<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>

I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
--
Roland Perry

On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>
> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?

Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>

Yup, it's as PC as I feared. I hope that there's an outcry against them.

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>
>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>
> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>

At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
trains being AC-DC,
wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?

GH

"Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>
>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>
>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>
>
> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
> trains being AC-DC,
> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?

Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
Windrush line.

And at least they haven't (yet) introduced a rainbow-coloured LGBT line.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>
>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>>
>>
>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
>> trains being AC-DC,
>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>
> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
> Windrush line.
>
> And at least they haven't (yet) introduced a rainbow-coloured LGBT line.
>

Mr Geezer points out that: The Mildmay line goes nowhere near the Mildmay
Hospital. The Windrush line passes within 150m (and the Weaver line within
500m).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGXm2CzXUAAurM9?format=jpg&name=medium

On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?

Not as if there is not anything more important to spend £6.3 million on.

How long has the Mayor promoted themself on the map?

All seems rather 'woke'.

On 15/02/2024 11:37, NY wrote:
>
> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point:
> if the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good
> for the Windrush line.
>
> And at least they haven't (yet) introduced a rainbow-coloured LGBT line.

I suppose the naming after a hospital that no one has heard of but had a
link to AIDS will satisfy that group.

On 15/02/2024 12:57, JMB99 wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>
>
>
> Not as if there is not anything more important to spend £6.3 million on.
>
> How long has the Mayor promoted themself on the map?
>
> All seems rather 'woke'.

If non-white, non-straight, non-male people or institutions have missed
out in the past on recognition of this form, then it is only fair that
there is a bit of positive discrimination to redress the balance.

But I get the impression that we have gone beyond that point and that
the only way to be recognised nowadays is to be non-white, non-straight,
non-male - and that all others need not apply. And if anyone in your
past had any links with slavery or purloining of Elgin Marbles etc, then
you will be eradicated from history as a un-person.

Better to say "this person did many great things but had links with a
practice which we (maybe rightly) nowadays regard as abhorrent" than to
remove all trace of them. History, even history that we are now
embarrassed about, did happen - learn from it so we don't do it again.

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 12:57, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not as if there is not anything more important to spend £6.3 million on.
>>
>> How long has the Mayor promoted themself on the map?
>>
>> All seems rather 'woke'.
>
> If non-white, non-straight, non-male people or institutions have missed
> out in the past on recognition of this form, then it is only fair that
> there is a bit of positive discrimination to redress the balance.
>
> But I get the impression that we have gone beyond that point and that
> the only way to be recognised nowadays is to be non-white, non-straight,
> non-male - and that all others need not apply. And if anyone in your
> past had any links with slavery or purloining of Elgin Marbles etc, then
> you will be eradicated from history as a un-person.
>
> Better to say "this person did many great things but had links with a
> practice which we (maybe rightly) nowadays regard as abhorrent" than to
> remove all trace of them. History, even history that we are now
> embarrassed about, did happen - learn from it so we don't do it again.
>

Perhaps we ought to have the Wronged Sub-Postmasters line.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>
>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>>
>>
>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
>> trains being AC-DC,
>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>
> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
> Windrush line.
>

The other colours are already used in solid line form on the other
Underground lines so using Black in the same manner as those on the other
Overground lines would have been possible in that respect,
must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.

GH

On 15/02/2024 13:31, Marland wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>>
>>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>>
>>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
>>> trains being AC-DC,
>>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>>
>> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
>> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
>> Windrush line.
>
> The other colours are already used in solid line form on the other
> Underground lines so using Black in the same manner as those on the other
> Overground lines would have been possible in that respect,
> must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.

Hollow black lines are already used for National Rail lines on some
versions of maps such as London Connections.

On 15/02/2024 13:31, Marland wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>>
>>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
>>> trains being AC-DC,
>>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>>
>> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
>> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
>> Windrush line.
>>
>
> The other colours are already used in solid line form on the other
> Underground lines so using Black in the same manner as those on the other
> Overground lines would have been possible in that respect,
> must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.

A more legible map appears, appropriately enough, in the Metro.
<https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SEI_191580661-597c.jpg>

The colour contrast doesn't look brilliant, with the two lines in the
east both purply-pink and two hues of blue in the north. Similarly
coloured underground lines such as Victoria and Piccadilly are easily
distinguished, but the thin Overground lines seem more easily confused.

I wonder whether anyone will use the new names. They may catch on only
for those lines which don't have a widely used existing identity.

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 12:57, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not as if there is not anything more important to spend £6.3 million on.
>>
>> How long has the Mayor promoted themself on the map?
>>
>> All seems rather 'woke'.
>
> If non-white, non-straight, non-male people or institutions have missed
> out in the past on recognition of this form, then it is only fair that
> there is a bit of positive discrimination to redress the balance.
>
> But I get the impression that we have gone beyond that point and that
> the only way to be recognised nowadays is to be non-white, non-straight,
> non-male - and that all others need not apply. And if anyone in your
> past had any links with slavery or purloining of Elgin Marbles etc, then
> you will be eradicated from history as a un-person.
>
> Better to say "this person did many great things but had links with a
> practice which we (maybe rightly) nowadays regard as abhorrent" than to
> remove all trace of them. History, even history that we are now
> embarrassed about, did happen - learn from it so we don't do it again.

I don’t think we can say we’re beyond that point - talking to non-white,
non-straight and/or non-male people there’s clearly not equality in many
areas - but I’m with you on the other points.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 15/02/2024 13:49, Certes wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 13:31, Marland wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>>>
>>>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling"
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive  with the
>>>> trains being AC-DC,
>>>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>>>
>>> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good
>>> point: if
>>> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good
>>> for the
>>> Windrush line.
>>>
>>
>> The other colours are already used in solid line form on  the other
>> Underground lines so using Black in the same manner as those on the other
>> Overground lines would have been possible in that respect,
>> must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.
>
> A more legible map appears, appropriately enough, in the Metro.
> <https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SEI_191580661-597c.jpg>
>
> The colour contrast doesn't look brilliant, with the two lines in the
> east both purply-pink and two hues of blue in the north.  Similarly
> coloured underground lines such as Victoria and Piccadilly are easily
> distinguished, but the thin Overground lines seem more easily confused.
>
> I wonder whether anyone will use the new names.  They may catch on only
> for those lines which don't have a widely used existing identity.

How can someone complain that London does not get enough money from
Central Government - and then waste over £6 million on some nonsense
like this?

Surely Labour can find someone better for the next London Mayor election?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 16:11:45 +0000
Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 15/02/2024 13:49, Certes wrote:
>> The colour contrast doesn't look brilliant, with the two lines in the
>> east both purply-pink and two hues of blue in the north.  Similarly
>> coloured underground lines such as Victoria and Piccadilly are easily
>> distinguished, but the thin Overground lines seem more easily confused.
>>
>> I wonder whether anyone will use the new names.  They may catch on only
>> for those lines which don't have a widely used existing identity.
>
>How can someone complain that London does not get enough money from
>Central Government - and then waste over £6 million on some nonsense
>like this?

It is just a bloody farce isn't it, tourists will be pissing themselves
laughing. If it was April 1st I wouldn't have believed it.

>Surely Labour can find someone better for the next London Mayor election?

They'll probably find someone even worse. Student level gesture politics like
this is the order of the day down at Millbank whatever Starmer says.

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 13:31, Marland wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:l36a33F20n7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/02/2024 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uqkguq$376l1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:11:06 on Thu, 15 Feb
>>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if they'll have an auction of the "Wombles" totems?
>>>>>
>>>>> Along with the new names, they have also introduced a new way of
>>>>> regulating the movement of trains - it's called "virtue signalling" ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At least one line satisfies the modern need to be inclusive with the
>>>> trains being AC-DC,
>>>> wouldn’t black be a more appropriate colour for the Windrush Line?
>>>
>>> Maybe black/brown stripe to be fully inclusive. But it's a good point: if
>>> the Northern line hadn't got there first, black would have been good for the
>>> Windrush line.
>>>
>>
>> The other colours are already used in solid line form on the other
>> Underground lines so using Black in the same manner as those on the other
>> Overground lines would have been possible in that respect,
>> must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.
>
> A more legible map appears, appropriately enough, in the Metro.
> <https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SEI_191580661-597c.jpg>
>
> The colour contrast doesn't look brilliant, with the two lines in the
> east both purply-pink and two hues of blue in the north. Similarly
> coloured underground lines such as Victoria and Piccadilly are easily
> distinguished, but the thin Overground lines seem more easily confused.
>
> I wonder whether anyone will use the new names. They may catch on only
> for those lines which don't have a widely used existing identity.
>

So perhaps it could take a generation for the North London line identity
to change,it seems to have survived the changes of destination at its
eastern end with the demise of Broad Street.
Has the East London maintained its moniker since the modernisation and
extension of services at both ends ?

GH

On 15 Feb 2024 16:52:19 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>> must be some other PC reason the obvious wasn’t chosen.
>>
>> A more legible map appears, appropriately enough, in the Metro.
>> <https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SEI_191580661-597c.jpg>
>>
>> The colour contrast doesn't look brilliant, with the two lines in the
>> east both purply-pink and two hues of blue in the north. Similarly
>> coloured underground lines such as Victoria and Piccadilly are easily
>> distinguished, but the thin Overground lines seem more easily confused.
>>
>> I wonder whether anyone will use the new names. They may catch on only
>> for those lines which don't have a widely used existing identity.
>>
>
>So perhaps it could take a generation for the North London line identity
>to change,it seems to have survived the changes of destination at its
>eastern end with the demise of Broad Street.
>Has the East London maintained its moniker since the modernisation and
>extension of services at both ends ?

Not really.

However I look forward to taking the Lezzer Line to Watford and the N****r
Line to and from Highbury.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:11:24 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>
>Yup, it's as PC as I feared. I hope that there's an outcry against them.

I'm disappointed there is no Goblin line or Brunel line (though this
might cause inter-generational confusion).

On 15.02.2024 09:11, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>

An interesting side effect of these changes is that it effectively
presents the Elizabeth line using the same image style and name
convention as the various Overground routes, making it appear to all
intents and purposes as just another Overground line, not some special
unique mode.

Robin

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 15.02.2024 09:11, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>
> An interesting side effect of these changes is that it effectively
> presents the Elizabeth line using the same image style and name
> convention as the various Overground routes, making it appear to all
> intents and purposes as just another Overground line, not some special
> unique mode.
>
> Robin
>

I wish they had chosen numbers as per S-bahn. Some of these newly named
lines already have branches so knowing the name doesn’t necessarily get you
on the right train. We manage to have bus routes with numbers that (in most
cases) uniquely defined a route, so it shouldn’t be an impossible concept
for suburban railways. The Northern Line suffers the same problem.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 15.02.2024 09:11, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>
>> An interesting side effect of these changes is that it effectively
>> presents the Elizabeth line using the same image style and name
>> convention as the various Overground routes, making it appear to all
>> intents and purposes as just another Overground line, not some special
>> unique mode.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>
> I wish they had chosen numbers as per S-bahn. Some of these newly named
> lines already have branches so knowing the name doesn’t necessarily get you
> on the right train. We manage to have bus routes with numbers that (in most
> cases) uniquely defined a route, so it shouldn’t be an impossible concept
> for suburban railways. The Northern Line suffers the same problem.

Some of our buses here are not most cases - some of the routes fork at one
end or the other and if you’re going towards one of the termini then you
have to get on the right bus.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 15/02/2024 17:11, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:11:24 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>
>> Yup, it's as PC as I feared. I hope that there's an outcry against them.
>
> I'm disappointed there is no Goblin line or Brunel line (though this
> might cause inter-generational confusion).

Being pedantic, "Goblin line" is a duplication, like "PIN number": the
"lin" is short for line, so "Goblin line" is "Gospel Oak [to] Barking
line line" ;-) OK, that *was* pedantic ;-)

I wonder how many people use "Crossrail" for what is correctly "the
Elizabeth Line" and how long it will take for "the North London Line"
and "the Goblin" to be replaced by whatever their new names are. I say
"whatever", because one of the weaknesses of the new names is that don't
give any clue as to their destination - apart from the Mildmay line, and
that requires you to know where Mildmay hospital is.

On 15/02/2024 20:03, NY wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 17:11, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:11:24 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68296483>
>>>
>>> Yup, it's as PC as I feared. I hope that there's an outcry against them.
>>
>> I'm disappointed there is no Goblin line or Brunel line (though this
>> might cause inter-generational confusion).
>
> Being pedantic, "Goblin line" is a duplication, like "PIN number": the
> "lin" is short for line, so "Goblin line" is "Gospel Oak [to] Barking
> line line" ;-)  OK, that *was* pedantic ;-)
>
> I wonder how many people use "Crossrail" for what is correctly "the
> Elizabeth Line" and how long it will take for "the North London Line"
> and "the Goblin" to be replaced by whatever their new names are. I say
> "whatever", because one of the weaknesses of the new names is that don't
> give any clue as to their destination - apart from the Mildmay line, and
> that requires you to know where Mildmay hospital is.

As Recliner pointed out, it requires you to know where Mildmay hospital
is, then ignore the two lines that go past it and get on a different
line that goes nowhere near the Mildmay.
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGXm2CzXUAAurM9?format=jpg&name=medium>