Seen on Facebook this morning, and I'm particularly attracted to it
because I've been over the Aqueduct a few times (since my canaling
debut 52yrs ago).

Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVs6-hE8Ak
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> Seen on Facebook this morning, and I'm particularly attracted to it
> because I've been over the Aqueduct a few times (since my canaling
> debut 52yrs ago).
>
> Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVs6-hE8Ak

I watched it heading up the hill to Morningside on the Edinburgh Sub on
Friday morning. The two locos were working fairly hard but not obviously
straining. The 47 on the back just seemed to be idling.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 10:02:26 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> Seen on Facebook this morning, and I'm particularly attracted to it
>> because I've been over the Aqueduct a few times (since my canaling
>> debut 52yrs ago).
>>
>> Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVs6-hE8Ak
>
>I watched it heading up the hill to Morningside on the Edinburgh Sub on
>Friday morning. The two locos were working fairly hard but not obviously
>straining. The 47 on the back just seemed to be idling.

This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:

- Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is, of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.

- Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines,
with Tangmere featuring on just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually feature several different
big locos, with Black Fives and Jubilees usually being used only on lesser routes.

In message <5l1a2jlbfvncqlkhqj61olivt7uf5so187@4ax.com>, at 13:39:43 on
Sun, 21 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 10:02:26 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> Seen on Facebook this morning, and I'm particularly attracted to it
>>> because I've been over the Aqueduct a few times (since my canaling
>>> debut 52yrs ago).
>>>
>>> Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVs6-hE8Ak
>>
>>I watched it heading up the hill to Morningside on the Edinburgh Sub on
>>Friday morning. The two locos were working fairly hard but not obviously
>>straining. The 47 on the back just seemed to be idling.
>
>This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>
> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>
> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>feature several different big locos,

Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
locos?

>with Black Fives and Jubilees usually being used only on lesser routes.

I was considering going on it this year, but not before perhaps July.
But that's obviously not an option.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <5l1a2jlbfvncqlkhqj61olivt7uf5so187@4ax.com>, at 13:39:43 on
> Sun, 21 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 10:02:26 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> Seen on Facebook this morning, and I'm particularly attracted to it
>>>> because I've been over the Aqueduct a few times (since my canaling
>>>> debut 52yrs ago).
>>>>
>>>> Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVs6-hE8Ak
>>>
>>> I watched it heading up the hill to Morningside on the Edinburgh Sub on
>>> Friday morning. The two locos were working fairly hard but not obviously
>>> straining. The 47 on the back just seemed to be idling.
>>
>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>
>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>> feature several different big locos,
>
> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
> locos?

I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
with loco availability.

In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>
>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>
>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>> feature several different big locos,
>>
>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>> locos?
>
>I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>with loco availability.

There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
(apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>
>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>
>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>> locos?
>>
>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>> with loco availability.
>
> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?

There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>
>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>> locos?
>>>
>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>> with loco availability.
>>
>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>
> There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.

Definitely two locos when it arrived at and left Edinburgh.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>> locos?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>> with loco availability.
>>>
>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>
>> There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.
>
> Definitely two locos when it arrived at and left Edinburgh.

It looks like almost every time the full train was Black Five-powered, both
were used. The only exceptions were the initial Kentish meander and the
optional Kyle excursion, possibly with a shorter consist.

https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xvi---april-2024

On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>
>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>
>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>> locos?
>>
>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>> with loco availability.
>
> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?

I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.

Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>
>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>> locos?
>>>
>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>> with loco availability.
>>
>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>
> I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.
>
> Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.

About 200m.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>> locos?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>> with loco availability.
>>>
>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>
>> I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.
>>
>> Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.
>
> About 200m.

:-) I love SI units.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 22/04/2024 12:56, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>>> locos?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>>> with loco availability.
>>>>
>>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>>
>>> I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.
>>>
>>> Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.
>>
>> About 200m.
>
> :-) I love SI units.
>

I prefer IKEA units…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 22/04/2024 13:01, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 22/04/2024 12:56, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun,
>>>>> 21 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This
>>>>>>>> is,
>>>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled
>>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere
>>>>>>>> featuring on
>>>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>>>> locos?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos
>>>>>> had both
>>>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> with loco availability.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>>>
>>>> I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that
>>>> line.
>>>>
>>>> Hint:  It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.
>>>
>>> About 200m.
>>
>> :-)  I love SI units.
>>
>
> I prefer IKEA units…
>

Congratulations if you manage to assemble them!

--
Colin

In message <6MqVN.80014$Rt2.14656@fx10.ams1>, at 10:14:26 on Mon, 22 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>>> locos?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>>> with loco availability.
>>>>
>>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>>
>>> There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.
>>
>> Definitely two locos when it arrived at and left Edinburgh.
>
>It looks like almost every time the full train was Black Five-powered, both
>were used. The only exceptions were the initial Kentish meander and the
>optional Kyle excursion, possibly with a shorter consist.
>
>https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xvi---april-2024

I'm not going to do a full audit, but there are photos of just one Black
5 on the final stretch to Liverpool. Nevertheless interesting they
uncouple one from time to time.

"Friday 19th April 2024
Edinburgh to Liverpool via the Upperby Curve and Shap Summit
Today you leave Edinburgh, double headed by two Black 5's, and continue
your steam-hauled journey along the east coast of Scotland, south
towards the border near Berwick-on-Tweed."
--
Roland Perry

In message <v05efs$t682$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:34:36 on Mon, 22 Apr
2024, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21
>>Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>
>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>> locos?
>>>
>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>> with loco availability.

>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>(apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>
>I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.
>
>Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.

There's one attached to the back of the train!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <v05efs$t682$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:34:36 on Mon, 22 Apr
> 2024, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> On 22/04/2024 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21
>>> Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>> locos?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>> with loco availability.
>
>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>
>> I think they're learnt what happens during a train failure on that line.
>>
>> Hint: It's a long way from a rescue locomotive.
>
> There's one attached to the back of the train!

Oh, now you’ve given it away!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <6MqVN.80014$Rt2.14656@fx10.ams1>, at 10:14:26 on Mon, 22 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>>>> locos?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>>>> with loco availability.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>>>
>>>> There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.
>>>
>>> Definitely two locos when it arrived at and left Edinburgh.
>>
>> It looks like almost every time the full train was Black Five-powered, both
>> were used. The only exceptions were the initial Kentish meander and the
>> optional Kyle excursion, possibly with a shorter consist.
>>
>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xvi---april-2024
>
> I'm not going to do a full audit, but there are photos of just one Black
> 5 on the final stretch to Liverpool. Nevertheless interesting they
> uncouple one from time to time.
>
> "Friday 19th April 2024
> Edinburgh to Liverpool via the Upperby Curve and Shap Summit
> Today you leave Edinburgh, double headed by two Black 5's, and continue
> your steam-hauled journey along the east coast of Scotland, south
> towards the border near Berwick-on-Tweed."

I wonder if it has something to do with water stops? Watering two locos
would take longer, and may be awkward in some locations. So, once the hard
work for the day is over, it may make sense to detach one loco, and send it
separately to the overnight location. It would also reduce crew hours.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <6MqVN.80014$Rt2.14656@fx10.ams1>, at 10:14:26 on Mon, 22 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <VbfVN.77167$lu2.57908@fx15.ams1>, at 21:04:53 on Sun, 21 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> This year's GB tour is unusual for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Use of Mk 2s, which won't go down well with the regulars. This is,
>>>>>>>> of course, because WCR lacks Mk 1s with CDL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Lack of variety in traction. Most of the tour is being hauled by the
>>>>>>>> same pair of Black Fives, even on mainlines, with Tangmere featuring on
>>>>>>>> just one day. This is not normal for the GB tours, which usually
>>>>>>>> feature several different big locos,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it perhaps something to do with the braking equipment fitted to
>>>>>>> locos?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know. I'd have thought any of the usual Carnforth locos had both
>>>>>> vacuum and air brakes, so could haul this train, so it may be more to do
>>>>>> with loco availability.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's lots of video/photos of the tour on Facebook, and almost all
>>>>> (apart from the day via Chirk) have just one Black Five hauling the
>>>>> train. It's possible the Welsh line is hillier?
>>>>
>>>> There's plenty of double heading, too, wherever higher speeds are needed.
>>>
>>> Definitely two locos when it arrived at and left Edinburgh.
>>
>> It looks like almost every time the full train was Black Five-powered, both
>> were used. The only exceptions were the initial Kentish meander and the
>> optional Kyle excursion, possibly with a shorter consist.
>>
>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xvi---april-2024
>
> I'm not going to do a full audit, but there are photos of just one Black
> 5 on the final stretch to Liverpool. Nevertheless interesting they
> uncouple one from time to time.
>
> "Friday 19th April 2024
> Edinburgh to Liverpool via the Upperby Curve and Shap Summit
> Today you leave Edinburgh, double headed by two Black 5's, and continue
> your steam-hauled journey along the east coast of Scotland, south
> towards the border near Berwick-on-Tweed."

Looks like something happened at Carlisle. There’s an odd collections of
moves I don’t understand in and out of p3, to and from Steamtown.

<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U09164/2024-04-19/detailed>
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/2024-04-19/1355>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 15:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
> Looks like something happened at Carlisle. There’s an odd collections of
> moves I don’t understand in and out of p3, to and from Steamtown.
>
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U09164/2024-04-19/
detailed>
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/
2024-04-19/1355>

Looks like a loco swap to me. Not sure why the loco moves are listed as
ECS rather than light engine, but possibly they have a support coach with
them. The timetabled times don't quite work, but they're only a minute
out. Looking at the actual times instead:

1355: 1Z42 arrives from Edinburgh
1410: 5Z44 departs to Carnforth - presumably the loco(s) from 1Z42
1414: 5Z43 arrives, running backwards (having reversed just outside
Carlisle using the triangle between the WCML and Newcastle/Settle lines).
Presumably new loco(s), and the reverse is to allow it to face south once
coupled.
1452: 1Z42 departs for Liverpool

There's nothing shown as to what stock is on the Carnforth trains, and
presumably the "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 715 tons" is a red
herring.

Mike

Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 15:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Looks like something happened at Carlisle. There’s an odd collections of
>> moves I don’t understand in and out of p3, to and from Steamtown.
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U09164/2024-04-19/
> detailed>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/
> 2024-04-19/1355>
>
> Looks like a loco swap to me. Not sure why the loco moves are listed as
> ECS rather than light engine, but possibly they have a support coach with
> them. The timetabled times don't quite work, but they're only a minute
> out. Looking at the actual times instead:
>
> 1355: 1Z42 arrives from Edinburgh
> 1410: 5Z44 departs to Carnforth - presumably the loco(s) from 1Z42
> 1414: 5Z43 arrives, running backwards (having reversed just outside
> Carlisle using the triangle between the WCML and Newcastle/Settle lines).
> Presumably new loco(s), and the reverse is to allow it to face south once
> coupled.
> 1452: 1Z42 departs for Liverpool

Thanks for disentangling the timings - I was in a hurry and didn’t manage
it!

> There's nothing shown as to what stock is on the Carnforth trains, and
> presumably the "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 715 tons" is a red
> herring.

That’s been the description on all the legs, I think.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 22/04/2024 21:22, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 15:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Looks like something happened at Carlisle. There’s an odd collections of
>>> moves I don’t understand in and out of p3, to and from Steamtown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U09164/2024-04-19/
>> detailed>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/
>> 2024-04-19/1355>
>>
>> Looks like a loco swap to me. Not sure why the loco moves are listed as
>> ECS rather than light engine, but possibly they have a support coach with
>> them. The timetabled times don't quite work, but they're only a minute
>> out. Looking at the actual times instead:
>>
>> 1355: 1Z42 arrives from Edinburgh
>> 1410: 5Z44 departs to Carnforth - presumably the loco(s) from 1Z42
>> 1414: 5Z43 arrives, running backwards (having reversed just outside
>> Carlisle using the triangle between the WCML and Newcastle/Settle lines).
>> Presumably new loco(s), and the reverse is to allow it to face south once
>> coupled.
>> 1452: 1Z42 departs for Liverpool
>
> Thanks for disentangling the timings - I was in a hurry and didn’t manage
> it!
>
>> There's nothing shown as to what stock is on the Carnforth trains, and
>> presumably the "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 715 tons" is a red
>> herring.

It's only a red herring in that readers don't read properly what is
written. It also says something like "pathed as..."

It's too easy to read too read too much in RTT.

There are videos on YouTube now covering just about all stages of the
tour, so working out which loco(s) did which stage is easy - and also
rather enjoyable (although some cameramen shouls acquire a tripod...=(.
--
Dave
Frodsham

Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 15:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Looks like something happened at Carlisle. There’s an odd collections of
>> moves I don’t understand in and out of p3, to and from Steamtown.
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U09164/2024-04-19/
> detailed>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/
> 2024-04-19/1355>
>
> Looks like a loco swap to me. Not sure why the loco moves are listed as
> ECS rather than light engine, but possibly they have a support coach with
> them.

I think they always move with their support coach.

In message <v06gti$150nk$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:22:10 on Mon, 22 Apr
2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>> There's nothing shown as to what stock is on the Carnforth trains, and
>> presumably the "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 715 tons" is a red
>> herring.
>
>That’s been the description on all the legs, I think.

Yes, and it is a *template* for the timing, not a prediction of the
actual traction. Although if the kettles had broken down (or were only
scheduled for part of the trip), it would suddenly become literally
true.
--
Roland Perry