I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
box with a 1TB drive.

All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
is a lot of money!

At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
capability.

All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
can't get yet).

Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?

Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

David wrote:

> what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.

Virgin FTTH is available here, but I don't really want it, so a piece of
BT's finest 80 Mbps copper string does me OK, it can handle 4K streaming...

On 29/03/2024 in message <l6nrhrF4cr0U1@mid.individual.net> Andy Burns
wrote:

>David wrote:
>
>>what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
>>legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
>>downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>>
>>Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>
>Virgin FTTH is available here, but I don't really want it, so a piece of
>BT's finest 80 Mbps copper string does me OK, it can handle 4K streaming...

I got 72 Mb/s at my previous home, that was FTTC. My ADSL was 8 Mb/s I
think but I did get 14 Mb/s at one stage, was that ADSL2 I wonder?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF
if you can read this, you're a nerd 10.

David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?

That’s the wrong question. Ask instead how much it would cost to have an
unlimited 75Mb FTTP connection.

> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.

--
Spike

On 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.

I'm of the opinion that the most expensive packages are pointless for
95% of households.

We're a family of four on a ~50Mbps (measured) FTTC connection and it
manages with all the streaming we can throw at it incl. 4K. At the peak
of the pandemic we had three of us WFH fulltime without a hic-cup.

I'd much rather a symmetric connection than faster downloads.

On 29 Mar 2024 12:17:53 GMT, David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
>legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
>downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?

I was able to stream HDTV quite nicely with a 25/5 VDSL connection,
the usage graph in the Draytek router I had at the time rarely showing
downloads going above 20, and mostly peaking about 15.

Your requirements might be affected by the number of people in the
household if there are several people wanting to watch different
movies at the same time. Even then it might not be a frequent problem
but I'd recommend going for fibre as soon as you can. Even the slowest
fibre connection should suit any domestic situation.

Rod.

>
> I'm of the opinion that the most expensive packages are pointless for
> 95% of households.
>
> We're a family of four on a ~50Mbps (measured) FTTC connection and it
> manages with all the streaming we can throw at it incl. 4K. At the peak
> of the pandemic we had three of us WFH fulltime without a hic-cup.
>
> I'd much rather a symmetric connection than faster downloads.
>

Same here - and a static IP address might be nice too.

On 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dave R
>
After 18 years working for various ISP's. As much as the sales people
can con them into buying. 1 gig seem to be the norm at the moment.

It always amuses me that people think they have a 1 gig connection to
the internet what ever that is.

>>
> After 18 years working for various ISP's. As much as the sales people
> can con them into buying. 1 gig seem to be the norm at the moment.
>
> It always amuses me that people think they have a 1 gig connection to
> the internet what ever that is.

Really ?

It would be nice to have the choice - this area is clearly at the back
of the queue for OR FTTP

On Fri 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>

Be aware that VM have changed the rules as of last mid-year. The annual
increase is now part of the contract and cannot be used as an excuse to
go elsewhere without paying for early contract termination - and that is
roughly your monthly payment times the number of months!

If you are need the end of contract and can withstand paying them off.
ring Retentions and see what they can offer you. I was on about £46 and
going up to £51pm, but their notification letter said that a new
customer would be paying £34pm. I called Retentions and pointed out that
I can have 150Mb both ways for about £27pm (accepted you do not have
FTTH yet) but it pushed them and I got my current data rate for £35pm
(which will go up to £57 at the end of contract.) Retentions is on 150
if you have a VM line, or 0345 454 1111 on any other, option 1, 4, 4 but
before 20h00 weekdays.

On Fri 29/03/2024 16:09, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm of the opinion that the most expensive packages are pointless for
>> 95% of households.
>>
>> We're a family of four on a ~50Mbps (measured) FTTC connection and it
>> manages with all the streaming we can throw at it incl. 4K. At the
>> peak of the pandemic we had three of us WFH fulltime without a hic-cup.
>>
>> I'd much rather a symmetric connection than faster downloads.
>>
>
>
> Same here - and a static IP address might be nice too.

Static address is nice, but I have VM and the external address has only
changed once in the 23 years I have had a cable service from them - and
that was after a drunk piled the street cab at the top of my road about
15 years ago!
With the aid of my s-i-l I have used a RPi Zero-W which runs a small
package that checks my external address every five minutes and passes
the result to duckdns if it has changed. Then all you need to do is
interrogate duckdns to check the result before using it on line or in a
VPN. [You can also use a RPi 3B or 4 as a private VPN so you have full
control.]

On 29 Mar 2024 12:17:53 GMT, David wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.

It isn't clear if there will be satellite TV after the end of the
decade as the various satellites go past end-of-life and the costs
can't be justified.

But, for the moment, if you are only streaming SD (or occasional HD) to
your laptop 20-30Mb/s is probably enough. If you want 4K you'll need a
bit more.

I have found that it is the upstream that can be an issue. Even if
downstream looks good enough, if your asymmetry is large then it can be
throttled by upstream to a degree.

What sort of FTTC can you expect? The BT Wholesale site can be helpful
here: https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dave R
>

Time to phone VM and negotiate. They gave in rather quickly to my son
recently and offered him the same price as a new customer. Halved his
monthly payment.

Happily I managed to sack them as CityFibre have now provided me physical
service and IDnet are providing an excellent ISP offering.

As to your original question, I certainly notice the difference between
500/500 and 80/20 (which I sometimes use at another location) even for
basic web browsing.

On 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
> box with a 1TB drive.
>
> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
> is a lot of money!
>
> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
> capability.
>
> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
> can't get yet).
>
> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?

Is that really all you have available? Are you on the BT Fibre build plan?

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband

>
> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dave R
>

Dave

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
>> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
>> box with a 1TB drive.
>>
>> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
>> is a lot of money!
>>
>> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
>> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
>> capability.
>>
>> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
>> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
>> can't get yet).
>>
>> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
>> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
>> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>
>
> Is that really all you have available? Are you on the BT Fibre build plan?
>
> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>
>
>
Exceptions apply, but I’ve gained the general impression that Open Reach
FTTP builds are a low priority where there is an existing well established
VM presence.

On Fri 29/03/2024 18:40, Tweed wrote:
> David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
>> box with a 1TB drive.
>>
>> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
>> is a lot of money!
>>
>> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
>> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
>> capability.
>>
>> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
>> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
>> can't get yet).
>>
>> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
>> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
>> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>>
>> Recognising that this is a piece of string exercise.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave R
>>
>
> Time to phone VM and negotiate. They gave in rather quickly to my son
> recently and offered him the same price as a new customer. Halved his
> monthly payment.
>
> Happily I managed to sack them as CityFibre have now provided me physical
> service and IDnet are providing an excellent ISP offering.
>
> As to your original question, I certainly notice the difference between
> 500/500 and 80/20 (which I sometimes use at another location) even for
> basic web browsing.
>

VM managed to push me up (Foc) to 100/20 from 50/5 and it was certainly
noticeable. Then when they pushed the price up as well I asked to be
reduced to 50/5 and by comparison it crawls.
I wonder if they reduce effective speed by simply putting in a time
delay between my request and their reply?

Tweed wrote:

[snip]

>> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>>
>>
>>
> Exceptions apply, but I’ve gained the general impression that Open Reach
> FTTP builds are a low priority where there is an existing well established
> VM presence.

FTTP builds appear to be prioritised in well populated rural areas where
FTTC struggles to achieve anything better than ADSL speeds.

An example is my village (near Thetford in Norfolk, so not very rural).
Properties more than about 500 metres from the green cabinet have had
FTTP since February 2023, but those nearer than 500 metres have FTTC and
generally get 30 Mbits/sec download speeds; and are not being offered
FTTP at present or in the foreseeable future.

By contrast I know of properly rural locations where the only available
service is ADSL at about 1.5 Mbits/sec download, 448 kbits/sec upload.
In these location FTTP is not being offered, and it is not clear what
Openreach will do at the end of 2025 when they discontinue POTS.

One such user has been told:

"... there is no chance of connection to any digital pathway but the
copper line will remain available even after the general cut off date".

I suspect new customers in such areas will be deemed to have put
themselves intentionally outside the geographic area for any Universal
Service Obligation so will be offered FTTP on the basis of £50,000 up
front plus engineering charges dependent on the distance. So not easily
affordable even for very profitable large farms!

--
Graham J

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Exceptions apply, but I’ve gained the general impression that Open Reach
>> FTTP builds are a low priority where there is an existing well established
>> VM presence.
>
> FTTP builds appear to be prioritised in well populated rural areas where
> FTTC struggles to achieve anything better than ADSL speeds.
>
> An example is my village (near Thetford in Norfolk, so not very rural).
> Properties more than about 500 metres from the green cabinet have had
> FTTP since February 2023, but those nearer than 500 metres have FTTC and
> generally get 30 Mbits/sec download speeds; and are not being offered
> FTTP at present or in the foreseeable future.
>
> By contrast I know of properly rural locations where the only available
> service is ADSL at about 1.5 Mbits/sec download, 448 kbits/sec upload.
> In these location FTTP is not being offered, and it is not clear what
> Openreach will do at the end of 2025 when they discontinue POTS.
>
> One such user has been told:
>
> "... there is no chance of connection to any digital pathway but the
> copper line will remain available even after the general cut off date".
>
> I suspect new customers in such areas will be deemed to have put
> themselves intentionally outside the geographic area for any Universal
> Service Obligation so will be offered FTTP on the basis of £50,000 up
> front plus engineering charges dependent on the distance. So not easily
> affordable even for very profitable large farms!
>

I guess Starlink will be the solution for them.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm of the opinion that the most expensive packages are pointless for
> 95% of households.
>
> We're a family of four on a ~50Mbps (measured) FTTC connection and it
> manages with all the streaming we can throw at it incl. 4K. At the peak
> of the pandemic we had three of us WFH fulltime without a hic-cup.
>
> I'd much rather a symmetric connection than faster downloads.

VM's packages are so asymmetric - so it's 350M down and 35M up. When I was
on VM I was on a higher package purely to increase the upload bandwidth.

(I think currently the higher tier is 1.1G down and only 52M up, so no matter
what you pay the upload is still poor)

Theo

On 29/03/2024 19:17, Tweed wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> On 29/03/2024 12:17, David wrote:
>>> I am currently with Virgin Media on a 300 Mb cable connection, with a TV
>>> box with a 1TB drive.
>>>
>>> All very nice, but they now propose to charge me over £100 a month which
>>> is a lot of money!
>>>
>>> At least half our viewing is over satellite plus streaming of films etc.
>>> to a laptop and we have Humax boxes on the sat link to give recording
>>> capability.
>>>
>>> All in all it looks as though there is not very much which is VM specific
>>> apart from the excellent cable service (matched only by FTTP which we
>>> can't get yet).
>>>
>>> Hence the question - what speed (which would be over potentially low grade
>>> legacy phone line) would I need to support streaming, occasional large
>>> downloads, and the usual web and email surfing?
>>
>>
>> Is that really all you have available? Are you on the BT Fibre build plan?
>>
>> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>>
>>
>>
> Exceptions apply, but I’ve gained the general impression that Open Reach
> FTTP builds are a low priority where there is an existing well established
> VM presence.
>
Thats very odd as where I live, Altrincham, there is VM available to
most properties, yet we had FTTC and now FTTP an brsk are putting poles
up. Weird.

Dave

>
>
> Is that really all you have available? Are you on the BT Fibre build plan?
>
> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>
>
>

Hard to say from this link - all I get is the chance to "register my
interest"

The where and when continue to be a secret

On 30/03/2024 12:46, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Is that really all you have available? Are you on the BT Fibre build
>> plan?
>>
>> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Hard to say from this link - all I get is the chance to "register my
> interest"
>

you scrolled too far...

>
> The where and when continue to be a secret
>

If you scroll down to the map, just after the line

"Is my exchange in your build plan?"

there is a box into which you can put a post code, and it will show you
where BT is up to, building, planned, or CBA.

you don't even need a post code. Click roughly where your house is and
you can scroll...

Dave

>
> If you scroll down to the map, just after the line
>
> "Is my exchange in your build plan?"
>
> there is a box into which you can put a post code, and it will show you
> where BT is up to, building, planned, or CBA.
>
> you don't even need a post code. Click roughly where your house is and
> you can scroll...
>
> Dave

Thanks for that

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 18:40:02 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Time to phone VM and negotiate. They gave in rather quickly to my son
>recently and offered him the same price as a new customer. Halved his
>monthly payment.
>
They weren't prepared to move at all when a near neighbour rang them
but he was able to extract himself from them and is now with a
CityFibre ISP. Haven't seen him to ascertain the details.

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 18:40:02 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Time to phone VM and negotiate. They gave in rather quickly to my son
>> recently and offered him the same price as a new customer. Halved his
>> monthly payment.
>>
> They weren't prepared to move at all when a near neighbour rang them
> but he was able to extract himself from them and is now with a
> CityFibre ISP. Haven't seen him to ascertain the details.
>

Presumably Cityfibre isn’t an option for you? When I sacked VM I had
numerous offers emailed to me to try to get me to come back. They were
still more expensive than the CF ISP offering, but not as outlandish as
their previous charges.