We have had a BT Landline for 40+ years now but like many, we mostly use
our mobiles and in our case, have broadband via cable (never had ADSL
etc, it was DU before that). We also have FTTP rolling out round here so
I don't see a reason to keep the copper LL.

In fact, I don't think our phone line actually works (people have said
it just gives them engaged tone and I CBA to fault-find it) and it has
to be a couple of years since we tried to make a call from it.

But before I ask BT to remove it, is there anything I can / should do?
Like, what of those people who might only have our landline number,
could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
Sipgate numbers)? Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
is that likely to be expensive?

Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have a
LL now?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
> Sipgate numbers)?

Yes, probably cost you a couple of quid/month to keep the number.

> Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
> is that likely to be expensive?

Depends, if you leave the line with BT and then forward it you'll pay
their mobile rate/minute, unless you have a call bundle that includes
mobiles (sounds unlikely from your description).

> Would BT give us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable,

Give no. Provide yes, at the same price you currently pay, they might
chuck in a phone.

[don't know why I'm replying, you probably won't see this]

T i m wrote:
> We have had a BT Landline for 40+ years now but like many, we mostly use
> our mobiles and in our case, have broadband via cable (never had ADSL
> etc, it was DU before that). We also have FTTP rolling out round here so
> I don't see a reason to keep the copper LL.
>
> In fact, I don't think our phone line actually works (people have said
> it just gives them engaged tone and I CBA to fault-find it) and it has
> to be a couple of years since we tried to make a call from it.
>
> But before I ask BT to remove it, is there anything I can / should do?
> Like, what of those people who might only have our landline number,
> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
> Sipgate numbers)? Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
> is that likely to be expensive?
>
> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have a
> LL now?

If you port the landline number to a VoIP service that will
automatically cancel the landline (and any associated FTTC or ADSL service).

If you cancel the landline first, it is supposed to be possible to port
its number to a VoIP service in the succeeding 4 weeks. This follows an
Ofcom ruling sometime about last Easter. But I would not trust the process!

If you keep the landline you can forward it to your mobile. You
continue to pay the line rental, and you will pay the call cost of the
forwarding, so the fee for the call from our location to the mobile.
Could be very expensive unless you have a calls package that discounts it.

If you port the landline number to a VoIP service, you pay a one-off fee
(about £24) then a monthly charge for the service (I pay £3.60 to
Voipfone for this). If you forward incoming calls to your mobile it
costs typically 7p or 20p per minute depending on the destination mobile
provider (figures from Voipfone).

A lot depends on the quality of your mobile service. In my case the
mobile only works on high ground outside the house, so it's virtually
useless except when away from home. My (quite old) handset does not
support calling via the internet, and I've no enthusiasm for replacing
it - it does everything else I want.

--
Graham J

T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> We have had a BT Landline for 40+ years now but like many, we mostly use
> our mobiles and in our case, have broadband via cable (never had ADSL
> etc, it was DU before that). We also have FTTP rolling out round here so
> I don't see a reason to keep the copper LL.
>
> In fact, I don't think our phone line actually works (people have said
> it just gives them engaged tone and I CBA to fault-find it) and it has
> to be a couple of years since we tried to make a call from it.
>
> But before I ask BT to remove it, is there anything I can / should do?
> Like, what of those people who might only have our landline number,
> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
> Sipgate numbers)? Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
> is that likely to be expensive?
>
> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have a
> LL now?
>
> Cheers, T i m
>

Consider Andrews and Arnold. You can port your number to them. There is a
£15 one off fee. Monthly cost thereafter is £1.44

If all you want to do is mop up the odd inbound call set up the line on
their control panel to go straight to voicemail. Voicemail can be
configured to email you the recording as a WAV attachment. You can add a
voip handset if you want to do more with the line.

Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own view is
that free is never a long term solution. £1.44/month seems not that
painful.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Consider Andrews and Arnold. You can port your number to them. There is a
> £15 one off fee. Monthly cost thereafter is £1.44
>
> If all you want to do is mop up the odd inbound call set up the line on
> their control panel to go straight to voicemail. Voicemail can be
> configured to email you the recording as a WAV attachment. You can add a
> voip handset if you want to do more with the line.
>
> Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
> customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
> existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own view is
> that free is never a long term solution. £1.44/month seems not that
> painful.

+1 to that. Also to note you can install a SIP app on your mobile(s) and
have the VOIP number ring the mobiles when there's an incoming call. First
to pick up gets the call. If nobody picks up it goes to voicemail and the
recording can be emailed (A&A send you an MP3 not a WAV, and they're usually
a few hundred KB so not massive).

Theo

On 17/02/2024 11:32, T i m wrote:
> We have had a BT Landline for 40+ years now but like many, we mostly use
> our mobiles and in our case, have broadband via cable (never had ADSL
> etc, it was DU before that). We also have FTTP rolling out round here so
> I don't see a reason to keep the copper LL.
> > In fact, I don't think our phone line actually works (people have said
> it just gives them engaged tone and I CBA to fault-find it) and it has
> to be a couple of years since we tried to make a call from it.
>
> But before I ask BT to remove it, is there anything I can / should do?
> Like, what of those people who might only have our landline number,
> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
> Sipgate numbers)? Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
> is that likely to be expensive?

If it hasn't worked for two years why bother? If you want to keep it
both A&A and voipfone.co.uk have cheap plans. e.g.

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/plans/comparison

>
> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have a
> LL now?
>

At some point BT will swap you from copper to their proprietary and
expensive VOIP solution. Even if you have to buy an ATA (voip to
analogue adaptor) you will save more than the cost of it within a few
months. Voipfone have an app for your mobile so you may just wish to use
that...

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/softphone.php

> Cheers, T i m

Dave

On 17/02/2024 12:10, Tweed wrote:

>
> Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
> customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
> existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own view is
> that free is never a long term solution.

My experience of Sipgate's basic service is it's rubbish. Lousy quality
calls, and a delay of 30 seconds actually cancelling a call after you've
hung up.

It's fine for my application, to catch occasional calls from <cough> our
still surviving eldery relations to phone us on, because they only feel
comfortable dialing us on an 01xx number !

The VoIP phone I bought will probably end up on ebay before the end of
this decade.

On Sat 17/02/2024 11:32, T i m wrote:
> We have had a BT Landline for 40+ years now but like many, we mostly use
> our mobiles and in our case, have broadband via cable (never had ADSL
> etc, it was DU before that). We also have FTTP rolling out round here so
> I don't see a reason to keep the copper LL.
>
> In fact, I don't think our phone line actually works (people have said
> it just gives them engaged tone and I CBA to fault-find it) and it has
> to be a couple of years since we tried to make a call from it.
>
> But before I ask BT to remove it, is there anything I can / should do?
> Like, what of those people who might only have our landline number,
> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
> Sipgate numbers)? Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so,
> is that likely to be expensive?
>
> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have a
> LL now?
>
The secret is to get the fibre installed and ask for a new number. Say a
month down the road if the VoIP line is working well get the BT line
number ported to the VoIP service. Ergo you still have your old long
standing number but it is on VoIP with a different provider. Worst case
it will cost you a month or two of two services and possibly a switching
charge - which is not the end of the world.

One other point that many people miss. If you change to a fibre provider
from (I assume) VM as your broadband supplier, more of the fibre
organisations don't not provide mail handling facilities. Not a problem
if all of your mail addresses are with the likes of Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo
etc, but if they are ntlworld/blueyonder/virginmedia addresses then you
will have to find someone else to do it and that will cost albeit again
not the end of the world. I hear good reports of Mythic Beasts but you
need to understand some jargon so that you can get the best out of
talking to them and getting your setup working. I also hear good reports
of IDNet who do provide mail handling.

Finally, if you want to save an awful amount of work notifying your mail
correspondents of your new address, get yourself a domain from a
provider that suppliers free mail forwarding. Then all you have to do
when the move comes is to change the delivery address of any mail sent
to your domain address. Simples?

On Sat 17/02/2024 13:43, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 17/02/2024 12:10, Tweed wrote:
>
>>
>> Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
>> customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
>> existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own view is
>> that free is never a long term solution.
>
> My experience of Sipgate's basic service is it's rubbish. Lousy quality
> calls, and a delay of 30 seconds actually cancelling a call after you've
> hung up.
>
> It's fine for my application, to catch occasional calls from <cough> our
> still surviving eldery relations to phone us on, because they only feel
> comfortable dialing us on an 01xx number !
>
> The VoIP phone I bought will probably end up on ebay before the end of
> this decade.
>

I have two Sipgate circuits and they work (and have worked for well over
a decade) like a dream.
I don't know Mark if it will make any difference but are you using the
ports that Sipgate now recommend - in the 40000 range rather that the
5000's? I had the odd issue way back but since I went into the 40k's its
been perfect.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Consider Andrews and Arnold. You can port your number to them. There is a
>> £15 one off fee. Monthly cost thereafter is £1.44
>>
>> If all you want to do is mop up the odd inbound call set up the line on
>> their control panel to go straight to voicemail. Voicemail can be
>> configured to email you the recording as a WAV attachment. You can add a
>> voip handset if you want to do more with the line.
>>
>> Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
>> customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
>> existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own view is
>> that free is never a long term solution. £1.44/month seems not that
>> painful.
>
> +1 to that. Also to note you can install a SIP app on your mobile(s) and
> have the VOIP number ring the mobiles when there's an incoming call. First
> to pick up gets the call. If nobody picks up it goes to voicemail and the
> recording can be emailed (A&A send you an MP3 not a WAV, and they're usually
> a few hundred KB so not massive).
>
> Theo
>

Just checked and my voicemail attachments are wav. Perhaps it is
configurable.
I use A&A not only for my former landline but also for my deceased mother’s
number. Mine has always been ex-directory and gets few spam calls. My
mother’s has been in the directory for many decades and usually gets two or
three spam calls per day. Without fail they terminate the call after the
beep of please leave a message after the tone. I presume they use some sort
of beep detection. I’m hoping A&A get some micro fee for answering the
call.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:05:22 +0000, Woody wrote:

> I have two Sipgate circuits and they work (and have worked for well over
> a decade) like a dream.
> I don't know Mark if it will make any difference but are you using the
> ports that Sipgate now recommend - in the 40000 range rather that the
> 5000's? I had the odd issue way back but since I went into the 40k's its
> been perfect.

I seamlessly ported my Sipgate number to AAISP. It's only £1.44 a month.
And Sipgate refunded my unused credit in full!

On 17/02/2024 18:05, Woody wrote:
> On Sat 17/02/2024 13:43, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 17/02/2024 12:10, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sipgate have been blowing hot and cold on what they want to do. New
>>> customers have to pay at least £10/month and there were threats to move
>>> existing free customers to this, but it has yet to happen. My own
>>> view is
>>> that free is never a long term solution.
>>
>> My experience of Sipgate's basic service is it's rubbish. Lousy
>> quality calls, and a delay of 30 seconds actually cancelling a call
>> after you've hung up.
>>
>> It's fine for my application, to catch occasional calls from <cough>
>> our still surviving eldery relations to phone us on, because they only
>> feel comfortable dialing us on an 01xx number !
>>
>> The VoIP phone I bought will probably end up on ebay before the end of
>> this decade.
>>
>
> I have two Sipgate circuits and they work (and have worked for well over
> a decade) like a dream.
> I don't know Mark if it will make any difference but are you using the
> ports that Sipgate now recommend - in the 40000 range rather that the
> 5000's? I had the odd issue way back but since I went into the 40k's its
> been perfect.
>
I can't remember, but I did try changing Port Numbers, with no
perceivable difference. I don't understand how changing the ports would
change the quality, given that the 'echo test' reproduces my own voice
perfectly ? It seems to me the problem lies with Sipgate's links into
the 'outside world', or at least the ones they assign to my account.

Anyway, as I say, it doesn't matter, and I'm not going to piss away any
more credit, conducting 'real world' experiments.

It's good enough for my intended application

On 17/02/2024 12:06, Andy Burns wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>
>> could I port it over to a VOIP supplier (I still have a couple of
>> Sipgate numbers)?
>
> Yes, probably cost you a couple of quid/month to keep the number.
>
>> Or maybe it could be forwarded to my mobile and if so, is that likely
>> to be expensive?
>
> Depends, if you leave the line with BT and then forward it you'll pay
> their mobile rate/minute, unless you have a call bundle that includes
> mobiles (sounds unlikely from your description).
>
>> Would BT give us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable,
>
> Give no.  Provide yes, at the same price you currently pay, they might
> chuck in a phone.
>
>
>
> [don't know why I'm replying, you probably won't see this]
>
>
FWIW Andy, I don't have *anyone* killfiled yet, just that I can (and do)
ignore people where, for whatever reason I choose to not associate with.

In your case it was because I respected you, your skills and knowledge
but our morals were so far apart (re your treatment of other animals)
THAT I couldn't happily associate with you any longer.

Thanks for your offer of help though.

Cheers, T i m

On 17/02/2024 12:08, Graham J wrote:
> T i m wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have
>> a LL now?
>
> If you port the landline number to a VoIP service that will
> automatically cancel the landline (and any associated FTTC or ADSL
> service).

Thanks, that's the sort of 'gotcha' I was hoping to learn. ;-)
>
> If you cancel the landline first, it is supposed to be possible to port
> its number to a VoIP service in the succeeding 4 weeks.  This follows an
> Ofcom ruling sometime about last Easter.  But I would not trust the
> process!

Agreed.
>
> If you keep the landline you can forward it to your mobile.  You
> continue to pay the line rental, and you will pay the call cost of the
> forwarding, so the fee for the call from our location to the mobile.
> Could be very expensive unless you have a calls package that discounts it.

I don't and if that means keeping and so paying for the / a line, then I
can't see any advantage there.
>
> If you port the landline number to a VoIP service, you pay a one-off fee
> (about £24) then a monthly charge for the service (I pay £3.60 to
> Voipfone for this).  If you forward incoming calls to your mobile it
> costs typically 7p or 20p per minute depending on the destination mobile
> provider (figures from Voipfone).

Given the LL hasn't worked for 'a long time' now, I have no idea what
sort of traffic level may be involved if I do get it back online, and /
or if it's too late to capture those people who may not know / use my
current mobile number.
>
> A lot depends on the quality of your mobile service.

It's pretty good (good enough for me to consider replacing my VM BB and
going 4G). I can see the 'main' mast from my front door and it seems
there are several more around us that we use etc.

> In my case the
> mobile only works on high ground outside the house, so it's virtually
> useless except when away from home.

;-(

>  My (quite old) handset does not
> support calling via the internet, and I've no enthusiasm for replacing
> it - it does everything else I want.
>
Yup. A mate has only just got himself a smartphone from one of the
little chocolate bar dumb phones but that was partly from my prompting
re the advantages of Whatsapp and for similar reasons to you, that his
home mobile service was a bit unreliable (mast issues more than signal etc).

Full disclosure: When I discovered my very old FritzBox Fon WAN VoIP /
ADSL / Cable router was throttling my VM cable BB service, I removed it
and just used the VM HUB and some Ethernet AP's. In so doing I also lost
the 2 x VoIP ports / 2 x Sipgate lines the FritzBox provided and whilst
I think I asked here a while back about VoIP handsets, I never really
pinned down a replacement solution.

Now I could probably hang the FritzBox VoIP router off the VM one and
just use it to provide the VoIP solution to the two DECT phones I still
have here but it was getting old and I was hoping for something more
energy efficient (for that job) and self sufficient?

So the main goal is to *somehow* still be able to receive any calls
still coming though to my old LL number, if only sufficiently to inform
the caller of my mobile number. If they are genuine / wanted people I
have no issue paying for any call forwarding but obviously not if they
are spam calls.

I might also like the opportunity of an independent way of making calls,
possibly over WiFi that would be independent of my current EE mobile
service.

My main mobile is on a SIM only contract, spare 1 is on a basic Smarty
monthly deal (I sometimes use it as a mobile hotspot when in hospitals
and they don't have good public WiFi and I may make that service /
number my main one in the future) and I still have an old Samsung phone
on a GiffGaff SIM (in case I need to lend daughter a phone etc).

Talking of daughter, she dumped Plusnet and is now using Smarty mobile
BB via my TP-Link MR600 router (that she needs to replace) and has both
a better (faster / more reliable) service at a cheaper price (and no
long contract).

At the first shot I think I like the idea Theo mentioned about a
SmartPhone VoIP app and maybe porting the BT number to that VoIP
service. I already have the phone and Sipgate (if that is the same price
as alternatives) or just go with one of the suggested alternatives and
see how we go. It may be that I don't get any further calls on the old
LL number so could simply forget it?

Is there any particular benefit going to Voipfone (technical / features)
over the cheaper alternatives suggested so far, or is it just what you
happened on at the time Graham?

Worse case it looks like I will be £15/m better off, not that you can do
much with that these days but as mentioned, might pay for some new kit. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

> FWIW Andy, I don't have anyone killfiled yet, just that I can (and do)
> ignore people where, for whatever reason I choose to not associate with.
>
> In your case it was because I respected you, your skills and knowledge
> but our morals were so far apart (re your treatment of other animals)
> THAT I couldn't happily associate with you any longer.

Well, I don't understand that *AT* *ALL*.

I thought you had blanked me because of our different positions on
Brexit, specifically your wish to retrospectively add a supermajority
condition to the referendum result.

For the record I don't eat meat, do eat dairy products, do wear leather,
and play with other peoples' pets, that's about the limit of my
"treatment" of animals ...

T i m wrote:

[snip]

>
> Is there any particular benefit going to Voipfone (technical / features)
> over the cheaper alternatives suggested so far, or is it just what you
> happened on at the time Graham?

I first used Voipfone in 2010 to support some business clients. One
client could only get internet via satellite but even with the latency
of that connection the Voipfone service worked well. I found them
knowledgeable and easy to deal with.

At the time I set up a personal account for testing. Since 2010 I never
used the personal account, but they re-enabled it for me in January 2023
when I wanted to port-in my (two) landline numbers.

Other providers might be cheaper - worth doing the research.

Voipfone send sensible bills, so in that respect they are easier to
understand than BT. Call quality is good - generally better than a mobile.

In a year's use I've seen one problem, on 9 January, when their website
would not accept logins. Their status page showed the problem, and
their progress towards resolving it.

This compares with FTTP when the service failed at 18:36 on 3 February
and was not restored until 21:28 on 4 February - Zen told me that this
was a problem within Openreach that Zen had no power to force Openreach
to fix any quicker.

By contrast I've not seen a landline failure that broke the voice
service since the highways drainage contractor cut the undergound cables
back in about 1990. ADSL and later VDSL would drop out for a minute or
two every few days in response to lightning strikes or Openreach
technicians touching the wrong wires.

--
Graham J

On 19/02/2024 10:40, Andy Burns wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>
>> FWIW Andy, I don't have anyone killfiled yet, just that I can (and do)
>> ignore people where, for whatever reason I choose to not associate with.
>>
>> In your case it was because I respected you, your skills and knowledge
>> but our morals were so far apart (re your treatment of other animals)
>> THAT I couldn't happily associate with you any longer.
>
> Well, I don't understand that *AT* *ALL*.

Ok ...
>
> I thought you had blanked me because of our different positions on
> Brexit, specifically your wish to retrospectively add a supermajority
> condition to the referendum result.

Whilst I didn't (don't) accept the whole Brexit debacle as being the
democratic 'will of the people' (morally rather than technically etc)
I'm not sure I care enough if an ignorant minority sell our cow for some
magic beans to go as far as ignoring someone I respect here over it?
>
> For the record I don't eat meat,

Ok, so don't kill animals directly.

> do eat dairy products, do wear leather,

So do kill animals indirectly.

> and play with other peoples' pets, that's about the limit of my
> "treatment" of animals ...

Hmm. Have I got you confused with another then (from the d-i-y group)?

Are you not a keen woodworker and skilled woodworker who *happily* uses
shellac and who has relatives (you fully support) in the livestock
industries?

Sorry though if I have you confused with another.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

> Hmm. Have I got you confused with another then (from the d-i-y group)?
>
> Are you not a keen woodworker and skilled woodworker who happily uses
> shellac

My woodworking is at the level of building 2x4 partition walls and
hanging doors.

> and who has relatives (you fully support) in the livestock
> industries?

The farming stock on my mother's side were all arable not livestock

> Sorry though if I have you confused with another.

I think you have ...

On 19/02/2024 11:17, Andy Burns wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>
>> Hmm. Have I got you confused with another then (from the d-i-y group)?
>>
>> Are you not a keen woodworker and skilled woodworker who happily uses
>> shellac
>
> My woodworking is at the level of building 2x4 partition walls and
> hanging doors.
>
>> and who has relatives (you fully support) in the livestock industries?
>
> The farming stock on my mother's side were all arable not livestock
>
>> Sorry though if I have you confused with another.
>
> I think you have ...
>
Hmm, ok, so maybe it was a Brexit thing then?

Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers, T i m

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > Is there any particular benefit going to Voipfone (technical / features)
> > over the cheaper alternatives suggested so far, or is it just what you
> > happened on at the time Graham?
>
> I first used Voipfone in 2010 to support some business clients. One
> client could only get internet via satellite but even with the latency
> of that connection the Voipfone service worked well. I found them
> knowledgeable and easy to deal with.

Voipfone and Andrews & Arnold are the two most common mentioned here. Very
roughly:

Voipfone:
£3.60 per number per month
Pay per minute or bundled call packages (NNN minutes per month or unlimited)
PPM rates: Landlines: 1.2p/min, Mobiles: 8.4p/min
Virtual fax service available

A&A
£1.44 per number per month
Pay per minute only
PPM rates: Landlines: 1.5p/min, Mobiles: 4p/min
SIP2SIM available (put your number on a SIM card and use it on a 3G/4G mobile
network with their tariff plus 2p extra)

Support from both seems to be generally good.

Did I miss anything?

Theo

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:56:47 +0000, Theo wrote:

> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> T i m wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>> > Is there any particular benefit going to Voipfone (technical /
>> > features)
>> > over the cheaper alternatives suggested so far, or is it just what
>> > you happened on at the time Graham?
>>
>> I first used Voipfone in 2010 to support some business clients. One
>> client could only get internet via satellite but even with the latency
>> of that connection the Voipfone service worked well. I found them
>> knowledgeable and easy to deal with.
>
> Voipfone and Andrews & Arnold are the two most common mentioned here.
> Very roughly:
>
> Voipfone:
> £3.60 per number per month Pay per minute or bundled call packages (NNN
> minutes per month or unlimited) PPM rates: Landlines: 1.2p/min, Mobiles:
> 8.4p/min Virtual fax service available
>
>
> A&A £1.44 per number per month Pay per minute only PPM rates: Landlines:
> 1.5p/min, Mobiles: 4p/min SIP2SIM available (put your number on a SIM
> card and use it on a 3G/4G mobile network with their tariff plus 2p
> extra)
>
>
> Support from both seems to be generally good.
>
> Did I miss anything?

Worth mentioning that AAISP charge a full minute for the first minute or
part thereof. Then they charge by the second, rounded up to the nearest
1p. So actually cheaper than it looks.

On 19/02/2024 13:55, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:56:47 +0000, Theo wrote:
>
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> T i m wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is there any particular benefit going to Voipfone (technical /
>>>> features)
>>>> over the cheaper alternatives suggested so far, or is it just what
>>>> you happened on at the time Graham?
>>>
>>> I first used Voipfone in 2010 to support some business clients. One
>>> client could only get internet via satellite but even with the latency
>>> of that connection the Voipfone service worked well. I found them
>>> knowledgeable and easy to deal with.
>>
>> Voipfone and Andrews & Arnold are the two most common mentioned here.
>> Very roughly:
>>
>> Voipfone:
>> £3.60 per number per month Pay per minute or bundled call packages (NNN
>> minutes per month or unlimited) PPM rates: Landlines: 1.2p/min, Mobiles:
>> 8.4p/min Virtual fax service available
>>
>>
>> A&A £1.44 per number per month Pay per minute only PPM rates: Landlines:
>> 1.5p/min, Mobiles: 4p/min SIP2SIM available (put your number on a SIM
>> card and use it on a 3G/4G mobile network with their tariff plus 2p
>> extra)
>>
>>
>> Support from both seems to be generally good.
>>
>> Did I miss anything?
>
> Worth mentioning that AAISP charge a full minute for the first minute or
> part thereof. Then they charge by the second, rounded up to the nearest
> 1p. So actually cheaper than it looks.

Sorry Bob, so AAISP is a third option here, a variant of A&A or the same
thing as A&A? (I can research more later).

Cheers, T i m

T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> Sorry Bob, so AAISP is a third option here, a variant of A&A or the same
> thing as A&A? (I can research more later).

"We are Andrews & Arnold Ltd, a limited company, registered in England &
Wales, company number 3342760. We also use trading names of AAISP and A&A."

https://www.aa.net.uk/

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:50:44 +0000, Theo wrote:

> T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>> Sorry Bob, so AAISP is a third option here, a variant of A&A or the
>> same thing as A&A? (I can research more later).
>
> "We are Andrews & Arnold Ltd, a limited company, registered in England &
> Wales, company number 3342760. We also use trading names of AAISP and
> A&A."
>
> https://www.aa.net.uk/

Yes, I generally say AAISP because I'm lazy!

On 17/02/2024 13:43, Woody wrote:

<snip>>>
>> Would BT *give* us a VOIP line / phone in the foreseeable, if we have
>> a LL now?
>>
> The secret is to get the fibre installed and ask for a new number. Say a
> month down the road if the VoIP line is working well get the BT line
> number ported to the VoIP service. Ergo you still have your old long
> standing number but it is on VoIP with a different provider. Worst case
> it will cost you a month or two of two services and possibly a switching
> charge - which is not the end of the world.

I was interested in the fibre, till VM reduced their charges. ;-)
>
> One other point that many people miss. If you change to a fibre provider
> from (I assume) VM as your broadband supplier, more of the fibre
> organisations don't not provide mail handling facilities. Not a problem
> if all of your mail addresses are with the likes of Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo
> etc, but if they are ntlworld/blueyonder/virginmedia addresses then you
> will have to find someone else to do it and that will cost albeit again
> not the end of the world.

Understood. When I was thinking of leaving VM and going 4G I migrated
most of my email contacts / subscriptions to my domai8n.

> I hear good reports of Mythic Beasts but you
> need to understand some jargon so that you can get the best out of
> talking to them and getting your setup working.

Ok.

> I also hear good reports
> of IDNet who do provide mail handling.

I may look into them in the future.
>
> Finally, if you want to save an awful amount of work notifying your mail
> correspondents of your new address, get yourself a domain from a
> provider that suppliers free mail forwarding. Then all you have to do
> when the move comes is to change the delivery address of any mail sent
> to your domain address. Simples?

You make it sound simple Woody. ;-)

I believe you tested / had some VoIP interfaces a while back? Do you
still have / use them etc please?

Cheers, T i m