Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:12:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28.11.23 17:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uk54ms$bb9a$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:29 on Tue, 28 Nov
>>>>> 2023, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>> On 28/11/2023 12:02, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My understanding is that strict observers aren't allowed to use
>>>>>>>>> money on
>>>>>>>>> the Sabbath, nor use anything that resembles "technology" (although
>>>>>>>>> apparently light switches and so on have somehow become exempt).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, they're not.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  They are still forbidden?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are candles also forbidden, or is falling down the stairs in the middle
>>>>> of the night a religious imperative
>>>>
>>>> The rule, formally, is against making fire. As electrical switches can
>>>> cause small sparks in their operation, they are interpreted as falling
>>>> under the category of "making fire". A candle is, more obviously, making
>>>> fire, so is definitely forbidden. An automatic system that works without
>>>> any manual intervention is fine, though, both timer activated lights or
>>>> lights activated by motion sensors are fine.
>>>
>>> Does the timer have to be set before the start of the Sabbath? Or could a
>>> purely mechanical timer be started at bed time on Friday night, that would
>>> switch off the lights in about 10 minutes?
>>>
>>> Of course, these are really philosophical questions. They come up with
>>> bizarre interpretations of ancient rules that made good sense at the time,
>>> then come up with strange workarounds for the strange rules they've
>>> devised.
>>>
>>> For example, the Sabbath was really just a perfectly sensible,
>>> ahead-of-its-time HR policy: everyone got a guaranteed day off from work
>>> each week. The unions insisted on a definition of the 'work' that shouldn't
>>> be performed on the day off, much as modern trade unions do. Of course, the
>>> definition related to the work performed in biblical times. Similarly the
>>> diet rules made sense in a hot climate without refrigeration: avoid foods
>>> that go off quickly, and could become toxic.
>>>
>>> And now we end up with a confusing mishmash of silly modern interpretations
>>> that are completely unrelated to the well-meaning original intent. Most
>>> modern Jews don't pay them much attention, but an ultra-orthodox minority
>>> become obsessed with the petty, modern interpretations of the simple,
>>> sensible original rules.
>>>
>>> They then devise symbolic loopholes like eruvs, auto-timers, stopping
>>> lifts, Sabbath mode on appliances or the ugly, pointless appendage on the
>>> museum. As the rules can be suspended anyway in life-threatening
>>> situations, why not hand out derogations more readily, as with UK rolling
>>> stock?
>>
>> The latter except for the Jacobite of course:
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67552056
>
>
> It's had a derogation for quite a long time. Slam door trains without CDL
> haven't been used on normal, scheduled service trains for many years (2010,
> on the Lymington branch I think, 2005 elsewhere).
>
>

The Lymington trains had CDL.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:12:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 28.11.23 17:42, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uk54ms$bb9a$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:29 on Tue, 28 Nov
>>>>>> 2023, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 28/11/2023 12:02, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My understanding is that strict observers aren't allowed to use
>>>>>>>>>> money on
>>>>>>>>>> the Sabbath, nor use anything that resembles "technology" (although
>>>>>>>>>> apparently light switches and so on have somehow become exempt).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, they're not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  They are still forbidden?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are candles also forbidden, or is falling down the stairs in the middle
>>>>>> of the night a religious imperative
>>>>>
>>>>> The rule, formally, is against making fire. As electrical switches can
>>>>> cause small sparks in their operation, they are interpreted as falling
>>>>> under the category of "making fire". A candle is, more obviously, making
>>>>> fire, so is definitely forbidden. An automatic system that works without
>>>>> any manual intervention is fine, though, both timer activated lights or
>>>>> lights activated by motion sensors are fine.
>>>>
>>>> Does the timer have to be set before the start of the Sabbath? Or could a
>>>> purely mechanical timer be started at bed time on Friday night, that would
>>>> switch off the lights in about 10 minutes?
>>>>
>>>> Of course, these are really philosophical questions. They come up with
>>>> bizarre interpretations of ancient rules that made good sense at the time,
>>>> then come up with strange workarounds for the strange rules they've
>>>> devised.
>>>>
>>>> For example, the Sabbath was really just a perfectly sensible,
>>>> ahead-of-its-time HR policy: everyone got a guaranteed day off from work
>>>> each week. The unions insisted on a definition of the 'work' that shouldn't
>>>> be performed on the day off, much as modern trade unions do. Of course, the
>>>> definition related to the work performed in biblical times. Similarly the
>>>> diet rules made sense in a hot climate without refrigeration: avoid foods
>>>> that go off quickly, and could become toxic.
>>>>
>>>> And now we end up with a confusing mishmash of silly modern interpretations
>>>> that are completely unrelated to the well-meaning original intent. Most
>>>> modern Jews don't pay them much attention, but an ultra-orthodox minority
>>>> become obsessed with the petty, modern interpretations of the simple,
>>>> sensible original rules.
>>>>
>>>> They then devise symbolic loopholes like eruvs, auto-timers, stopping
>>>> lifts, Sabbath mode on appliances or the ugly, pointless appendage on the
>>>> museum. As the rules can be suspended anyway in life-threatening
>>>> situations, why not hand out derogations more readily, as with UK rolling
>>>> stock?
>>>
>>> The latter except for the Jacobite of course:
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67552056
>>
>>
>> It's had a derogation for quite a long time. Slam door trains without CDL
>> haven't been used on normal, scheduled service trains for many years (2010,
>> on the Lymington branch I think, 2005 elsewhere).
>>
>>
>
> The Lymington trains had CDL.

Thanks. So was 2005 the end of slam doors without CDL for normal service
trains?