https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-target-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html

I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
government of course.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-target-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>
> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
> government of course.
>

That reminds me, I think GBRf is now the biggest UK freight operator. It
keeps growing as DBC UK shrinks, and I believe they've just swapped places.

In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>
>I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>government of course.

In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>
>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>> government of course.
>
> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!

Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
Or perhaps it does?
Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
to be expensive, inflexible and slow.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>
>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>> government of course.
>>
>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>
>Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>Or perhaps it does?
>Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>to be expensive, inflexible and slow.

On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway unless its
a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>
>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>> government of course.
>>
>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>
>Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>Or perhaps it does?
>Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>to be expensive, inflexible and slow.

Yes, I think freight is constrained by lack of demand for what's on offer, rather than lack of capacity. That's why DBC
is shrinking, reducing both its driver numbers and loco fleets.

On 30/12/2023 09:49, Tweed wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>
>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>> government of course.
>>
>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>
> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
> Or perhaps it does?
> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>

Some freight does move at night but engineering work also needs to be
undertaken at the same time.

In message <umop3n$1830c$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:43 on Sat, 30 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>
>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>> government of course.
>>
>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>
>Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>Or perhaps it does?

If only there were sites where you could look at realtime train
movements.

>Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?

Depending on the route they can already keep up. But it's not so much
congestion *on the line*, it's at pinch points where they often have to
sit for extended periods waiting for any gap between the other trains.

>However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>to be expensive, inflexible and slow.

The main issue is inland railheads, where containers can be unloaded and
then put on HGVs to complete their journey. Of course, if such railheads
are further from the destinations than the ports are, it makes no sense
for them ever to be on a train.
--
Roland Perry

On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>
>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>> government of course.
>>>
>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>
>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>> Or perhaps it does?
>> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>
> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway unless its
> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?
>

Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.

Here's an example of a down train passing Eastleigh:
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/66534_on_container_train.jpg>

Imagine that lot as individual lorry-loads struggling up and down the
A34 round Oxford.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>> government of course.
>>>>
>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>
>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>
>>> Or perhaps it does?
>>> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>>> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>>> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>>> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>
>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway unless its
>
>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?
>>
>
>Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.

Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be loaded onto
a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?

In message <umpnr3$1c4o9$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:34:11 on Sat, 30 Dec
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight
>>>>move at night?
>>
>>>> Or perhaps it does?
>>>> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>>>> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>>>> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>>>> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>>
>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway
>>>unless its
>>
>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?
>>>
>>
>>Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>>leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>>40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>
>Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
>waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be loaded onto
>a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
>you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?

Mainly the cost, but also trying to find that particular container
amongst a pile of several thousand others.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <umpnr3$1c4o9$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:34:11 on Sat, 30 Dec
> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight
>>>>> move at night?
>>>
>>>>> Or perhaps it does?
>>>>> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>>>>> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>>>>> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>>>>> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>>>
>>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway
>>>> unless its
>>>
>>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>>> leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>>> 40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>>
>> Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
>> waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be loaded onto
>> a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
>> you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?
>
> Mainly the cost, but also trying to find that particular container
> amongst a pile of several thousand others.

Container ports are very good at locating containers.

In message <umpqbe$1cggt$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:17:02 on Sat, 30 Dec
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <umpnr3$1c4o9$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:34:11 on Sat, 30 Dec
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight
>>>>>> move at night?
>>>>
>>>>>> Or perhaps it does? Would freight capacity issues be aided by
>>>>>>having freight trains that could run faster and therefore fit in
>>>>>>with passenger services more easily? However, I suspect the real
>>>>>>issue is that the freight industry finds rail to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>>>>
>>>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway
>>>>> unless its
>>>>
>>>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to
>>>>>the other?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>>>> leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>>>> 40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>>>
>>> Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
>>> waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be
>>>loaded onto
>>> a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
>>> you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?
>>
>> Mainly the cost, but also trying to find that particular container
>> amongst a pile of several thousand others.
>
>Container ports are very good at locating containers.

They might be good at knowing where they are, but if under a pile of ten
others awaiting being loaded onto a train they can't necessarily
retrieve them immediately. Then there's changing the paperwork to say it
was collected rather than delivered.

--
Roland Perry

On 30/12/2023 19:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>
> They might be good at knowing where they are, but if under a pile of ten
> others awaiting being loaded onto a train they can't necessarily
> retrieve them immediately. Then there's changing the paperwork to say it
> was collected rather than delivered.

It is rather more involved than just unloading them and stacking them
up. All of the containers on a ship will be assigned where they are to
go, whether to be stored at the port, loaded onto a train, or loaded
direct onto a lorry. Don't think they are just put anywhere, they are
all computer controlled, and placed in order of despatch, so it will be
very unlikely for a lorry to turn up and find it is 'under a pile of 10
others'.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 28/12/2023 12:00, Coffee wrote:
> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-target-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>
> I don't find this at all ambitious...  Unless you're a British
> government of course.

Well, the EMU units converted to carry a daily parcel service are doing
well, and the Management have said they want to expand it, so that is
not container traffic, and a new market for the railways.(ok, its an old
market, that BR/NR/etc have been out of for around 40 years now)

I do find it hard to see how they are making money, as, from what I've
read, the service only currently runs one way, Birm. Intl to Mossend
iirc. then returns empty stock.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 31/12/23 06:51, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 30/12/2023 19:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>>
Container ports have spent years designing and implementing tracking and
scheduling systems. They are very good at it these days.
Every container has a path through the system plotted before it even
comes off the ship.

What may throw them is if you ring up as the ship is being unloaded and
say 'I'm sending a truck to the port, don't put it on the train' - and
your container is already off the ship and at the bottom of the stack
waiting for loading onto the train.
But if you had booked a pickup before they unloaded, the system would
have allocated your truck a pickup slot and the system will have your
container ready.
They have spent $$$$$ on these systems (And also $$$$ on automation -
more than port has robot straddle carriers these days - from ship to
truck with no human plant operators.)

In message <umpscs$1cluk$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:56 on Sat, 30 Dec
2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>On 30/12/2023 19:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>> They might be good at knowing where they are, but if under a pile of
>>ten others awaiting being loaded onto a train they can't necessarily
>>retrieve them immediately. Then there's changing the paperwork to say
>>it was collected rather than delivered.
>
>It is rather more involved than just unloading them and stacking them
>up. All of the containers on a ship will be assigned where they are to
>go, whether to be stored at the port, loaded onto a train, or loaded
>direct onto a lorry. Don't think they are just put anywhere, they are
>all computer controlled, and placed in order of despatch, so it will be
>very unlikely for a lorry to turn up and find it is 'under a pile of 10
>others'.

It will be, if Plan A was for it to be put on a train next week, but
the recipient has tried to jump the queue by sending an HGV two hundred
miles across the country to grab it instead.
--
Roland Perry

In message <umq0nv$1d4bm$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:06:07 on Sun, 31 Dec
2023, Matthew Geier <matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au> remarked:
>On 31/12/23 06:51, Alan Lee wrote:
>> On 30/12/2023 19:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>>>
>Container ports have spent years designing and implementing tracking
>and scheduling systems. They are very good at it these days.
>Every container has a path through the system plotted before it even
>comes off the ship.
>
>What may throw them is if you ring up as the ship is being unloaded and
>say 'I'm sending a truck to the port, don't put it on the train' - and
>your container is already off the ship and at the bottom of the stack
>waiting for loading onto the train.

At last, someone who hasn't "lost the plot"!
--
Roland Perry

On 30/12/2023 18:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight move at night?
>>
>>>> Or perhaps it does?
>>>> Would freight capacity issues be aided by having freight trains that could
>>>> run faster and therefore fit in with passenger services more easily?
>>>> However, I suspect the real issue is that the freight industry finds rail
>>>> to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>>
>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway unless its
>>
>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to the other?
>>>
>>
>> Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>> leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>> 40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>
> Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
> waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be loaded onto
> a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
> you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?
>
>

I gather trains get priority at the terminal so Terry Trucker would have
to wait until the train has loaded before queuing up with the other 50
vehicles to collect his container. Then get stuck in traffic leaving the
port, then negotiating the M271/M27/M3 junction complex, then getting
stuck on the A34 trying to climb up and down the hills on the way to
Oxford and so on and so forth.

The container trains on that route are pretty reliable, no OLE to
collapse at embarrassing moments and the rebuilding of the junction with
the GWML at Reading has made that former bottleneck very smooth.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 30/12/2023 21:06, Matthew Geier wrote:
> On 31/12/23 06:51, Alan Lee wrote:
>> On 30/12/2023 19:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>>>
> Container ports have spent years designing and implementing tracking and
> scheduling systems. They are very good at it these days.
> Every container has a path through the system plotted before it even
> comes off the ship.

Often before it is loaded on the ship in the first place!

>
> What may throw them is if you ring up as the ship is being unloaded and
> say 'I'm sending a truck to the port, don't put it on the train' - and
> your container is already off the ship and at the bottom of the stack
> waiting for loading onto the train.
> But if you had booked a pickup before they unloaded, the system would
> have allocated your truck a pickup slot and the system will have your
> container ready.
> They have spent $$$$$ on these systems (And also $$$$ on automation -
> more than port has robot straddle carriers these days - from ship to
> truck with no human plant operators.)
>
>
>
>

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 19:40:51 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <umpqbe$1cggt$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:17:02 on Sat, 30 Dec
>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <umpnr3$1c4o9$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:34:11 on Sat, 30 Dec
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-government-ta
>>>>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What we really
>>>>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic lines and
>>>>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight
>>>>>>> move at night?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or perhaps it does? Would freight capacity issues be aided by
>>>>>>>having freight trains that could run faster and therefore fit in
>>>>>>>with passenger services more easily? However, I suspect the real
>>>>>>>issue is that the freight industry finds rail to be expensive, inflexible and slow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway
>>>>>> unless its
>>>>>
>>>>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to
>>>>>>the other?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>>>>> leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>>>>> 40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>>>>
>>>> Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
>>>> waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be
>>>>loaded onto
>>>> a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
>>>> you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?
>>>
>>> Mainly the cost, but also trying to find that particular container
>>> amongst a pile of several thousand others.
>>
>>Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>
>They might be good at knowing where they are, but if under a pile of ten
>others awaiting being loaded onto a train they can't necessarily
>retrieve them immediately. Then there's changing the paperwork to say it
>was collected rather than delivered.
>
Same paperwork. Just allocate a delivery point code to those
collecting.

In message <ikb9pi97ln68hs5vuoh7tvjvkham8ucoet@4ax.com>, at 00:48:23 on
Wed, 3 Jan 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 19:40:51 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <umpqbe$1cggt$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:17:02 on Sat, 30 Dec
>>2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <umpnr3$1c4o9$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:34:11 on Sat, 30 Dec
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:09:10 +0000
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/12/2023 09:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:49:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <umjo0j$cb0v$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:18 on Thu, 28 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/freightliner-welcomes-gove
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> rget-of-75-growth-of-rail-freight.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't find this at all ambitious... Unless you're a British
>>>>>>>>>> government of course.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In practice growth will only come from more container trains, and they
>>>>>>>>> are constrained by many pinch-points across the country. What
>>>>>>>>>we really
>>>>>>>>> need is a new railway to take passenger trains off the classic
>>>>>>>>>lines and
>>>>>>>>> free up freight paths. Oh Wait!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apart from the issue of engineering work, why can’t freight
>>>>>>>> move at night?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or perhaps it does? Would freight capacity issues be aided by
>>>>>>>>having freight trains that could run faster and therefore fit in
>>>>>>>>with passenger services more easily? However, I suspect the real
>>>>>>>>issue is that the freight industry finds rail to be expensive,
>>>>>>>>inflexible and slow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On our small island does railfreight really make much sense anyway
>>>>>>> unless its
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a large container train travelling from one end of the country to
>>>>>>>the other?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the number and length of container trains entering and
>>>>>> leaving the terminal at Southampton every day and converting that into
>>>>>> 40-60 times as many lorry loads on the roads, yes it is worth it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its certainly worth it from an enviromental POV but if you're a company
>>>>> waiting on some just in time delivery would you wait for it to be
>>>>>loaded onto
>>>>> a train and then offloaded onto a lorry at daventry or wherever, or would
>>>>> you just send Terry Trucker down to southhampton and get it loaded direct?
>>>>
>>>> Mainly the cost, but also trying to find that particular container
>>>> amongst a pile of several thousand others.
>>>
>>>Container ports are very good at locating containers.
>>
>>They might be good at knowing where they are, but if under a pile of ten
>>others awaiting being loaded onto a train they can't necessarily
>>retrieve them immediately. Then there's changing the paperwork to say it
>>was collected rather than delivered.
>>
>Same paperwork. Just allocate a delivery point code to those
>collecting.

Altered paperwork, which takes time, and then you have to find a crane
driver to retrieve the container from the bottom of the pile, which
takes new paperwork, and is unlikely to be able to be done same day.
--
Roland Perry