I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free Windows
offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display onto
an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of those GPX
tracks.

I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it exists.

Garmins basecamp with maps downloaded from your choice

"Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message news:utj6g9$j1bu$1@news.samoylyk.net...

I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free Windows
offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display onto
an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of those GPX
tracks.

I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it exists.

link

https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/software/basecamp/

"Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message news:utj6g9$j1bu$1@news.samoylyk.net...

I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free Windows
offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display onto
an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of those GPX
tracks.

I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it exists.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 12:57:03 -0000, MJP wrote:

> https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/software/basecamp/
>
> "Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message news:utj6g9$j1bu$1@news.samoylyk.net...
>
> I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free Windows
> offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display onto
> an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of those GPX
> tracks.
>
> I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
> caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it exists.

Thanks for the advice of the free Mac/Windows Garmin Basecamp software.
The installer is poorly written, as it doesn't ask where to go.
Later, I'll figure out how to move it to the D: drive later, if possible.

Here are the URLs for the freeware archives.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/
https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4435
https://download.garmin.com/software/BaseCamp_475.exe
Name: BaseCamp_475.exe
Size: 61931328 bytes (59 MiB)
SHA256: 12C753FC067ACB51B4A28CB01946EDFB6A2545E8865FA2A346689526AEBA30CA

I only just now installed it, but it did read in a GPX file.
It displayed it on a blank map without the Internet though.

So I don't know yet if Basecamp works offline with an underlying topo map.
Does it?

you need to get a map of the area needed

try https://extract.bbbike.org/

put the img file on a usb stick

"Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message news:utk4c8$l4df$1@news.samoylyk.net...

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 12:57:03 -0000, MJP wrote:

> https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/software/basecamp/
>
> "Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message
> news:utj6g9$j1bu$1@news.samoylyk.net...
>
> I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free
> Windows
> offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display onto
> an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of those GPX
> tracks.
>
> I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
> caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it exists.

Thanks for the advice of the free Mac/Windows Garmin Basecamp software.
The installer is poorly written, as it doesn't ask where to go.
Later, I'll figure out how to move it to the D: drive later, if possible.

Here are the URLs for the freeware archives.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/
https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4435
https://download.garmin.com/software/BaseCamp_475.exe
Name: BaseCamp_475.exe
Size: 61931328 bytes (59 MiB)
SHA256: 12C753FC067ACB51B4A28CB01946EDFB6A2545E8865FA2A346689526AEBA30CA

I only just now installed it, but it did read in a GPX file.
It displayed it on a blank map without the Internet though.

So I don't know yet if Basecamp works offline with an underlying topo map.
Does it?

MJP wrote:
> you need to get a map of the area needed
>
> try https://extract.bbbike.org/
>
> put the img file on a usb stick
>
> "Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message
> news:utk4c8$l4df$1@news.samoylyk.net...
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 12:57:03 -0000, MJP wrote:
>
>> https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/software/basecamp/
>>
>> "Wolf Greenblatt" wrote in message
>> news:utj6g9$j1bu$1@news.samoylyk.net...
>>
>> I hike random locations where I'd like to know if there is any free
>> Windows
>> offline display and editing apps which import GPX tracks to display
>> onto an offline topographical map and then they allow editing of
>> those GPX tracks.
>>
>> I know about the free online upload & editing of GPX tracks such as
>> caltopo, but I want an offline display and editing program, if it
>> exists.
>
> Thanks for the advice of the free Mac/Windows Garmin Basecamp
> software. The installer is poorly written, as it doesn't ask where to
> go. Later, I'll figure out how to move it to the D: drive later, if
> possible.
> Here are the URLs for the freeware archives.
> https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/
> https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4435
> https://download.garmin.com/software/BaseCamp_475.exe
> Name: BaseCamp_475.exe
> Size: 61931328 bytes (59 MiB)
> SHA256:
> 12C753FC067ACB51B4A28CB01946EDFB6A2545E8865FA2A346689526AEBA30CA
> I only just now installed it, but it did read in a GPX file.
> It displayed it on a blank map without the Internet though.
>
> So I don't know yet if Basecamp works offline with an underlying topo
> map. Does it?

The problem for you is you want free and you are probably not going to find
it offline. At one time Garmin released for pay TOPO U.S. 2008 and you need
something like this display topo maps in BaseCamp or Garmin Mapsource.. I
did see you may be able to purchase a copy of this from Ebay. You can use
GoogleEarth to display your track and then save the screen image.

I use an older pay program called OziExplorer which allows me to use topo
maps downloaded from the USGS site. I then use a free program to convert
the downloaded pdf file into a graphics format. Then you have to calibrate
the map in OziExplorer so your track will properly display. The simplest
answer for you is to purchase a a copy of Garmin TOPO U.S. 2008 and use
BaseCamp and MapSource. By the way what are you using to acquire your
track?

<Bill>

On Fri, 22nd Mar 2024 09:28:07 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> The simplest answer for you is to purchase a a copy of
> Garmin TOPO U.S. 2008

Are you sure, this will still work? Garmin Topo Maps (as well as Garmin
PC software like Garmin Mobile PC) needed to be unlocked online. And
Garmin shut down their activation servers _ages_ ago. (Without the least
concern about and compassion with their paying customers...) We have
15 Topo2010 Germany here, which have been worthless junk since about
2013, IIRC.

I won't answer the original question by Wolf Greenblatt, btw. There's
a multitude of free solutions available. But US people will always start
whining about the offline maps not being original USGS topo. And if one
shows ways to convert these maps for offline use in free programs, they
find other reasons for complaints. (Too complicated scripts, too long
conversion time, and so on.) I'm really fed up with this nonsense. :-(

F-Up set to sgs-n.
(Garmin Topo has nothing to do with either freeware or Win10.
Although sci.geo... is a bit of a stretch, as well.)

Bernd

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:28:07 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

>> So I don't know yet if Basecamp works offline with an underlying topo
>> map. Does it?
>
> The problem for you is you want free and you are probably not going to find
> it offline. At one time Garmin released for pay TOPO U.S. 2008 and you need
> something like this display topo maps in BaseCamp or Garmin Mapsource.. I
> did see you may be able to purchase a copy of this from Ebay. You can use
> GoogleEarth to display your track and then save the screen image.
>
> I use an older pay program called OziExplorer which allows me to use topo
> maps downloaded from the USGS site. I then use a free program to convert
> the downloaded pdf file into a graphics format. Then you have to calibrate
> the map in OziExplorer so your track will properly display. The simplest
> answer for you is to purchase a a copy of Garmin TOPO U.S. 2008 and use
> BaseCamp and MapSource.

I think maps from the USGS site are already geo calibrated so there's no
need to convert (with gpsbabel or the like) to use inside most programs.

But it seems ozi explorer uses a different than normal native format
which has to be separately geo calibrated so that every point is known.
https://www.oziexplorer4.com/img2ozf/img2ozf.html

Luckily ozi seems to supply a converter from geo pdf to ozi native OZF4.
https://www.oziexplorer4.com/img2ozf/img2ozf_setup.exe

Although they also suppy another converter to convert to geo TIFF is seems.
http://www.oziexplorer3.com/utils/image_convert.zip

They suggest GPSbabel for track conversion into ozi explorer plt tracks.
https://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html

Which allows starting from the geo pdf calibrated USGS topo maps.
https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/launch/

The ozi explorer web page touts that version Version 3.95.6f supports
internet maps such as Open Street Map, Google Maps & USA Terraserver Maps
https://www.oziexplorer4.com/eng/internet_maps.html

I installed the suggested free program from http://www.oziexplorer.com/
https://www.oziexplorer4.com/eng/downloads/395/oziexp_setup.exe
Name: oziexp_setup.exe
Size: 8790316 bytes (8584 KiB)
SHA256: 0B8C511B92CF0A4CCA245AC7B306687B159652D0AB312642910DCB790877EECB

> By the way what are you using to acquire your track?

I'm using the normal open source GPS logger for Android from BasicAirData.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger

But I noticed this oziexplorer freeware also has an offline Android app.
https://www.oziexplorer4.com/android/oziexplorer_android.html

Is this about the right sequence to use those USGS geo PDFs with ozi?
1. Convert USGS geo PDF maps to native ozi explorer geo TIF files
2. Convert your GPX tracks to native ozi explorer plt tracks
3. Display the converted plt track on the ozi TIFF or OZF4 topo map

I only used ozi explorer on Android & Windows for a few minutes so I may
have some of that wrong as ozi does things different than most apps do.

But did I get anything wrong above in what I surmised from the ozi site?

Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:28:07 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>
>>> So I don't know yet if Basecamp works offline with an underlying
>>> topo map. Does it?
>>
>> The problem for you is you want free and you are probably not going
>> to find it offline. At one time Garmin released for pay TOPO U.S.
>> 2008 and you need something like this display topo maps in BaseCamp
>> or Garmin Mapsource.. I did see you may be able to purchase a copy
>> of this from Ebay. You can use GoogleEarth to display your track
>> and then save the screen image.
>>
>> I use an older pay program called OziExplorer which allows me to use
>> topo maps downloaded from the USGS site. I then use a free program
>> to convert the downloaded pdf file into a graphics format. Then you
>> have to calibrate the map in OziExplorer so your track will properly
>> display. The simplest answer for you is to purchase a a copy of
>> Garmin TOPO U.S. 2008 and use BaseCamp and MapSource.
>
> I think maps from the USGS site are already geo calibrated so there's
> no need to convert (with gpsbabel or the like) to use inside most
> programs.
>
> But it seems ozi explorer uses a different than normal native format
> which has to be separately geo calibrated so that every point is
> known. https://www.oziexplorer4.com/img2ozf/img2ozf.html
>
> Luckily ozi seems to supply a converter from geo pdf to ozi native
> OZF4. https://www.oziexplorer4.com/img2ozf/img2ozf_setup.exe
>
> Although they also suppy another converter to convert to geo TIFF is
> seems. http://www.oziexplorer3.com/utils/image_convert.zip
>
> They suggest GPSbabel for track conversion into ozi explorer plt
> tracks. https://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html
>
> Which allows starting from the geo pdf calibrated USGS topo maps.
> https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/launch/
>
> The ozi explorer web page touts that version Version 3.95.6f supports
> internet maps such as Open Street Map, Google Maps & USA Terraserver
> Maps https://www.oziexplorer4.com/eng/internet_maps.html
>
> I installed the suggested free program from
> http://www.oziexplorer.com/
> https://www.oziexplorer4.com/eng/downloads/395/oziexp_setup.exe
> Name: oziexp_setup.exe
> Size: 8790316 bytes (8584 KiB)
> SHA256:
> 0B8C511B92CF0A4CCA245AC7B306687B159652D0AB312642910DCB790877EECB
>
>> By the way what are you using to acquire your track?
>
> I'm using the normal open source GPS logger for Android from
> BasicAirData.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger
>
> But I noticed this oziexplorer freeware also has an offline Android
> app. https://www.oziexplorer4.com/android/oziexplorer_android.html
>
> Is this about the right sequence to use those USGS geo PDFs with ozi?
> 1. Convert USGS geo PDF maps to native ozi explorer geo TIF files
> 2. Convert your GPX tracks to native ozi explorer plt tracks

I assume you using Ozi to import your GPX files. It is under the Load
Button.

> 3. Display the converted plt track on the ozi TIFF or OZF4 topo map

There are a lot of other things you can do. If you download and install
DEMs you can plot your trail profile and also other info.

>
> I only used ozi explorer on Android & Windows for a few minutes so I
> may have some of that wrong as ozi does things different than most
> apps do.
>
> But did I get anything wrong above in what I surmised from the ozi
> site?

You definitely got everything. I do not remember how many calibration
points the converter puts in the *.map file but you can always add
calibration points through the program (maybe only registered?). I always
use at least 4 points with one at each map corner. If you get into this you
probably will move on to stitching usge maps together. That is a whole new
process.

I do have the android version on my phone.

<Bill>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 08:43:53 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

>> Is this about the right sequence to use those USGS geo PDFs with ozi?
>> 1. Convert USGS geo PDF maps to native ozi explorer geo TIF files
>> 2. Convert your GPX tracks to native ozi explorer plt tracks
>
> I assume you using Ozi to import your GPX files.
> It is under the Load Button.

Thanks for the advice where there isn't a direct "Load" button in Windows
OziExplorer 3.95.6f but there is a "File > Load from file" which can take a
plt track or a wpt file but not a gpx track (and a evt and txt file too).

There is an import though for GPX & KML in the OziExplorer 3.95.6f menu.
"File > Load from file > Import GPX file"

I imported the GPX file output by the Android BasicAirData GPS Logger app.
Now I just have to put a geotagged topo map underneath as the map data.

>> 3. Display the converted plt track on the ozi TIFF or OZF4 topo map
>
> There are a lot of other things you can do. If you download and install
> DEMs you can plot your trail profile and also other info.

Thanks for the advice where I just now had to look up what "DEMs" means.
https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/offline_dem_data_map

The main thing I want to do is display (and edit) the tracks saved by the
Android open source gps logger app offline on Windows (or on Android).

To display the tracks on a map, I downloaded custom USGS topo areas.
https://www.usgs.gov/tools/national-map-viewer
But I also downloaded specific USGS topo quadrangles.
https://apps.nationalmap.gov/downloader/

That provided me with georeferenced topo PDFs using the instructions here.
https://apps.nationalmap.gov/help/The%20National%20Map%20Viewer%20Quick%20Start%20Guide.htm

Since OziExplorer won't seem to take georeferenced PDFs, I used the
converter on the web site to convert them to georeferenced TIFFs.
./image_convert/ImageConvertOzi.exe
Which ran the following command in the Windows command window.
.\gdal_translate -of GTiff -co COMPRESS=LZW -co "TFW=YES"
"c:\ozi\usgs01.pdf" "c:\ozi\\ozi_converted\usgs01.tif"
.\gdal_translate -of GTiff -co COMPRESS=LZW -co "TFW=YES"
"c:\ozi\usgs02.pdf" "c:\ozi\ozi_converted\usgs02.tif"

Thankfully all USGS PDF topographic maps are easy to calibrate because each
corner is already marked with the DMS geolocated latitude and longitude.

Where an added complication was OziExplorer expects degrees decimal minutes
which necessitated an additional conversion when stitching TIFs together.

I was then able to load the TIF into OziExplorer Click to calibrate.
File > Load & Calibrate Map Image

At that point I needed to upload the GPX tracks but I didn't know about
your suggestion that OziExplorer would upload GPX tracks directly.

So I had already run GpsBabel to convert the GPX track into PLT tracks.

>> I only used ozi explorer on Android & Windows for a few minutes so I
>> may have some of that wrong as ozi does things different than most
>> apps do.
>>
>> But did I get anything wrong above in what I surmised from the ozi
>> site?
>
> You definitely got everything. I do not remember how many calibration
> points the converter puts in the *.map file but you can always add
> calibration points through the program (maybe only registered?). I always
> use at least 4 points with one at each map corner. If you get into this you
> probably will move on to stitching usge maps together. That is a whole new
> process.

The stitching wasn't that much of a problem nor was the calibration (other
than having to convert from USGS DMS to OziExplorer DdM for no good reason)
but it is odd so many special formats are needed just to use OziExplorer.

Do you know why OziExplorer natively uses PLT instead of GPX tracks?
Or why OziExplorer natively uses geocalibrated TIFF/BMP instead of geoPDFs?

Also I found out later that I could use Google topographical maps instead
of USGS topographical maps, but Google's topo maps are terribly inaccurate.
https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/using-google-maps-with-oziexplorer.269922/
So it's just nice to know but Google maps can't compete with the USGS maps.

> I do have the android version on my phone.

I did install the Android OziExplorer APK whose interface showed a colorful
world map (of Africa & Europe) but it wouldn't even scroll to the Americas.

So I killed it and decided to concentrate first on the PC software tools.

Thanks for your advice as I've only used OziExplorer for a total of about
an hour or two but I can see, after all the tedious conversions, it can be
useful software for displaying tracks on an underlying USGS geoTIFF
composite which is available for from the USGS for anywhere in the USA.

I never did get the GPX to show unless I converted GPX to the PLT format.

Wolf Greenblatt wrote:

> Do you know why OziExplorer natively uses PLT instead of GPX tracks?

I do not really know the answer. Maybe it uses PLT because it adds info to
the PLT that is not contained in the GPX.

> Or why OziExplorer natively uses geocalibrated TIFF/BMP instead of
> geoPDFs?

I do not know except people use maps that are not geoPDFs. So maybe the
extra programming was not worth it to them.

> I did install the Android OziExplorer APK whose interface showed a
> colorful world map (of Africa & Europe) but it wouldn't even scroll
> to the Americas.
>
> So I killed it and decided to concentrate first on the PC software
> tools.

You use the tiff and map files you created with OziExplorer with the Android
version. I store them on the sd in my phone.

Under the 3D/Elevation menu bar selection are a couple of options to
download the STRM elevation data. This is what I use. I have not tried for
years whether these options still work. They also may only be available in
the registered version.

You definitely are on the right course and just need to keep experimenting.

There is also Oziexplorer@groups.io that people answer questions on. You do
have to join.

<Bill>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 09:08:09 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

>> Or why OziExplorer natively uses geocalibrated TIFF/BMP instead of
>> geoPDFs?
>
> I do not know except people use maps that are not geoPDFs. So maybe the
> extra programming was not worth it to them.

Thanks. What I want is completely offline GPX track viewing & editing.

You would think every topo map program would handle geocalibrated PDFs
since every single inch of the USA has a free detailed geoPDF, most dating
back to more than a hundred years & constantly forever updated ever since.
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-do-i-find-and-download-us-topo-and-historical-topographic-htmc-maps

Every single state & federal park (hundreds of them) in the USA even has
their own free geocalibrated PDF, so at least in the USA geoPDF is king.
https://www.outerspatial.com/

That free app containing geocalibrated US Parks maps is on both platforms.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.trailheadlabs.outerspatial
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/outerspatial/id1254161962

>> I did install the Android OziExplorer APK whose interface showed a
>> colorful world map (of Africa & Europe) but it wouldn't even scroll
>> to the Americas.
>>
>> So I killed it and decided to concentrate first on the PC software
>> tools.
>
> You use the tiff and map files you created with OziExplorer with the Android
> version. I store them on the sd in my phone.

Oh. So that's what it's supposed to use! I did not know that. Thanks.
Sorry for being dense in not realizing that trick. Much appreciated.

The beauty of the USA is every inch has a free topographic map for it.
https://www.usgs.gov/node/25175

> Under the 3D/Elevation menu bar selection are a couple of options to
> download the STRM elevation data. This is what I use. I have not tried for
> years whether these options still work. They also may only be available in
> the registered version.

Thanks for that elevation data, where I was going to get it from here.
https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/
But I haven't tried any of those custom map images with DEM data yet.

> You definitely are on the right course and just need to keep experimenting.
>
> There is also Oziexplorer@groups.io that people answer questions on. You do
> have to join.

Thanks. I also downloaded and installed a few other programs to test out.

Basecamp
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/

Mobac
https://mobac.sourceforge.io/

OpenOrienteering
https://github.com/OpenOrienteering/mapper/

QField
https://github.com/opengisch/QField

Quantum QGis
https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html

When I'm done testing these out, I hope to be able to do the following:
1. Load and view geo calibrated topo maps fully offline on the PC
2. Draw planned routes using an offline PC or Android tool
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lcxventures.gpxlab.app
3. Save performed GPX tracks using open source cellphone apps such as
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger
4. Edit saved or drawn routes using an offline PC tool with topo maps
5. In the bush, route using those drawn tracks using a verbal routing tool

Do you know of Android software that verbally keeps you on a track?

Googling, I found a few that I need to install to test out in the bush.
https://bikegpx.com/
https://www.rungoapp.com/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pcability.biketracker

Where my plan is to go on a hike using only a compass, map and dead
reckoning (without following any trails) and then to bring back the GPX
track to then display & edit on an offline map to plan the next trip.

Given this isn't generally what most people do, any helpful advice is
always greatly appreciated, as I'm aware most people stay on the trail
(where you don't need any software as you can't possibly ever get lost).

On Mon, 25th Mar 2024 15:06:03 -0400, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:

Exactly as I expected: Long winding discussion with no prospect of getting
to the target, eventually. Despite my initial statement I'll give you some
pointers before the matter drifts even further away...

> You would think every topo map program would handle geocalibrated PDFs
> since every single inch of the USA has a free detailed geoPDF, most dating
> back to more than a hundred years & constantly forever updated ever since.
> https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-do-i-find-and-download-us-topo-and-historical-topographic-htmc-maps

GeoPdf is a rather new format and requires very sophisticated renderers.
Although GeoPdf can hold both, vector and raster data, most USGS GeoPdf
combine some vector information right into the included raster. This
leads to 2 problems: Only some additional themes (like contour lines)
benefit from the free scalability of vector data. Most do not. Still,
the rendering of GeoPdf is much more compute-intense than raster image
formats, like GeoTiff, and will therefore be rather slow on display.
(Especially so, when more than one GeoPdf is displayed.)

Much more of a problem, though, is the rendering of map captions, legend,
and so on right into the raster layer. As long as you only view one tile
(aka one GeoPdf file) at any given time, this is just a nuisance. But if
you want to load several tiles alongside each other, you admittedly can
make the white background of the map tile border transparent. But the
legend entries and the like will still overlap parts of the adjacent map
tiles. - Instead of the map you'll see just legend text...

GeoPdf, fortunately, is not the only map format delivered by the USGS.
IMHO, a good source for USGS map downloads is:

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer

Beside GeoPdf you can get Jpeg, GeoTiff, and KMZ. The Jpeg downloads I
tried contain no geo-reference, which makes them rather useless. Apart
from this, they also show the legend information. GeoTiff would be a
great format, but carries the legend, as well. With scripting it should
be possible to strip the border while keeping a correct geo-reference.
But this is a /lot/ of hassle.

Fortunately, the KMZ format contains borderless pure map tiles. When
downloading KMZ, you get a *.zip archive, though. For newer US topo
maps, the *.zip seems to always contain 2 *.kmz files: One shows a
standard topographic map, while the other contains an aerial orthophoto.
These images are so called "ground overlays" and comprise (together
with sidecar doc.kml files) a special variety of *.kmz files.

Next question is, which GIS program supports *.kmz files. A good choice
seems to be GpxSee (www.gpxsee.org). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to
permit seamless viewing of several *.kmz files and also (currently?)
has problems displaying GPX tracks. It has a nice map caching mode for
several online map sources, tough. And there is a repository with
configuration files for additional sources.

If a small and easy solution cannot be found, QGIS usually is the way
to look. With KML Tools plugin the ground overlays can be extracted
and converted (with the coordinates from their sidecar *.kml files)
to GeoTiff files.

IMHO, there's a better approach, though. After downloading the *.zip
with the *.kmz files, extract the latter from the *.zip. All *.kmz
files are also *.zip files (just renamed). If you can open them in a
file manger of your choice, directly, then do so. Otherwise, rename
all *.kmz files to *.zip.

Each of these USGS *.kmz/*.zip files contains a subdirectory "assets",
which you can ignore. You need the *.jpg file and the doc.kml. Extract
these in a directory of your choice and rename the doc.kml to the name
of the *.jpg. (Do /not/ change the name of the *.jpg file!)

Create different target directories for the the topo images and the
aerial images. Both *.jpg files have the same name and cannot reside
in the same directory. (If you rename a *.jpg, you need to edit the
content of the sidecar *.kml, as well. - To adjust the reference inside
it to the new name.)

If you used the KML tools export approach, you load the new GeoTiff
files into your QGIS map, afterwards. If you went the extraction path,
you don't load the *.jpg files. Instead you load the sidecar *.kml
files. You'll be asked by QGIS, which content from the *.kml you wish
to load. Ignore the point and area theme and instead load the listed
image (has a raster symbol).

Bottom line: The description is much more complicated, than executing
it. But only, if each step is really understood...

Good luck!
Bernd

Bernd Rose wrote:
> On Mon, 25th Mar 2024 15:06:03 -0400, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
>
> Exactly as I expected: Long winding discussion with no prospect of
> getting to the target, eventually. Despite my initial statement I'll
> give you some pointers before the matter drifts even further away...
>
> Much more of a problem, though, is the rendering of map captions,
> legend, and so on right into the raster layer. As long as you only
> view one tile (aka one GeoPdf file) at any given time, this is just a
> nuisance. But if you want to load several tiles alongside each other,
> you admittedly can make the white background of the map tile border
> transparent. But the legend entries and the like will still overlap
> parts of the adjacent map tiles. - Instead of the map you'll see just
> legend text...

I cut this down to something that interested me. I stitch USGS maps
together after converting them to tiff. I have a program that lets me crop
the borders off of the tiff. Not the easiest to do in Alaska as we are so
far North our maps latitudes have pronounced curvature and our longitudes
have obvious convergence so the stitched maps are never perfect. What are
you using to make the borders transparent and could you outline the process?
--
<Bill>

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:54:10 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> I stitch USGS maps together after converting them to tiff. I have a
> program that lets me crop the borders off of the tiff.

Why would you do this, when you can download them borderless in the first
place?? The tiles inside the KMZ format are already borderless.

> What are you using to make the borders transparent and could you outline
> the process?

Not the whole border, just the white background. There are several ways,
from selecting a color to be NoData inside the GIS program, to using
gdal or even an image manipulation tool like image magick or graphics
magick to define a transparency mask. Probably the easiest way to make
the white background transparent is setting "srcnodata" when creating
a large virtual raster file from all the single tiles with gdalbuildvrt:

https://gdal.org/programs/gdalbuildvrt.html

OTOH, you could forgo transparency completely, though, by using gdalbuildvrt
with suitable "te" parameters. You get the boundary parameters from the
doc.kml file inside each KMZ variant. But again, why would you go this way,
when you could have used KMZ in the first place?

And here I am explaining ways to do what I recommended /not/ to do. Always
the same in these discussions about USGS topo maps. :-(

Bernd

Following myself up:

> And here I am explaining ways to do what I recommended /not/ to do. Always
> the same in these discussions about USGS topo maps. :-(

Maybe the following basis for a conversion script can be of use for some.
Starting from USGS *.kmz files most common geo-referenced image formats
can be created:

::--------------------[conversion.cmd]--------------------
for %%f in (*.kmz) do (
gdal_translate -co worldfile=yes /vsizip/%%f/doc.kml %%~dpnf.png
gdal_translate -b 1 -b 2 -b 3 /vsizip/%%f/doc.kml %%~dpnf.vrt
sed -i "s/doc.kml/%%~nf_kmz.jpg/g" %%~dpnf.vrt
gdal_translate -co compress=jpeg %%~dpnf.vrt %%~dpnf.tif
)
::--------------------[conversion.cmd]--------------------

The Gdal package and Sed need to be available in path for this to work.

The conversion /can/ be done with one step directly from *.kmz to
common formats. This is shown for the *.png example.

For GeoTiff files the demonstrated 3-step-approach is better, though,
because it prevents lossy recompression of the *.kmz-internal *.jpg.
For this conversion to work, the *.vrt must be created without Alpha
channel. Hence, the explicit mentioning of the 3 target bands.

The "outer" name of the *.kmz file needs to be adjusted to the name of
the "inner" *.jpeg. Fixed appendices like the standard "_kmz" are no
problem as shown above. For Ortho-KMZ files it is easier to adjust the
outer name, though. Although stripping of "orth" inside the script is
possible; renaming is much easier.

Vsizip is the virtual *.zip file driver of Gdal. (A *.kmz file is just
a renamed *.zip.)

HTH.
Bernd

Bernd Rose wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:54:10 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>
>> I stitch USGS maps together after converting them to tiff. I have a
>> program that lets me crop the borders off of the tiff.
>
> Why would you do this, when you can download them borderless in the
> first place?? The tiles inside the KMZ format are already borderless.
>
>> What are you using to make the borders transparent and could you
>> outline the process?
>
> Not the whole border, just the white background. There are several
> ways, from selecting a color to be NoData inside the GIS program, to
> using
> gdal or even an image manipulation tool like image magick or graphics
> magick to define a transparency mask. Probably the easiest way to make
> the white background transparent is setting "srcnodata" when creating
> a large virtual raster file from all the single tiles with
> gdalbuildvrt:
>
> https://gdal.org/programs/gdalbuildvrt.html
>
> OTOH, you could forgo transparency completely, though, by using
> gdalbuildvrt with suitable "te" parameters. You get the boundary
> parameters from the doc.kml file inside each KMZ variant. But again,
> why would you go this way, when you could have used KMZ in the first
> place?
>
> And here I am explaining ways to do what I recommended /not/ to do.
> Always the same in these discussions about USGS topo maps. :-(
>
> Bernd

I did not realize there were borderless files in the KMZ. I will start by
looking at these. I have saved your followup message.

<Bill>

Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> Bernd Rose wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:54:10 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>>
>>> I stitch USGS maps together after converting them to tiff. I have a
>>> program that lets me crop the borders off of the tiff.
>>
>> Why would you do this, when you can download them borderless in the
>> first place?? The tiles inside the KMZ format are already borderless.
>>
>> Bernd
>
> I did not realize there were borderless files in the KMZ. I will
> start by looking at these. I have saved your followup message.
>
> <Bill>

So I went to USGS viewer to download a topo as a quadrangle as a KMZ. But
only was given the options of geopdf or tif. I am waiting for them send me
the tif and I hope it is actually the KMZ file. Have I missed something?

<Bill>

On Wed, 27th Mar 2024 12:09:13 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> So I went to USGS viewer to download a topo as a quadrangle as a KMZ. But
> only was given the options of geopdf or tif. I am waiting for them send me
> the tif and I hope it is actually the KMZ file. Have I missed something?

Waiting to send?? Did you go to the website I suggested:

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer

You should see an overview of the map of North America with US territory
highlighted in light red. On the left side is a bar containing basic
navigation controls; and on the right side is a (retractable) settings
and selection panel. If in retracted state you should see a small black
area with white arrowhead in the upper right corner of the map window.
Click there to get the panel back to visible state.

Zoom to your area of interest and click in the center of this area. You
now should see a selection frame on the map and a list of all available
themes in the panel on the right side. You can use the filter options
of the panel (map creation time, reference scale and theme) to reduce
the list to the most relevant maps. For instance: Show only maps from
1990 or newer, reference scale 24k, and UST (= US Topo Collection).

If only one map fits your conditions, its entry will be expanded. Else,
just the first entry in the list will be expanded. If you want another
map from the list, select it. This focus map entry should now be shown
in expanded state, revealing the download options and other functions.
Click the preferred download option (KMZ in this case) and a SaveAs
dialog should show up, enabling you to save the zipped KMZ file(s) for
your selection.

If you don't see these options, you may need to change your browser or
check its settings. (JavaScript, Cookies, and the like may be relevant.)

Bernd

Bernd Rose wrote:
> On Wed, 27th Mar 2024 12:09:13 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>
>> So I went to USGS viewer to download a topo as a quadrangle as a
>> KMZ. But only was given the options of geopdf or tif. I am waiting
>> for them send me the tif and I hope it is actually the KMZ file.
>> Have I missed something?
>
> Waiting to send?? Did you go to the website I suggested:
>
> https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer
>
> You should see an overview of the map of North America with US
> territory highlighted in light red. On the left side is a bar
> containing basic navigation controls; and on the right side is a
> (retractable) settings and selection panel. If in retracted state you
> should see a small black area with white arrowhead in the upper right
> corner of the map window. Click there to get the panel back to
> visible state.
>
> Zoom to your area of interest and click in the center of this area.
> You now should see a selection frame on the map and a list of all
> available themes in the panel on the right side. You can use the
> filter options of the panel (map creation time, reference scale and
> theme) to reduce the list to the most relevant maps. For instance:
> Show only maps from 1990 or newer, reference scale 24k, and UST (= US
> Topo Collection).
>
> If only one map fits your conditions, its entry will be expanded.
> Else, just the first entry in the list will be expanded. If you want
> another map from the list, select it. This focus map entry should now
> be shown in expanded state, revealing the download options and other
> functions. Click the preferred download option (KMZ in this case) and
> a SaveAs dialog should show up, enabling you to save the zipped KMZ
> file(s) for your selection.
>
> If you don't see these options, you may need to change your browser or
> check its settings. (JavaScript, Cookies, and the like may be
> relevant.)
>
> Bernd

I missed that it was not USGS site. It works. I have to look at it a
little more. I see value to it.

<Bill>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 13:51:52 -0800, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

>> Did you go to the website I suggested:
>>
>> https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer
[...]
> I missed that it was not USGS site.

It is just one out of many USGS sites. Or what do you think "usgs.gov"
stands for?? Btw., "ngmdb" is short for "National Geologic Map Database".

> It works.

Good.

Bernd