(as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
this event...)

https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/

April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
in Mountain View, CA.

DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media

Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
supreme. During their heyday in the 1980s and '90s, millions of people
dialed their modems into more than 100,000 BBSs, and their impact can
still be felt in today's digital world.

Join us to hear Kevin Driscoll, author of the award-winning book The
Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media, and technology and society
expert danah boyd discuss the innovative world of BBSs and how they
shaped the ongoing evolution of social media and the internet.

What You'll Experience

Hear untold stories of regional and general-interest BBSs, and those for
groups like HIV/AIDS activists and ham radio users. Learn how BBS
operators and users developed early forms of community moderation,
governance, and commercialization. Reflect on the evolution of social
media and consider lessons for a more inclusive future.

kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet

.... RAW DATA FOR RAW NERVES
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Win32 NewsLink 1.114
* realitycheckBBS - Aptos, CA - telnet://realitycheckbbs.org

"Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-y2p-this> writes:
>(as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
>this event...)
>
>https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/
>
>April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
>in Mountain View, CA.
>
>DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media
>
>Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
>even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
>supreme.

I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-y2p-this> writes:
>> (as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
>> this event...)
>>
>> https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/
>>
>> April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
>> in Mountain View, CA.
>>
>> DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media
>>
>> Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
>> even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
>> supreme.
>
> I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
> and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.
>
>
What was/is plato notes?

D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>
>
>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-y2p-this> writes:
>>> (as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
>>> this event...)
>>>
>>> https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/
>>>
>>> April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
>>> in Mountain View, CA.
>>>
>>> DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media
>>>
>>> Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
>>> even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
>>> supreme.
>>
>> I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
>> and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.
>>
>>
>What was/is plato notes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-y2p-this> writes:
>>>> (as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
>>>> this event...)
>>>>
>>>> https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/
>>>>
>>>> April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
>>>> in Mountain View, CA.
>>>>
>>>> DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media
>>>>
>>>> Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
>>>> even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
>>>> supreme.
>>>
>>> I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
>>> and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.
>>>
>>>
>> What was/is plato notes?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)
>

Thank you! Nothing new under the sun. ;)

TYMSHARE ... online commercial service bureau
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymshare
and its TYMNET with lots of local phone numbers around US and the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymnet
In Aug1976, Tymshare started offering its CMS-based online computer
conferencing free to (user group) SHARE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHARE_(computing)
as VMSHARE ... archives here
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare

I cut a deal with tymshare to get monthly tape dump of all VMSHARE (and
later PCSHARE) files for putting up on internal corporate network and
systems (biggest problem was lawyers who were concerned that internal
employees being contaminated being exposed to unfiltered customer
information).

In the late 70s and early 80s, I was also blamed for online computer
conferencing on the internal network (larger than arpanet/internet from
just about from the beginning until sometime mid/late 80s), it really
took off the spring of 1981 when I distributed of trip report to see
Jim Gray at Tandem (although only about 300 participated, claims were
that upwards of 25,000 were reading). Also supposedly when corporate
executive committee was told, 5of6 wanted to fire me.

From IBMJARGON ... copy here
https://comlay.net/ibmjarg.pdf

Tandem Memos - n. Something constructive but hard to control; a fresh of
breath air (sic). That's another Tandem Memos. A phrase to worry middle
management. It refers to the computer-based conference (widely
distributed in 1981) in which many technical personnel expressed
dissatisfaction with the tools available to them at that time, and also
constructively criticized the way products were [are] developed. The
memos are required reading for anyone with a serious interest in quality
products. If you have not seen the memos, try reading the November 1981
Datamation summary.

.... snip ...

linkedin post
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/john-boyd-ibm-wild-ducks-lynn-wheeler/

early 70s, IBM CEO Learson tries (and fails) to block bureaucrats,
careerists, and MBAs from destroying Watson culture/legacy. Then decade
later, "tandem memos" references some of the problems with non-technical
management. And then two decades after Learson's failed effort, IBM has
one of the largest losses in the history of US corporations and was
being re-orged into the 13 "baby blues" in preparation for breaking up
the company
http://web.archive.org/web/20101120231857/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,977353,00.html
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,977353-1,00.html
had already left IBM, but get a call from the bowels of (IBM corporate
hdqtrs) Armonk asking if could help with breakup of the company.
However, before getting started, the board brings in the former AMEX
president as new CEO, who (somewhat) reverses the breakup.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:49:45 +0200, D wrote:

> What was/is plato notes?

A proprietary system only ever available on expensive CDC mainframes.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 11:50:30 -1000, Lynn Wheeler wrote:

> ... a fresh of breath air (sic).

Sounds like another name for mouth spray.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:49:45 +0200, D wrote:
>
>> What was/is plato notes?
>
>A proprietary system only ever available on expensive CDC mainframes.

A useless answer. You could have referred to the wiki page.

There were hundreds of remote terminals[*] at colleges and universities
from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Many thousands of students used
it for both computer aided education and to learn programming and to
play games. DnD and Empire were notable games of the era. It influenced
the creation of Usenet, email etc.

[*] The CDC host was located in Champaign/Urbana in the state of Illinois.

In article <gXCON.185591$zF_1.90478@fx18.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
>>> and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.
>>>
>>What was/is plato notes?
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

My first exposure to Usenet was either through a PLATO Notes gateway or a
separate system designed to mimic it. This was in 1989 at the University of
Illinois, the home of PLATO. I was using an Apple IIe with a borrowed
300-bps modem in my dorm room, or a dumb terminal or a Mac in the basement
computer lab. I got an Applied Engineering DataLink 2400 while I was home
for Christmas and upgraded my dorm-room connection to that.

Maybe a couple or three months in, I was trying to grab software from
comp.binaries.apple (?) and someone suggested that a real newsreader would
be a better option for the purpose. rn was available, so I switched to that
and never looked back.

I only started calling around to BBSes after I'd already had exposure to the
Internet.

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:49:45 +0200, D wrote:
>>
>>> What was/is plato notes?
>>
>> A proprietary system only ever available on expensive CDC mainframes.
>
> A useless answer. You could have referred to the wiki page.
>
> There were hundreds of remote terminals[*] at colleges and universities
> from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Many thousands of students used
> it for both computer aided education and to learn programming and to
> play games. DnD and Empire were notable games of the era. It influenced
> the creation of Usenet, email etc.
>
> [*] The CDC host was located in Champaign/Urbana in the state of Illinois.
>

Thank you very much Scott. Ahh... I actually visited that place for a
party in my youth when I was studying in Chicago.

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Scott Alfter wrote:

> In article <gXCON.185591$zF_1.90478@fx18.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> I woudn't necessarily say "reigned supreme". Usenet preceeded the BBBs
>>>> and Plato Notes preceeded usenet.
>>>>
>>> What was/is plato notes?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)
>
> My first exposure to Usenet was either through a PLATO Notes gateway or a
> separate system designed to mimic it. This was in 1989 at the University of
> Illinois, the home of PLATO. I was using an Apple IIe with a borrowed
> 300-bps modem in my dorm room, or a dumb terminal or a Mac in the basement
> computer lab. I got an Applied Engineering DataLink 2400 while I was home
> for Christmas and upgraded my dorm-room connection to that.
>
> Maybe a couple or three months in, I was trying to grab software from
> comp.binaries.apple (?) and someone suggested that a real newsreader would
> be a better option for the purpose. rn was available, so I switched to that
> and never looked back.
>
> I only started calling around to BBSes after I'd already had exposure to the
> Internet.

My BBS days started with a 9600 bps Hayes modem. A friend father worked as
a programmer at a bank and he was very encouraging when he discovered I
was interested (my friend, his son, was just into music and was never
interested in his fathers work) so he lent me the modem, and gave me a
Pascal book and that was the "real" start of my career in IT.

I had a soft start as well at around age 8 when I had an 8-but Nintendo
and inherited a C64 from my brother, so I did a bit of basic programming
but never anything serious. The C64 was mostly about the games.

On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 14:54:24 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:49:45 +0200, D wrote:
>>
>>> What was/is plato notes?
>>
>>A proprietary system only ever available on expensive CDC mainframes.
>
> A useless answer. You could have referred to the wiki page.

Which they could have found themselves. So clearly they were not after
that.

early 80s, the scientific center wide-area network and corporate network
technology was used for the corporate sponsored univ "BITNET" (which was
also larger than internet for a period)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET
and EARN (bitnet in europe)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Academic_and_Research_Network
https://earn-history.net/technology/the-network/

which spawned something that had some of the features of the internal
network online computer conferencing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 16:39:05 -1000, Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
wrote:
>early 80s, the scientific center wide-area network and corporate network
>technology was used for the corporate sponsored univ "BITNET" (which was
>also larger than internet for a period)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET
>and EARN (bitnet in europe)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Academic_and_Research_Network
>https://earn-history.net/technology/the-network/
>
>which spawned something that had some of the features of the internal
>network online computer conferencing
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV

Ah yes. BITNET was my first use of off-campus communication.
--
Jim

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:49:45 +0200, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> What was/is plato notes?
>>>
>>> A proprietary system only ever available on expensive CDC mainframes.
>>
>> A useless answer. You could have referred to the wiki page.
>>
>> There were hundreds of remote terminals[*] at colleges and universities
>> from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Many thousands of students used
>> it for both computer aided education and to learn programming and to
>> play games. DnD and Empire were notable games of the era. It influenced
>> the creation of Usenet, email etc.
>>
>> [*] The CDC host was located in Champaign/Urbana in the state of Illinois.
>>
>
> Thank you very much Scott. Ahh... I actually visited that place for a
> party in my youth when I was studying in Chicago.
>

There seems to have been a lot going on there at one point. They were also
building the ill-fated ILIAC-4.

--
Pete

On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:16:16 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> ... they were also building the ill-fated ILIAC-4.

You mean the ILLIAC-IV <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILLIAC_IV>, built by
Burroughs?

Hard to see how a research machine could be described as a “failure”,
particularly when so many of the ideas it pioneered were subsequently
adopted elsewhere.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:31:00 -0700, Kurt Weiske wrote:

> (as someone still running a BBS in 2024, I'm definitely interested in
> this event...)
>
> https://computerhistory.org/events/dialed-in/
>
> April 25, 2024 - 7pm online and in person at the Computer History Museum
> in Mountain View, CA.
>
> DIALED IN - the Prehistory of social media
>
> Long before online forums and communities like Reddit and Discord, and
> even before the World Wide Web, bulletin board systems (BBSs) reigned
> supreme. During their heyday in the 1980s and '90s, millions of people
> dialed their modems into more than 100,000 BBSs, and their impact can
> still be felt in today's digital world.
>
> Join us to hear Kevin Driscoll, author of the award-winning book The
> Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media, and technology and society
> expert danah boyd discuss the innovative world of BBSs and how they
> shaped the ongoing evolution of social media and the internet.
>
> What You'll Experience
>
> Hear untold stories of regional and general-interest BBSs, and those for
> groups like HIV/AIDS activists and ham radio users. Learn how BBS
> operators and users developed early forms of community moderation,
> governance, and commercialization. Reflect on the evolution of social
> media and consider lessons for a more inclusive future.

I hated the software that BBSs used. They restricted access
to the many thousand byte text files that seemed interesting,
to 0-5 downloads and then hang you up about Sharing Ratios,
and not being a "leech" (as if there were the same number of
writers as there is of readers). They had many boondoggles
which made you tie up the phone line a long time instead of
serving files which would have taken seconds even on a slow
modem.

I noticed when a few BBS's made a website they did not
restrict how many files you downloaded (or read) from the web,
nor required starting an account to see the webpage.

The restrictive boxed in set up of the BBS was engendered
by the BBS software while the openness of the Web was
engendered by the www software.

So I liked the privacy of using phone lines with BBS,
versus the internet, I hated the obscurantism.

In other words, I didn't find the good BBS's.

> The restrictive boxed in set up of the BBS was engendered
> by the BBS software while the openness of the Web was
> engendered by the www software.

The restrictions on BBS downloads were engendered by the slow transfers
of material in and out, the single-stream nature of most user access and
the cost of the transfers in. Either the users had to provide, or the
sysop had to spend their own money downloading nifty and "novel in the
local area" stuff from elsewhere. Guess which was more likely to keep
your BBS alive.

The (lack of) restrictions on web downloads were engendered by the
relatively fast transfers in and out, and the multi-stream nature of
user downloads. The BBS as a source of novel files was heavily diluted
by the fact that any local files were likely available from many other
internet sources, none of which were a long distance call away. The
unique aspect of a BBS was reduced to local discussions. The rise of
microblogging and one button emoji responses to texts, emails, and toots
should tell you everything you need to know about why that aspect of
internet BBSs was successful in very few places.

Eventually, network bandwidth revived download restrictions, in the form
of monthly transfer caps on hosted sites and cable modems, or 95th
percentile (and similar) bandwidth charges. There's a solid reason why
organizations like Walnut Creek, FreeBSD and Debian have depended
heavily on sponsorship by network providers to be able to do what they
do.

De