On 2024-02-21 11:36, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [Disclaimer: Yes, I said EOD, but it took a while for this mind-boggler
> to sink in.]
>
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-21 05:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-20 15:52, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [...]
>
>>>>> I said my real birthday is in my Google *Account*. You apparently
>>>>> assumed that's public info, but it isn't.
>>>>
>>>> I never claimed it was public info. But it is info Amazon have (and use
>>>> and sell). You were a fool to give that up to them.
>>>
>>> Huh? Amazon? What stuff are you on? I never mentioned Amazon.
>>
>> Quite right. As I'm on this thread I'm also shopping for parts on Amazon
>> - fuddled my message. Astounding that I can find a Chinese co. making
>> replacement parts for a near 30 year old American made tool - and it's
>> here a few days later...
>
> You're not serious, are you!?
>
> Here you are lecturing someone, who is using a tightly controlled
> Google Account, on the alleged severe privacy risks of such use, while

Tightly controlled in your opinion. Sort of like canoeing on a calm
river w/o knowing what is below.

> you are shopping at *Amazon*!

Who doesn't? And Amazon know less about me than Google other than the
trivial amount of purchases I do at Amazon. (about $500 / year - maybe).

>
> So Amazon having, using and selling your personal information is
> perfectly fine in your book, but if (you say) Google does so, it's the
> end of the world as we know it!?

>
> Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
>
> And you say you use *Google* *Maps*! Bad boy, bad boy, bad bad boy!

I use all sorts of maps. For short trips Apple is better (for me) for
longer trips, Google is better - and certainly has better content w/r to
merchants, hotels, restaurants, etc.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-02-21 11:36, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > [Disclaimer: Yes, I said EOD, but it took a while for this mind-boggler
> > to sink in.]
> >
> > Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >> On 2024-02-21 05:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2024-02-20 15:52, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>> I said my real birthday is in my Google *Account*. You apparently
> >>>>> assumed that's public info, but it isn't.
> >>>>
> >>>> I never claimed it was public info. But it is info Amazon have (and use
> >>>> and sell). You were a fool to give that up to them.
> >>>
> >>> Huh? Amazon? What stuff are you on? I never mentioned Amazon.
> >>
> >> Quite right. As I'm on this thread I'm also shopping for parts on Amazon
> >> - fuddled my message. Astounding that I can find a Chinese co. making
> >> replacement parts for a near 30 year old American made tool - and it's
> >> here a few days later...
> >
> > You're not serious, are you!?
> >
> > Here you are lecturing someone, who is using a tightly controlled
> > Google Account, on the alleged severe privacy risks of such use, while
>
> Tightly controlled in your opinion. Sort of like canoeing on a calm
> river w/o knowing what is below.

Yadda yadda yadda! Don't you get tired of your FUD, urban legends,
innuendo, etc.? You migh (not) want to try some proof, facts, etc. some
time.

Anyway, with you shopping at Amazon, you've shown that we should not
take your stance on privacy issues all that seriously.

> > you are shopping at *Amazon*!
>
> Who doesn't? And Amazon know less about me than Google other than the
> trivial amount of purchases I do at Amazon. (about $500 / year - maybe).

I don't. Your purchases can tell a lot about you and because (you say)
Amazon uses and sells your data, you're doomed, or at least so you keep
telling me/us.

> > So Amazon having, using and selling your personal information is
> > perfectly fine in your book, but if (you say) Google does so, it's the
> > end of the world as we know it!?
>
> > Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
> >
> > And you say you use *Google* *Maps*! Bad boy, bad boy, bad bad boy!
>
> I use all sorts of maps. For short trips Apple is better (for me) for
> longer trips, Google is better - and certainly has better content w/r to
> merchants, hotels, restaurants, etc.

Yes, I've read how you use Google Maps. So now Google also has all
that location data on you, where you've been, when, for how long, etc.,
etc.. Did I already mention you're doomed?

On 2024-02-22 05:43, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Anyway, with you shopping at Amazon, you've shown that we should not
> take your stance on privacy issues all that seriously.

What Amazon knows about me is a pale shadow of what Google knows about you.

Face it. You have 0 clue what Google collect about you.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-02-22 05:43, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Anyway, with you shopping at Amazon, you've shown that we should not
> > take your stance on privacy issues all that seriously.
>
> What Amazon knows about me is a pale shadow of what Google knows about you.

So you keep saying, but you have exactly zilch to back up your
*opinion*, *both* ways.

> Face it. You have 0 clue what Google collect about you.

Because someone on Usenet says so, without providing any proof or
facts? <barf!>

Bottom line: Keep your comments to stuff which you actually *use*.

Message-ID: <ur7ite.ov4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

<http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cur7ite.ov4.1%40ID-201911.user.individual.net%3E>

On 2024-02-22 09:40, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-22 05:43, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Anyway, with you shopping at Amazon, you've shown that we should not
>>> take your stance on privacy issues all that seriously.
>>
>> What Amazon knows about me is a pale shadow of what Google knows about you.
>
> So you keep saying, but you have exactly zilch to back up your
> *opinion*, *both* ways.
>
>> Face it. You have 0 clue what Google collect about you.
>
> Because someone on Usenet says so, without providing any proof or
> facts? <barf!>

The old "ridicule it and it will go away retort" is tired and weak.
Esp. as Google have had 2+ decades to accumulate data on you (and still do).

And (pro tip) their use of what they know about you is not restricted to
ads. That is only part of it.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-02-22, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-02-22 09:40, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-22 05:43, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> Anyway, with you shopping at Amazon, you've shown that we should not
>>>> take your stance on privacy issues all that seriously.
>>>
>>> What Amazon knows about me is a pale shadow of what Google knows about you.
>>
>> So you keep saying, but you have exactly zilch to back up your
>> *opinion*, *both* ways.
>>
>>> Face it. You have 0 clue what Google collect about you.
>>
>> Because someone on Usenet says so, without providing any proof or
>> facts? <barf!>
>
> The old "ridicule it and it will go away retort" is tired and weak.
> Esp. as Google have had 2+ decades to accumulate data on you (and still do).
>
> And (pro tip) their use of what they know about you is not restricted to
> ads. That is only part of it.

Direct line to NSA and GCH being included in that list.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Alan Browne, 2024-02-18 21:26:

> On 2024-02-18 14:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>>>> Well - Microsoft Edge and Bing are not considered a "core platform
>>>> service" due to their low market share.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please cite where those are the reasons the newly sober European
>>> Commission made that decision.
>>
>> Well - that's the only logical reason. A system which is only used by
>> 3-5% of all users can hardly be seen as "core platform service".
>
> IOW you don't know why, precisely, they made this decision.

Correct. But I don't see any other reason. Why else should one decide if
a service is a "core platform" if not because market share?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:

[...]
> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.

In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
other choice.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:

[...]
> These are computers.
> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.

Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
on iOS. Good luck trying to convince dozens of other people to install
your favourite messenger instead to keep in touch with you.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

sms, 2024-02-20 00:07:

> On 2/19/2024 9:14 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I read and understood what sms said which if it's true, means the decision
>> to buy an iPhone is based on absurd criteria, since it's ridiculous to
>> choose a platform by a single default app, such as a browser or messenger.
>>
>> I'm not saying people don't do it.
>> I'm saying it's an absurd reason for choosing a platform.
>
> It is not absurd.
>
> I have a niece who's husband's relative works for Samsung. For years she
> was using Samsung phones that she could buy at a huge discount. Suddenly
> she switched to iPhone. She said that the reason was that all the
> parents their kids' sports teams used iMessage to communicate things
> like schedules, who was responsible for bringing drinks and snacks,
> carpool arrangements, etc.. She was in no position to try to convert
> everyone else to use WhatsApp, Signal, Slack, or whatever. So she
> capitulated for a very non-absurd reason.
>
> These days she could use something like AirMessage but that is a system
> that she would not know how to set up. They are not poor and have no
> problem spending more money on iPhones.

Well - AirMessage is not trivial to install. You need a running mac (at
least in a VM) and a gateway program:

<https://airmessage.org/install/>

Also the app for Android was last updated end of 2022:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.tagavari.airmessage>

No update in more than a year? Is this thing still supported at all?
Looks more like a proof of concept to me.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-02-25 14:30, Arno Welzel wrote:
> sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:
>
> [...]
>> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
>> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
>> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.
>
> In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
> iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
> getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
> platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
> other choice.

What do you mean "there is just no other choice"?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>
> [...]
>> These are computers.
>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>
> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only

False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
execute the SMS/MMS communication.

> on iOS. Good luck trying to convince dozens of other people to install
> your favourite messenger instead to keep in touch with you.

Another way to see it is that with an iPhone you have both the country
club experience of iOS (aka: the Apple Eco-System) as well as the public
parks of the various messaging systems that are also available on Android.

People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
you have. (the Eco-System).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-02-25 14:37, Arno Welzel wrote:
> sms, 2024-02-20 00:07:
>
>> On 2/19/2024 9:14 AM, Andrew wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I read and understood what sms said which if it's true, means the decision
>>> to buy an iPhone is based on absurd criteria, since it's ridiculous to
>>> choose a platform by a single default app, such as a browser or messenger.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying people don't do it.
>>> I'm saying it's an absurd reason for choosing a platform.
>>
>> It is not absurd.
>>
>> I have a niece who's husband's relative works for Samsung. For years she
>> was using Samsung phones that she could buy at a huge discount. Suddenly
>> she switched to iPhone. She said that the reason was that all the
>> parents their kids' sports teams used iMessage to communicate things
>> like schedules, who was responsible for bringing drinks and snacks,
>> carpool arrangements, etc.. She was in no position to try to convert
>> everyone else to use WhatsApp, Signal, Slack, or whatever. So she
>> capitulated for a very non-absurd reason.
>>
>> These days she could use something like AirMessage but that is a system
>> that she would not know how to set up. They are not poor and have no
>> problem spending more money on iPhones.
>
> Well - AirMessage is not trivial to install. You need a running mac (at
> least in a VM) and a gateway program:
>
> <https://airmessage.org/install/>
>
> Also the app for Android was last updated end of 2022:
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.tagavari.airmessage>
>
> No update in more than a year? Is this thing still supported at all?
> Looks more like a proof of concept to me.

It's a nothing burger. So unsuccessful that Apple have not even had to
pay attention to killing it as they did with Beeper Mini.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 25. Feb 2024 at 20:31:55 CET, "Arno Welzel" <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
wrote:

> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
> on iOS. Good luck trying to convince dozens of other people to install
> your favourite messenger instead to keep in touch with you.

There is always choice.
I know a lot of people who use WhatsApp.
That´s a no go from me, so I choose not to participate in those groups.

Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:

> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>
>> [...]
>>> These are computers.
>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>
>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>
> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
> execute the SMS/MMS communication.

Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
you also can't join group conversions.

Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.

[...]
> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
> you have. (the Eco-System).

I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2/25/2024 11:37 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:

<snip>

> Well - AirMessage is not trivial to install. You need a running mac (at
> least in a VM) and a gateway program:

Actually it was quite easy to install, and I am not a Mac person by any
means. But yes, it did require that I acquire a Mac of some sort. I
could have done a Hackintosh but instead I bought a used Mac Mini for
$100. It's in my wiring closet. It's set to power-on automatically in
case of a power interruption. No mouse, keyboard, or monitor are
necessary once it's set up.

> <https://airmessage.org/install/>
>
> Also the app for Android was last updated end of 2022:
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.tagavari.airmessage>
>
> No update in more than a year? Is this thing still supported at all?
> Looks more like a proof of concept to me.

It works fine. No updates have been needed. Not every app needs constant
updating to work.

I have a few contacts who insist on using iMessage and this was the
easiest way to accommodate them.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 21:56:

> On 2024-02-25 14:30, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:
>>
>> [...]
>>> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
>>> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
>>> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.
>>
>> In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
>> iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
>> getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
>> platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
>> other choice.
>
> What do you mean "there is just no other choice"?

How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
of iMessage without using iMessage?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>
>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> These are computers.
>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>
>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>
>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>
> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
> you also can't join group conversions.
>
> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>
> [...]
>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>
> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.

All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".

On 2024-02-26 21:38, Chris wrote:
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> These are computers.
>>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>>
>>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>>
>>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>>
>> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
>> you also can't join group conversions.
>>
>> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
>> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
>> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>>
>> [...]
>>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>>
>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>
> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".

That would be very confusing for me, because my phone accepts a swipe
from right edge to left as "back".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-02-26 13:52, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>
>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> These are computers.
>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>
>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>
>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>
> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
> you also can't join group conversions.

SMS-ers can be part of a group chat, w/o Messages features. It's a
little inelegant. The SMS-er needs to be on the first chat (IIRC).

> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>
> [...]
>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>
> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.

I'll grant that Android's general "back" seems well thought out v. iOS.

As I use a Mac (most of the day at work or home) the integration with my
iPhone is not "great" - it's a necessity for smooth sailing.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-02-26 13:54, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 21:56:
>
>> On 2024-02-25 14:30, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
>>>> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
>>>> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.
>>>
>>> In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
>>> iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
>>> getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
>>> platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
>>> other choice.
>>
>> What do you mean "there is just no other choice"?
>
> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
> of iMessage without using iMessage?

Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-02-26 21:38, Chris wrote:
>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> These are computers.
>>>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>>>
>>>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>>>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>>>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>>>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>>>
>>> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
>>> you also can't join group conversions.
>>>
>>> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
>>> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
>>> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>>>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>>>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>>>
>>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>>
>> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".
>
> That would be very confusing for me, because my phone accepts a swipe
> from right edge to left as "back".

Visually, that seems odd to me. But I guess it comes down to what you're
used to.

On 2024-02-27 11:56, Chris wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-26 21:38, Chris wrote:
>>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> These are computers.
>>>>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>>>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>>>>
>>>>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>>>>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>>>>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>>>>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>>>>
>>>> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
>>>> you also can't join group conversions.
>>>>
>>>> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
>>>> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
>>>> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>>>>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>>>>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>>>>
>>>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>>>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>>>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>>>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>>>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>>>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>>>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>>>
>>> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".
>>
>> That would be very confusing for me, because my phone accepts a swipe
>> from right edge to left as "back".
>
> Visually, that seems odd to me. But I guess it comes down to what you're
> used to.
>

The previous model used a right to left swipe on the home sensor, that
was also the fingerprint sensor (bottom centre of the frontal side), so
when they changed to a gesture on the display, they used the same direction.

Yes, once you get used, anything different is very weird.

Swipe from left edge to centre, also goes back, now that I tried. I did
not remember this.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-02-27 11:56, Chris wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-26 21:38, Chris wrote:
>>>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 22:05:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-02-25 14:31, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>>>> Andrew, 2024-02-19 06:28:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>> These are computers.
>>>>>>>> Picking platforms by default app is as ridiculous as is anyone who does it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well - if you have many friends or collegues who use iMessage then there
>>>>>>> is no choice to use Android. iMessage is not available for Android, only
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False. Messages on iPhone/iOS will communicate with people using
>>>>>> Android via the telco. Indeed, from my Mac I can communicate with
>>>>>> people using Android text messages as my Mac will use my iPhone to
>>>>>> execute the SMS/MMS communication.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes - but the it is just SMS/MMS then and not "iMessage". In particular
>>>>> you also can't join group conversions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course if using plain old SMS/MMS to exchange messages with single
>>>>> person is enough, than there is no reason to get a smartphone at all
>>>>> just for this. Plain old mobile phones provide SMS as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> People don't get iPhones to have the Messages app. They get them for
>>>>>> the overall experience which is further enhanced the more Apple products
>>>>>> you have. (the Eco-System).
>>>>>
>>>>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>>>>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>>>>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>>>>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>>>>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>>>>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>>>>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>>>>
>>>> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".
>>>
>>> That would be very confusing for me, because my phone accepts a swipe
>>> from right edge to left as "back".
>>
>> Visually, that seems odd to me. But I guess it comes down to what you're
>> used to.
>>
>
> The previous model used a right to left swipe on the home sensor, that
> was also the fingerprint sensor (bottom centre of the frontal side), so
> when they changed to a gesture on the display, they used the same direction.
>
> Yes, once you get used, anything different is very weird.
>
> Swipe from left edge to centre, also goes back, now that I tried. I did
> not remember this.

Two "back" gestures? That's very confusing! On iOS right to left gesture so
"forward" and left to right is "back".

Chris, 2024-02-26 21:38:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
[...]
>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>
> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".

It depends where you are and what app you use.

Apple calculator:

Swiping only touches the keys, but you can't go "back" to the homescreen.

MS Outlook:

In general when swiping from the left corner to the right, the app menu
opens.

In the e-mail list: swipes from left to right os "delete message" and
right to left is "archive message".

In the calendar: swiping changes the current day which is displayed.

When the internal "apps" popup is open in Outlook, horizontal swiping is
completely ignored. You can only close the popup again by dragging it down.

In Android, however, going "back" in app also brings you back to the
homescreen. So it is quite confusing, that on an iPhone you must use the
"home" button or a special "home" gesture for this. Yes, Android also
has a "home" gesture nowadays, but there is never the point that you get
stuck in an app because "back" will only lead to the first screen in the
app itself but not further.

In addition in Android apps can call other apps to handle certain
actions (known as "intentions") and for this to work as expected, it is
crucial that "back" also brings you back from one app to another app.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de