rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote

> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
> don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
> six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.

A lot of people believe in myths and superstitions about Apple support.

You are not an iKook so I will be patient and gentle by providing facts
knowing full well there are many people whose belief are imaginary and not
based on any facts whatsoever (e.g., people with religious belief systems).

Hence, before I provide you with heartfelt facts, I state you are welcome
to switch between platforms for reasons that are your own personal ones.

However... what you just said is akin to someone saying they switched from
Toyota to Honda because their tires kept going flat on the Toyota.

What you express as your desires would make sense if you knew what you're
talking about - but unfortunately for you - everything you say - is wrong.

Please do not take this as an insult - just as friendly advice for you to
look up how long Apple supports full hotfixes for that iPhone which you
"think" is supported for "six or more years".

Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple supports
only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes & always has.
https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

By the way, supporting only a single release wouldn't be so bad since Apple
does control the apps - but iOS has ten times the number of exploits too!
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
> customizable... well, anything.

This shows for sure that you're a normal person, and not an iKook given
there are literally thousands (upon thousands!) of useful things that
Android users do every day - which are impossible to do on iOS.

What's surprising to Apple users (who love how well the iPhone works inside
the walled garden) is all that Android customization is done WITHOUT having
to log into a mothership account 24/7 which Apple users do 365 days a year.

The Apple users are unaware that there is nothing by way of app
functionality on the iPhone that isn't already on Android.

They don't understand that the reason is extremely obvious why.
a. Apple restricts the apps that users can install on the iPhone
b. Google can't.

Examples are location spoofing, system-wide firewalls with adblocks,
graphical wi-fi & cellular signal strength debugging, Guardian Tor browser
privacy, bittorrents, customizable app launchers, setting the default
messenger, installing privacy based browsers such as ungoogled chromium,
etc.

The number of useful things that are on _every other platform except iOS_
numbers in the thousands - where you seem to inherently be aware of this.

Good for you, because both you & I used both platforms & I use each
platform daily (which none of the iKooks do) so my advice is factually
sound and true.

> If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
> a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.

Given most Androids sold are probably Samsungs, you already have what you
stated since there are Android phones extent today that have long support.

Bear in mind almost everyone who owns an iPhone is unaware that iOS is a
monolith (only slightly changed in iOS 16) which means not only that Apple
supports only one release at a time - but that the _entire release dies_
the instant Apple puts out a new iOS version. Everything in iOS dies.

By dying, I mean the full support for iOS 16 ceases the instant that iOS 17
is released - which is a support structure NO OTHER OPERATING SYSTEM USES!

Since you're not an iKook, you perhaps will click on the relevant links
which prove that iOS has the _shortest_ support lifecycle in the industry.

UPDATE monoslab vs UPGRADE monoslab vs RAPID SECURITY RESPONSE patch:
https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/

RSR patches:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224

UPGRADES:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222

Note, by way of direct comparison, Microsoft supports _multiple_ Windows
releases at the same time, and for something like almost a decade each.

Also note that, unlike iOS which is a monolith (iOS 16 excepted), that you
can get most of the operating system components (such as hardware drivers)
independently of the operating system - which iOS doesn't allow you to do!

For example, with Android, almost the entire operating system (both drivers
and dozens of fundamental components) are delivered to Androids as old as
version 4.4 (which is when they added the underlying mechanism to do it).

None of the iKooks can comprehend a word I've just heartfully and patiently
explained to you (mainly because they can't fathom the fact that iOS has
the shortest support lifecycle in the industry when you count the entire
system) where I back up every one of my factual claims with URLs which the
iKooks will never read (nor could they understand them) but you might.

Project MainLine (since renamed a few times) for asynchronous updates:
https://www.androidcentral.com/android-12-features-we-love-android-runtime-now-part-project-mainline
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/
https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/

Project Treble for hardware drivers to be updated asynchronously:
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/05/here-comes-treble-modular-base-for.html
https://www.xda-developers.com/tag/project-treble/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/google-hopes-to-fix-android-updates-no-really-with-project-treble/

None of that is possible on iOS - which is why it's a fallacy that iOS has
a long support cycle as iOS, in fact, has the shortest support in the
computer industry (when you count all key components in the system).

Notice two very important points I make, which I make because almost every
iPhone owner believes in a completely imaginary system of what Apple
supports (even you believe iOS support isn't the shortest in the industry).

All operating systems _except for iOS_ update most of their components
forever (e.g., the drivers, the key applications, the underlying modules).

Only iOS supports the entire operating system as a primitive monolithic
blob whose entire system of software & hardware support instantly dies the
moment that a new iOS release comes out!

The fact is *there is no consumer os with _shorter support_ than iOS*

> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.

I have a huge PC monitor where I display the entire Android phone onto it,
using the PC's screen for the sound which gives me full keyboard & mouse
(and most importantly, clipboard) control over Android - for free.

Since I'm a nice guy, and since you're not an iKook, here is a tutorial to
share both your screen and the sound of your phone over WiFi on the Mac.
https://dev.to/equiman/share-your-android-screen-and-audio-on-macos-1p64

If you want a physical keyboard, there are plenty of threads on that too.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/search?q=keyboard

In summary, you are not an iKook so everything I advise you upon is to
purposefully helpfully provide you with the details you need to make
intelligent decisions - which are the kind of decisions adults make.

On 2023-08-31 10:03, Wally J wrote:
> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote
>
>> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
>> don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
>> six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>
> A lot of people believe in myths and superstitions about Apple support.
>
> You are not an iKook so I will be patient and gentle by providing facts
> knowing full well there are many people whose belief are imaginary and not
> based on any facts whatsoever (e.g., people with religious belief systems).
>
> Hence, before I provide you with heartfelt facts, I state you are welcome
> to switch between platforms for reasons that are your own personal ones.
>
> However... what you just said is akin to someone saying they switched from
> Toyota to Honda because their tires kept going flat on the Toyota.
>
> What you express as your desires would make sense if you knew what you're
> talking about - but unfortunately for you - everything you say - is wrong.
>
> Please do not take this as an insult - just as friendly advice for you to
> look up how long Apple supports full hotfixes for that iPhone which you
> "think" is supported for "six or more years".
>
> Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple supports
> only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes & always has.
> https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
> https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

And here's what Arlen won't tell you.

The current version of iOS is 16.6.

And iOS 16.6 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 8...

....which came out in September...

....2017.

And guess what today is!

:-)

On 2023-08-31 10:03, Wally J wrote:
> They don't understand that the reason is extremely obvious why.
> a. Apple restricts the apps that users can install on the iPhone
> b. Google can't.

And yet in another thread, you argued that you couldn't get bad software
because:

"Google sees the source code"

Care to explain?

Wally J wrote:

>Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple
>supports only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes &
>always has.
>https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
>https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-
>flaws-in-latest-os-releases
>https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x. In rare
cases they may make the security patches available for a prior version
of iOS such as 15.x. But to be fair, every iPhone will receive at
least 5-6 full iOS versions, which each will contain updates as they
become available. So that means iPhones will remain fully supported
with security patches over that time span so long as the user upgrades
to each new version of iOS and also downloads the security patches
(hotfixes).

I think you're saying Android does it differently and you don't have to
upgrade to new full versions of the OS, yet you can still receive
security patches even if your phone has the original version. If this
is true, why do you think Android's model is better?

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote

> As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
> for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.

Hi badgolferman,

As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they are.

Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand my response.
Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon ignorant iKooks.

However... I assume you're an adult - with at least normal cognition.

With adults, I provide nuance in detail versus when I speak with kids who
don't have the capacity to comprehend the complex issues I discuss below.

As you're well aware, I know far more about Apple than the iKooks do,
simply because I read reports and I can comprehend the detail in them.

*Specifically, it's a fact Apple says they only fully support 1 release*
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web

Note that's completely different from non-Apple operating systems!
By way of example, M$ fully supports multiple releases, as does Google.

*It's only Apple who says they fully support only a single release*

> In rare
> cases they may make the security patches available for a prior version
> of iOS such as 15.x.

I have a good memory where we've discussed the fact that _every_ operating
system purveyor can (and does) choose to selectively patch the most
egregious of bugs in _any_ release (Android does so way back to 4.4!).

If Apple (& Google & Microsoft) didn't patch the most egregious of bugs in
the older releases, they'd have people throwing their devices over a bridge
just to get rid of them... so it makes sense that _all_ the operating
system purveyors selectively patch whatever they feel is better patched
than left unpatched.

But selectively patching an operating system is like spritzing up a used
car before you sell it by putting a new coat of paint on it to make it more
palatable but it's not the same as fixing all the problems you know of.

> But to be fair, every iPhone will receive at
> least 5-6 full iOS versions, which each will contain updates as they
> become available.

Here is where adults need to engage their innate capacity to comprehend
complexity, badgolferman. The child-like iKooks think there is something
magical about a release number such as iOS 12 versus iOS 13 just as they
think there's something magical about Android 12 versus Android 13.

There isn't anything magical about a release in terms of security updates
on Android, for example, where Android 4.4+ gets the security updates to
more than two dozen Project Mainline modules which form the Android core.
https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/

To compare the way iOS updates to the way Android updates, people need an
adult capacity to comprehend detail - because they update completely
differently.

In its simplest term *iOS updates via a primitive synchronous monolith*.
Android (and all other operating systems) update via asynchronous layers.

If you don't understand how both operating systems update (and clearly,
none of the iKooks has any concept of how either one updates itself), then
you can't make any conclusion about how great you feel it is when you move
from what you call iOS 12 to what you'd call iOS 13, since Android, by way
of comparison (and every other operating system except iOS!) updates from
Android 12 to Android 12 (plus a bit) to Android 12 (plus a bit more) to
Android 12 (plus a bit more than that) to Android 12 (plus even more),
every single day for billions of Android devices around the world on every
manufacturer's platform (whether that's Google, Samsung, Moto or whatever).

Therefore, to claim anything about what you call "five to six full iOS
versions" is completely meaningless when you're talking to someone well
educated on these differences - where you actually believe that "five to si
iOS versions" is somehow (magically?) meaningful - when in that same time
period every other operating system (except iOS!) has updated thousands of
times when iOS has only updated "five to six" times.

Probably you don't understand a word I said above, but "five or six"
versions is a pittance compared to the five or six _thousand_ updates all
other operating systems have undergone in that same time period.

BTW, with iOS 16, Apple has _started_ to move away from its atrociously
primitive monolithic update mechanism, to a step toward what all others do.
RSR patches: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224

> In terms of security patches - So that means iPhones will remain fully supported
> with security patches over that time span so long as the user upgrades
> to each new version of iOS and also downloads the security patches
> (hotfixes).

See above. In the time that iOS updated it's atrociously primitive monolith
"five or six" times, all the other operating systems updated their layered
operating systems five or six _thousand_ times (or something akin to that).

I don't really expect you to understand what I'm trying to explain to you,
as I'm quite well aware I've explained it many times in the past - but
please stop saying that "five or six times" is anything special as Android
does what it takes Apple five or six years to do in about five or six days.

If you can't understand how atrociously primitive the iOS update mechanism
is compared to all other common consumer operating systems, you can't
fathom how utterly meaningless it is for you to claim that "five or six"
iOS updates is a big deal. It's absolutely pitifully worthless.

Which, by the way, is a key reason why iOS has twice as many zero-day bugs
as Android, and ten times as many _exploited_ zero day bugs as Android has.
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

To repeat the point in child-like terms, in the time it takes Apple to
update five or six iterations of iOS, all the other operating systems have
updated their operating systems something like five or six thousand times.

> I think you're saying Android does it differently and you don't have to
> upgrade to new full versions of the OS, yet you can still receive
> security patches even if your phone has the original version.

You have to understand I speak with the iKooks like I speak to a five year
old, where I am forced by their complete lack of adult compressive skills
to dumb down the messaging to something a person of IQ 40 understands.

Here are some of those dumbed-down points I make to the child-like iKooks.
a. Android and iOS update completely differently.
b. Hence, you can't compare them unless you understand how they update.
c. iOS updates periodically in synchronous layers (the new RSRs excepted)
d. While Android updates thousands of times a year in asynchronous layers
e. So do all other operating systems except Apple operating systems.

Your choice.

> If this is true, why do you think Android's model is better?

You choose what you'd rather have given how primitive iOS updates are.

*You could choose iOS which has _ten times the exploits_ of Android*
*And, *iOS has more than twice as many zero-day holes_ than Android*
... or ...
*You can choose Android which is far safer and far more secure*
*Where the Android malware component is ameliorated by daily scans*

Your choice.

On 2023-09-01, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
>> for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
>
> Hi badgolferman,
>
> As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
> No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
> are.
>
> Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand

> my response. Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
> ignorant iKooks.

....goes on to repeat the same "iKooks are mentally children who don't
know as much as me" bullshit he's been slinging for literal years...

Arlen is and always will be a fucking clown. 🤣

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 9/1/23 5:54 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-01, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
>>> for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
>>
>> Hi badgolferman,
>>
>> As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
>> No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
>> are.
>>
>> Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand
>
>> my response. Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
>> ignorant iKooks.
>
> ...goes on to repeat the same "iKooks are mentally children who don't
> know as much as me" bullshit he's been slinging for literal years...
>
> Arlen is and always will be a fucking clown. 🤣
>
And he's more of a celibate clown I bet.

On 2023-09-01 20:54, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-01, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
>>> for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
>>
>> Hi badgolferman,
>>
>> As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
>> No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
>> are.
>>
>> Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand
>
>> my response. Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
>> ignorant iKooks.
>
> ...goes on to repeat the same "iKooks are mentally children who don't
> know as much as me" bullshit he's been slinging for literal years...
>
> Arlen is and always will be a fucking clown. 🤣

That's pretty insulting to all those magnificent fucking clowns out there.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-09-01 23:24, RocketSurgeon wrote:
> On 9/1/23 5:54 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-09-01, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
>>>> for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
>>>
>>> Hi badgolferman,
>>>
>>> As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
>>> No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
>>> are.
>>>
>>> Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand
>>
>>> my response.  Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
>>> ignorant iKooks.
>>
>> ...goes on to repeat the same "iKooks are mentally children who don't
>> know as much as me" bullshit he's been slinging for literal years...
>>
>> Arlen is and always will be a fucking clown. 🤣
>>
> And he's more of a celibate clown I bet.

Of the involuntary kind.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

> That's pretty insulting to all those magnificent fucking clowns out there.

Given one of my two goals on this newsgroup is to expose the iKooks for
what they are, note how childish the response from Alan Browne and Jolly
Roger has been - using a kindergarten level of intellect...

Jolly Roger ==> *viciously attacks* anyone saying the truth about Apple
nospam ==> *deflects all truth* to blame Samsung for all that Apple does
Alan Browne ==> *so ignorant* he has never even heard of the walled garden

If those three prolific yet uneducated ignorant child-like iKooks left this
newsgroup, the intellectual level would begin to approach that of the adult
operating systems newsgroups (such as with Linux, Android & Windows ngs).

None of the child-like iKooks understood a word of what I explained to
badgolferman - which proves iKooks don't own an adult comprehensive level.

On 2023-09-02 11:25, Wally J wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>
>> That's pretty insulting to all those magnificent fucking clowns out there.
>
> Given one of my two goals on this newsgroup is to...

....set the Usenet record for number of nym changes?