In message <uqtilg$1cvn5$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:35:28 on Sun, 18 Feb
2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb
>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>
>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is
>>>pronounced
>>> fyooshia.
>>>
>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>> awkward in France.
>>
>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification
>> Tool".
>
>That sounds as likely as the City University of Newcastle upon Tyne. :-)

I don't know about the latter, but Microsoft's tool was very real.

https://unknownblogger.livejournal.com/58762.html

At much the same time Digital Research renamed one of their GEM
drop-down menus from Aids to Options.
--
Roland Perry

In message <mn.9b117e821ea54666.104627@invalid.skynet.be>, at 13:05:18
on Mon, 19 Feb 2024, Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be>
remarked:
>Roland Perry formulated the question :
>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb
>>2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>
>>>That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>fyooshia.
>>>
>>>Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>awkward in France.
>>
>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>
>Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>
>That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>for "turd").

See also the Vauxhall Nova. So in Spanish speaking countries they sold
it as an Opel Corsa.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <mn.9b117e821ea54666.104627@invalid.skynet.be>, at 13:05:18
> on Mon, 19 Feb 2024, Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be>
> remarked:
>> Roland Perry formulated the question :
>>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb
>>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>>
>>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>> fyooshia.
>>>>
>>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>> awkward in France.
>>>
>>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>>
>> Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>> sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>> They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>> there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>>
>> That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>> electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>> French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>> for "turd").
>
> See also the Vauxhall Nova. So in Spanish speaking countries they sold
> it as an Opel Corsa.

I suppose that was OK, as Opel only used the legacy Vauxhall brand in the
UK.

Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
> Roland Perry formulated the question :
>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb 2024,
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>
>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>> fyooshia.
>>>
>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>> awkward in France.
>>
>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>
> Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
> sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
> They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
> there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>
> That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
> electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
> French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
> for "turd").

And don’t forget the potential Rolls Royce Silver Mist which got renamed
because of Germany, and a number of vehicles branded Nova in
Spanish-speaking countries.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 14 Feb 2024 23:40:05 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:
>
> > Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:00:18 -0000 (UTC), Muttley wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 14 Feb 2024 11:32:00 +0000 (GMT)
> >> > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>There is scattered documentation (eg for how to format the data to go
> >> >>on the discs) but eg the documentation of how the laserdisc player
> >> >>worked was proprietary to Philips. Which is why it all needs to be
> >> >>reverse engineered - from firmware dumps upwards.
> >> >
> >> > One would have hoped that Philips would have been nice enough to hand
> >> > over relevant documentation for their dead format but I guess not.
> >>
> >> You presuppose there's anyone left at Philips who would have the first
> >> idea where to find it.
> >
> > Heh... once upon a time somebody on the internet was looking for some
> > doc on an obscure 80s teletext chip. I (being a student at PRL Redhill)
> > put out a post on the philips.whatever newsgroup, and a while later
> > somebody in Southampton sent me a folder in the internal mail. Can't
> > imagine that happening these days.
>
> Hah, indeed! In those days I was working (well, also started as a student
> before I went full-time on graduation) in Consultancy Group on stuff for
> PCC (Philips Consumer Communications), and as I recall the GSM spec was a
> pile of binders that stacked on the floor would reach the desk...

Ah, I was in Interactive Systems (ie software, working on VR - how things
change) 1997-8 and then Consultancy for the summer of 1999, looking at
Bluetooth/Wifi/(what became) Zigbee.

> And as well as bits of paper in folders in internal mail, we still had
> tannoy announcements for phonecalls if someone wasn't at their desk - I
> still recall the childish amusement every time a receptionist would
> mispronounce "Call for Dr Fopke Klok" over the tannoy...

"Mr M Christmas, Mr M Christmas, please call 5497"
was a regular smile.

> Yep, I've got a few books from there, and actually when they finally
> closed the labs and "everything must go" ended up with some of their test
> equipment as well - my home oscilloscope, bench multimeter and signal
> generator all had PRL asset tags for quite a while. (Until I emigrated,
> essentially, when paying for shipping that kind of thing wasn't really
> worth it compared to buying new toys.) Not just lifted from the lab, I
> hasten to add - everything was properly written off and given away to
> staff/former staff in exchange for a donation to charity, if I recall
> correctly.

I have a different Philips shutdown story... not Redhill, but Cambridge.
After they shut down Redhill, some the medical bits of PRL (ultrasound?)
moved to Cambridge Science Park... and they shut that down too (~2015 or
something). A lot of their kit went up for auction, so I went along to
view. There was a small wet lab (water baths and stuff not very interesting
to me), a bit of test gear piled in a conference room (mostly old), some
general hand tools, test leads and other miscellaneous stuff, but what was
most interesting was an atomic force microscope just sitting there looking
sad.

I think it was a £100k piece of kit but it was not described as such in the
catalogue, I think the estimate was a few hundred pounds. I was very
tempted, but it looked like the PC to drive it had been taken away as had
some of the other parts. The trouble with this kind of thing is often the
manufacturer won't talk to you unless you bought it from them and have a
service contract in place, so getting parts and software is difficult, and
running costs can be substantial. Plus I didn't have an actual use for it,
and my garden shed was not the appropriate grade of clean room. So perhaps
more liability than bargain.

> > Theo (PRL Redhill 1997-9)
>
> We almost certainly met :^).

Quite possibly.

> Happy memories, and not only of very lovely Beth (IIRC) from HR. Without
> doubt the best job and workplace I ever had - if sadly also the worst
> paid. When I left for a far more boring (but double-the-salary) role up
> norf London, the only way they could come close to matching the salary was
> to offer me a transfer to Philips Sunnyvale in California. Never
> regretted not taking it, but it's definitely the one moment in my life I
> can always point to and think "I wonder what would have happened if I'd
> taken that road."

I think I got paid £9200 rising to £9600 for my year. OTOH that was better
than other jobs with just A-levels.

> I am going to stop reminiscing now...

:-)

Theo

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>> Roland Perry formulated the question :
>>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb 2024,
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>>
>>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>> fyooshia.
>>>>
>>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>> awkward in France.
>>>
>>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>>
>> Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>> sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>> They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>> there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>>
>> That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>> electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>> French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>> for "turd").
>
> And don’t forget the potential Rolls Royce Silver Mist which got renamed
> because of Germany, and a number of vehicles branded Nova in
> Spanish-speaking countries.

Silversea typically names its ships after RR cars, such as the Silver
Shadow, Dawn and Cloud. It has a Silver Muse and Moon, but no Silver Mist.

On 18/02/2024 18:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Scots army/armies definitely, as various English kings and generals could
> testify; navy maybe not so much - ask Sir Patrick Spens.

There was a navy for a time, described at the start of this book.

https://amzn.to/3wf9VKP

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 19:04:00 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:

>On 18/02/2024 18:35, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb
>>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>>
>>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>> fyooshia.
>>>>
>>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>> awkward in France.
>>>
>>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification
>>> Tool".
>
>ISTR using an IBM S/360 assembler reference manual "Aids for Debuggers"
>in the 1980s, though I can find no trace of it online.
>
>> That sounds as likely as the City University of Newcastle upon Tyne. :-)
>
As likely as a cartoon character (Elmer Fudd) having a name matching
the Scots/Icelandic/Norwegian word for the pudenda?

>I do remember unfortunate football commentary from (I think) Euro '96:
>"The Germans are bringing on a substitute: Kuntz."
>
There is also Rafael Scheidt, a Brazilian footballer who played for
Celtic.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:05:18 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
<marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:

>Roland Perry formulated the question :
>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb 2024,
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>
>>>That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>fyooshia.
>>>
>>>Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>awkward in France.
>>
>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>
>Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>
>That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>for "turd").
>
Luckily they haven't sold any cars branded VAG in the UK.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:05:18 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
> <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry formulated the question :
>>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb 2024,
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>>
>>>> That’s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>> fyooshia.
>>>>
>>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>> awkward in France.
>>>
>>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>>
>> Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>> sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>> They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>> there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>>
>> That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>> electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>> French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>> for "turd").
>>
> Luckily they haven't sold any cars branded VAG in the UK.

When the Audi A series first came out I remember being passed on the M6 by
a shiny new car with the registration A8VAG. That was long before adorning
private parts with costume jewellery became a thing.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 10:27:11 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:05:18 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
>> <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry formulated the question :
>>>> In message <uqqbtb$dvni$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:21:48 on Sat, 17 Feb 2024,
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> The relatively innocuous German surname Fuchs (the German word for fox)
>>>>>> can lead to similar awkwardness.
>>>>>
>>>>> That?s why the flower named after a naturalist with that name is pronounced
>>>>> fyooshia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cisco unilaterally renamed the ISO OSI Connection Oriented Network Service
>>>>> to Connection Mode Network Service because the first would have been
>>>>> awkward in France.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft briefly had a product called "Critical Update Notification Tool".
>>>
>>> Toyota once had a car that was named "MR2". Curiously, they decided to
>>> sell it under the name "MR" - without the 2 at the end - in France...
>>> They forgot Belgium (probably thinking that everyone speaks dutch over
>>> there) and probably also Switzerland, though...
>>>
>>> That small mistake did not prevent VAG, 30 years later, to sell an
>>> electric car under the name "E-tron" which doesn't fare very well in
>>> French either (for those without french fluency, "étron" is old vocable
>>> for "turd").
>>>
>> Luckily they haven't sold any cars branded VAG in the UK.
>
>When the Audi A series first came out I remember being passed on the M6 by
>a shiny new car with the registration A8VAG. That was long before adorning
>private parts with costume jewellery became a thing.
>
I always wondered if the allocation of l nnn MUC (Gaelic for "pig",
staff at DVLA would be familiar with the Welsh "moch") to Met Police
motorbikes was accidental or not.

On 19 Feb 2024 22:24:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:

> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On 14 Feb 2024 23:40:05 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:
>>
>> > Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:00:18 -0000 (UTC), Muttley wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 14 Feb 2024 11:32:00 +0000 (GMT)
>> >> > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>There is scattered documentation (eg for how to format the data to
>> >> >>go on the discs) but eg the documentation of how the laserdisc
>> >> >>player worked was proprietary to Philips. Which is why it all
>> >> >>needs to be reverse engineered - from firmware dumps upwards.
>> >> >
>> >> > One would have hoped that Philips would have been nice enough to
>> >> > hand over relevant documentation for their dead format but I guess
>> >> > not.
>> >>
>> >> You presuppose there's anyone left at Philips who would have the
>> >> first idea where to find it.
>> >
>> > Heh... once upon a time somebody on the internet was looking for
>> > some doc on an obscure 80s teletext chip. I (being a student at PRL
>> > Redhill)
>> > put out a post on the philips.whatever newsgroup, and a while later
>> > somebody in Southampton sent me a folder in the internal mail. Can't
>> > imagine that happening these days.
>>
>> Hah, indeed! In those days I was working (well, also started as a
>> student before I went full-time on graduation) in Consultancy Group on
>> stuff for PCC (Philips Consumer Communications), and as I recall the
>> GSM spec was a pile of binders that stacked on the floor would reach
>> the desk...
>
> Ah, I was in Interactive Systems (ie software, working on VR - how
> things change) 1997-8 and then Consultancy for the summer of 1999,
> looking at Bluetooth/Wifi/(what became) Zigbee.

Aha, I'd gone by the time you were in Con Group then; I guess you if you
were on Zigbee you worked with good old Dave Avery for a while then if you
moved over to Cambridge with them? Fond memories of him and the rest of
the team.

When I was there what-became-Zigbee was still the "AMR Project" - aka
Automated Meter Reading. A proof of concept demonstrator for reading
water meters for a French utility company (the idea was all the water
meters would form a low-power mesh network and you could read an entire
street's meters just by driving past the bottom of it in a van with a
suitable receiver.) I've always thought the switch from meter reading to
low-power domestic "IoT" was a nice example of what would later be
described as "pivoting" by idiotic MBA types who think they were the first
to think of everything...

Still, IS eh... Was it you lot who were busy sewing mobile phones into
puffer jackets? ;-)