A neighbour was cold-called by EE and sold a new broadband contract,
only found out after the change that they have lost the PSTN number
they've had for decades.

Looking at EE's website, they don't seem to have any offering where the
PSTN number is retained, if you want a Digital Voice number, they say
you *will* lose the existing number, and your can't get it back.

There was murmuring of the "right to port" numbers to a different VoIP
provider within 30 days, I can't see any reference to this requirement
on the OFCOM website, only on ispreview.co.uk, anyone?

The neighbour is typical of the sort of person who won't want the
hassle/cost of a separate VoIP device and monthly payment, and TBH I
don't want to start getting involved in trying to fix Digital Voice
issues for every man and their dog in the village.

Anyone know of a way to force EE to recover the number, or use a
cooling-off period to reverse the change, or allow the customer to
"escape" to a more accommodating provider due to being "tricked"?

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Anyone know of a way to force EE to recover the number, or use a
> cooling-off period to reverse the change, or allow the customer to
> "escape" to a more accommodating provider due to being "tricked"?

I don't know anything about EE or cooling off periods, but I wonder if one
of the VOIP providers can be used to hold onto the number. They might know
their way around 'right to port' and be able to recover the number in time.
Once done, then port the number back to EE (if they allow that?)

What is the timeframe - when did the new contract start?

Maybe call EE and ask if you can port a number in to an existing Digital
Voice?

Theo

On 11/04/2024 20:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> A neighbour was cold-called by EE and sold a new broadband contract,
> only found out after the change that they have lost the PSTN number
> they've had for decades.
>
> Looking at EE's website, they don't seem to have any offering where the
> PSTN number is retained, if you want a Digital Voice number, they say
> you *will* lose the existing number, and your can't get it back.
>
> There was murmuring of the "right to port" numbers to  a different VoIP
> provider within 30 days, I can't see any reference to this requirement
> on the OFCOM website, only on ispreview.co.uk, anyone?
>
> The neighbour is typical of the sort of person who won't want the
> hassle/cost of a separate VoIP device and monthly payment, and TBH I
> don't want to start getting involved in trying to fix Digital Voice
> issues for every man and their dog in the village.
>
> Anyone know of a way to force EE to recover the number, or use a
> cooling-off period to reverse the change, or allow the customer to
> "escape" to a more accommodating provider due to being "tricked"?
>

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/solutions/residential

In most cases we can rescue your number even if your old account has
already been closed.

Dave

David Wade wrote:
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/solutions/residential
>
> In most cases we can rescue your number even if your old account has
> already been closed.
Yes, I assume that would be a possible route, I use voipfone for a
couple of extra "lines", but does a "normal" customer want to spend £50
for an ATA and then £5/month just to keep their old number?

Andy Burns wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
>> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/solutions/residential
>>
>> In most cases we can rescue your number even if your old account has
>> already been closed.
>
> Yes, I assume that would be a possible route, I use voipfone for a
> couple of extra "lines", but does a "normal" customer want to spend £50
> for an ATA and then £5/month just to keep their old number?

It may well be cheaper than the previous arrangement. For example:

Current running costs:
Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
ADSL Broadband from Zen @ £19.20 per month
Total £68.70

Projected running costs:
Zen SOGEA = £32.00 per month
Voipfone Flex = £ 0.00 per month - have to set zero users
Voipfone number = £ 3.60 per month
Total = £37.40 per month

Capital costs
Zen SOGEA = £ 9.95 activation fee
Voipfone ATA = £62.40 Plus delivery £12
Total = £84.35

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:
> It may well be cheaper than the previous arrangement.  For example:
Maybe, obv BT, EE and Plusnet are all part of the same group, with
different offerings ...
I knew Plusnet were wanting to ditch anything to do with voice when you
switch to FTTP or SOGEA, in fact they charge slightly *more* to not
provide the voice service.
EE with SOGEA do provide a digital voice service, but seem to discourage
porting the number, or claim you can't port it.
BT Internet, retain the old PSTN number, but are as expensive as ever.
> Current running costs:
> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?

On 11/04/2024 22:42, Andy Burns wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
>> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/solutions/residential
>>
>> In most cases we can rescue your number even if your old account has
>> already been closed.
>
> Yes, I assume that would be a possible route, I use voipfone for a
> couple of extra "lines", but does a "normal" customer want to spend £50
> for an ATA and then £5/month just to keep their old number?
>

I use my ZEN router. I hve the minimal contract so less than £5.00.

On 11/04/2024 22:52, Graham J wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> David Wade wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/solutions/residential
>>>
>>> In most cases we can rescue your number even if your old account has
>>> already been closed.
>>
>> Yes, I assume that would be a possible route, I use voipfone for a
>> couple of extra "lines", but does a "normal" customer want to spend
>> £50 for an ATA and then £5/month just to keep their old number?
>
> It may well be cheaper than the previous arrangement.  For example:
>
> Current running costs:
> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
> ADSL Broadband from Zen @ £19.20 per month
> Total £68.70
>
> Projected running costs:
> Zen SOGEA    = £32.00 per month
> Voipfone Flex    = £ 0.00 per month - have to set zero users
> Voipfone number    = £ 3.60 per month
> Total        = £37.40 per month
>
> Capital costs
> Zen SOGEA    = £ 9.95 activation fee
> Voipfone ATA    = £62.40 Plus delivery £12
> Total         = £84.35
>
>
If you go ZEN you don't need an ATA. The Fritz!box router will talk to
voipfone's SIP server..

Dave

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

> A neighbour was cold-called by EE and sold a new broadband contract,
> only found out after the change that they have lost the PSTN number
> they've had for decades.
>
> Looking at EE's website, they don't seem to have any offering where
> the PSTN number is retained, if you want a Digital Voice number, they
> say you *will* lose the existing number, and your can't get it back.
>
> There was murmuring of the "right to port" numbers to a different VoIP
> provider within 30 days, I can't see any reference to this requirement
> on the OFCOM website, only on ispreview.co.uk, anyone?
>
> The neighbour is typical of the sort of person who won't want the
> hassle/cost of a separate VoIP device and monthly payment, and TBH I
> don't want to start getting involved in trying to fix Digital Voice
> issues for every man and their dog in the village.
>
> Anyone know of a way to force EE to recover the number, or use a
> cooling-off period to reverse the change, or allow the customer to
> "escape" to a more accommodating provider due to being "tricked"?

The 14 day cooling off period is part of your consumer rights I think.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/broadband/can-i-cancel-my-broadband-contract-early

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Graham J wrote:
>
> > Current running costs:
> > Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
>
> Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?

It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
coverage, just about all of our outgoing (and incoming but that's not
relevant) calls are still on the landline.

We have PlusNet FTTC with an 'everything' call plan. It costs somewhat
less at £38/month including the FTTC.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> Current running costs:
>>> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
>>
>> Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?
>
> It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
> coverage, just about all of our outgoing (and incoming but that's not
> relevant) calls are still on the landline.
>
> We have PlusNet FTTC with an 'everything' call plan. It costs somewhat
> less at £38/month including the FTTC.
>

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-gives-up-on-uk-home-phone-services.html

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> > Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> >> Graham J wrote:
> >>
> >>> Current running costs:
> >>> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
> >>
> >> Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?
> >
> > It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
> > coverage, just about all of our outgoing (and incoming but that's not
> > relevant) calls are still on the landline.
> >
> > We have PlusNet FTTC with an 'everything' call plan. It costs somewhat
> > less at £38/month including the FTTC.
> >
>
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-gives-up-on-uk-home-phone-services.html
>
Yes, I know, look at the thread here "Most painless way to move to
VOIP?". :-)

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>> Graham J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Current running costs:
>>>>> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
>>>>
>>>> Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?
>>>
>>> It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
>>> coverage, just about all of our outgoing (and incoming but that's not
>>> relevant) calls are still on the landline.
>>>
>>> We have PlusNet FTTC with an 'everything' call plan. It costs somewhat
>>> less at £38/month including the FTTC.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-gives-up-on-uk-home-phone-services.html
>>
>>
> Yes, I know, look at the thread here "Most painless way to move to
> VOIP?". :-)
>

The solution to poor mobile coverage is to use a mobile operator and phone
that implement WiFi calling correctly. My iPhone works quite happily in the
basement at work, where there is no hint of a mobile signal but good wifi
coverage.

Tweed wrote:

> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-gives-up-on-uk-home-phone-services.html

Yes, that's no surprise (I think some where hoping they'd add voice
support to their FTTP product, rather than remove it from the FTTC
product).

If there was a non-destructive way to whisk my PSTN number into my
voipfone account, I'd do it today; but I think I'll wait until the end
of my current Plusnet FTTC contract (August?), replace it as a Plusnet
SOGEA equivalent, then "reclaim" the lost number, at least that way I
should keep my subnet of 8 IPs.

Tweed wrote:
> The solution to poor mobile coverage is to use a mobile operator and phone
> that implement WiFi calling correctly.
Agreed, my Android phone is now on O₂ and does support WiFi Calling,
before the same phone refused to allow it with different SIMs.
It gets great call quality when at home (no having to stand still while
on a call) and over at my parents' house where I used to get
approximately zero coverage, I've temporarily installed a MiFi there on
Smarty, which the mobile then happily uses for voice/text coverage. I
can quite happily do remote working from there while clearing the house out.
one thing I've noticed with Smarty is that their IP ranges have quite
poor reputation, Plusnet's POP/IMAP servers refuse to let me
authenticate from the MiFi, thankfully I can use a VPN to escape that
problem.

Chris Green wrote:

[snip]

>
> It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
> coverage,

True in this case ..

--
Graham J

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> > Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> >>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> >>>> Graham J wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Current running costs:
> >>>>> Landline & calls bundle from BT @ £49.50 per month
> >>>>
> >>>> Wow, does anyone spend that much on landline calls any more?
> >>>
> >>> It makes some sense if you are in a location with poor mobile
> >>> coverage, just about all of our outgoing (and incoming but that's not
> >>> relevant) calls are still on the landline.
> >>>
> >>> We have PlusNet FTTC with an 'everything' call plan. It costs somewhat
> >>> less at £38/month including the FTTC.
> >>>
> >>
> >> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-gives-up-on-uk-home-phone-services.html
>
> >>
> >>
> > Yes, I know, look at the thread here "Most painless way to move to
> > VOIP?". :-)
> >
>
> The solution to poor mobile coverage is to use a mobile operator and phone
> that implement WiFi calling correctly. My iPhone works quite happily in the
> basement at work, where there is no hint of a mobile signal but good wifi
> coverage.
>
Not if you have a 9 acre smallholding. DECT phones on a landline
cover vastly more of our rambling house and outbuildings than even the
five or six WiFi APs we have.

--
Chris Green
·

Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]
>
> one thing I've noticed with Smarty is that their IP ranges have quite
> poor reputation, Plusnet's POP/IMAP servers refuse to let me
> authenticate from the MiFi, thankfully I can use a VPN to escape that
> problem.

That's true of all the mobile operators that use GCNAT - I've seen it
with EE and Vodafone.

If you buy your email service from a reputable supplier - to get your
own domain name - you will find that supplier even more reluctant to
accept any incoming traffic from a blacklisted IP.

Do any mobile operators offer IPv6 ?

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:

> Do any mobile operators offer IPv6 ?

Some EE SIMs don't offer IPv4 any more.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
> > The solution to poor mobile coverage is to use a mobile operator and phone
> > that implement WiFi calling correctly.
>
> Agreed, my Android phone is now on O₂ and does support WiFi Calling,
> before the same phone refused to allow it with different SIMs.
>
> It gets great call quality when at home (no having to stand still while
> on a call) and over at my parents' house where I used to get
> approximately zero coverage, I've temporarily installed a MiFi there on
> Smarty, which the mobile then happily uses for voice/text coverage. I
> can quite happily do remote working from there while clearing the house out.
>
> one thing I've noticed with Smarty is that their IP ranges have quite
> poor reputation, Plusnet's POP/IMAP servers refuse to let me
> authenticate from the MiFi, thankfully I can use a VPN to escape that
> problem.
>
All very well but smartphones are (IMHO) the most unergonomic
**phones** I have ever come across. Our DECT phones are *way* easier
to use as phones and work over a far wider area in and around our
(admittedly large and rambling) house and surroundings.

--
Chris Green
·

Andy Burns wrote:

> A neighbour was cold-called by EE and sold a new broadband contract,
> only found out after the change that they have lost the PSTN number
> they've had for decades.
>
> Anyone know of a way to force EE to recover the number

I don't know what hoops had to be jumped through, but the old number is
now allocated to the EE digital voice service ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> I don't know what hoops had to be jumped through, but the old number is
> now allocated to the EE digital voice service ...

Result :)

Good to know, for those in a similar pickle.

Theo