Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
Liverpool St, and are then fined �100 for fare dodging when gripped.
The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
lot of people you might not notice them.

My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
ask someone for help and then what? Pay �100 then? Pay whatever
the fare is?

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

In message <ulat01$oso$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 00:13:53 on Wed, 13 Dec 2023,
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:

>Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>Liverpool St, and are then fined £100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>lot of people you might not notice them.
>
>My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>ask someone for help and then what? Pay £100 then? Pay whatever
>the fare is?

Stansted doesn't have gates, but a vigorous presence of grippers at a
chicane as you exit the platforms. Their main purpose in life seems to
be to inflict the tourist-tax you mention on travellers from London.

As I recounted at some length here in Septemeber, they ge very confused
when someone without a ticket arrives from the Cambridge direction
(where there are legitimate excuses for not having as ticket). Or to be
less apologetic, legitimate *reasons* for not having a ticket.

In my view they should be given the means to see if a passenger from
London has arrived completely ticketless (where are slimmer reasons for
doing so) compared to holding an incompleted Oyster or CCC ticket. In
perfect world they'd charge the Stansted Express fare, and then have a
back-channel to TfL to void the fruitless touch-in at Liverpool St.
--
Roland Perry

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
> that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
> Liverpool St, and are then fined ｣100 for fare dodging when gripped.
> The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
> lot of people you might not notice them.

It’s a perfect example of the often passenger-hostile organisation of
public transport in the UK.

It seems totally reasonable to expect that the much-publicised and
encouraged London fare system (or whatever you might want to call it) would
actually cover London’s named airports.

That in 2023, it still doesn’t, is obviously ludicrous and more than a
little depressing.

Lew

>
> My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
> at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
> ask someone for help and then what? Pay ｣100 then? Pay whatever
> the fare is?

A few years ago at Harpenden I encountered a whole team of fare inspectors
at the exit on a Sunday morning.

Not usually known as peak time, I enquired what they were doing there on
mass, and was told there was a fun run event going on nearby, and the train
company anticipated lots of people arriving. If you’re wondering why that
would necessitate a whole team of revenue protectors, it soon became
obvious.

When a train arrived from London and masses of runner-types swamped the
exit, the team of staff swung efficiently into action - gleefully doling
out penalty fares to everyone who was attempting to use Oyster, no doubt in
addition to the unresolved journeys they would be charged.

They even had someone cajoling the unfortunates into a long orderly queue
to receive their penalty fare.

Lew

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 07:30:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <ulat01$oso$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 00:13:53 on Wed, 13 Dec 2023,
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>
>>Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>>Liverpool St, and are then fined £100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>>The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>>lot of people you might not notice them.
>>
>>My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>>at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>>ask someone for help and then what? Pay £100 then? Pay whatever
>>the fare is?
>
>Stansted doesn't have gates, but a vigorous presence of grippers at a
>chicane as you exit the platforms. Their main purpose in life seems to
>be to inflict the tourist-tax you mention on travellers from London.
>
>As I recounted at some length here in Septemeber, they ge very confused
>when someone without a ticket arrives from the Cambridge direction
>(where there are legitimate excuses for not having as ticket). Or to be
>less apologetic, legitimate *reasons* for not having a ticket.
>
>In my view they should be given the means to see if a passenger from
>London has arrived completely ticketless (where are slimmer reasons for
>doing so) compared to holding an incompleted Oyster or CCC ticket. In
>perfect world they'd charge the Stansted Express fare, and then have a
>back-channel to TfL to void the fruitless touch-in at Liverpool St.

As by far the most frequent user of Stansted Express I'll throw in my
two-penworth.

Signs and announcements are prominent and clear that contactless is
not valid beyond Tottenham (on SE, Broxbourne if on a Cambridge
service). I'm not sure what else GA could do. The ideal would be to
extend contactless to the airport; Stansted was supposed to be in the
first tranche, but was quietly dropped. I assume that the decision was
made by DfT, not by GA.

And as to Roland's rather typical assertion that GA are out to fleece
passengers (or is it just him?) I don't think that's supported by the
facts. As a ToC their reliability and customer satisfaction is as good
as it gets for a busy commuter service.

On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>> that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>> Liverpool St, and are then fined ｣100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>> The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>> lot of people you might not notice them.
>
> It’s a perfect example of the often passenger-hostile organisation of
> public transport in the UK.
>
> It seems totally reasonable to expect that the much-publicised and
> encouraged London fare system (or whatever you might want to call it) would
> actually cover London’s named airports.
>
> That in 2023, it still doesn’t, is obviously ludicrous and more than a
> little depressing.
>
> Lew
>
>>
>> My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>> at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>> ask someone for help and then what? Pay ｣100 then? Pay whatever
>> the fare is?
>
> A few years ago at Harpenden I encountered a whole team of fare inspectors
> at the exit on a Sunday morning.
>
> Not usually known as peak time, I enquired what they were doing there on
> mass, and was told there was a fun run event going on nearby, and the train
> company anticipated lots of people arriving. If you’re wondering why that
> would necessitate a whole team of revenue protectors, it soon became
> obvious.
>
> When a train arrived from London and masses of runner-types swamped the
> exit, the team of staff swung efficiently into action - gleefully doling
> out penalty fares to everyone who was attempting to use Oyster, no doubt in
> addition to the unresolved journeys they would be charged.
>
> They even had someone cajoling the unfortunates into a long orderly queue
> to receive their penalty fare.
>
> Lew

Have you forgotten? This is rip-off Britain.
Anyone who makes a simple mistake with our crazy ticketing system is
treated as a criminal to be penalised.

In message <i2vinil983mk5jibv0pqdrek6tlviep7oe@4ax.com>, at 09:49:21 on
Wed, 13 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 07:30:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <ulat01$oso$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 00:13:53 on Wed, 13 Dec 2023,
>>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>
>>>Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>>that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>>>Liverpool St, and are then fined £100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>>>The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>>>lot of people you might not notice them.
>>>
>>>My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>>>at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>>>ask someone for help and then what? Pay £100 then? Pay whatever
>>>the fare is?
>>
>>Stansted doesn't have gates, but a vigorous presence of grippers at a
>>chicane as you exit the platforms. Their main purpose in life seems to
>>be to inflict the tourist-tax you mention on travellers from London.
>>
>>As I recounted at some length here in Septemeber, they ge very confused
>>when someone without a ticket arrives from the Cambridge direction
>>(where there are legitimate excuses for not having as ticket). Or to be
>>less apologetic, legitimate *reasons* for not having a ticket.
>>
>>In my view they should be given the means to see if a passenger from
>>London has arrived completely ticketless (where are slimmer reasons for
>>doing so) compared to holding an incompleted Oyster or CCC ticket. In
>>perfect world they'd charge the Stansted Express fare, and then have a
>>back-channel to TfL to void the fruitless touch-in at Liverpool St.
>
>As by far the most frequent user of Stansted Express I'll throw in my
>two-penworth.
>
>Signs and announcements are prominent and clear that contactless is
>not valid beyond Tottenham (on SE, Broxbourne if on a Cambridge
>service). I'm not sure what else GA could do. The ideal would be to
>extend contactless to the airport; Stansted was supposed to be in the
>first tranche, but was quietly dropped. I assume that the decision was
>made by DfT, not by GA.
>
>And as to Roland's rather typical assertion that GA are out to fleece
>passengers (or is it just him?) I don't think that's supported by the
>facts.

It's under orders from DfT, and plain as a pikestaff if you listen to
the conversations at their ticket checking facility at the airport.

>As a ToC their reliability and customer satisfaction is as good
>as it gets for a busy commuter service.

That's somewhat disjoint from fleecing tourists. Their opinions won't
ever show up in such surveys.
--
Roland Perry

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>> that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>>> Liverpool St, and are then fined ｣100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>>> The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>>> lot of people you might not notice them.
>>
>> It’s a perfect example of the often passenger-hostile organisation of
>> public transport in the UK.
>>
>> It seems totally reasonable to expect that the much-publicised and
>> encouraged London fare system (or whatever you might want to call it) would
>> actually cover London’s named airports.
>>
>> That in 2023, it still doesn’t, is obviously ludicrous and more than a
>> little depressing.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>>
>>> My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>>> at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>>> ask someone for help and then what? Pay ｣100 then? Pay whatever
>>> the fare is?
>>
>> A few years ago at Harpenden I encountered a whole team of fare inspectors
>> at the exit on a Sunday morning.
>>
>> Not usually known as peak time, I enquired what they were doing there on
>> mass, and was told there was a fun run event going on nearby, and the train
>> company anticipated lots of people arriving. If you’re wondering why that
>> would necessitate a whole team of revenue protectors, it soon became
>> obvious.
>>
>> When a train arrived from London and masses of runner-types swamped the
>> exit, the team of staff swung efficiently into action - gleefully doling
>> out penalty fares to everyone who was attempting to use Oyster, no doubt in
>> addition to the unresolved journeys they would be charged.
>>
>> They even had someone cajoling the unfortunates into a long orderly queue
>> to receive their penalty fare.
>>
>> Lew
>
> Have you forgotten? This is rip-off Britain.
> Anyone who makes a simple mistake with our crazy ticketing system is
> treated as a criminal to be penalised.
>
>
Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside to buy a
ticket. I think the idea is to generate sufficient inconvenience to
encourage people to buy tickets before travelling. There was quite a queue
last time I was there. I’m not quite sure how they deal with passengers
mid-declaring where they started their trip. Mind you, every train I’ve
been on for more than a few minutes has had an on board ticket
checker/seller.

In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>>> that Oyster and contactless are not valid to Stansted, tap in at
>>>> Liverpool St, and are then fined ?100 for fare dodging when gripped.
>>>> The signs are on the floor at the fare gates so I suppose if there's a
>>>> lot of people you might not notice them.
>>>
>>> It’s a perfect example of the often passenger-hostile organisation of
>>> public transport in the UK.
>>>
>>> It seems totally reasonable to expect that the much-publicised and
>>> encouraged London fare system (or whatever you might want to call it) would
>>> actually cover London’s named airports.
>>>
>>> That in 2023, it still doesn’t, is obviously ludicrous and more than a
>>> little depressing.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>> My question is what happens if you don't get gripped but do get off
>>>> at the airport. You can't tap on the gates, so I suppose people
>>>> ask someone for help and then what? Pay ?100 then? Pay whatever
>>>> the fare is?
>>>
>>> A few years ago at Harpenden I encountered a whole team of fare inspectors
>>> at the exit on a Sunday morning.
>>>
>>> Not usually known as peak time, I enquired what they were doing there on
>>> mass, and was told there was a fun run event going on nearby, and the train
>>> company anticipated lots of people arriving. If you’re wondering why that
>>> would necessitate a whole team of revenue protectors, it soon became
>>> obvious.
>>>
>>> When a train arrived from London and masses of runner-types swamped the
>>> exit, the team of staff swung efficiently into action - gleefully doling
>>> out penalty fares to everyone who was attempting to use Oyster, no doubt in
>>> addition to the unresolved journeys they would be charged.
>>>
>>> They even had someone cajoling the unfortunates into a long orderly queue
>>> to receive their penalty fare.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>
>> Have you forgotten? This is rip-off Britain.
>> Anyone who makes a simple mistake with our crazy ticketing system is
>> treated as a criminal to be penalised.
>>
>>
>Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
>Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside

The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you have a
ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
minutes after that.

>to buy a ticket. I think the idea is to generate sufficient
>inconvenience to encourage people to buy tickets before travelling.
>There was quite a queue last time I was there. I’m not quite sure how
>they deal with passengers mid-declaring where they started their trip.
>Mind you, every train I’ve been on for more than a few minutes has
>had an on board ticket checker/seller.

Yes, Scotrail are good at that. I don't know if Stansted Express ever
had on-board grippers, certainly not in living memory.

When it was branded "Cambridge Cruiser" those non-stop trains from Kings
Cross to Cambridge used to have an on-board gripper [with a very boring
job, ten minutes of activity on often lightly loaded 4-car EMUs, then
over half an hour of nothing]. I'm not sure they survived the end of the
WAGN franchise.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying

>>>
>>>
>>Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
>>Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside
>
>The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you have a
>ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
>you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
>minutes after that.
>

There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.

>>to buy a ticket. I think the idea is to generate sufficient
>>inconvenience to encourage people to buy tickets before travelling.
>>There was quite a queue last time I was there. I’m not quite sure how
>>they deal with passengers mid-declaring where they started their trip.
>>Mind you, every train I’ve been on for more than a few minutes has
>>had an on board ticket checker/seller.
>
>Yes, Scotrail are good at that. I don't know if Stansted Express ever
>had on-board grippers, certainly not in living memory.
>
Very, very rare. Used to be universal at one time, with a willingness
to sell a ticket without penalty. But then both Stansted and Liverpool
St. were open stations.

>When it was branded "Cambridge Cruiser" those non-stop trains from Kings
>Cross to Cambridge used to have an on-board gripper [with a very boring
>job, ten minutes of activity on often lightly loaded 4-car EMUs, then
>over half an hour of nothing]. I'm not sure they survived the end of the
>WAGN franchise.

In message <5mmlni1v31cf8ovtm26q0fc46oiumivbhi@4ax.com>, at 10:39:27 on
Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>
>>>Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
>>>Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside
>>
>>The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you have a
>>ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
>>you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
>>minutes after that.
>
>There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.

I'm so sure about that. When I was there they seemed to be barriered-off
with security people in attendance.

>>>to buy a ticket. I think the idea is to generate sufficient
>>>inconvenience to encourage people to buy tickets before travelling.
>>>There was quite a queue last time I was there. I’m not quite sure how
>>>they deal with passengers mis(sic)-declaring where they started their
>>>trip. Mind you, every train

Every train where?

>>>I’ve been on for more than a few minutes has had an on board ticket
>>>checker/seller.

When I arrived having failed to buy a ticket at a Fen Line station
because the machine was broken *again* (or it could be that it hadn't
been fixed since I reported it a few weeks earlier, I have no way of
telling) I truthfully said which station.

We are told that news of such 'dry' stations is passed around to
grippers and gate staff who might need to know, but this seems to be a
myth.

There were no ticket seller/checkers on the trains I used to get to the
airport, and that's the normal situation (unless using XC, which in the
last two instances I didn't, because there's a 2hr gap in their
timetable, with the train from Birmingham terminating at Cambridge
instead; and anecdotally they never patrol the train between Ely and
Cambridge anyway).
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:18:54 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <5mmlni1v31cf8ovtm26q0fc46oiumivbhi@4ax.com>, at 10:39:27 on
>Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>
>>>>Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
>>>>Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside
>>>
>>>The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you have a
>>>ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
>>>you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
>>>minutes after that.
>>
>>There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.
>
>I'm so sure about that. When I was there they seemed to be barriered-off
>with security people in attendance.
>
You can get, for example, to one of the lift banks.
>
>We are told that news of such 'dry' stations is passed around to
>grippers and gate staff who might need to know, but this seems to be a
>myth.
>
>There were no ticket seller/checkers on the trains I used to get to the
>airport, and that's the normal situation (unless using XC, which in the
>last two instances I didn't, because there's a 2hr gap in their
>timetable, with the train from Birmingham terminating at Cambridge
>instead; and anecdotally they never patrol the train between Ely and
>Cambridge anyway).

When I use the XC there's often a check between Stansted and Cambridge
but rarely between there and Ely.

In message <v3aonilb93frfqv8689efjb3sp3095t04h@4ax.com>, at 10:22:11 on
Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:18:54 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <5mmlni1v31cf8ovtm26q0fc46oiumivbhi@4ax.com>, at 10:39:27 on
>>Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous discussion of
>>>>>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs saying
>>>
>>>>>Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow Queen
>>>>>Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside
>>>>
>>>>The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you have a
>>>>ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
>>>>you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
>>>>minutes after that.
>>>
>>>There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.
>>
>>I'm so sure about that. When I was there they seemed to be barriered-off
>>with security people in attendance.
>>
>You can get, for example, to one of the lift banks.

If you say so. I was there that day, you weren't.

>>We are told that news of such 'dry' stations is passed around to
>>grippers and gate staff who might need to know, but this seems to be a
>>myth.
>>
>>There were no ticket seller/checkers on the trains I used to get to the
>>airport, and that's the normal situation (unless using XC, which in the
>>last two instances I didn't, because there's a 2hr gap in their
>>timetable, with the train from Birmingham terminating at Cambridge
>>instead; and anecdotally they never patrol the train between Ely and
>>Cambridge anyway).
>
>When I use the XC there's often a check between Stansted and Cambridge
>but rarely between there and Ely.

I've never ever seen them check tickets Ely<>Cambridge, not least
because the trains are usually full and standing.

And at the time of day I flew out, and flew back, XC helpfully have a
2tph service to Stansted. "You are the tenth person we've had to tell
today there's no demand".

Usually the alternative is to go via Bishops Stortford, rather than wait
for one of the rare Norwich-Cambridge-Stansted GA trains
--
Roland Perry

On 15/12/2023 14:20, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <v3aonilb93frfqv8689efjb3sp3095t04h@4ax.com>, at 10:22:11 on
> Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:18:54 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <5mmlni1v31cf8ovtm26q0fc46oiumivbhi@4ax.com>, at 10:39:27 on
>>> Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous
>>>>>>>>> discussion of
>>>>>>>>> reports that many people on the Stansted Express miss the signs
>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>
>>>>>> Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at Glasgow
>>>>>> Queen
>>>>>> Street without a ticket you have to join a very slow queue airside
>>>>>
>>>>> The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you
>>>>> have a
>>>>> ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the platform if
>>>>> you were at the back of the queue. And the next train arrives five
>>>>> minutes after that.
>>>>
>>>> There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.
>>>
>>> I'm so sure about that. When I was there they seemed to be barriered-off
>>> with security people in attendance.
>>>
>> You can get, for example, to one of the lift banks.
>
> If you say so. I was there that day, you weren't.
>
>>> We are told that news of such 'dry' stations is passed around to
>>> grippers and gate staff who might need to know, but this seems to be a
>>> myth.
>>>
>>> There were no ticket seller/checkers on the trains I used to get to the
>>> airport, and that's the normal situation (unless using XC, which in the
>>> last two instances I didn't, because there's a 2hr gap in their
>>> timetable, with the train from Birmingham terminating at Cambridge
>>> instead; and anecdotally they never patrol the train between Ely and
>>> Cambridge anyway).
>>
>> When I use the XC there's often a check between Stansted and Cambridge
>> but rarely between there and Ely.
>
> I've never ever seen them check tickets Ely<>Cambridge, not least
> because the trains are usually full and standing.
>
> And at the time of day I flew out, and flew back, XC helpfully have a
> 2tph service to Stansted. "You are the tenth person we've had to tell
> today there's no demand".
>
> Usually the alternative is to go via Bishops Stortford, rather than wait
> for one of the rare Norwich-Cambridge-Stansted GA trains

That's an hourly service these days so not rare at all.

Look at a timetable for about 50 years ago to see how rare the service
was between Cambridge and Norwich then,

In message <ulhpcu$1ufan$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:26 on Fri, 15 Dec
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 15/12/2023 14:20, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <v3aonilb93frfqv8689efjb3sp3095t04h@4ax.com>, at 10:22:11
>>on Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:18:54 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <5mmlni1v31cf8ovtm26q0fc46oiumivbhi@4ax.com>, at 10:39:27 on
>>>> Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:41:57 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <ulcrfi$uofa$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:00:19 on Wed, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 13/12/2023 08:44, Lew1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Over in another newsgroup there's been a, um, vigirous
>>>>>>>>>>discussion of reports that many people on the Stansted
>>>>>>>>>>Express miss the signs saying
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scotrail seem to have a fairer solution. If you arrive at
>>>>>>>Glasgow Queen Street without a ticket you have to join a very
>>>>>>>slow queue airside
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The manual checking at Stansted is a very slow queue, even if you
>>>>>>have a ticket. When I was there, perhaps ten minutes to leave the
>>>>>>platform if you were at the back of the queue. And the next train
>>>>>>arrives five minutes after that.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are far faster ways to get out, but I agree that isn't obvious.
>>>>
>>>> I'm so sure about that. When I was there they seemed to be barriered-off
>>>> with security people in attendance.
>>>>
>>> You can get, for example, to one of the lift banks.
>> If you say so. I was there that day, you weren't.
>>
>>>> We are told that news of such 'dry' stations is passed around to
>>>> grippers and gate staff who might need to know, but this seems to be a
>>>> myth.
>>>>
>>>> There were no ticket seller/checkers on the trains I used to get to the
>>>> airport, and that's the normal situation (unless using XC, which in the
>>>> last two instances I didn't, because there's a 2hr gap in their
>>>> timetable, with the train from Birmingham terminating at Cambridge
>>>> instead; and anecdotally they never patrol the train between Ely and
>>>> Cambridge anyway).
>>>
>>> When I use the XC there's often a check between Stansted and Cambridge
>>> but rarely between there and Ely.

>> I've never ever seen them check tickets Ely<>Cambridge, not least
>>because the trains are usually full and standing.

>> And at the time of day I flew out, and flew back, XC helpfully have
>>a 2tph service to Stansted. "You are the tenth person we've had to
>>tell today there's no demand".

>> Usually the alternative is to go via Bishops Stortford, rather than
>>wait for one of the rare Norwich-Cambridge-Stansted GA trains
>
>That's an hourly service these days so not rare at all.

Sadly not, only 9 trains a day (in effect just off-peak during the day).

>Look at a timetable for about 50 years ago to see how rare the service
>was between Cambridge and Norwich then,

The golden age which never existed. Sorry to disappoint Beeching-haters.
--
Roland Perry