Hello,

I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
interface, etc)

You can read an epitaph (in French) on https://news.alphanet.ch/
(English translation by Google:
https://www-alphanet-ch.translate.goog/nnrp.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

This article is sent automatically as I no longer read USENET.

A Thank you to my users for their fidelity.

Farewell.

On 03 Sep 2023, Marc SCHAEFER <schaefer@alphanet.ch> posted some
news:ud3nfb$ku6$1@shakotay.alphanet.ch:

> Hello,
>
> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
> interface, etc)
>
> You can read an epitaph (in French) on https://news.alphanet.ch/
> (English translation by Google:
> https://www-alphanet-ch.translate.goog/nnrp.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=e
> n&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
>
> This article is sent automatically as I no longer read USENET.
>
> A Thank you to my users for their fidelity.
>
> Farewell.

Thanks for your dedication and services. Enjoy retirement.

Am 04.09.2023 um 06:46:35 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:

> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
> interface, etc)

Why?

Hi,
Marco Moock a tapoté le 04/09/2023 08:36:
> Am 04.09.2023 um 06:46:35 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:
>
>> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
>> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
>> interface, etc)
>
> Why?
>

[Sorry for my bad English.]

You can read the lasts posts on fr.usenet.distribution, you will see the
harasment that he was victim.

--
Stéphane

Am 04.09.2023 um 10:19:45 Uhr schrieb yamo':

> You can read the lasts posts on fr.usenet.distribution, you will see
> the harasment that he was victim.

Can you post a message-id?
I cannot speak French, so I need to translate it.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 11:29:44 +0200
Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am 04.09.2023 um 10:19:45 Uhr schrieb yamo':
>
> > You can read the lasts posts on fr.usenet.distribution, you will see
> > the harasment that he was victim.
>
> Can you post a message-id?
> I cannot speak French, so I need to translate it.
>

I suspect frustration with trying to censor usenet the way he wants it. He says,
It is certain that the right-wing of today's society, the fact that anti-Semitism is once again on the rise and that the representatives of extremists do not hesitate to practice effective disinformation for political purposes, often supported by the countries undemocratic, makes small-scale struggle quite difficult.

I saw in the past nocem cancel messages from him that said covid-fake-news on them so then I thought he had an idea that he should remove thoughts not the same as his own from usenet.

He also says,
Mastodon/fediverse seems to have the upper hand here

which I think is a reference to when they took action to block views opposed to their own.

The idea that he would decide to clean usenet of what he thinks is disinformation is fine if he just keeps it to his own server. Maybe other servers responded to his cancels but probably shouldn't have.

If he can't handle others having opinions different than his maybe he is right and it's time for him to leave for his own sake.

Am 04.09.2023 um 07:59:59 Uhr schrieb Cartman:

> I saw in the past nocem cancel messages from him that said
> covid-fake-news on them so then I thought he had an idea that he
> should remove thoughts not the same as his own from usenet.

Didn't that happen all the time Usenet was accessible for the public?
Everybody can post, no moderation in normal groups, right-wing and
antisemitic exist and will post their ideas.

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 04.09.2023 um 10:19:45 Uhr schrieb yamo':
>
> > You can read the lasts posts on fr.usenet.distribution, you will see
> > the harasment that he was victim.
>
> Can you post a message-id?

Google Groups still allows you to view/browse/search a group:

https://groups.google.com/g/<group_name>

> I cannot speak French, so I need to translate it.

For me, Google Translate offered to translate it (in my case to
English), but that worked only once. Don't know how to get the Google
Translate popup/question back. :-(

BTW, this and other forms of the special Google Groups URLs (courtesy
Marcel Logen in news.software.readers):

<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/jKhjVTx6bT8>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/jKhjVTx6bT8/m/4Zry0MsJAQAJ>g = group
c = thread (conversation)
m = message
Unfortunately, it is not possible to see the original message-id of a
message.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:08:47 +0200
Marco <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am 04.09.2023 um 07:59:59 Uhr schrieb Cartman:
>
> > I saw in the past nocem cancel messages from him that said
> > covid-fake-news on them so then I thought he had an idea that he
> > should remove thoughts not the same as his own from usenet.
>
> Didn't that happen all the time Usenet was accessible for the public?
> Everybody can post, no moderation in normal groups, right-wing and
> antisemitic exist and will post their ideas.
>
Yes it's always been that way. Maybe he got caught up in the recent idea that views opposed to your own are suddenly dangerous or whatever.

Cartman <pesh4481@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:08:47 +0200 Marco <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>>Am 04.09.2023 um 07:59:59 Uhr schrieb Cartman:

>>>I saw in the past nocem cancel messages from him that said
>>>covid-fake-news on them so then I thought he had an idea that he
>>>should remove thoughts not the same as his own from usenet.

>>Didn't that happen all the time Usenet was accessible for the public?
>>Everybody can post, no moderation in normal groups, right-wing and
>>antisemitic exist and will post their ideas.

>Yes it's always been that way. Maybe he got caught up in the recent idea
>that views opposed to your own are suddenly dangerous or whatever.

Is providing an example representing your position verboten or is
slamming someone without that example required as free speech?

There is a lot of political crap posted to Usenet. It isn't necessarily
hate speech, but it's crossposted or multiposted articles posted on the
Web that the Usenet poster ripped off. Reposting what someone else wrote
without permission, sometimes without citation which makes it plagarism,
isn't contributing to discussion. I find it largely unwelcome. It
doesn't matter if I agree with the actual author's views or not. I don't
want to see political crap if I'm reading about food, as an example.

If the articles were posted through HIS server, he absolutely gets to
enforce it. And if NoCeMs are distributed by him, that's a suggestion,
not censorship.

Given that in the precursor article you called NoCeMs "cancel messages",
your points are NOT well taken and I have a feeling that you're lying. A
cancel message is a specific type of control message. NoCeMs aren't
control messages of any kind. They are absolutely not cancel messages.

Cancel messages issued in major quantities can be denial of service
attacks so no one legitimate issues them and servers generally will not
act upon them or will just junk them to keep their servers from being
overwhelmed even if they are rejected.

I'll bet you knew all this and I'll bet you damn well understand that
NoCeMs aren't cancel messages.

In article <ud3nfb$ku6$1@shakotay.alphanet.ch>, schaefer@alphanet.ch
says...
>
> Hello,
>
> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
> interface, etc)

Sorry to hear it, Marc. Wishing you the best in your future endeavours.

Rayner

Hi Good Guy,

>> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
>> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
>> interface, etc)
>
> Why 22nd September? Why not today - 4th September 2023?

Very probably to give his users some time to migrate to another news
service.

> What's the point
> of having a server that has absolutely nothing of value to read? All the
> important posts are censored so nobody is interested in that server.

That's not true. Alphanet is a valuable and well-known server (at least
in Francophone countries). Marc created it in 1990 and have provided
several useful services since then. His involvement in the
French-speaking Usenet community is huge, and he personally is a very
good-hearted and caring person.

> RIP and hope you don't start another hobby and abandon half way just
> because you lost interest and don't have any energy to reinvent yourself.

That's not kind of you. Continuous harassment made him take the
decision to get away from Usenet.

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Ira furor breuis est. » (Horace)

In article <ud548l.kts.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> For me, Google Translate offered to translate it (in my case to
>English), but that worked only once. Don't know how to get the Google
>Translate popup/question back. :-(

Message-ID: <ud1oej$ql5$1@shakotay.alphanet.ch>.

Google Translate of Howard Knight's archive:
<URL:https://al-howardknight-net.translate.goog/?ID=169385762800&_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp>

Google Translate of <UR:https://www.alphanet.ch/nnrp.html>
<URL:https://www-alphanet-ch.translate.goog/nnrp.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp>

John
groenveld@acm.org

On 03 Sep 2023, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> posted some
news:ud3tu4$1b2nq$2@dont-email.me:

> Am 04.09.2023 um 06:46:35 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:
>
>> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
>> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
>> interface, etc)
>
> Why?

Take credit where due.

You helped put him in the spotlight by your efforts to restrict the free
speech of others. Your personal likes or dislikes are not representative
of the conversing community at large. You deliberately antagonized others
who then went after the wrong people.

You are attempting to ruin paganini. Why Ivo listens to you is mystifying
as he seems to be a reasonable and bright fellow.

It is people like you who kill Usenet, not those who use it.

I would submit you are a contributor to the demise of Aioe as well.

-
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

On 04.09.23 06:46, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
> interface, etc)
>
> A Thank you to my users for their fidelity.
>
> Farewell.

sad to read this. how is your retention? you have old articles?

please give a read-only access to my ip 213.227.135.51

i'd like to scan vs my server and fetch only missing

thank you!!!

On 04.09.23 06:46, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
> interface, etc)
>
> A Thank you to my users for their fidelity.
>
> Farewell.

sad to read this. how is your retention? you have old articles?

please give a read-only access to my ip 213.227.135.51

i'd like to scan vs my server and fetch only missing

thank you!!!

Am 05.09.2023 um 00:17:06 Uhr schrieb Leonardk:

> You helped put him in the spotlight by your efforts to restrict the
> free speech of others. Your personal likes or dislikes are not
> representative of the conversing community at large. You
> deliberately antagonized others who then went after the wrong people.

Is there anybody here who likes spam, address forgery and trollposts?
This is the content many people block and good NNTP server operators
ban such users.

I like freedom of speech, but spam and name forgery are not part of it.

I haven't seen many post originating from alphanet (only the operator
himself IIRC, but I don't read fr.*).
I don't see how he has been involved in having trolls on his server.

> You are attempting to ruin paganini. Why Ivo listens to you is
> mystifying as he seems to be a reasonable and bright fellow.

I simply asked questions - nothing more. Using a killfile to block
entire servers is the user's choice.

> It is people like you who kill Usenet, not those who use it.

No, nobody wants spammers, name forgers or trolls.
Server like Mixmin or aioe were on the killfile of many, many users in
de.*, because some people massively abused it for trollposts
crossposted to non-related groups.

Am 05.09.2023 um 09:11:44 Uhr schrieb Billy G. (go-while):

> sad to read this. how is your retention? you have old articles?

In another post he said he doesn't read usenet anymore, so maybe
contact him by email.

On 2023-09-04, Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi Good Guy,
>
>>> I am closing the ALPHANET server on the 22th of september 2023,
>>> including all the services (USENET archives, web read-only
>>> interface, etc)
>>
>> Why 22nd September? Why not today - 4th September 2023?
>
> Very probably to give his users some time to migrate to another news
> service.

Actually, 10978th September, 1993, dear fellows.

--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
NOTE: If you're posting from Google Groups, I don't see you!

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am 05.09.2023 um 00:17:06 Uhr schrieb Leonardk:
>
> > You helped put him in the spotlight by your efforts to restrict the
> > free speech of others. Your personal likes or dislikes are not
> > representative of the conversing community at large. You
> > deliberately antagonized others who then went after the wrong people.
>
> Is there anybody here who likes spam, address forgery and trollposts?
> This is the content many people block and good NNTP server operators
> ban such users.
>
> I like freedom of speech, but spam and name forgery are not part of it.
>
> I haven't seen many post originating from alphanet (only the operator
> himself IIRC, but I don't read fr.*).
> I don't see how he has been involved in having trolls on his server.
>
> > You are attempting to ruin paganini. Why Ivo listens to you is
> > mystifying as he seems to be a reasonable and bright fellow.
>
> I simply asked questions - nothing more. Using a killfile to block
> entire servers is the user's choice.
>
> > It is people like you who kill Usenet, not those who use it.
>
> No, nobody wants spammers, name forgers or trolls.
> Server like Mixmin or aioe were on the killfile of many, many users in
> de.*, because some people massively abused it for trollposts
> crossposted to non-related groups.

This conversation illustrates the difference between the authoritarian
and libertarian viewpoints and risks generating more heat than light.

IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but surely
that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions, we might
as well be in a web-forum.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Am 05.09.2023 um 13:12:06 Uhr schrieb Sn!pe:

> IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
> rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but
> surely that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions,
> we might as well be in a web-forum.

Censorship is something like deleting post with a specific opinion or
by specific people.

Removing posts that are intentionally posted to unrelated groups with
forged addresses just to annoy people isn't censorship in my mind.
I don't want that.

If so, every spam filter at server side would be censorship, because
some people might be interested in what spammers want to tell them.

Mixmin didn't offer criteria that makes it able to put only the trolls
in a killfile, it was only possible to complete put Mixmin in the
killfile.
The operator of Mixmin didn't care about name forgery, trollposts and
excessive crossposting at all, unless Hetzner disabled access to the
server.

There is a reason that it was use ~99% by trolls and name forgers, at
least in de.*.

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am 05.09.2023 um 13:12:06 Uhr schrieb Sn!pe:
>
> > IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
> > rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but
> > surely that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions,
> > we might as well be in a web-forum.
>
> Censorship is something like deleting post with a specific opinion or
> by specific people.
>

In your specific opinion. I rest my case.

>
> Removing posts that are intentionally posted to unrelated groups with
> forged addresses just to annoy people isn't censorship in my mind.
> I don't want that.
>
> If so, every spam filter at server side would be censorship, because
> some people might be interested in what spammers want to tell them.
>
> Mixmin didn't offer criteria that makes it able to put only the trolls
> in a killfile, it was only possible to complete put Mixmin in the
> killfile.
> The operator of Mixmin didn't care about name forgery, trollposts and
> excessive crossposting at all, unless Hetzner disabled access to the
> server.
>
> There is a reason that it was use ~99% by trolls and name forgers, at
> least in de.*.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>>Am 05.09.2023 um 00:17:06 Uhr schrieb Leonardk:

>>>You helped put him in the spotlight by your efforts to restrict the
>>>free speech of others. Your personal likes or dislikes are not
>>>representative of the conversing community at large. You
>>>deliberately antagonized others who then went after the wrong people.

>>Is there anybody here who likes spam, address forgery and trollposts?
>>This is the content many people block and good NNTP server operators
>>ban such users.
>>I like freedom of speech, but spam and name forgery are not part of it.

>>I haven't seen many post originating from alphanet (only the operator
>>himself IIRC, but I don't read fr.*).
>>I don't see how he has been involved in having trolls on his server.

>>>You are attempting to ruin paganini. Why Ivo listens to you is
>>>mystifying as he seems to be a reasonable and bright fellow.

>>I simply asked questions - nothing more. Using a killfile to block
>>entire servers is the user's choice.

>>>It is people like you who kill Usenet, not those who use it.

>>No, nobody wants spammers, name forgers or trolls.
>>Server like Mixmin or aioe were on the killfile of many, many users in
>>de.*, because some people massively abused it for trollposts
>>crossposted to non-related groups.

>This conversation illustrates the difference between the authoritarian
>and libertarian viewpoints and risks generating more heat than light.

>IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
>rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but surely
>that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions, we might
>as well be in a web-forum.

I don't think so. It depends on the nature of the off-topic post.

1) Cancellable spam should be dealt with by spam countermeasures
implemented server-wide. This CANNOT be dealt with by kill file. If the
injecting News site takes no measures to prevent further cancellable
spam from being sent into Usenet, their peers need to seriously consider
whether de-peering is necessary.

2) Forgery must be dealt with at the injecting server. It's not
possible for the reader to deal with by kill file. They should be TOSsed
immediately and not allowed back.

3) Constantly-morphing trolls should be dealt with at the server level.
We get assholes that morph repeatedly in the same thread just to be
annoying. The News administrator should warn them. If they won't behave,
then TOS 'em.

I can be kill filed readily because I never morph. That's not true of
morphing trolls.

4) The constant posters of hate-filled articles might be TOSsed but for
other reasons. More typically, they themselves aren't writing the root
article but infringing upon copyright, reposting it from the Web. They
are crossposting or multiposting or both. That should probably be dealt
with at the injecting server, but that requires a lot of intervention.
If they morph or multi-post, again, that's really not possible to deal
with using a kill file. Cross posting can be dealt with using ordinary
kill file techniques if one has a good newsreader. If one doesn't want
to read political articles in one's non-political newsgroup, then kill
crossposts to *politics* and other known political newsgroups.

5) Trolling without crossposting, multi-posting, or copyright
infringement, without constant morphing, sure, leave that up to the user
to kill file.

There is a unique poster who forges others, re-injecting articles
written by others, AND commits abuse by pre-loading injection headers from
the original article. This blatantly violates RFCs but the injecting
server doesn't prevent it, and other servers are reluctant to junk these
articles in Cleanfeed or its equivalent. Despite not prohibiting this
abuse, no one wants to de-peer this News site. I know what to look for
but most Usenet readers wouldn't. There's nothing to kill file.

No, I've never agreed with Marco Moock, but I don't agree with you that
it's entirely hands off and that News administrators don't need to take
active measures to prevent large categories of abuse.

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>Am 05.09.2023 um 13:12:06 Uhr schrieb Sn!pe:

>>IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
>>rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but
>>surely that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions,
>>we might as well be in a web-forum.

>Censorship is something like deleting post with a specific opinion or
>by specific people.

>Removing posts that are intentionally posted to unrelated groups with
>forged addresses just to annoy people isn't censorship in my mind.
>I don't want that.

>If so, every spam filter at server side would be censorship, because
>some people might be interested in what spammers want to tell them.

>Mixmin didn't offer criteria that makes it able to put only the trolls
>in a killfile, it was only possible to complete put Mixmin in the
>killfile.
>The operator of Mixmin didn't care about name forgery, trollposts and
>excessive crossposting at all, unless Hetzner disabled access to the
>server.

>There is a reason that it was use ~99% by trolls and name forgers, at
>least in de.*.

That's over the top. Exaggeration doesn't help you make your case. I've
seen enough posters using mixmin to know that, yeah, there was plenty of
trolling, enough to kill file it in certain newsgroups, but I never
spotted all that much forgery. It wasn't 99% trolling but it ended up
not being worth the effort to read those who weren't trolls. Those who
weren't trolls had to learn why they weren't being read by some of us
and to find another server to use if they wanted to be read.

AIOE never had that kind of reputation although there was plenty of
forging.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> >>Am 05.09.2023 um 00:17:06 Uhr schrieb Leonardk:
>
> >>>You helped put him in the spotlight by your efforts to restrict the
> >>>free speech of others. Your personal likes or dislikes are not
> >>>representative of the conversing community at large. You
> >>>deliberately antagonized others who then went after the wrong people.
>
> >>Is there anybody here who likes spam, address forgery and trollposts?
> >>This is the content many people block and good NNTP server operators
> >>ban such users.
>
> >>I like freedom of speech, but spam and name forgery are not part of it.
>
> >>I haven't seen many post originating from alphanet (only the operator
> >>himself IIRC, but I don't read fr.*).
> >>I don't see how he has been involved in having trolls on his server.
>
> >>>You are attempting to ruin paganini. Why Ivo listens to you is
> >>>mystifying as he seems to be a reasonable and bright fellow.
>
> >>I simply asked questions - nothing more. Using a killfile to block
> >>entire servers is the user's choice.
>
> >>>It is people like you who kill Usenet, not those who use it.
>
> >>No, nobody wants spammers, name forgers or trolls.
> >>Server like Mixmin or aioe were on the killfile of many, many users in
> >>de.*, because some people massively abused it for trollposts
> >>crossposted to non-related groups.
>
> >This conversation illustrates the difference between the authoritarian
> >and libertarian viewpoints and risks generating more heat than light.
>
> >IMO the choice of whether to read or to ignore another's posts should
> >rest with the reader. It requires competence with a killfile but surely
> >that is far better than censorship. For censored discussions, we might
> >as well be in a web-forum.
>
> I don't think so. It depends on the nature of the off-topic post.
>
> 1) Cancellable spam should be dealt with by spam countermeasures
> implemented server-wide. This CANNOT be dealt with by kill file. If the
> injecting News site takes no measures to prevent further cancellable
> spam from being sent into Usenet, their peers need to seriously consider
> whether de-peering is necessary.
>
> 2) Forgery must be dealt with at the injecting server. It's not
> possible for the reader to deal with by kill file. They should be TOSsed
> immediately and not allowed back.
>
> 3) Constantly-morphing trolls should be dealt with at the server level.
> We get assholes that morph repeatedly in the same thread just to be
> annoying. The News administrator should warn them. If they won't behave,
> then TOS 'em.
>
> I can be kill filed readily because I never morph. That's not true of
> morphing trolls.
>
> 4) The constant posters of hate-filled articles might be TOSsed but for
> other reasons. More typically, they themselves aren't writing the root
> article but infringing upon copyright, reposting it from the Web. They
> are crossposting or multiposting or both. That should probably be dealt
> with at the injecting server, but that requires a lot of intervention.
> If they morph or multi-post, again, that's really not possible to deal
> with using a kill file. Cross posting can be dealt with using ordinary
> kill file techniques if one has a good newsreader. If one doesn't want
> to read political articles in one's non-political newsgroup, then kill
> crossposts to *politics* and other known political newsgroups.
>
> 5) Trolling without crossposting, multi-posting, or copyright
> infringement, without constant morphing, sure, leave that up to the user
> to kill file.
>
> There is a unique poster who forges others, re-injecting articles
> written by others, AND commits abuse by pre-loading injection headers from
> the original article. This blatantly violates RFCs but the injecting
> server doesn't prevent it, and other servers are reluctant to junk these
> articles in Cleanfeed or its equivalent. Despite not prohibiting this
> abuse, no one wants to de-peer this News site. I know what to look for
> but most Usenet readers wouldn't. There's nothing to kill file.
>
> No, I've never agreed with Marco Moock, but I don't agree with you that
> it's entirely hands off and that News administrators don't need to take
> active measures to prevent large categories of abuse.

All fair comment, I can find nothing in your post to disagree with. It
has just occurred to me that as I use Eternal-September with its nicely
sanitised feed, I'm probably not aware of the full extent of this
problem. I'm certainly grateful for the efforts of News admins in
cleaning the feed, I'm sure it isn't a trivial task.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.