Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
torment

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
> torment
>
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3
>
>
>

As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
his Wife was able to choose his path.
I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
fictional film Soylent Green
but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
pressure to go down that path.
Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
ease the Bill of educating them?

It could be a slippery path.

GH

In message <l6nih3F3is8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:12:51 on Fri, 29
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
>> torment
>>
>>
>>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5
>>?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3
>
>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>fictional film Soylent Green
>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>pressure to go down that path.
>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>ease the Bill of educating them?
>
>It could be a slippery path.

All the talking heads I've seen the last week or so seem in reasonable
good health, and not a single one was propped up in a hospital bed with
a drip.

The NHS already has a scheme for people to volunteer a "Do Not
Recussiate", but I don't think there's a matching "Do not keep
me alive by pumping me full of painkillers and other end-of-life
potions".

Which in turn leads to the schemes they already have of withdrawing
treatment for the underlying condition (in laymans terms admitting
it's completely incurable or inoperable) which is known as Palliative
Care. And that has a second stage called "End of Life Care" which
depending on how rapidly things are progressing could be anything from
one day to three weeks.

That's the time people might want to spend in a hospice, if they weren't
at home. Most NHS hospitals don't have any hospice facility - like air
ambulances they expect the charity sector to provide.

But don't for a minute think that there isn't going to be a waiting list
for a hospice, which if more than three weeks can be deeply distressing
for both patient and family.

ps Hospices have other activities supporting long term terminally ill
outpatients, but I think assisted dying is at least a most urgent
consideration for someone on end of life care.
--
Roland Perry

On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
>> torment
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3
>>
>>
>>
>
>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>fictional film Soylent Green
>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>pressure to go down that path.
>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>ease the Bill of educating them?
>
>It could be a slippery path.

That's what people say in countries without assisted dying. It's mostly driven by the church.

But a number of countries now have it, and it works well. I met an Australian man last year whose wife had recently
taken that path, to her great relief. She was in complete control, and it was entirely her decision. It had to be
approved by several unconnected medical personnel who confirmed her medical prognosis, mental state and that it was her
own decision, taken without pressure. She went peacefully, in her own bed, with no need to travel to a foreign country.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:55:31 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>>fictional film Soylent Green
>>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>>pressure to go down that path.
>>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>>ease the Bill of educating them?
>>
>>It could be a slippery path.
>
>That's what people say in countries without assisted dying. It's mostly driven
>by the church.

The whole suicide is a sin routine. A rule no doubt invented in medieval times
(or earlier) when the temptation for half starved peasents in abject poverty,
pain and misery to jump off the nearest cliff and end it all would be quite
high.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:19:51 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:55:31 +0000
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>>>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>>>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>>>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>>>fictional film Soylent Green
>>>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>>>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>>>pressure to go down that path.
>>>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>>>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>>>ease the Bill of educating them?
>>>
>>>It could be a slippery path.
>>
>>That's what people say in countries without assisted dying. It's mostly driven
>>by the church.
>
>The whole suicide is a sin routine. A rule no doubt invented in medieval times
>(or earlier) when the temptation for half starved peasents in abject poverty,
>pain and misery to jump off the nearest cliff and end it all would be quite
>high.

Most religions aren't very interested in poor peasants. They care much more about richer people who can be fleeced into
funding the priesthood and fine buildings.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:27:32 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:19:51 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:55:31 +0000
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>>>>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>>>>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>>>>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>>>>fictional film Soylent Green
>>>>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>>>>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>>>>pressure to go down that path.
>>>>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>>>>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>>>>ease the Bill of educating them?
>>>>
>>>>It could be a slippery path.
>>>
>>>That's what people say in countries without assisted dying. It's mostly
>driven
>>>by the church.
>>
>>The whole suicide is a sin routine. A rule no doubt invented in medieval times
>
>>(or earlier) when the temptation for half starved peasents in abject poverty,
>
>>pain and misery to jump off the nearest cliff and end it all would be quite
>>high.
>
>Most religions aren't very interested in poor peasants. They care much more
>about richer people who can be fleeced into
>funding the priesthood and fine buildings.

The rich don't want the peasents topping themselves else who will pay tithes
and taxes?

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:36:43 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:27:32 +0000
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:19:51 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:55:31 +0000
>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth and with
>>>>>his Wife was able to choose his path.
>>>>>I haven’t made my mind up on the issue.
>>>>>It would probably take some time to reach a state as depicted in the
>>>>>fictional film Soylent Green
>>>>>but I don’t think it would take that long before some vulnerable people
>>>>>who are costing the state or relatives money to maintain come under
>>>>>pressure to go down that path.
>>>>>Ok it may in the cold light of day be considered better for them but would
>>>>>it stop there, next move reduce the number of people with special needs to
>>>>>ease the Bill of educating them?
>>>>>
>>>>>It could be a slippery path.
>>>>
>>>>That's what people say in countries without assisted dying. It's mostly
>>driven
>>>>by the church.
>>>
>>>The whole suicide is a sin routine. A rule no doubt invented in medieval times
>>
>>>(or earlier) when the temptation for half starved peasents in abject poverty,
>>
>>>pain and misery to jump off the nearest cliff and end it all would be quite
>>>high.
>>
>>Most religions aren't very interested in poor peasants. They care much more
>>about richer people who can be fleeced into
>>funding the priesthood and fine buildings.
>
>The rich don't want the peasents topping themselves else who will pay tithes
>and taxes?

True

On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
>> torment
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3
>>
>>
>>
>
>As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth
Not as much as he had, as he lost most of it in Viva Rail, but he was
still wealthy by most people's standards. (I lashed out £1.50 for a
copy of his will from https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/.)

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2024 10:12:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Barbara Shooter: He went with a smile: assisted dying saved my husband from
>>> torment
>>>
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ed1a50-8db8-4f8d-8ef2-6334221249c5?shareToken=d9560a04dcadd4fda2536a1ef82836a3
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As the article indicated they were a couple who had some wealth
> Not as much as he had, as he lost most of it in Viva Rail, but he was
> still wealthy by most people's standards. (I lashed out £1.50 for a
> copy of his will from https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/.)
>

I hadn't realised he owned so much of Vivarail. I now see that RDC (Henry
Posner III) owned 50% of Vivarail shares, with Shooter holding 26.8%. I had
wrongly thought that Posner had provided most of the funding, and took most
of the hit.