<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>

"A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the former
operator, is applying to run a new service.

It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen, Shrewsbury and
Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.

However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly from
Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."

Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
Street and Euston doesn't still exist?

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
>
> "A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the former
> operator, is applying to run a new service.
>
> It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen, Shrewsbury and
> Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.
>
> However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly from
> Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."
>
> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>

It was the DfT aggressively enforcing the Moderation of Competition rule
under Labour, which didn't like open access operators. The current, much
more right-wing, SoS is much more open to them. Plus, there's probably a
belief that the very poor-performing Avanti needs some competition. In any
case, this company won't be serving New Street anyway.

On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
>
> "A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the former
> operator, is applying to run a new service.
>
> It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen, Shrewsbury and
> Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.
>
> However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly from
> Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."
>
> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?

Sounds like the train company WSMR would be better named Great Way
Round, if it's bybasses B'ham NS it would have to go from Wolverhampton
via Walsall, Aldridge, Sutton Coldfield, and finally Water Orton to get
to Coleshill.

On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
>>
>>    "A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the
>> former
>>     operator, is applying to run a new service.
>>
>>     It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen,
>> Shrewsbury and
>>     Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.
>>
>>     However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly
>> from
>>     Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."
>>
>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>
>
> Sounds like the train company WSMR would be better named Great Way
> Round, if it's bybasses B'ham NS it would have to go from Wolverhampton
> via Walsall, Aldridge, Sutton Coldfield, and finally Water Orton to get
> to Coleshill.

If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
call at", with the train passing through non-stop. I doubt that this
would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
>>>
>>>    "A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the
>>> former
>>>     operator, is applying to run a new service.
>>>
>>>     It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen,
>>> Shrewsbury and
>>>     Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.
>>>
>>>     However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly
>>> from
>>>     Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."
>>>
>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>
>>
>> Sounds like the train company WSMR would be better named Great Way
>> Round, if it's bybasses B'ham NS it would have to go from Wolverhampton
>> via Walsall, Aldridge, Sutton Coldfield, and finally Water Orton to get
>> to Coleshill.
>
> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.

No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.

> I doubt that this
> would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.

Yes, probably.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> > On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
> >> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
> >>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:

> >>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
> >>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?

That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
abstracting revenue from franchised operators.

> > If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
> > paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
> > call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>
> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.

They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.

> > I doubt that this
> > would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>
> Yes, probably.

It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
limited.

Theo

Am 23.02.2024 um 01:03 schrieb Recliner:
> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pvvzw89ldo>
>>>>
>>>>    "A new company, also with the initials WSMR but independent of the
>>>> former
>>>>     operator, is applying to run a new service.
>>>>
>>>>     It would serve stations from Wrexham, including Gobowen,
>>>> Shrewsbury and
>>>>     Telford, before passing through the West Midlands en-route to Euston.
>>>>
>>>>     However, it would bypass Birmingham, with trains passing directly
>>>> from
>>>>     Wolverhampton to Coleshill Parkway and Nuneaton."
>>>>
>>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like the train company WSMR would be better named Great Way
>>> Round, if it's bybasses B'ham NS it would have to go from Wolverhampton
>>> via Walsall, Aldridge, Sutton Coldfield, and finally Water Orton to get
>>> to Coleshill.
>>
>> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>
> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.

Will it go via Tame Bridge, Aston, BHI ("M6 Corridor") or is the route
from Wolverhampton to North Walsall Junction usable (it's marked in a
funny way in OpenRailwayMap)?

Rolf

On 23/02/2024 10:19, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>
>
> Will it go via Tame Bridge, Aston, BHI ("M6 Corridor") or is the route
> from Wolverhampton to North Walsall Junction usable (it's marked in a
> funny way in OpenRailwayMap)?

No, Wolverhampton, Walsall, then CBR2 on openrailwaymap to Water Orton,
then onward to Nuneaton/London. The route from Aston to Coventry is
congested, it has long sections of only 2 tracks, with many stopping
trains, so isnt really suitable to add any more express services.

Here's some more information on the proposed services:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/plan-to-welcome-open-access-back-to-wrexham/65533.article

I see they propose to use updated Meridian 222 trains from EMR as those are
replaced by new 810s.

On 23/02/2024 01:43, Theo wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>> > On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>> >> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> >>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>
>> >>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>> >>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>
> That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
> abstracting revenue from franchised operators.
>
>> > If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>> > paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>> > call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>>
>> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.
>
> They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
> to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.
>
>> > I doubt that this
>> > would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>>
>> Yes, probably.
>
> It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
> limited.

Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
warrant a stop if there was a station there?

On 24/02/2024 17:14, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 23/02/2024 01:43, Theo wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>>>>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>>>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>
>> That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
>> abstracting revenue from franchised operators.
>>
>>>> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>>>> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>>>> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>>>
>>> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.
>>
>> They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
>> to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.
>>
>>>> I doubt that this
>>>> would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>>>
>>> Yes, probably.
>>
>> It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
>> limited.
>
> Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
> avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
> though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
> probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
> warrant a stop if there was a station there?

Isn't BHS - Coventry part of the congested WCML that HS2 was suppose to
relieve?

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
> avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
> though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
> probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
> warrant a stop if there was a station there?

I was wondering that. Apparently there are noises from the WM mayor about
building a station at Aldridge, so it could be canny politics on the part of
WSMR to be the only passenger train on that line.

Theo

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 24/02/2024 17:14, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> On 23/02/2024 01:43, Theo wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>>>>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>>
>>> That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
>>> abstracting revenue from franchised operators.
>>>
>>>>> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>>>>> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>>>>> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>>>>
>>>> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.
>>>
>>> They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
>>> to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.
>>>
>>>>> I doubt that this
>>>>> would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, probably.
>>>
>>> It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
>>> limited.
>>
>> Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
>> avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
>> though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
>> probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
>> warrant a stop if there was a station there?
>
> Isn't BHS - Coventry part of the congested WCML that HS2 was suppose to
> relieve?

Yes

On 24/02/2024 17:14, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 23/02/2024 01:43, Theo wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>>>>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>>>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>
>> That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
>> abstracting revenue from franchised operators.
>>
>>>> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>>>> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>>>> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>>>
>>> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.
>>
>> They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
>> to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.
>>
>>>> I doubt that this
>>>> would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>>>
>>> Yes, probably.
>>
>> It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
>> limited.
>
> Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
> avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
> though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
> probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
> warrant a stop if there was a station there?

Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.

Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24/02/2024 17:14, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> On 23/02/2024 01:43, Theo wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/02/2024 23:36, Weather or not wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/02/2024 19:40, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 12:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Please tell me the old rule about not competing with Virgin between New
>>>>>>> Street and Euston doesn't still exist?
>>>
>>> That rule expired in 2012. However you still need to show that you're not
>>> abstracting revenue from franchised operators.
>>>
>>>>> If it literally bypasses Birmingham then it may be due to a lack of
>>>>> paths. On the other hand, "bypass" may be journalese for "does not
>>>>> call at", with the train passing through non-stop.
>>>>
>>>> No, it goes via Walsall, so it really does bypass BNS altogether.
>>>
>>> They're taking the Sutton Park freight line, so going directly from Walsall
>>> to Water Orton - there aren't any stations on that line.
>>>
>>>>> I doubt that this
>>>>> would be the operator's idea, so presumably for monopoly protection.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, probably.
>>>
>>> It also avoids trying to find paths through New St, which I presume are
>>> limited.
>>
>> Not knowing the West Midlands very well, I had not spotted that they were
>> avoiding the entire Wolverhampton - BNS - Coventry - Rugby corridor, even
>> though the stop at Nuneaton is a dead giveaway. I agree that this is
>> probably for pathing reasons. Would Sutton Coldfield be important enough to
>> warrant a stop if there was a station there?
>
> Sutton Coldfield has got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line; the line
> that WSMR trains would run on goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.

It seems very unlikely that there will be platforms at Sutton Coldfield for
the WSMR to serve.

On 25/02/2024 00:05, Recliner wrote:
>> Sutton Coldfield has got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line; the line
>> that WSMR trains would run on goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
> It seems very unlikely that there will be platforms at Sutton Coldfield for
> the WSMR to serve.

Even if there eventually were, I doubt that WSMR will still be operating
by the time they were built.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/02/2024 00:05, Recliner wrote:
>>> Sutton Coldfield has got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line; the line
>>> that WSMR trains would run on goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>> It seems very unlikely that there will be platforms at Sutton Coldfield for
>> the WSMR to serve.
>
> Even if there eventually were, I doubt that WSMR will still be operating
> by the time they were built.
>

Exactly

Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.

That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8

as does the Town station building:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7

So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
Street and out again?

Theo

On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
> Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
>> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>
> That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
> Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
> intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
> https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8
>
> as does the Town station building:
> https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7
>
> So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
> London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
> Street and out again?

Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 13:19:56 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:

>On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
>> Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
>>> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>>
>> That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
>> Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
>> intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8
>>
>> as does the Town station building:
>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7
>>
>> So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
>> London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
>> Street and out again?
>
>Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
>available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.

HMG doesn't determine the availability of paths. And they shouldn't be a problem via that round-about route.

On 25/02/2024 13:51, Recliner wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 13:19:56 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
>>> Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
>>>> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>>>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>>>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>>>
>>> That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
>>> Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
>>> intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8
>>>
>>> as does the Town station building:
>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7
>>>
>>> So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
>>> London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
>>> Street and out again?
>>
>> Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
>> available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.
>
> HMG doesn't determine the availability of paths. And they shouldn't be a problem via that round-about route.

Eventually it will be on the WCML on the most congested section.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 15:08:11 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 25/02/2024 13:51, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 13:19:56 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
>>>> Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
>>>>> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>>>>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>>>>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
>>>> Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
>>>> intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8
>>>>
>>>> as does the Town station building:
>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7
>>>>
>>>> So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
>>>> London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
>>>> Street and out again?
>>>
>>> Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
>>> available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.
>>
>> HMG doesn't determine the availability of paths. And they shouldn't be a problem via that round-about route.
>
>Eventually it will be on the WCML on the most congested section.

Avanti runs significantly fewer services than Virgin used to, so that should provide more than enough spare paths.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
> > So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
> > London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
> > Street and out again?
>
> Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
> available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.

I mean is a direct service to those places attractive for Sutton Coldfield
pax over taking a cross-city train to New St and changing onto Avanti or WMR?

From Aldridge to London/etc it appears to involve at least a bus and two
trains, so I can see the attraction of a new station there.

Separately to note WSMR would offer a regular service on the Wolverhampton to
Walsall line, which would also be crowd pleasing to WM politicians.

Theo

On 25/02/2024 13:51, Recliner wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 13:19:56 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>On 25/02/2024 12:42, Theo wrote:
>>> Weather or not <weather@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sutton Coldfield as got a station on the BNS to Lichfield line, the line
>>>> that WSMR trains would run on, goes over the BNS to Lichfield line.
>>>> There used to be a station on the line that WSMR trains will run on, at
>>>> Sutton Coldfield but it closed 99 years ago.
>>>
>>> That's Sutton Coldfield Town, closed 1925. There was another station,
>>> Sutton Park, which closed 1965. The station building was more or less
>>> intact in 1980 and finally demolished in 1999. The goods shed remains:
>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/LtjfmbQsHCF3mk3R8
>>>
>>> as does the Town station building:
>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzUXMtkmNsVbcbrL7
>>>
>>> So I suppose the question there is: does a station with a direct service to
>>> London (and Wolves, Walsall, Wales, etc) offer much over going into New
>>> Street and out again?
>>
>>Both Network Rail and HMG will claim there are insufficient paths
>>available no matter if that's true or not so that's all rather academic.
>
> HMG doesn't determine the availability of paths. And they shouldn't be a problem via that round-about route.

There are a lots of Enhanced Permissible Speed restrictions on the fast
lines south of Nuneaton, which could affect the availability of paths for
non-tilt stock.