"Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uotnak$2aj36$1@dont-email.me...
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> According to NY <me@privacy.net>:
>>> Which Tom Lehrer song refers to a piano having 88 keys? Must be one of
>>> the ones I'm not familiar with.
>>
>> In the intro to The Folk Song Army, he asks the audience to imagine
>> that lacking a folk instrument, he is playing an 88-string guitar.
>>
>> https://tomlehrersongs.com/the-folk-song-army/
>
> Which is only slightly odd because a piano has many more than 88 strings!

Yes, three strings on the higher notes, two on the middle/lower octaves and
one great fat one for each of the lowest notes. Maybe a total of very
roughly 2.5x 88 strings allowing for the mix of 2- and 3-string notes.

I wondered about a 12-string guitar. Seems they are normally tuned so the
lower strings are the fundamental and a octave below, and the upper strings
are in unison - so not a wider range of notes but a richer sound. And chords
require pairs of strings to be stopped at the same fret.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uotnak$2aj36$1@dont-email.me...
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> According to NY <me@privacy.net>:
>>>> Which Tom Lehrer song refers to a piano having 88 keys? Must be one of
>>>> the ones I'm not familiar with.
>>>
>>> In the intro to The Folk Song Army, he asks the audience to imagine
>>> that lacking a folk instrument, he is playing an 88-string guitar.
>>>
>>> https://tomlehrersongs.com/the-folk-song-army/
>>
>> Which is only slightly odd because a piano has many more than 88 strings!
>
> Yes, three strings on the higher notes, two on the middle/lower octaves and
> one great fat one for each of the lowest notes. Maybe a total of very
> roughly 2.5x 88 strings allowing for the mix of 2- and 3-string notes.
>
> I wondered about a 12-string guitar. Seems they are normally tuned so the
> lower strings are the fundamental and a octave below, and the upper strings
> are in unison - so not a wider range of notes but a richer sound. And chords
> require pairs of strings to be stopped at the same fret.

Exactly so. The top two courses, the thinnest strings, are each tuned in
unison because it’s practically impossible to make a string thin enough and
strong enough to sound an octave higher than the usual ones, which is what
happens on the other 4 courses. Mandolins are tuned with pairs of strings
in unison; other instruments - lutes, tiples, for example - have other
combinations of multistring courses.

Keith Richards likes playing 5 string guitars, and bass guitars commonly
come in 4, 5, 6 and occasionally 7 string versions, and I’ve also come
across 3 and 1 string versions, but they’re pretty much a novelty.

Sam (pub bore)

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 25/01/2024 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>> I wondered about a 12-string guitar. Seems they are normally tuned so the
>> lower strings are the fundamental and a octave below, and the upper strings
>> are in unison - so not a wider range of notes but a richer sound. And chords
>> require pairs of strings to be stopped at the same fret.
>
> Exactly so. The top two courses, the thinnest strings, are each tuned in
> unison because it’s practically impossible to make a string thin enough and
> strong enough to sound an octave higher than the usual ones, which is what
> happens on the other 4 courses.

Apologies. The source that I found simply said that the lower courses
were fundamental and an octave away from this - I assumed that the other
string was an octave lower rather than an octave higher.

As a matter of interest, how are the pairs of strings played so they
sound simultaneously? A rapidly strummed chord would be fine, but if
individual notes are sounded (fingerstyle or plectrum) they need to be
played in such a way that both strings are plucked without accidentally
touching one of the strings on an adjacent course. Or is the spacing
between pairs of strings considerably smaller than between one course
and the next, to minimise the chance of this?

I suppose with a plectrum (or very precise fingers!) the player has the
option of only sounding one string of the pair if he wants to.

On 25/01/2024 22:23, NY wrote:
> On 25/01/2024 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> I wondered about a 12-string guitar. Seems they are normally tuned so
>>> the
>>> lower strings are the fundamental and a octave below, and the upper
>>> strings
>>> are in unison - so not a wider range of notes but a richer sound. And
>>> chords
>>> require pairs of strings to be stopped at the same fret.
>>
>> Exactly so.  The top two courses, the thinnest strings, are each tuned in
>> unison because it’s practically impossible to make a string thin
>> enough and
>> strong enough to sound an octave higher than the usual ones, which is
>> what
>> happens on the other 4 courses.
>
> Apologies. The source that I found simply said that the lower courses
> were fundamental and an octave away from this - I assumed that the other
> string was an octave lower rather than an octave higher.
>
> As a matter of interest, how are the pairs of strings played so they
> sound simultaneously? A rapidly strummed chord would be fine, but if
> individual notes are sounded (fingerstyle or plectrum) they need to be
> played in such a way that both strings are plucked without accidentally
> touching one of the strings on an adjacent course. Or is the spacing
> between pairs of strings considerably smaller than between one course
> and the next, to minimise the chance of this?
>
> I suppose with a plectrum (or very precise fingers!) the player has the
> option of only sounding one string of the pair if he wants to.

They are strung in pairs, many years ago I had a 12 string guitar, hard
work after a normal guitar. You treat each pair as a single string for
fingering. Takes quite a bit of practice using a plectrum.

|| || || || || ||

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/01/2024 22:23, NY wrote:
>> On 25/01/2024 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> I wondered about a 12-string guitar. Seems they are normally tuned so
>>>> the
>>>> lower strings are the fundamental and a octave below, and the upper
>>>> strings
>>>> are in unison - so not a wider range of notes but a richer sound. And
>>>> chords
>>>> require pairs of strings to be stopped at the same fret.
>>>
>>> Exactly so.  The top two courses, the thinnest strings, are each tuned in
>>> unison because it’s practically impossible to make a string thin
>>> enough and
>>> strong enough to sound an octave higher than the usual ones, which is
>>> what
>>> happens on the other 4 courses.
>>
>> Apologies. The source that I found simply said that the lower courses
>> were fundamental and an octave away from this - I assumed that the other
>> string was an octave lower rather than an octave higher.
>>
>> As a matter of interest, how are the pairs of strings played so they
>> sound simultaneously? A rapidly strummed chord would be fine, but if
>> individual notes are sounded (fingerstyle or plectrum) they need to be
>> played in such a way that both strings are plucked without accidentally
>> touching one of the strings on an adjacent course. Or is the spacing
>> between pairs of strings considerably smaller than between one course
>> and the next, to minimise the chance of this?
>>
>> I suppose with a plectrum (or very precise fingers!) the player has the
>> option of only sounding one string of the pair if he wants to.
>
> They are strung in pairs, many years ago I had a 12 string guitar, hard
> work after a normal guitar. You treat each pair as a single string for
> fingering. Takes quite a bit of practice using a plectrum.
>
> || || || || || ||
>

As Graeme says they’re strung in pairs - here’s a picture:

<https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/qaqXBnqX6H84w4BVVMXzpZ.jpg>

Normally you treat each pair exactly the same way as a single string. For
strumming there’s no difference; for picking, either with fingers or a
plectrum, it takes a slight change of technique but not much. You’d have
to be really gentle to pick one string rather than both in a course - some
people might manage it but it’s well beyond my capabilities.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 26/01/2024 10:32, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> They are strung in pairs, many years ago I had a 12 string guitar, hard
>> work after a normal guitar. You treat each pair as a single string for
>> fingering. Takes quite a bit of practice using a plectrum.
>>
>> || || || || || ||
>>
> As Graeme says they’re strung in pairs - here’s a picture:
>
> <https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/qaqXBnqX6H84w4BVVMXzpZ.jpg>
>

Ta that's a lot clearer than my diagram.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/01/2024 10:32, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> They are strung in pairs, many years ago I had a 12 string guitar, hard
>>> work after a normal guitar. You treat each pair as a single string for
>>> fingering. Takes quite a bit of practice using a plectrum.
>>>
>>> || || || || || ||
>>>
>> As Graeme says they’re strung in pairs - here’s a picture:
>>
>> <https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/qaqXBnqX6H84w4BVVMXzpZ.jpg>
>>
>
> Ta that's a lot clearer than my diagram.

I thought your diagram was pretty good!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Op 20-1-2024 om 2:11 schreef Recliner:
> Here's another quiz. It's supposed to calculate your education level, but
> it's really just general knowledge, again with a definite US bias:
>
> https://www.exploredplanet.com/trending/quiz-can-we-guess-your-education-level/
>
> I managed 51/60.
>

40 out of 60

Only knowledge questions, nothing logical or mathematical, except for
one interest question.
Some typical USA questions, some English language questions.

Really?
"Who is the singer of The Rolling Stones" defines my education level ????

Ans "What is the capitol of Texas" is not a question for Europeans.
(I knew the correct answer, but most Europeans do not)

Rink