1. I wrote up a long thank you message to Bernd Rose.
2. I fatfingered sending it (somehow)
3. It never showed up (anywhere, not even in google archives)

I looked in the three places I was hoping it would be.
1. Sent
2. Outbox
3. Drafts

I then killed Dialog & made a copy of the error log.
Since I already had level 0 set, the log is enormous.

But I can't even find a log of it being deleted.
The question here is can you recover from a deletion?

Ronald <ronald@nospam.me> wrote:

> 1. I wrote up a long thank you message to Bernd Rose.
> 2. I fatfingered sending it (somehow)
> 3. It never showed up (anywhere, not even in google archives)
>
> I looked in the three places I was hoping it would be.
> 1. Sent
> 2. Outbox
> 3. Drafts
>
> I then killed Dialog & made a copy of the error log.
> Since I already had level 0 set, the log is enormous.
>
> But I can't even find a log of it being deleted.
> The question here is can you recover from a deletion?
>

I see this one as your last post, made 16 hours ago; was it a later one?
Message-ID: <unljtd$1ofg5$1@paganini.bofh.team>

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Wed, 10th Jan 2024 19:28:33 -0500, Ronald wrote:

> 1. I wrote up a long thank you message to Bernd Rose.

No need. You are welcome, though, anyways... ;-)

> 2. I fatfingered sending it (somehow)
> 3. It never showed up (anywhere, not even in google archives)
>
> I looked in the three places I was hoping it would be.
> 1. Sent
> 2. Outbox
> 3. Drafts
>
> I then killed Dialog & made a copy of the error log.
> Since I already had level 0 set, the log is enormous.
>
> But I can't even find a log of it being deleted.
> The question here is can you recover from a deletion?

Messages /can/ be recovered from deletion by manually editing the database,
as long as no CompactDatabase was run. To do this, one needs to *exactly*
know the internal structure of the Dialog database. So, for the average
user, messages can /not/ be recovered. That only applies to correctly
received and sent messages and saved drafts, anyways.

Messages in draft without being saved are written from time to time to the
database, though. If you know a (short) exact phrase of the missing text
you can do a text search through all msg*.dat files of the DATA directory.
This way you /may/ be able to recover /some parts/ of the text...

Bernd

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:23:10 +0100, Bernd Rose posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> On Wed, 10th Jan 2024 19:28:33 -0500, Ronald wrote:
>
> > 1. I wrote up a long thank you message to Bernd Rose.
>
> No need. You are welcome, though, anyways... ;-)
>
> > 2. I fatfingered sending it (somehow)
> > 3. It never showed up (anywhere, not even in google archives)
> >
> > I looked in the three places I was hoping it would be.
> > 1. Sent
> > 2. Outbox
> > 3. Drafts
> >
> > I then killed Dialog & made a copy of the error log.
> > Since I already had level 0 set, the log is enormous.
> >
> > But I can't even find a log of it being deleted.
> > The question here is can you recover from a deletion?
>
> Messages /can/ be recovered from deletion by manually editing the database,
> as long as no CompactDatabase was run. To do this, one needs to *exactly*
> know the internal structure of the Dialog database. So, for the average
> user, messages can /not/ be recovered. That only applies to correctly
> received and sent messages and saved drafts, anyways.
>
> Messages in draft without being saved are written from time to time to the
> database, though. If you know a (short) exact phrase of the missing text
> you can do a text search through all msg*.dat files of the DATA directory.
> This way you /may/ be able to recover /some parts/ of the text...
>
> Bernd

Bernd Rose helped me awhile ago and still thank him. He is a good guy.

--
Hiram

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:24:56 -0500, Hiram T Schwantz wrote:

> Bernd Rose helped me awhile ago and still thank him. He is a good guy.

He is. He did. BernD practically wrote my stunnel.conf for Neodome for me.
It works even though this URL tells me that the neodome.net site is down.
https://www.isitdownrightnow.com/news.neodome.net.html

To pay back for BernD's help, I invested a few hours setting up a well
documented stunnel.conf configuration file for the Google Archives to save.
https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/

That way anyone in the future who needs a stunnel.conf example to solve a
similar problem with a different news server can find working examples.
https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers/c/sxkkJYuI728

The stunnel.conf for each common news server should probably be in the
Dialog archives but I think most of them died or are in another language.

These are from my records but most of them I think died long ago.
http://www.40tude.com/dialog/download.htm
http://dialog.datalist.org/index.html
http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/download.html
http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/script_library.html
http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.exe
http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.zip
http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/dialog.41.zip
http://home.arcor.de
http://www.tglsoft.de/freeware_hamster.html
http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/?page=dialog/functionlist
http://4d.vollmeier.at
http://kh-rademacher.de/4d

If someone maintains a Dialog archive of scripts (I think they were all
lost when websites died though), then it can also go there to help others.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:22:01 -0500, Ronald wrote:

> These are from my records but most of them I think died long ago.
[...]
> If someone maintains a Dialog archive of scripts (I think they were all
> lost when websites died though), then it can also go there to help others.

You missed the website from Thomas Barghahn, who not only is the current
hoster of the (German) 40tude Dialog FAQ, but also the most active current
Script author. - Among other things, he greatly enhanced the (already good)
Unicode capabilities of Dialog.

https://www.barghahn-online.de

The 40tude Dialog FAQ:
https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq
The automatic English translation should be sufficiently readable:
https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

HTH.
Bernd

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:22:01 -0500, Ronald <ronald@nospam.me> wrote:
snip
>
>The stunnel.conf for each common news server should probably be in the
>Dialog archives but I think most of them died or are in another language.
>These are from my records but most of them I think died long ago.
> http://www.40tude.com/dialog/download.htm
> http://dialog.datalist.org/index.html
> http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/download.html
> http://dialog.datalist.org/scripts/script_library.html
> http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.exe
> http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.zip
> http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/dialog.41.zip
> http://home.arcor.de
> http://www.tglsoft.de/freeware_hamster.html
> http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/?page=dialog/functionlist
> http://4d.vollmeier.at
> http://kh-rademacher.de/4d
>If someone maintains a Dialog archive of scripts (I think they were all
>lost when websites died though), then it can also go there to help others.

probably most reading in this newsgroup already know about these archived
links, but i only knew about the "barghahn-online.de" link before reading
about this "dialog.datalist.org", which is still available on archive.org:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://dialog.datalist.org/
e.g.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160722170247/http://dialog.datalist.org/
https://web.archive.org/web/20161116055820/http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/download.html
>https://web.archive.org/web/20161116055820/http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.exe
>https://web.archive.org/web/20161116055820/http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/4d2b38.zip
>https://web.archive.org/web/20161116055820/http://dialog.datalist.org/downloads/dialog.41.zip

conveniently, these pages are in english, and the 40tude dialog downloads
appear to (exactly?) match those available on the popular german website:
https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/download.php
https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/download.php?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
>https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/download/4d2b38.exe
>https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/download/dialog_41.zip

On Sat, 13th Jan 2024 23:28:42 +0100 (CET), D wrote:

> probably most reading in this newsgroup already know about these archived
> links, but i only knew about the "barghahn-online.de" link before reading
> about this "dialog.datalist.org", which is still available on archive.org

When keeping the German 40tude Dialog FAQ as a main reference, the addresses
of the archived datalist.org websites (English FAQ and scripts archive) can
be found in the "Links" section:

https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/links.php
https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/links.php?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

-> The German-English auto-translation garbles this to "Left" section.
("Links" is plural of the adaptation from English "link" as well as
singular adverb for the direction "left" in German.) Seems, Google
Translate isn't completely switched to perfect AI, yet. ;-)

> conveniently, these pages are in english, and the 40tude dialog downloads
> appear to (exactly?) match those available on the popular german website

They should. The files on the German FAQ as well as those on datalist.org
both are directly from the original downloads, that the author of the
program (Marcus Mönnig) put up back in the days when he was still active.
But to be sure nothing went wrong and the downloads are not corrupted (or
even tempered with), the downloaded files should be tested against the
checksums provided in the German FAQ:

https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/download.php#hashes
https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/download.php?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Here they are as an additional reference (from my personal archive and not
from the website, yet still identical to them):

Checksums for 4d2b38.exe (complete setup package – version 2.0.15.1):

CRC32: 553801BE
MD5: EEA07F9F5FBFC425F70CD05A48929D2C
SHA1: BE3D3BCCA5777458BABB992A6809BA88D7621B6B

Checksums für Dialog.exe (extracted single program file for the [updated]
version 2.0.15.41) => *Not* for the program file from inside the setup
package - version 2.0.15.1 above!:

CRC32: C0CE3E5C
MD5: 40FB45E107C2341C824A6EF1842A4834
SHA1: AB004819505E9AB0E507FCA410B10966DF142BBF

Checksums for Dialog.exe (extracted single program file for the [updated,
but strongly /not/ recommended] alpha-version 2.0.15.84):

CRC32: FED0A595
MD5: CB9A15EFD1EF6A701466C72BD386B183
SHA1: FC1905051C0C6A522A7F2F20FEA12A5CC576854F

Bernd

On Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:28:06 +0100, Bernd Rose <b.rose.tmpbox@arcor.de> wrote:
>On Sat, 13th Jan 2024 23:28:42 +0100 (CET), D wrote:
>> probably most reading in this newsgroup already know about these archived
>> links, but i only knew about the "barghahn-online.de" link before reading
>> about this "dialog.datalist.org", which is still available on archive.org
>
>When keeping the German 40tude Dialog FAQ as a main reference, the addresses
>of the archived datalist.org websites (English FAQ and scripts archive) can
>be found in the "Links" section:
>https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/links.php
>https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/links.php?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
>-> The German-English auto-translation garbles this to "Left" section.
> ("Links" is plural of the adaptation from English "link" as well as
> singular adverb for the direction "left" in German.) Seems, Google
> Translate isn't completely switched to perfect AI, yet. ;-)
>
>> conveniently, these pages are in english, and the 40tude dialog downloads
>> appear to (exactly?) match those available on the popular german website
>
>They should. The files on the German FAQ as well as those on datalist.org
>both are directly from the original downloads, that the author of the
>program (Marcus M�nnig) put up back in the days when he was still active.
>But to be sure nothing went wrong and the downloads are not corrupted (or
>even tempered with), the downloaded files should be tested against the
>checksums provided in the German FAQ:
>https://www.barghahn-online.de/4td_faq/download.php#hashes
>https://www-barghahn--online-de.translate.goog/4td_faq/download.php?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
>Here they are as an additional reference (from my personal archive and not
>from the website, yet still identical to them):
>Checksums for 4d2b38.exe (complete setup package � version 2.0.15.1):
>
> CRC32: 553801BE
> MD5: EEA07F9F5FBFC425F70CD05A48929D2C
> SHA1: BE3D3BCCA5777458BABB992A6809BA88D7621B6B
>
>Checksums fur Dialog.exe (extracted single program file for the [updated]
>version 2.0.15.41) => *Not* for the program file from inside the setup
>package - version 2.0.15.1 above!:
>
> CRC32: C0CE3E5C
> MD5: 40FB45E107C2341C824A6EF1842A4834
> SHA1: AB004819505E9AB0E507FCA410B10966DF142BBF
>
>Checksums for Dialog.exe (extracted single program file for the [updated,
>but strongly /not/ recommended] alpha-version 2.0.15.84):
>
> CRC32: FED0A595
> MD5: CB9A15EFD1EF6A701466C72BD386B183
> SHA1: FC1905051C0C6A522A7F2F20FEA12A5CC576854F
>
>Bernd

wow! thank you for that very clear information; 40tude dialog seems
so much easier to setup and use than modern newsreaders thunderbird,
betterbird and others; also, the impending closure of google groups'
usenet connection is compounding the search for better alternatives

On Sun, 14th Jan 2024 15:10:01 +0100 (CET), D wrote:

> 40tude dialog seems so much easier to setup and use than modern
> newsreaders thunderbird, betterbird and others

Hm. Easy setup wouldn't be the first thing for me coming to mind with
regard to 40tude Dialog. It needs to be setup outside managed program
folders (or alternatively requires complicated configuration) and it
requires third party programs like sTunnel for contemporary transport
encryption (to protect login credentials and the like).

IMHO, the very usable GUI and the exceptional scripting abilities are
what set 40tude Dialog apart.

Bernd

On Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:21:13 +0100, Bernd Rose <b.rose.tmpbox@arcor.de> wrote:
>On Sun, 14th Jan 2024 15:10:01 +0100 (CET), D wrote:
>> 40tude dialog seems so much easier to setup and use than modern
>> newsreaders thunderbird, betterbird and others
>
>Hm. Easy setup wouldn't be the first thing for me coming to mind with
>regard to 40tude Dialog. It needs to be setup outside managed program
>folders (or alternatively requires complicated configuration) and it
>requires third party programs like sTunnel for contemporary transport
>encryption (to protect login credentials and the like).
>IMHO, the very usable GUI and the exceptional scripting abilities are
>what set 40tude Dialog apart.
>Bernd

writing as a casual but experienced user of these freeware programs,
using omnimix with tor browser makes localhost connect effortlessly
to servers for posting via remailers and downloading via nntp hosts;
this works separately using omnimix own built-in tor, but using tor
browser for visiting tor-friendly websites makes it more convenient,
and 40tude dialog already has the familiar hamster scoring built-in