECT handset with it?

(I'm not sure wy they've provided a separate Yealink rather than just a
regular DECT handset)

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> > Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>
> I think there may be an internal DECT base too. If there's a pairing button
> on the hub, can you pair a DECT handset with it?
>
> (I'm not sure wy they've provided a separate Yealink rather than just a
> regular DECT handset)

It occurs to me it's possible the Yealink is just being used as a charging
base for the phone and the handset is paired with the Smart Hub directly.
Maybe try pairing their old Binatone with the hub?

Theo

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>>
>>
> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket

Yes. It is covered with a sticky label saying "Do not use." I suspect
this is because BT provide the VoIP service via "Cloud Voice Express".

--
Graham J

Theo wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>>> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>>
>> I think there may be an internal DECT base too. If there's a pairing button
>> on the hub, can you pair a DECT handset with it?
>>
>> (I'm not sure wy they've provided a separate Yealink rather than just a
>> regular DECT handset)
>
> It occurs to me it's possible the Yealink is just being used as a charging
> base for the phone and the handset is paired with the Smart Hub directly.
> Maybe try pairing their old Binatone with the hub?

Unlikely, given the VoIP service is from "BT Cloud Voice Express". But
when I next visit I will check.

--
Graham J

On 14/12/2023 22:50, Theo wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>
> I think there may be an internal DECT base too. If there's a pairing button
> on the hub, can you pair a DECT handset with it?

The 'Pair' button on the side of the hub mentions 'WPS' but should also
allow DECT pairing. The Hub Manager web page also has 'Start Registration'
under 'Phone' (for BT Digital voice, don't know about Cloud Express).

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >>
> >>
> > Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>
> Yes. It is covered with a sticky label saying "Do not use." I suspect
> this is because BT provide the VoIP service via "Cloud Voice Express".

OK, so it sounds like they aren't using the ATA facility in the hub, but
doing it in a separate VOIP device. Seems you have two options:

1. Pair the Binatone DECT handset with the Yealink base:
https://business.bt.com/help/guides/fibre-and-digital-line-bundle/set-up-cloud-voice-express-cordless-phone/
see 'set up additional handsets'

2. Ask BT for their own Cisco 191/192 ATA: "How to use analogue devices
with Cloud Voice Express" and then plug in an analogue phone of their
choosing
https://business.bt.com/help/guides/fibre-and-digital-line-bundle/using-your-cloud-voice-express-phone-service/
https://business.bt.com/help/guides/getting-started-with-your-bt-business-products/set-up-cloud-voice-express-analogue-phone-adaptor/

I am assuming BT won't tell you the SIP credentials to use your own ATA,
that would be too easy.

Theo

On Thursday 14 December 2023 at 22:35:31 UTC, David Wade wrote:
> On 14/12/2023 20:25, Graham J wrote:
> > My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
> > part of the move to SOGEA. This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
> > for small businesses. My neighbours used to run a business which may
> > explain why BT pushed this solution at them.
>
SNIP
> >
> > An alternative would be to get a separate VoIP desk phone. But I've no
> > way to find out what parameters to put into it, and I doubt that BT
> > would understand the question even if we were to get through to the
> > right department. (My experience is with Voiphone, and they provide all
> > the details necessary to configure a phone for their service.)
> >
> > Any help gratefully received. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket

The residential ones do, the business ones do NOT.

When originally provisioned the Yealink kit behaves as in their manuals (up to 8 extensions, up to eight connections) and one can set up a Voipfone account, but once BT download their firmware it is slugged, so you have to pay BT for more handsets, only their connection through the DECT base and can't log in to manage it.

OTOH nothing to stop you connecting your own Yealink or Gigaset DECT system..

Sad really - typical BT dog in a manger attitude. BT Cloud Voice Express is faulty too - if the handset and the mobile app' are both online, neither answers and calls are transferred immediately.

notya...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

>> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>
> The residential ones do, the business ones do NOT.
>
> When originally provisioned the Yealink kit behaves as in their manuals (up to 8 extensions, up to eight connections) and one can set up a Voipfone account, but once BT download their firmware it is slugged, so you have to pay BT for more handsets, only their connection through the DECT base and can't log in to manage it.
>
> OTOH nothing to stop you connecting your own Yealink or Gigaset DECT system.
>
> Sad really - typical BT dog in a manger attitude. BT Cloud Voice Express is faulty too - if the handset and the mobile app' are both online, neither answers and calls are transferred immediately.
>

Thanks for the useful and relevant information.

I noticed I can't login to their Yealink base-station: none of the
published passwords work. Presumably BT have put in their own.

Presumably also you can't buy your own additional Yealink handsets -
they won't pair with the base-station unless you pay BT.

If you want to use your own VoIP solution you would need the necessary
SIP credentials for the BT Cloud Voice Express - are these available?
Who in BT could provide them?

Moral: don't buy anything from BT.

--
Graham J

On 15/12/2023 13:15, Graham J wrote:
> notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> Doesn't the SmartHub 2 have a normal phone socket
>>
>> The residential ones do, the business ones do NOT.
>>
>> When originally provisioned the Yealink kit behaves as in their
>> manuals (up to 8 extensions, up to eight connections) and one can set
>> up a Voipfone account, but once BT download their firmware it is
>> slugged, so you have to pay BT for more handsets, only their
>> connection through the DECT base and can't log in to manage it.
>>
>> OTOH nothing to stop you connecting your own Yealink or Gigaset DECT
>> system.
>>
>> Sad really - typical BT dog in a manger attitude.  BT Cloud Voice
>> Express is faulty too - if the handset and the mobile app' are both
>> online, neither answers and calls are transferred immediately.
>>
>
> Thanks for the useful and relevant information.
>
> I noticed I can't login to their Yealink base-station: none of the
> published passwords work.  Presumably BT have put in their own.
>
> Presumably also you can't buy your own additional Yealink handsets -
> they won't pair with the base-station unless you pay BT.
>
> If you want to use your own VoIP solution you would need the necessary
> SIP credentials for the BT Cloud Voice Express - are these available?
> Who in BT could provide them?
>
> Moral: don't buy anything from BT.
>

I assume they were conned into starting a new contract with BT. Might be
worth trying to see if they can escape and migrate to a proper VOIP
provider such as voipfone.co.uk or A&A. They should be able to migrate
the numbers. Both are a lot cheaper than BT.

I believe there are ways to jailbreak the Yealink e.g.

https://phm.pw/hacking-a-yealink-device-autoprovisioned-for-bt-voice/

Dave

David Wade wrote:

[snip]
>>
>> Moral: don't buy anything from BT.
>>
>
> I assume they were conned into starting a new contract with BT. Might be
> worth trying to see if they can escape and migrate to a proper VOIP
> provider such as voipfone.co.uk or A&A. They should be able to migrate
> the numbers. Both are a lot cheaper than BT.
>
> I believe there are ways to jailbreak the Yealink e.g.
>
> https://phm.pw/hacking-a-yealink-device-autoprovisioned-for-bt-voice/
Interesting, thanks.

Yes, they were conned! I think they're taking it up with BT's MD.

Graham J

Woody wrote:

[snip]

> Google how to register additional handset on yealink y73p
Setup guide that came with it shows that - press & hold "pair" button
until light flashes

> Google how to register additional handset on Binatone Concept Combo 3525
Google finds exactly the same manual as is in the box with the Binatone
1. Press <MENU/OK> and <UP/DOWN> to select REGISTRATION.
2. Press <MENU/OK> to display PIN?----.
3. Enter the 4-digit system PIN (default is 0000).
4. Press <MENU/OK> to confirm, and the display will show
PLEASE WAIT flashing.
Then shows HANDSET 2

This appears to work but it doesn't communicate with the Yealink
base-station.

Yealink says:

"*DECT technology:
Yealink DECT technology focuses on high quality Audio VoIP (wideband),
as well as low bit - rate data applications. But we are not compatible
with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.)"

Further, the post from notyalckram@gmail.com suggests that BT install
slugged firmware and further handsets can only be supplied and paired by BT.

--
Graham J

On 15/12/2023 14:07, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>>
>>> Moral: don't buy anything from BT.
>>>
>>
>> I assume they were conned into starting a new contract with BT. Might
>> be worth trying to see if they can escape and migrate to a proper VOIP
>> provider such as voipfone.co.uk or A&A. They should be able to migrate
>> the numbers. Both are a lot cheaper than BT.
>>
>> I believe there are ways to jailbreak the Yealink e.g.
>>
>> https://phm.pw/hacking-a-yealink-device-autoprovisioned-for-bt-voice/
> Interesting, thanks.
>
> Yes, they were conned!  I think they're taking it up with BT's MD.
>

I think then complaining to OFCOM and perhaps Watchdog and Citizens
advice.

>
> Graham J

Dave

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
> "*DECT technology:
> Yealink DECT technology focuses on high quality Audio VoIP (wideband),
> as well as low bit - rate data applications. But we are not compatible
> with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.)"
>
That rather means that they're not DECT! There's a minimum level of
compatibility required to be DECT.

--
Chris Green
·

On 15/12/2023 17:23, Chris Green wrote:
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> "*DECT technology:
>> Yealink DECT technology focuses on high quality Audio VoIP (wideband),
>> as well as low bit - rate data applications. But we are not compatible
>> with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.)"
>>
> That rather means that they're not DECT! There's a minimum level of
> compatibility required to be DECT.
>

No, to interwork they need to be GAP compatible....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_access_profile

Dave

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 15/12/2023 17:23, Chris Green wrote:
> > Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> "*DECT technology:
> >> Yealink DECT technology focuses on high quality Audio VoIP (wideband),
> >> as well as low bit - rate data applications. But we are not compatible
> >> with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.)"
> >>
> > That rather means that they're not DECT! There's a minimum level of
> > compatibility required to be DECT.
> >
>
> No, to interwork they need to be GAP compatible....
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_access_profile
>
Well, OK, but if they can't be interfaced then surely they are not
'GAP compatible'.

--
Chris Green
·

On 15/12/2023 19:13, Chris Green wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> On 15/12/2023 17:23, Chris Green wrote:
>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "*DECT technology:
>>>> Yealink DECT technology focuses on high quality Audio VoIP (wideband),
>>>> as well as low bit - rate data applications. But we are not compatible
>>>> with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.)"
>>>>
>>> That rather means that they're not DECT! There's a minimum level of
>>> compatibility required to be DECT.
>>>
>>
>> No, to interwork they need to be GAP compatible....
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_access_profile
>>
> Well, OK, but if they can't be interfaced then surely they are not
> 'GAP compatible'.
>
yes, but DECT does not equate to GAP compatible. So systems can be DECT
but not able to interwork

Dave

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 20:25:38 +0000, Graham J wrote:
> My elderly neighbours have been "upgraded" to BT Cloud Voice Express as
> part of the move to SOGEA. This is a BT VoIP product - I think intended
> for small businesses. My neighbours used to run a business which may
> explain why BT pushed this solution at them.

BT Cloud Voice is a branded version of RingCentral - and as you say, it's
aimed at businesses. Have they provided a login to the web interface? If
so, you can can get the SIP credentials to add a VoIP phone manually - or
if nothing else, you can attach an ATA and use an analogue phone.

Mike

Mike Humphrey wrote:

[snip]
>
> BT Cloud Voice is a branded version of RingCentral - and as you say, it's
> aimed at businesses. Have they provided a login to the web interface? If
> so, you can can get the SIP credentials to add a VoIP phone manually - or
> if nothing else, you can attach an ATA and use an analogue phone.

Thanks. We've used the web interface to manage redirects, so it will be
worth investigating whether the SIP credentials are available.

--
Graham J

On 16/12/2023 12:02, Graham J wrote:
>
> Mike Humphrey wrote:
>>
>> BT Cloud Voice is a branded version of RingCentral - and as you say, it's
>> aimed at businesses. Have they provided a login to the web interface? If
>> so, you can can get the SIP credentials to add a VoIP phone manually - or
>> if nothing else, you can attach an ATA and use an analogue phone.
>
> Thanks.  We've used the web interface to manage redirects, so it will be
> worth investigating whether the SIP credentials are available.

Please report back what you find.

My experience with a legacy but still occasional customer is that BT
monetise any additions to the basic system as provided. So, for one
example I investigated specifically for them, but it was some years ago
now and I may not have remembered the details correctly and/or things
may have changed, if you wanted to add an ATA device for an alarm, it
had to be one that they approved and perhaps also supplied (ISTR there
were just two, both quite expensive to purchase), and it was an extra so
much per month on the bill, again quite expensive and not very much
cheaper than the line rental it would have replaced.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive wrote:
> On 16/12/2023 12:02, Graham J wrote:
>>
>> Mike Humphrey wrote:
>>>
>>> BT Cloud Voice is a branded version of RingCentral - and as you say,
>>> it's
>>> aimed at businesses. Have they provided a login to the web interface? If
>>> so, you can can get the SIP credentials to add a VoIP phone manually
>>> - or
>>> if nothing else, you can attach an ATA and use an analogue phone.
>>
>> Thanks.  We've used the web interface to manage redirects, so it will
>> be worth investigating whether the SIP credentials are available.
>
> Please report back what you find.
>
> My experience with a legacy but still occasional customer is that BT
> monetise any additions to the basic system as provided.  So, for one
> example I investigated specifically for them, but it was some years ago
> now and I may not have remembered the details correctly and/or things
> may have changed, if you wanted to add an ATA device for an alarm, it
> had to be one that they approved and perhaps also supplied (ISTR there
> were just two, both quite expensive to purchase), and it was an extra so
> much per month on the bill, again quite expensive and not very much
> cheaper than the line rental it would have replaced.

OK may be a few days.

Certainly BT seems to monetise everything!

--
Graham J

On 16 Dec 2023 12:49, Graham J wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>> On 16/12/2023 12:02, Graham J wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike Humphrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> BT Cloud Voice is a branded version of RingCentral - and as you say,
>>>> it's
>>>> aimed at businesses. Have they provided a login to the web interface? If
>>>> so, you can can get the SIP credentials to add a VoIP phone manually
>>>> - or
>>>> if nothing else, you can attach an ATA and use an analogue phone.
>>>
>>> Thanks.  We've used the web interface to manage redirects, so it will
>>> be worth investigating whether the SIP credentials are available.
>>
>> Please report back what you find.
>>
>> My experience with a legacy but still occasional customer is that BT
>> monetise any additions to the basic system as provided.  So, for one
>> example I investigated specifically for them, but it was some years ago
>> now and I may not have remembered the details correctly and/or things
>> may have changed, if you wanted to add an ATA device for an alarm, it
>> had to be one that they approved and perhaps also supplied (ISTR there
>> were just two, both quite expensive to purchase), and it was an extra so
>> much per month on the bill, again quite expensive and not very much
>> cheaper than the line rental it would have replaced.
>
> OK may be a few days.
>
> Certainly BT seems to monetise everything!

It's what the people wanted. They voted for the government that
privatised BT and provided the "crown guarantee". They also voted for
the government that changed the pension rules aiding the creation of
the black hole. And so, the only way to save taxpayers from a huge debt
to be paid off is for BT to make as much money as it possibly can.