Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 07.01.24 00:51, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
>> On 1/6/24 4:16 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2024-01-06 16:45:27 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Jan 6, 2024 at 11:28:07 AM EST, "Colour Sergeant Bourne"
>>>> <bourne@rorke.za>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds to me like well developed and then executed strategies and
>>>>> tactics. I tried to do things like that when I ran my own small business
>>>>> but was never anywhere close.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the American way. Let the best man win.
>>>>>
>>>>> They're being persecuted for their own success. If the other guys can't
>>>>> compete, tough nougies...
>>>>
>>>> Exactly correct. As the judge said when dismissing the claims made by
>>>> Epic
>>>> against Apple, "Being successful is not illegal".
>>>
>>> Being successful isn't illegal, but forcing customers, both users and
>>> developers, to *only* use your App Store (unless they jailbreak the
>>> device) may well be considered "wrong".
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah but only by do-gooder bed-wetting liberals with no understanding of
>> how a successful capitalistic economy works ;-)
>
> And you think you know it? Look at the per capita GDP and the life
> expectancy of Japan and Western European countries. Not really positive
> for your "darwinistic capitalist economy".
>

GDP throughout the United States' sodomite Empire is fake and gay. This
includes Western Europe.

There is more capitalism in China than there is in America.

Using <news:unftb0$1e1fh$1@dont-email.me>, Your Name wrote:

>> Android doesn't require an additional account just to send its messages.
>
> "iMessage" encmopasses two different things.
>
> The iMessage service is indeed like WeChat, WhatsAp, etc. in that you
> have to have an Apple account and be logged in.
>
> The iMessage app, can and does send and receive normal SMS messages
> without needing to be logged into anything (other than using your phone
> provider's SIM account of course, just like every other mobile phone on
> the planet).

Thank you for that necessary distinction which makes the Apple messaging
slightly different from WeChat or WhatsApp in two ways, one of which it is
pre-installed on all iPhones and the other is it can do normal SMS/MMS too.

In a way Apple's messaging is the best of both worlds in that it can
communicate with anyone who logs into Apple proprietary servers but it can
also communicate with anyone who does not log into the proprietary servers.

The disadvantage is the Apple services requires an additional account to
talk to other Apple users that the Android messaging does not need.

On 2024-01-08 05:36:05 +0000, david said:

> Using <news:unftb0$1e1fh$1@dont-email.me>, Your Name wrote:
>
>>> Android doesn't require an additional account just to send its messages.
>>
>> "iMessage" encmopasses two different things.
>>
>> The iMessage service is indeed like WeChat, WhatsAp, etc. in that you
>> have to have an Apple account and be logged in.
>>
>> The iMessage app, can and does send and receive normal SMS messages
>> without needing to be logged into anything (other than using your phone
>> provider's SIM account of course, just like every other mobile phone on
>> the planet).
>
> Thank you for that necessary distinction which makes the Apple messaging
> slightly different from WeChat or WhatsApp in two ways, one of which it is
> pre-installed on all iPhones and the other is it can do normal SMS/MMS too.
>
> In a way Apple's messaging is the best of both worlds in that it can
> communicate with anyone who logs into Apple proprietary servers but it can
> also communicate with anyone who does not log into the proprietary servers.
>
> The disadvantage is the Apple services requires an additional account to
> talk to other Apple users that the Android messaging does not need.

You do not need an Apple account to send or receive normal SMS
messages. Like every other mobile phone on the planet, you only need a
telecoms company SIM account.

"If you don't sign in to iMessage, then you are limited
to only sending SMS messages via your cellular service
provider, and cannot send iMessages to other Apple
devices. You will only be sending SMS messages to Apple
and non-Apple devices alike."

<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251577402>

You only need the Apple account if you want to send / recieve the
fancier iMessage format.

Of course, when you set-up your iPhone, you automatically set-up a free
Apple ID as well, so you already have the Apple services account anyway.

Using <news:ung4ie$1eq95$1@dont-email.me>, Your Name wrote:

> You do not need an Apple account to send or receive normal SMS
> messages. Like every other mobile phone on the planet, you only need a
> telecoms company SIM account.
>
> "If you don't sign in to iMessage, then you are limited
> to only sending SMS messages via your cellular service
> provider, and cannot send iMessages to other Apple
> devices. You will only be sending SMS messages to Apple
> and non-Apple devices alike."
>
> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251577402>
>
> You only need the Apple account if you want to send / recieve the
> fancier iMessage format.
>
> Of course, when you set-up your iPhone, you automatically set-up a free
> Apple ID as well, so you already have the Apple services account anyway.

Thank you for correcting that, which makes the Apple messaging even more
the best of both worlds because if you don't want to create that Apple
account, you can still use the phone like Android users use it for SMS/MMS.

If you want to create & log into an Apple account, then Apple messaging
becomes the same as WeChat & WhatsApp but you don't have to log into any
Apple account in which case it's the same as the Android messaging is.

I think Apple covered all bases for all people with that design, don't you?

On this Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:01:46 -0500, Anonymous wrote:

> There is more capitalism in China than there is in America.

Foxconn Technology Group's Zhengzhou is the world's largest iPhone factory.

david <this@is.invalid> wrote:
> Using <news:ung4ie$1eq95$1@dont-email.me>, Your Name wrote:
>
>> You do not need an Apple account to send or receive normal SMS
>> messages. Like every other mobile phone on the planet, you only need a
>> telecoms company SIM account.
>>
>> "If you don't sign in to iMessage, then you are limited
>> to only sending SMS messages via your cellular service
>> provider, and cannot send iMessages to other Apple
>> devices. You will only be sending SMS messages to Apple
>> and non-Apple devices alike."
>>
>> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251577402>
>>
>> You only need the Apple account if you want to send / recieve the
>> fancier iMessage format.
>>
>> Of course, when you set-up your iPhone, you automatically set-up a free
>> Apple ID as well, so you already have the Apple services account anyway.
>
> Thank you for correcting that, which makes the Apple messaging even more
> the best of both worlds because if you don't want to create that Apple
> account, you can still use the phone like Android users use it for SMS/MMS.
>
> If you want to create & log into an Apple account, then Apple messaging
> becomes the same as WeChat & WhatsApp but you don't have to log into any
> Apple account in which case it's the same as the Android messaging is.
>
> I think Apple covered all bases for all people with that design, don't you?
>

I have family overseas and we communicate by WhatsApp. Some of them use
iPhones and I ask why don’t they use iMessage, but they have turned off
that feature because everyone else around them only uses WhatsApp. I’m not
even sure they use SMS other than for two-factor authentication or other
similar things. Personally I don’t like to use WhatsApp because it’s part
of Facebook which I’ve never had an account, but now I’m forced to use
WhatsApp if I want to be part of the family group chat.

As has been mentioned, Apple Messages is compatible with SMS, MMS,
iMessage. Although you needn’t use iMessage service and can still use
SMS/MMS, you still need to be logged into Apple’s system with your account
to use the iPhone. This was done when you originally set up the phone for
first use. I assume the same is true for Android.

On 2024-01-08 01:59, david wrote:

> If you want to create & log into an Apple account, then Apple messaging
> becomes the same as WeChat & WhatsApp <s>

Logging into one's Apple account is about a lot more than Messages -
that is the glue of the Apple eco system when one has, eg: an iPhone, a
Mac, perhaps an iPad and Watch ... etc.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-01-08 02:13, Charlie wrote:
> On this Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:01:46 -0500, Anonymous wrote:
>
>> There is more capitalism in China than there is in America.
>
> Foxconn Technology Group's Zhengzhou is the world's largest iPhone factory.

And Apple are reducing their production in China. Because it is a
dictatorship and unpredictable as a business environment. Other
companies are on/near shoring production (North America and to a lesser
extent, Europe) further reducing China's productivity. Add to that the
several massive, highly leveraged and non-revenue producing projects
that China has invested in (the banks backed by the government and some
external capital) and China will also be capital starved going forward.
Here are 3 examples:

I - Commercial realm: apartment building complexes left unfinished -
even being torn down long before completion; "Tofu-dreg" construction
(shoddy materials and methods). This has drained people's savings.

II - Government/Private: high speed rail network with over $1T invested.
Few can afford to travel on it. Banks want their payments, however.

III -Government: Belts and Roads initiative. China's strategic
investments in Asia, Africa and South America to establish ports,
airports and rail.
Much of the money loaned to these countries was spent on Chinese
engineering, construction companies and Chinese labour, but these
countries are on the hook to pay the loan to the Chinese government -
they don't have the cash to pay it and these projects have not generated
much revenue [But China gains military "port" and "airport" access].

Peak China has passed. They are demographically self screwed and their
economy will dwindle going forward.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-01-08, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2024-01-08 03:25:10 +0000, david said:
>> Using <news:xn0ogjzn5z5acr4009@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>> badgolferman wrote:
>>
>>>> In that important sense of requiring everyone being on that central
>>>> account, the Apple Messages is no different than WhatsApp and WeChat.
>>>>
>>>> Android doesn't require an additional account just to send its
>>>> messages.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about the rest you mentioned though. Are they too like
>>>> the WeChat, WhatsApp and Apple messaging system that they require
>>>> both people to be on the same type of logged-into account any time
>>>> they use the app?
>>>
>>> Those are closed messaging systems. To my knowledge Android uses the
>>> SMS protocol which is open and also accessible to iMessage. WhatsApp,
>>> Messenger, WeChat, etc. do not work with SMS protocol.
>>
>> I think we're saying the same thing, which is Apple's messaging is no
>> different in any way than any other closed messaging system such as WeChat
>> and WhatsApp (I wasn't sure about the other ones which were mentioned).
>>
>> Since Apple's messaging is just like WeChat & WhatsApp in being a closed
>> messaging system, that's quite DIFFERENT from Android messaging.
>>
>> Android doesn't require an additional account just to send its messages.
>
> "iMessage" encmopasses two different things.
>
> The iMessage service is indeed like WeChat, WhatsAp, etc. in that you
> have to have an Apple account and be logged in.
>
> The iMessage appi

No, that's just called "Messages"

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JR