I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
time...

This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.

One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:, 512GB, that
came with the machine. This is the default boot drive. I use it
everyday.

The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first set up.
This drive also has additional programs and data files that I
occassionally add.

Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which drive I'm
using.

After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.

If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show up
anymore.

All that shows up is:

UEFI Options
Windows Boot Manager
Onboard NIC IPV4
Onboard NIC IPV6
HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0

Other Options
BIOS Setup
Diagnostics
BIOS Flash Update
Support Assist OS Recovery

If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB

If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option Priorities, it
shows:
Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE

How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main boot
drive?

(When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot into, I
can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)

TIA

boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:

> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
> time...
>
> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>
> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:, 512GB,
> that came with the machine. This is the default boot drive. I use it
> everyday.
>
> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
> 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first set
> up. This drive also has additional programs and data files that I
> occassionally add.
>
> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which drive
> I'm using.
>
> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>
> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show up
> anymore.
>
> All that shows up is:
>
> UEFI Options
> Windows Boot Manager
> Onboard NIC IPV4
> Onboard NIC IPV6
> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>
> Other Options
> BIOS Setup
> Diagnostics
> BIOS Flash Update
> Support Assist OS Recovery
>
> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>
> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option Priorities,
> it shows:
> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>
> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main
> boot drive?
>
> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>
> TIA

By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C: and
the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in the BIOS
so that I can set it as the boot drive.

Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:

> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
>> time...
>>
>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>
>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:, 512GB,
>> that came with the machine. This is the default boot drive. I use
>> it everyday.
>>
>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
>> 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first
>> set up. This drive also has additional programs and data files that
>> I occassionally add.
>>
>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which drive
>> I'm using.
>>
>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>
>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show up
>> anymore.
>>
>> All that shows up is:
>>
>> UEFI Options
>> Windows Boot Manager
>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>
>> Other Options
>> BIOS Setup
>> Diagnostics
>> BIOS Flash Update
>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>
>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>
>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>> Priorities, it shows:
>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>
>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main
>> boot drive?
>>
>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>
>> TIA
>
> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C: and
> the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in the
> BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>

See here:

https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt

The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while the
HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.

On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>
>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
>>> time...
>>>
>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>
>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:, 512GB,
>>> that came with the machine. This is the default boot drive. I use
>>> it everyday.
>>>
>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
>>> 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first
>>> set up. This drive also has additional programs and data files that
>>> I occassionally add.
>>>
>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which drive
>>> I'm using.
>>>
>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>
>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show up
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> All that shows up is:
>>>
>>> UEFI Options
>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>
>>> Other Options
>>> BIOS Setup
>>> Diagnostics
>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>
>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>
>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>
>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main
>>> boot drive?
>>>
>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C: and
>> the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in the
>> BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>
>
> See here:
>
> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>
> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while the
> HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.

What you've done, is a bit naughty.

I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.

That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
find *two* Windows Boot Managers.

Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.

Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot menu
of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
"Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.

In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do

Admin terminal
--------------

bcdedit # show current config
bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza

and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the drive
the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't "select"
a missing OS, no harm is done.

*******

It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows 11
machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets confused,
it's not total confusion :-)

If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some point.
And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the first
file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>
>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
>>>> time...
>>>>
>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>
>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot drive.
>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>
>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
>>>> 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first
>>>> set up. This drive also has additional programs and data files
>>>> that I occassionally add.
>>>>
>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>
>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>
>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>> up anymore.
>>>>
>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>
>>>> UEFI Options
>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>
>>>> Other Options
>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>> Diagnostics
>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>
>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>
>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>
>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main
>>>> boot drive?
>>>>
>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>
>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in
>>> the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>
>>
>> See here:
>>
>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>
>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while the
>> HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>
> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>
> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>
> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>
> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>
> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
> "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>
> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>
> Admin terminal
> --------------
>
> bcdedit # show current config
> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>
> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.

I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it that
I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I unplug it, I
can't boot.

I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM

>
> *******
>
> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows 11
> machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets confused,
> it's not total confusion :-)
>
> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some point.
> And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the first
> file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>
> Paul
>

On 9/2/2023 4:47 PM, Boris wrote:

>
> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it that
> I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I unplug it, I
> can't boot.
>
> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM

Since you cloned, both of them will refer to the C: partition.

What I'm saying is, without modifying the BIOS boot selection,
you could try adding D: to "whatever is booting right now" and
its menu.

Drive#1 C&D offered in boot <=== after you add D: to the menu

Drive#2 Only C offered in boot

Don't forget, that if Drive#1 boots, it's OS drive becomes C:

When Drive#2 boots, the OS drive on it is likely to be C:
(without a lot of changes). If you cloned with Macrium, then the
identifier of the second drive OS partition, is changed automatically
for you. Which is why the situation isn't a total disaster.
By having the two partitions be slightly different, it helps a bit.
And they don't have the same GUID value.

Each OS keeps a table of drive letters, and those tables
have nothing to do with one another. Once it is established
which C: is to be used, the registry file within that C:
can be consulted for drive letter assignments that were
made manually by the user.

If you had cloned by using dd.exe ("Disk Dump"), then the situation
would be much worse, and selecting the wrong partition would be
much closer to a random number generator :-)

In the case I ran into, the contents of the disks were not identical,
just the model number of the two hard drives were identical. The
BIOS does not seem to use the serial number to any good purpose
(as a tie breaker or as tracking information).

As long as you consult Disk Management, as long as you assign text labels
to the partitions to help you verify you're "on the right partition",
then managing two disks in the way that you are, won't be so bad.
In Disk Management, you should be able to quickly verify, whether
you are reaching the second disk correctly or not.

If you ever get it working, take a screen shot of the Disk Management
in each case, to convince yourself how drive lettering works. This is
all part of "multiboot training" and learning the ropes.

*******

This isn't the right picture to share, but this is an example
of what one disk looks like. ( If I added a second disk to the
machine, they would not know about one another, with regard to BCD menu. )

This is my GPT-partitioned boot drive on this machine. The letter H:
came about, as a result of me manually assigning it, at some point.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/x14RdRn0/dual-boot-daily-driver.gif

Paul

Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:

> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>
>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>> this time...
>>>>>
>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>> drive.
>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>> when first set up. This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>
>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>
>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>
>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>
>>>>> Other Options
>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>
>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>
>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>
>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>
>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in
>>>> the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>
>>>
>>> See here:
>>>
>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>
>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>
>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>
>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>
>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>
>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>
>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
>> "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>
>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>
>> Admin terminal
>> --------------
>>
>> bcdedit # show current config
>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>
>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>
> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
> unplug it, I can't boot.
>
> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>
>>
>> *******
>>
>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>
>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
>
>

I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does this
happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
unplugged.

Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it was
D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)

A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:ud08bf$i30p$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/2/2023 4:47 PM, Boris wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>
>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>
> Since you cloned, both of them will refer to the C: partition.

Ah, I see.

>
> What I'm saying is, without modifying the BIOS boot selection,
> you could try adding D: to "whatever is booting right now" and
> its menu.

Just for 'fun', I disabled Secure Boot to see if Drive#1 would appear.
Nope. Re-enabled Secure Boot.

>
> Drive#1 C&D offered in boot <=== after you add D: to the men
>
> Drive#2 Only C offered in boot

Current situation.

>
> Don't forget, that if Drive#1 boots, it's OS drive becomes C:

Ok.

>
> When Drive#2 boots, the OS drive on it is likely to be C:
> (without a lot of changes).

Yes, that's what's been happening.

If you cloned with Macrium, then the
> identifier of the second drive OS partition, is changed automatically
> for you.

I did.

Which is why the situation isn't a total disaster.
> By having the two partitions be slightly different, it helps a bit.
> And they don't have the same GUID value.

Ok.

>
> Each OS keeps a table of drive letters, and those tables
> have nothing to do with one another. Once it is established
> which C: is to be used, the registry file within that C:
> can be consulted for drive letter assignments that were
> made manually by the user.
>
> If you had cloned by using dd.exe ("Disk Dump"), then the situation
> would be much worse, and selecting the wrong partition would be
> much closer to a random number generator :-)
>
> In the case I ran into, the contents of the disks were not identical,
> just the model number of the two hard drives were identical. The
> BIOS does not seem to use the serial number to any good purpose
> (as a tie breaker or as tracking information).
>
> As long as you consult Disk Management, as long as you assign text
> labels to the partitions to help you verify you're "on the right
> partition", then managing two disks in the way that you are, won't be
> so bad. In Disk Management, you should be able to quickly verify,
> whether you are reaching the second disk correctly or not.
>
> If you ever get it working, take a screen shot of the Disk Management
> in each case, to convince yourself how drive lettering works. This is
> all part of "multiboot training" and learning the ropes.

I took screen shots when first configuring the OS, and again after
cloning to the auxiliary drive.

>
> *******
>
> This isn't the right picture to share, but this is an example
> of what one disk looks like. ( If I added a second disk to the
> machine, they would not know about one another, with regard to BCD
> menu. )
>
> This is my GPT-partitioned boot drive on this machine. The letter H:
> came about, as a result of me manually assigning it, at some point.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/x14RdRn0/dual-boot-daily-driver.gif
>
> Paul

On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>
>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>
>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>>> when first set up. This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>>>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in
>>>>> the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See here:
>>>>
>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>
>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>
>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>
>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>
>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>
>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>
>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
>>> "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>
>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>
>>> Admin terminal
>>> --------------
>>>
>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>>
>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>
>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>
>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>
>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>
>
> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
> but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does this
> happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
> unplugged.
>
> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it was
> D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>
> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.

It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened better
than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT diagram, was
the source of boot.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-MSDOS-vs-GPT.gif

I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS partition
on a second drive.

*******

As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.

For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.

Paul

Paul wrote:
> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>
>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>
>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>>>> when first set up. This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>>>>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in
>>>>>> the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> See here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>
>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>
>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>
>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>
>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>
>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
>>>> "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>
>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>
>>>> Admin terminal
>>>> --------------
>>>>
>>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>>>
>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>
>>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>
>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>
>>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>>>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>>>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>>>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>
>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>>
>>
>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
>> but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does this
>> happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
>> unplugged.
>>
>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it was
>> D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>
>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>
> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened better
> than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT diagram, was
> the source of boot.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-MSDOS-vs-GPT.gif
>
> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS partition
> on a second drive.
>
> *******
>
> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>
> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
> one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
> shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
> it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
Fyi....
Earlier Boris said
<qp>
I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
</qp>

You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C: partition.

To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot loader
info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
- the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged on o/s
i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak, it will
always be C:)

On 9/3/2023 2:15 AM, ...winston wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>
>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine.  This is the default boot
>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>   I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>>>>> when first set up.  This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO)  1000GB
>>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #1  Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #2  Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #3  Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot
>>>>>>>> into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear in
>>>>>>> the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both have
>>>>> "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>>
>>>>>     Admin terminal
>>>>>     --------------
>>>>>
>>>>>     bcdedit               # show current config
>>>>>     bcdboot D:\windows    # add an OS
>>>>>     bcdedit               # show new config and the added stanza
>>>>>
>>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>>
>>>> I'm unclear.  If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>>>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD?  If I
>>>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>>
>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:.  They were identical:
>>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *******
>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>>>>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>>>>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>>>>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
>>> but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc.  How does this
>>> happen?  It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
>>> unplugged.
>>>
>>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:.  Before unplugging, it was
>>> D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>>
>>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>>
>> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened better
>> than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT diagram, was
>> the source of boot.
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-MSDOS-vs-GPT.gif
>>
>> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS partition
>> on a second drive.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
>> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
>> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>>
>> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
>> one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
>> shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
>> it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>>
>>    Paul
>>
>>
>>
> Fyi....
> Earlier Boris said
> <qp>
> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:.  They were identical:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
> </qp>
>
> You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C: partition.
>
> To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot loader info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
>  - the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged on o/s
>  i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak, it will always be C:)
>
> Might have been a good idea to use the bcedit command interface to rename the description for the logged on o/s
>  - i.e. the identifier {current}
> So that any later changes when both drives are bootable provide the ability to tell the difference.
>
> Also, if not mentioned...The Bootloader info shown in bcedit comes frmo the UEFI boot variable which is stored in the UEFI/BIOS NVRAM and not on the disk.
>

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ud18au$psu7$1@dont-email.me:

> Paul wrote:
>> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>
>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>>>>> when first set up. This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can
>>>>>>>> boot into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the
>>>>>>>> SDD.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear
>>>>>>> in the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both
>>>>> have "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>>
>>>>> Admin terminal
>>>>> --------------
>>>>>
>>>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>>>>
>>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>>
>>>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>>>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>>>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>>
>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>>>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *******
>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>>>>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>>>>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>>>>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
>>> but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does this
>>> happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
>>> unplugged.
>>>
>>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it was
>>> D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>>
>>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>>
>> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened better
>> than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT diagram, was
>> the source of boot.
>>
>> [Picture]
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-MSDOS-
v >> s-GPT.gif
>>
>> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS
>> partition on a second drive.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
>> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
>> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>>
>> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
>> one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
>> shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
>> it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
> Fyi....
> Earlier Boris said
> <qp>
> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
> </qp>
>
> You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C:
> partition.
>
> To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot loader
> info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
> - the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged on
> o/s i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak, it will
> always be C:)
>
> Might have been a good idea to use the bcedit command interface to
> rename the description for the logged on o/s
> - i.e. the identifier {current}
> So that any later changes when both drives are bootable provide the
> ability to tell the difference.
>
> Also, if not mentioned...The Bootloader info shown in bcedit comes frmo
> the UEFI boot variable which is stored in the UEFI/BIOS NVRAM and not on
> the disk.
>

On 02/09/2023 16:10, boris@invalid.net wrote:
> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down this
> time...
>
> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>
> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:, 512GB, that
> came with the machine. This is the default boot drive. I use it
> everyday.
>
> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC WD10EZEX-
> 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD when first set up.
> This drive also has additional programs and data files that I
> occassionally add.
>
> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which drive I'm
> using.
>
> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>
> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show up
> anymore.
>
> All that shows up is:
>
> UEFI Options
> Windows Boot Manager
> Onboard NIC IPV4
> Onboard NIC IPV6
> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>
> Other Options
> BIOS Setup
> Diagnostics
> BIOS Flash Update
> Support Assist OS Recovery
>
> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>
> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option Priorities, it
> shows:
> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>
> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the main boot
> drive?
>
> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can boot into, I
> can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the SDD.)
>
> TIA
>

I've had this happen to me & IIRC I had to unplug the 2nd drive & use
the Windows DVD to repair the boot options.

--
Regards
wasbit

On 9/3/2023 11:30 PM, boris@invalid.net wrote:
> "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:ud18au$psu7$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> Paul wrote:
>>> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>
>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed SDD
>>>>>>>>> when first set up. This drive also has additional programs and
>>>>>>>>> data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't show
>>>>>>>>> up anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can
>>>>>>>>> boot into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on the
>>>>>>>>> SDD.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as C:
>>>>>>>> and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to appear
>>>>>>>> in the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>>>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both
>>>>>> have "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>>>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>>>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Admin terminal
>>>>>> --------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>>>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>>>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>>>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>>>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>>>>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>>>>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>>>>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *******
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>>>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the existence
>>>>>> of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances. My Windows
>>>>>> 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine gets
>>>>>> confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>>>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted up,
>>>> but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does this
>>>> happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary HDD was
>>>> unplugged.
>>>>
>>>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it was
>>>> D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>>>
>>>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>>>
>>> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened better
>>> than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT diagram, was
>>> the source of boot.
>>>
>>> [Picture]
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-MSDOS-
> v
>>> s-GPT.gif
>>>
>>> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS
>>> partition on a second drive.
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
>>> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
>>> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>>>
>>> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
>>> one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
>>> shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
>>> it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Fyi....
>> Earlier Boris said
>> <qp>
>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>> </qp>
>>
>> You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C:
>> partition.
>>
>> To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot loader
>> info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
>> - the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged on
>> o/s i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak, it will
>> always be C:)
>>
>> Might have been a good idea to use the bcedit command interface to
>> rename the description for the logged on o/s
>> - i.e. the identifier {current}
>> So that any later changes when both drives are bootable provide the
>> ability to tell the difference.
>>
>> Also, if not mentioned...The Bootloader info shown in bcedit comes frmo
>> the UEFI boot variable which is stored in the UEFI/BIOS NVRAM and not on
>> the disk.
>>
>
> Well,I was able to 'successfully' bcdboot to the D: drive, But, when I
> reloaded the OS, it wouldnt' come up. I got the blue screen Recovery
> Options, none of which worked. One option was to change the UEFI
> settings, another was to change the BIOS options, but none worked. After
> every reboot, I kept coming back to the blue screen Recovery Options. I
> couldn't get a OS to load.
>
> When I was allowed to get into the UEFI settings, the only option in the
> Boot Menu settins was Windows Boot Manager, not any drives.
>
> If I don't select a Recovery Option, the macnine powers off. Strange to
> me.
>
> Bottom line, the machine now circles to the blue screen Recovery Options,
> none of which are helpful. I've tried them all. Next may be Reset, and
> then Factory Reset.
>
> I do have a Macrium image taken 9/2/2023, on a WD Passport portable drive,
> in anticipation of this nightmare, but I can't acces it on the Windows 11
> machine, because the Windows 11 machine won't load Windows. (I'm writing
> this note on my Windows 7 machine) The 7 machine tells me I don't have
> permission to access the Macrium image of the Windows 11 machine. Crap.
>
> I may try two of my Windows 10 machines to access the Macrium files on the
> WD My Passport.
>
> I wonder if I do a Factory Reset (absolutely last resort) on the crapped
> out Windows 11 box, if I'll be able to access the files on the Passport
> drive. Doubt it. I will
>
> I have some very special data on the Passport drive (and the Windows 11
> SDD), that I don't want to loose. I can gather it from friends, but...
>
> Anyway, I'm not asking for suggestions (unless you have any). I just want
> to reply back as to how things are going to those who have thaken the
> time/effort to reply. I so appreciate the help/replies.
>
> Again, Thanks.
>

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:ud4bfl$1di9g$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/3/2023 11:30 PM, boris@invalid.net wrote:
>> "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:ud18au$psu7$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me down
>>>>>>>>>> this time...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe, C:,
>>>>>>>>>> 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default boot
>>>>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM installed
>>>>>>>>>> SDD when first set up. This drive also has additional programs
>>>>>>>>>> and data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know which
>>>>>>>>>> drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner, D:.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> show up anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as the
>>>>>>>>>> main boot drive?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I can
>>>>>>>>>> boot into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all files on
>>>>>>>>>> the SDD.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD as
>>>>>>>>> C: and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD to
>>>>>>>>> appear in the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS, while
>>>>>>>> the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file boot
>>>>>>> menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact that both
>>>>>>> have "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to add
>>>>>>> a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool the OS
>>>>>>> provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Admin terminal
>>>>>>> --------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>>>>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>>>>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added stanza
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if the
>>>>>>> drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you don't
>>>>>>> "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is it
>>>>>> that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD? If I
>>>>>> unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>>>>>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *******
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's doing
>>>>>>> Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the
>>>>>>> existence of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those circumstances.
>>>>>>> My Windows 11 machine has never used the TPM, so while the machine
>>>>>>> gets confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to the
>>>>>>> first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition] .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine booted
>>>>> up, but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc. How does
>>>>> this happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since the auxiliary
>>>>> HDD was unplugged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it
>>>>> was D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>>>>
>>>>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>>>>
>>>> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened
>>>> better than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT
>>>> diagram, was the source of boot.
>>>>
>>>> [Picture]
>>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-
MSDOS
>>>> -
>> v
>>>> s-GPT.gif
>>>>
>>>> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS
>>>> partition on a second drive.
>>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
>>>> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
>>>> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some trickery,
>>>> one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second device,
>>>> shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be evidence
>>>> it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Fyi....
>>> Earlier Boris said
>>> <qp>
>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were identical:
>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>> </qp>
>>>
>>> You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C:
>>> partition.
>>>
>>> To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot
>>> loader info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
>>> - the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged on
>>> o/s i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak, it
>>> will
>>> always be C:)
>>>
>>> Might have been a good idea to use the bcedit command interface to
>>> rename the description for the logged on o/s
>>> - i.e. the identifier {current}
>>> So that any later changes when both drives are bootable provide the
>>> ability to tell the difference.
>>>
>>> Also, if not mentioned...The Bootloader info shown in bcedit comes
>>> frmo the UEFI boot variable which is stored in the UEFI/BIOS NVRAM and
>>> not on the disk.
>>>
>>
>> Well,I was able to 'successfully' bcdboot to the D: drive, But, when I
>> reloaded the OS, it wouldnt' come up. I got the blue screen Recovery
>> Options, none of which worked. One option was to change the UEFI
>> settings, another was to change the BIOS options, but none worked.
>> After every reboot, I kept coming back to the blue screen Recovery
>> Options. I couldn't get a OS to load.
>>
>> When I was allowed to get into the UEFI settings, the only option in
>> the Boot Menu settins was Windows Boot Manager, not any drives.
>>
>> If I don't select a Recovery Option, the macnine powers off. Strange
>> to me.
>>
>> Bottom line, the machine now circles to the blue screen Recovery
>> Options, none of which are helpful. I've tried them all. Next may be
>> Reset, and then Factory Reset.
>>
>> I do have a Macrium image taken 9/2/2023, on a WD Passport portable
>> drive, in anticipation of this nightmare, but I can't acces it on the
>> Windows 11 machine, because the Windows 11 machine won't load Windows.
>> (I'm writing this note on my Windows 7 machine) The 7 machine tells me
>> I don't have permission to access the Macrium image of the Windows 11
>> machine. Crap.
>>
>> I may try two of my Windows 10 machines to access the Macrium files on
>> the WD My Passport.
>>
>> I wonder if I do a Factory Reset (absolutely last resort) on the
>> crapped out Windows 11 box, if I'll be able to access the files on the
>> Passport drive. Doubt it. I will
>>
>> I have some very special data on the Passport drive (and the Windows 11
>> SDD), that I don't want to loose. I can gather it from friends, but...
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not asking for suggestions (unless you have any). I just
>> want to reply back as to how things are going to those who have thaken
>> the time/effort to reply. I so appreciate the help/replies.
>>
>> Again, Thanks.
>>
>
> Easy peasy.
>
> You should have made a Macrium rescue CD.
>
> Macrium keeps pestering you about that, after you install it.
>
> It should be able to make USB flash or an ISO for CD burning.
> I do not see the USB option in the screen right now.
>
> The version must be sufficient to read the media you made.
> Like use a Version 7 CD to read V7,V6,V5 media kind of thing.
>
> On your machine that works, open Macrium and check out the
> making of media.
>
> Other Tasks : Create Rescue Media
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://imgur.com/a/tuGvviC
>
> On the machine where you have:
>
> hard drive needing restore
> external USB with .mrimg on it
> Macrium Rescue CD or Macrium USB Stick
>
> you boot from the Rescue CD or equivalent, and do a "Restore"
> from there, and "browse' for the .mrimg you want to restore to the
> hard drive needing restore.
>
> Paul
>
>
>

boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ud5m9i$1lcra$1@dont-email.me:

> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
> news:ud4bfl$1di9g$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 9/3/2023 11:30 PM, boris@invalid.net wrote:
>>> "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:ud18au$psu7$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/2023 5:22 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:XnsB0738C563970Anospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:ud007u$gu59$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/2/2023 2:07 PM, Boris wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB0736E0959D61nospaminvalidcom@135.181.20.170:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> boris@invalid.net wrote in news:ucvj9a$f2pm$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I normally take things in stride, but Windows has worn me
>>>>>>>>>>> down this time...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This Windows 11 machine has two storage devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One is the OEM installed SDD, M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe,
>>>>>>>>>>> C:, 512GB, that came with the machine. This is the default
>>>>>>>>>>> boot drive.
>>>>>>>>>>> I use it everyday.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The other is a bootable spinner hard drive, D:, a 1TB WDC
>>>>>>>>>>> WD10EZEX- 08WN4A0,drive onto which I cloned the OEM
>>>>>>>>>>> installed SDD when first set up. This drive also has
>>>>>>>>>>> additional programs and data files that I occassionally add.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Each drive has a different desktop background, so I know
>>>>>>>>>>> which drive I'm using.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After a fucking update, it is now booting into the spinner,
>>>>>>>>>>> D:.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I press F12 to try and boot into the SDD, the SDD doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> show up anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All that shows up is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> UEFI Options
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV4
>>>>>>>>>>> Onboard NIC IPV6
>>>>>>>>>>> HDD1 WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Other Options
>>>>>>>>>>> BIOS Setup
>>>>>>>>>>> Diagnostics
>>>>>>>>>>> BIOS Flash Update
>>>>>>>>>>> Support Assist OS Recovery
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I go into BIOS Setup, the Main screen shows
>>>>>>>>>>> First HDD WDC WD10EZEX-08WN4A0-(SO) 1000GB
>>>>>>>>>>> M.2 PCIe SSD-0 PC SN810NVMe WDC 512GB-(SO) 512GB
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I go into the BIOS Setup Boot screen, under Boot Option
>>>>>>>>>>> Priorities, it shows:
>>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #1 Windows Boot Manager
>>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #2 Onboard NIC IPV4 PXE
>>>>>>>>>>> Boot Option #3 Onboard NIC IPV6 PXE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How do I get the SDD to appear so I can re-establish it as
>>>>>>>>>>> the main boot drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (When booting into the spinner, which is the only drive I
>>>>>>>>>>> can boot into, I can use Windows Explorer and access all
>>>>>>>>>>> files on the SDD.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By the way, Disk Management does correctly identify the SDD
>>>>>>>>>> as C: and the HDD as D:, but I don't know how to get the SDD
>>>>>>>>>> to appear in the BIOS so that I can set it as the boot drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/FdQ7cYjt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The SDD shows a boot sector, but won't show up in the BIOS,
>>>>>>>>> while the HDD shows no boot sector, and does boot up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you've done, is a bit naughty.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ran into this problem, myself. I had two identical drives,
>>>>>>>> each one had a "Windows Boot Manager" on board, and when I had
>>>>>>>> selected the correct one (based on disk port number), the UEFI
>>>>>>>> in my machine, races off and uses the other [wrong!] drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was how I determined, that the firmware does not like to
>>>>>>>> find *two* Windows Boot Managers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Confusion is not guaranteed, but it is a potential outcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if you add the OS from the second drive, to the BCD file
>>>>>>>> boot menu of the first drive, that does not change the fact
>>>>>>>> that both have "Windows Boot Manager" in their EFS partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In one of the other threads today, someone has used EasyBCD to
>>>>>>>> add a second ("invisible") OS to the boot menu. But the tool
>>>>>>>> the OS provides is "bcdedit" (command line), and you could do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Admin terminal
>>>>>>>> --------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bcdedit # show current config
>>>>>>>> bcdboot D:\windows # add an OS
>>>>>>>> bcdedit # show new config and the added
>>>>>>>> stanza
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and add it to the erroneously booting menu right now. Even if
>>>>>>>> the drive the auxiliary OS is on, is unplugged, as long as you
>>>>>>>> don't "select" a missing OS, no harm is done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm unclear. If I unplug the auxiliary drive (the HDD), how is
>>>>>>> it that I can add the OS from the auxiliary drive to the SDD?
>>>>>>> If I unplug it, I can't boot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>>>>>>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *******
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's possible the machine is using the TPM right now, it's
>>>>>>>> doing Secure Boot, and just maybe, it will only acknowledge the
>>>>>>>> existence of one "Windows Boot Manager" under those
>>>>>>>> circumstances. My Windows 11 machine has never used the TPM, so
>>>>>>>> while the machine gets confused, it's not total confusion :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the TPM is involved, it has to start "measured boot" at some
>>>>>>>> point. And that likely starts when the BIOS UEFI, hands off to
>>>>>>>> the first file in the ESP [EFI System Partition, FAT partition]
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just unplugged the auxiliary drive (HDD), and the machine
>>>>>> booted up, but still showing the auxiliary desktop, files, etc.
>>>>>> How does this happen? It obviously booted from the SDD, since
>>>>>> the auxiliary HDD was unplugged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disk Management shows I am logged onto C:. Before unplugging, it
>>>>>> was D:. Either way, I get the same (incorrect desktop.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A "bcdedit" shows the same as before.
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that MSDOS partitioning, makes tracking what happened
>>>>> better than GPT partitioning. I can't tell which ESP in the GPT
>>>>> diagram, was the source of boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Picture]
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fTrjVNS9/compare-partition-information-
> MSDOS
>>>>> -
>>> v
>>>>> s-GPT.gif
>>>>>
>>>>> I can, in principle, use the ESP from one drive, to elect an OS
>>>>> partition on a second drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> *******
>>>>>
>>>>> As for "where is the info coming from", other than that, you'll
>>>>> have to look in Device Manager, and there are too many variants
>>>>> to really give a recipe for listing and understanding everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I have two SATA controller chips, and by some
>>>>> trickery, one shows its device as a regular hard drive. The second
>>>>> device, shows a new entry called "Portable Device", which might be
>>>>> evidence it has permanently turned on HotPlug detection.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Fyi....
>>>> Earlier Boris said
>>>> <qp>
>>>> I did a bcdedit on both auxiliary D: and SDD C:. They were
>>>> identical: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jYBxNgM
>>>> </qp>
>>>>
>>>> You mentioned that since it was cloned, it's referring to the C:
>>>> partition.
>>>>
>>>> To make that clearer - Bcedit displays the boot manager and boot
>>>> loader info for the o/s that is logged on to Windows.
>>>> - the pics were identical because the info is for the same logged
>>>> on o/s i.e. both pics are showing the same drive(and yes, afiak,
>>>> it will
>>>> always be C:)
>>>>
>>>> Might have been a good idea to use the bcedit command interface to
>>>> rename the description for the logged on o/s
>>>> - i.e. the identifier {current}
>>>> So that any later changes when both drives are bootable provide the
>>>> ability to tell the difference.
>>>>
>>>> Also, if not mentioned...The Bootloader info shown in bcedit comes
>>>> frmo the UEFI boot variable which is stored in the UEFI/BIOS NVRAM
>>>> and not on the disk.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well,I was able to 'successfully' bcdboot to the D: drive, But,
>>> when I reloaded the OS, it wouldnt' come up. I got the blue screen
>>> Recovery Options, none of which worked. One option was to change
>>> the UEFI settings, another was to change the BIOS options, but none
>>> worked. After every reboot, I kept coming back to the blue screen
>>> Recovery Options. I couldn't get a OS to load.
>>>
>>> When I was allowed to get into the UEFI settings, the only option in
>>> the Boot Menu settins was Windows Boot Manager, not any drives.
>>>
>>> If I don't select a Recovery Option, the macnine powers off.
>>> Strange to me.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, the machine now circles to the blue screen Recovery
>>> Options, none of which are helpful. I've tried them all. Next may
>>> be Reset, and then Factory Reset.
>>>
>>> I do have a Macrium image taken 9/2/2023, on a WD Passport portable
>>> drive, in anticipation of this nightmare, but I can't acces it on
>>> the Windows 11 machine, because the Windows 11 machine won't load
>>> Windows. (I'm writing this note on my Windows 7 machine) The 7
>>> machine tells me I don't have permission to access the Macrium image
>>> of the Windows 11 machine. Crap.
>>>
>>> I may try two of my Windows 10 machines to access the Macrium files
>>> on the WD My Passport.
>>>
>>> I wonder if I do a Factory Reset (absolutely last resort) on the
>>> crapped out Windows 11 box, if I'll be able to access the files on
>>> the Passport drive. Doubt it. I will
>>>
>>> I have some very special data on the Passport drive (and the Windows
>>> 11 SDD), that I don't want to loose. I can gather it from friends,
>>> but...
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm not asking for suggestions (unless you have any). I
>>> just want to reply back as to how things are going to those who have
>>> thaken the time/effort to reply. I so appreciate the help/replies.
>>>
>>> Again, Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Easy peasy.
>>
>> You should have made a Macrium rescue CD.
>>
>> Macrium keeps pestering you about that, after you install it.
>>
>> It should be able to make USB flash or an ISO for CD burning.
>> I do not see the USB option in the screen right now.
>>
>> The version must be sufficient to read the media you made.
>> Like use a Version 7 CD to read V7,V6,V5 media kind of thing.
>>
>> On your machine that works, open Macrium and check out the
>> making of media.
>>
>> Other Tasks : Create Rescue Media
>>
>> [Picture]
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/tuGvviC
>>
>> On the machine where you have:
>>
>> hard drive needing restore
>> external USB with .mrimg on it
>> Macrium Rescue CD or Macrium USB Stick
>>
>> you boot from the Rescue CD or equivalent, and do a "Restore"
>> from there, and "browse' for the .mrimg you want to restore to the
>> hard drive needing restore.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>
> I did make a Macrium Ver. 8 Rescue USB when I first installed Macrium
> v8 on the Windows 11 machine. The only way this machine recognized
> anything plugged in to it is if I disable Secure Boot. When I do
> this, it recognizes any USB, external CD/DVD device, or USB HDD (WD
> Passport).
>
> If I turn on the machine and go into the Boot Menu, all the above
> devices show up, including Windows Boot Manager and the WD
> W10EZEX...1000GB Drive, bu not the SDD.
>
> If I try to boot from the Macrium Rescue USB, the screen goes black
> and freezes. I also have a Macrium Rescue Ver. 7 on CD. If I put
> this into my external CD/DVD drive (the Windows 11 machine has no
> optical drive of it's own), it does load up ("Windows is loading
> files...") but once the Windows flag logo appears, all things freeze.
>
> I did try both the USB Ver. 8 and DVD Ver. 7 in my Windows 7 machine,
> and both worked just fine, and I was able to accesss my Windows 11
> .mrimg image.
>
> Also, the choices I had on the Boot Code Options were:
> Reset the boot disk ID
> Replace the Master Boot Record
> Replace the partition sector boot code
> Rebuild the Boot Configuration Database (BCD) and boot.ini files
>
> I just can't get the Windows 11 machine to load either Macrium Rescue
> program.
>
> Using diskpart, I was able to look at the volumes on the Windows 11
> machine. I had all external devices plugged in, and diskpart listed
> them all, and all were healthy. Diskpart also identified my drive C:
> as the 500GB SDD. If logging on to C:, I could see all the folders I
> expected to see.
>
> I'm going to try and make a Macrium Version 8 DVD on my Windows 10
> machine and see if I can get it to boot on the Windows 11 machine.
>
>
I used my Windows 7 machine (the Windows 10 machine was tied up) to make
a DVD of Macrium Ver. 8 RE. It loaded the Windows files, but when it
was "Starting Windows", it froze with the Windows flag logo, just like
when using the Ver. 7 RE, earlier.

On 9/5/2023 12:08 AM, Boris wrote:

> I used my Windows 7 machine (the Windows 10 machine was tied up) to make
> a DVD of Macrium Ver. 8 RE. It loaded the Windows files, but when it
> was "Starting Windows", it froze with the Windows flag logo, just like
> when using the Ver. 7 RE, earlier.
>
> I also used the Windows 7 machine to make a USB stick of Marcium Ver. 8
> PE. It showed up on the Boot Menu, and when booted, the Dell logo
> appeared, then Reflect 8 appeared, I selected the Restore tab, then Fix
> Windows Boot Problems. The screen next showed the machine checking
> files, and finally showed the machine fixing file(s). The messages went
> by too fast for me to write them down. Finally, the machine booted up
> to my C: drive (SDD) with everything still intact.
>
> The only issue I have now is that when shutting down and then starting
> back up, I'm asked if I want to load Windows 11 from Volume 11, or
> Windows 11.
>
> I've read that the Windows 11 (that is not the current Default OS) can
> be deleted from within System Configuration. But, when I type in
> msconfig in the Run box, nothing happens. How do I get msconfig to
> appear in Windows 11?
>

I can do Start : Run : "msconfig" as an executable, and that works for me.

I can also open administrator terminal if I want, and typing "msconfig" there works for me.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/9M5J89CJ/msconfig-from-start-run-box-W11-no-secure-boot.gif

I don't really know what that software will tolerate. Can you
"saw off the branch you are standing on" ? I don't know.

But with your ready supply of Full backups as you make
progress, you won't have far to go to fix it up again. Right ?

You do have to be careful, because in the odd case, the
boot materials may actually be on the partition you're
trying to delete.

That's possibly why there is a

bcdboot D:\Windows /s _________

and the /s option allows the command to install boot files somewhere,
in a place of your choosing.

Any time I see examples, like the one in the photo above, I have to
wonder just how many details the software is aware of. Interfaces like
that make me nervous.

I would sooner trust (third-party) EasyBCD for this, than msconfig.
I would be making a backup in both cases.

*******

My next job here, is to clean up a disk on the Optiplex Refurb
that is an awful mess. Something happened during an upgrade install,
that's going to require a significant effort to fix. And it will have
similar elements to what you're doing. I will be cloning over bits
and pieces to a spare drive, so the original drive is left untouched.
I would not expect the Macrium Boot Repair, to have anywhere near enough
capability, to lash it back together, which is why the Boot Repair is
not part of my plan at the moment. And it's not an EasyBCD candidate, since
some boot materials need to be moved from one partition to another.

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:ud70tv$1ukjr$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/5/2023 12:08 AM, Boris wrote:
>
>> I used my Windows 7 machine (the Windows 10 machine was tied up) to
>> make a DVD of Macrium Ver. 8 RE. It loaded the Windows files, but
>> when it was "Starting Windows", it froze with the Windows flag logo,
>> just like when using the Ver. 7 RE, earlier.
>>
>> I also used the Windows 7 machine to make a USB stick of Marcium Ver.
>> 8 PE. It showed up on the Boot Menu, and when booted, the Dell logo
>> appeared, then Reflect 8 appeared, I selected the Restore tab, then
>> Fix Windows Boot Problems. The screen next showed the machine
>> checking files, and finally showed the machine fixing file(s). The
>> messages went by too fast for me to write them down. Finally, the
>> machine booted up to my C: drive (SDD) with everything still intact.
>>
>> The only issue I have now is that when shutting down and then
>> starting back up, I'm asked if I want to load Windows 11 from Volume
>> 11, or Windows 11.
>>
>> I've read that the Windows 11 (that is not the current Default OS)
>> can be deleted from within System Configuration. But, when I type in
>> msconfig in the Run box, nothing happens. How do I get msconfig to
>> appear in Windows 11?
>>
>
> I can do Start : Run : "msconfig" as an executable, and that works for
> me.
>
> I can also open administrator terminal if I want, and typing
> "msconfig" there works for me.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/9M5J89CJ/msconfig-from-start-run-box-W11-no-se
> cure-boot.gif
>
> I don't really know what that software will tolerate. Can you
> "saw off the branch you are standing on" ? I don't know.
>
> But with your ready supply of Full backups as you make
> progress, you won't have far to go to fix it up again. Right ?
>
> You do have to be careful, because in the odd case, the
> boot materials may actually be on the partition you're
> trying to delete.
>
> That's possibly why there is a
>
> bcdboot D:\Windows /s _________
>
> and the /s option allows the command to install boot files somewhere,
> in a place of your choosing.
>
> Any time I see examples, like the one in the photo above, I have to
> wonder just how many details the software is aware of. Interfaces like
> that make me nervous.
>
> I would sooner trust (third-party) EasyBCD for this, than msconfig.
> I would be making a backup in both cases.
>
> *******
>
> My next job here, is to clean up a disk on the Optiplex Refurb
> that is an awful mess. Something happened during an upgrade install,
> that's going to require a significant effort to fix. And it will have
> similar elements to what you're doing. I will be cloning over bits
> and pieces to a spare drive, so the original drive is left untouched.
> I would not expect the Macrium Boot Repair, to have anywhere near
> enough capability, to lash it back together, which is why the Boot
> Repair is not part of my plan at the moment. And it's not an EasyBCD
> candidate, since some boot materials need to be moved from one
> partition to another.
>
> Paul

The machine always booted to the (main) Windows 11 OS, and the image
restored was from 9/2/2023, which was my latest image, but I wanted to
get into msconfig to get to the System Configuration Boot tab to delete
the unwanted Windows 11 OS from booting, so to have only the Windows
11(C:\Windows): Current OS; Default OS in the Boot tab.

I tried many procedures found online, some command line, and one sent me
to the Settings to check on updates (which is what got me in trouble in
the first place). While in Settings, I was told that there were updates
waiting to be downloaded and installed, but the Download and Install
button was inactive; it didn't work.

Again, I tried many procedures to fix this. DISM, renaming update files
to .old and hoping to get new ones, which did get new ones, but still no
luck. Nothing worked. The button remained greyed out.

So I still had two problems. Although the machine booted up properly, I
couldn't get rid of the extra Windows 11 OS showing up in the Boot tab,
and I couldn't update, which was going to cause future problems.

(Also, some of the native apps were not assigned file extensions and had
to be reset.)

And there may have been other problems that I had not yet run into or
discovered.

I decided to keep restore another image, one from 7/6/2023. I knew
there would be some files missing, but nothing major. I restored all
partitions back to 7/6/2023, and the desktop that came up was familiar.

I could not get into System Configuration, and updates now works.

I did anticipate I'd re-download emails from 7/7/2023 to today, about
700. (I do POP3 with save on server.)

Let's hope there are no more surprises, but this is Microsoft.

Time to backup.

Thanks for helping.

Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in news:XnsB076A0D6FB7nospaminvalidcom@
135.181.20.170:

> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:ud70tv$1ukjr$1@dont-
email.me:
>
>> On 9/5/2023 12:08 AM, Boris wrote:
>>
>>> I used my Windows 7 machine (the Windows 10 machine was tied up) to
>>> make a DVD of Macrium Ver. 8 RE. It loaded the Windows files, but
>>> when it was "Starting Windows", it froze with the Windows flag logo,
>>> just like when using the Ver. 7 RE, earlier.
>>>
>>> I also used the Windows 7 machine to make a USB stick of Marcium Ver.
>>> 8 PE. It showed up on the Boot Menu, and when booted, the Dell logo
>>> appeared, then Reflect 8 appeared, I selected the Restore tab, then
>>> Fix Windows Boot Problems. The screen next showed the machine
>>> checking files, and finally showed the machine fixing file(s). The
>>> messages went by too fast for me to write them down. Finally, the
>>> machine booted up to my C: drive (SDD) with everything still intact.
>>>
>>> The only issue I have now is that when shutting down and then
>>> starting back up, I'm asked if I want to load Windows 11 from Volume
>>> 11, or Windows 11.
>>>
>>> I've read that the Windows 11 (that is not the current Default OS)
>>> can be deleted from within System Configuration. But, when I type in
>>> msconfig in the Run box, nothing happens. How do I get msconfig to
>>> appear in Windows 11?
>>>
>>
>> I can do Start : Run : "msconfig" as an executable, and that works for
>> me.
>>
>> I can also open administrator terminal if I want, and typing
>> "msconfig" there works for me.
>>
>> [Picture]
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/9M5J89CJ/msconfig-from-start-run-box-W11-no-
se
>> cure-boot.gif
>>
>> I don't really know what that software will tolerate. Can you
>> "saw off the branch you are standing on" ? I don't know.
>>
>> But with your ready supply of Full backups as you make
>> progress, you won't have far to go to fix it up again. Right ?
>>
>> You do have to be careful, because in the odd case, the
>> boot materials may actually be on the partition you're
>> trying to delete.
>>
>> That's possibly why there is a
>>
>> bcdboot D:\Windows /s _________
>>
>> and the /s option allows the command to install boot files somewhere,
>> in a place of your choosing.
>>
>> Any time I see examples, like the one in the photo above, I have to
>> wonder just how many details the software is aware of. Interfaces like
>> that make me nervous.
>>
>> I would sooner trust (third-party) EasyBCD for this, than msconfig.
>> I would be making a backup in both cases.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> My next job here, is to clean up a disk on the Optiplex Refurb
>> that is an awful mess. Something happened during an upgrade install,
>> that's going to require a significant effort to fix. And it will have
>> similar elements to what you're doing. I will be cloning over bits
>> and pieces to a spare drive, so the original drive is left untouched.
>> I would not expect the Macrium Boot Repair, to have anywhere near
>> enough capability, to lash it back together, which is why the Boot
>> Repair is not part of my plan at the moment. And it's not an EasyBCD
>> candidate, since some boot materials need to be moved from one
>> partition to another.
>>
>> Paul
>
> The machine always booted to the (main) Windows 11 OS, and the image
> restored was from 9/2/2023, which was my latest image, but I wanted to
> get into msconfig to get to the System Configuration Boot tab to delete
> the unwanted Windows 11 OS from booting, so to have only the Windows
> 11(C:\Windows): Current OS; Default OS in the Boot tab.
>
> I tried many procedures found online, some command line, and one sent
me
> to the Settings to check on updates (which is what got me in trouble in
> the first place). While in Settings, I was told that there were
updates
> waiting to be downloaded and installed, but the Download and Install
> button was inactive; it didn't work.
>
> Again, I tried many procedures to fix this. DISM, renaming update
files
> to .old and hoping to get new ones, which did get new ones, but still
no
> luck. Nothing worked. The button remained greyed out.
>
> So I still had two problems. Although the machine booted up properly,
I > couldn't get rid of the extra Windows 11 OS showing up in the Boot tab,
> and I couldn't update, which was going to cause future problems.
>
> (Also, some of the native apps were not assigned file extensions and
had
> to be reset.)
>
> And there may have been other problems that I had not yet run into or
> discovered.
>
> I decided to keep restore another image, one from 7/6/2023. I knew
> there would be some files missing, but nothing major. I restored all
> partitions back to 7/6/2023, and the desktop that came up was familiar.
>
> I could not get into System Configuration, and updates now works.

I could NOW get into ...

>
> I did anticipate I'd re-download emails from 7/7/2023 to today, about
> 700. (I do POP3 with save on server.)
>
> Let's hope there are no more surprises, but this is Microsoft.
>
> Time to backup.
>
> Thanks for helping.