After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?

Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... a series about a grumpy old man who lives in a phone box is unlikely to
have been commissioned these days. 798 episodes later ...

On Sun 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>
> Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
> being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
> special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
> works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

A few years back I set up VoIP between us, f-in-l and daughter on
Sipgate using PAP2T ATA's for f-in-l and daughter and a Grandstream SIP
phone for us. The CLI number had to be set up on line into their system.
If that was not entered then the account number showed instead

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>
>Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
>being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
>special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
>works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

The Virgin Media one certainly does on my Gigaset phones.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>
> Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
> being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
> special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
> works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:24:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>
>Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
>being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
>special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
>works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

Yes, it works on Zen's system. I didn't have to reconfigure anything,
just plug the phone into the router they supplied.

Rod.

In message <946149e4-f9b8-41fa-086a-b494cdfe5d5d@outlook.com> at Sun, 3
Sep 2023 17:08:13, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>On 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>> Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
>>being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
>>special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
>>works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)
>
>I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
>surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
>communication providers unless they can show it's too
>difficult/expensive.

I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the first
one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you carry on hating, you're the one who's damaged.
- Sir Harold Atcherley, sent to the Burma/Siam railway in April 1943

On 03/09/2023 18:55, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <946149e4-f9b8-41fa-086a-b494cdfe5d5d@outlook.com> at Sun, 3
> Sep 2023 17:08:13, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>> On 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>>>  Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
>>> being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into
>>> the special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI
>>> still works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)
>>
>> I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out).  I'd be very
>> surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
>> communication providers unless they can show it's too
>> difficult/expensive.
>
> I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
> router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
> existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the first
> one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.

It may surprise you to know that Ofcom don't allow providers to make up
their own form of CLI data so e.g. it can only be understood by one monk
in a Tibetan monastery.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In message <e9769f40-f470-b2dc-d39d-e63ef51ecca3@outlook.com> at Sun, 3
Sep 2023 20:18:07, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>On 03/09/2023 18:55, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <946149e4-f9b8-41fa-086a-b494cdfe5d5d@outlook.com> at Sun,
>>3 Sep 2023 17:08:13, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>>> On 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>>>>  Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old"
>>>>(still being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI
>>>>plugged into the special socket on the router or whatever, can tell
>>>>us if CLI still works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)
>>>
>>> I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out).  I'd be very
>>>surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
>>>communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.
>> I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
>>router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with
>>the existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the
>>first one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.
>
>It may surprise you to know that Ofcom don't allow providers to make up
>their own form of CLI data so e.g. it can only be understood by one
>monk in a Tibetan monastery.
>
No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science isn't about being right every time, or even most of the time. It is
about being more right over time and fixing what it got wrong.
- Scott Adams, 2015-2-2

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
>at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
>enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
>they support pulse dialling.

Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
worked OK.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 18:55:25 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
>router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
>existing CLI continue to work.

Yes, from personal experience, both Zen and BT routers do this, so
presumably it's standard. You won't need a special phone; just plug
the existing one into the router instead of the socket on the wall.

Zen and BT routers (and possibly others) can also function as DECT
base stations. In theory any DECT phone should work with any DECT base
station, and at least the basic functions should work, though I only
achieved limited success trying a BT handset with the Zen Fritzbox
router. Maybe the Fritz handsets that are designed for them would work
better, but they're expensive, and my existing phone works just fine
and the wiring to plug it in is already in place.

With the most recent BT routers there is an option to buy new DECT
handsets designed to work with them, which is what was chosen for
another family installation, and I can vouch that they work very well.

Rod.

On 04/09/2023 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
>> at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
>> enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
>> they support pulse dialling.
>
> Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
> used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
> wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
> worked OK.
>

Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
supplier may say it's not a supported service).

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In message <fb436295-8254-3e01-7c54-1dda0fb768f7@outlook.com> at Mon, 4
Sep 2023 09:47:25, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>On 04/09/2023 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>
>>> No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't
>>>implement it
>>> at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
>>> enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
>>> they support pulse dialling.
>> Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
>> used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old

What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
(maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
the reason for there being two of them?

>> wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
>> worked OK.
>>
Wow, that is a surprise.
>
>Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
>supplier may say it's not a supported service).
>
We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

On 04/09/2023 10:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <fb436295-8254-3e01-7c54-1dda0fb768f7@outlook.com> at Mon,
> 4 Sep 2023 09:47:25, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>> On 04/09/2023 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't
>>>> implement it
>>>> at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
>>>> enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
>>>> they support pulse dialling.
>>>  Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
>>> used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
>
> What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
> (maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
> the reason for there being two of them?
>
>>> wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
>>> worked OK.
>>>
> Wow, that is a surprise.
>>
>> Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
>> supplier may say it's not a supported service).
>>
> We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!
Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025, or
(I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
renewal of existing contract.

Folk who wish to keep their 'landline' service will be advised to move
to EE or BT

I'm told that it should work, but not ever tried it as my main problem with
voip was my tone dialler was never seen as the right number any more. Minute
break ups in the stream were the cause. I like to dial with a tone dialler
as it means that wherever I am and there is a land line phone I can dial
anyone on my list. Sadly now, one needs a mobile and to load all the info in
again to be able to do what you could do with a low tech dialler with
memories.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ud27a0$v8rq$2@dont-email.me...
> On Sun 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>>
>> Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still being
>> sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the special
>> socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still works. (I. e.
>> does the 'phone show who's calling.)
>
>
> A few years back I set up VoIP between us, f-in-l and daughter on Sipgate
> using PAP2T ATA's for f-in-l and daughter and a Grandstream SIP phone for
> us. The CLI number had to be set up on line into their system. If that was
> not entered then the account number showed instead

In message <kllncgF2lgnU1@mid.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Sep 2023
10:46:56, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 04/09/2023 10:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!
>Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
>service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025,

Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.

>or (I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
>renewal of existing contract.

Weird: today I've received an email that says something like when you
took out your present contract, we didn't send you certain documents:
since this is our fault, you can leave penalty-free any time. Is this a
way of shaving off old customers! (Usually, at the bi-annual haggle,
they've sounded _pleased_ at the time I've been with them.)
>
>Folk who wish to keep their 'landline' service will be advised to move
>to EE or BT

Hmm.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

In article <Y3Oo2G77jI9kFwiz@255soft.uk>, J. P. Gilliver
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> scribeth thus
>After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>
>Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
>being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
>special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
>works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI

But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On 04/09/2023 10:46, Mark Carver wrote:
> (I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
> renewal of existing contract.
>
Indeed. Openreach's national "Stop Sell" starts tomorrow

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 04/09/2023 13:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <kllncgF2lgnU1@mid.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Sep 2023
> 10:46:56, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 04/09/2023 10:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> []
>>> We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!
>> Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
>> service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025,
>
> Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
> with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.
>

It's the same hardware as the BT hub so simpler and cheaper to use the
same sticker; and does no harm to leave open the possibility that they
might decide to offer it after all.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 13:51:54 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
>with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.

I have a BT Smart Hub 2 which plugs into the first phone socket which
is a 2 way split it does not have a phone socket itself. Other phones
are Gigaset cordless. There seems to be a few different Smart Hub 2.

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>In message <fb436295-8254-3e01-7c54-1dda0fb768f7@outlook.com> at Mon, 4
>Sep 2023 09:47:25, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>>On 04/09/2023 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:

>>> Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
>>> used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
>
>What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
>(maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
>the reason for there being two of them?

I was, prompted by discussion elsewhere, which you may recall,
experimenting to see if I could connect my DECT base station to
one socket, and use the other to back feed the existing (but
disconnected form BT) wired sockets around the house. I found
that both alone would work, but only one socket on the router is
live.

I now understand that the second socket can be set up, at a
price, to provide another phone line.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

In message <5jnN2ODQ1d9kFw22@bancom.co.uk> at Mon, 4 Sep 2023 14:36:16,
tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> writes
[]
>We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
>carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
>openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
>mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

(So if someone 'phones the number, what happens?)
>
>We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI
>
>But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
>cheaper overall:))
>
If you're paying a monthly mobile anyway, yes. I'm not. I live a fairly
hermit lifestyle (don't go out much); I have broadband and anytime
'phone for twentysomething a month from PN, and PAYG for the mobile (of
which there's still some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it
left).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand

Well there are talking phones that do this, otherwise you could not screen a
call, and nobody has said it does not work. I use truecall, and wondered if
that would still work on the voip. Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Robin" <rbw@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:946149e4-f9b8-41fa-086a-b494cdfe5d5d@outlook.com...
> On 03/09/2023 14:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
>>
>> Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still being
>> sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the special
>> socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still works. (I. e.
>> does the 'phone show who's calling.)
>
> I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
> surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
> communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.
> --
> Robin
> reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
>

In message <cd14fcea-02f8-741c-59dd-e0f78c2eedad@outlook.com> at Mon, 4
Sep 2023 14:47:29, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> writes
>On 04/09/2023 10:46, Mark Carver wrote:
>> (I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
>>renewal of existing contract.
>>
>Indeed. Openreach's national "Stop Sell" starts tomorrow
>

Well, since I'd had this email ("we forgot to send you some documents
when you started your present contract - because this was our error, you
can quit penalty-free"), I rang up PlusNet this morning, to ask about
things, including keeping my landline (at least the number). He seemed
to say PN aren't going to do landlines beyond a point (at all, not even
VoIP), and I'd have to switch to BT - which would have cost me 38 a
month, rather than the 26 I'm paying now (for broadband - at what I
think is about 30 speed - and anytime calls).

The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have ended
in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25 -
keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to an
hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it was in
the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even mention
of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same 'phones, I'm
not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

So - we'll see what happens! I did say something like "when you mess up
the first bill, I hope there won't be problems getting it sorted"
(because they've I think _always_ messed it up after any change, either
new contract or the annual CPI+3.9%), but he said they wouldn't as it's
the same contract. We'll see! (And we'll see what happens about the end
of POTS as well.)

Oh - he did ask if I'd considered switching to mobile; "as an existing
broadband customer", they could do me a good deal - 8 pounds a month. I
don't think he was expecting me to point out that my PAYG mobile still
has some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it (last year), still
left.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If, after hearing my songs, just one human being is inspired to say something
nasty to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one, it will all have been
worth the while. - Liner notes, "Songs & More Songs By Tom Lehrer", Rhino
Records, 1997.

On 05/09/2023 15:16, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
> The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have
> ended in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25
> - keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to
> an hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it
> was in the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even
> mention of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same
> 'phones, I'm not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

That should ensure you retain your 'copper POTs' service until Sept
2025.  All copper POTs services will cease in Dec 2025, so that'll take
as far up to the death day as possible really.

Hopefully before then the industry will have sorted out a scheme, where
you can with ease, and without killing your broadband service, migrate
your phone number to a proper full fat VoIP service provider (and so
decouple for ever your broadband and phone supplier)

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/09/ofcom-uk-urges-industry-progress-on-phone-number-porting.html

On 05/09/2023 15:16, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have ended
> in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25 -
> keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to an
> hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it was in
> the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even mention
> of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same 'phones, I'm
> not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.
>
If you have a POTS line now, all you will need to do is plug the POTS
phone into the phone port on the new router when it arrives. CLI and
other stuff works, as do pulse dial phones with a real bell on most routers.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.