Hello all,

I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only - and
would like to have the commandline keystokes ctrl-arrow-left and
ctrl-arrow-right emit the same (vt100 ?) control sequences as alt-F (word
forward) and alt-B (word backward) do.

Is this possible, and if so how ? Which config file would I have to edit ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 2023-04-27 12:08, R.Wieser wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only - and
> would like to have the commandline keystokes ctrl-arrow-left and
> ctrl-arrow-right emit the same (vt100 ?) control sequences as alt-F (word
> forward) and alt-B (word backward) do.
>
> Is this possible, and if so how ? Which config file would I have to edit ?

Some editors, like joe, can be made to react to ctrl-right_arrow.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos,

> Some editors, like joe, can be made to react to ctrl-right_arrow.

Thanks, but my current focus is on the commandline (and stdin). I'm using
it quite often editing previous lines, and be quite usefull there.

Currently my to-go editor is nano,and it does support those keystrokes.
Which is probably why I want to be able to use them on the commandline as
well.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

R.Wieser wrote:
> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only

Which terminal?

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> R.Wieser wrote:
>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>
> Which terminal?
>
That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what you
want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.

--
Mike Easter

On 2023-04-27 21:37, Mike Easter wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> R.Wieser wrote:
>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>
>> Which terminal?
>>
> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what you
> want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.

There is only one "terminal". Remember, text mode terminal.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> R.Wieser wrote:
>>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>>
>>> Which terminal?
>>>
>> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what you
>> want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.
>
> There is only one "terminal". Remember, text mode terminal.
>
I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that is
what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.

I'm running LM Cinnamon which uses gnome terminal (emulator) and its
shortcut keys are configurable/editable.

--
Mike Easter

On 2023-04-27 22:53, Mike Easter wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>> R.Wieser wrote:
>>>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>>>
>>>> Which terminal?
>>>>
>>> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what you
>>> want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.
>>
>> There is only one "terminal". Remember, text mode terminal.
>>
> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that is
> what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>
> I'm running LM Cinnamon which uses gnome terminal (emulator) and its
> shortcut keys are configurable/editable.
>

But the context of the OP says that terminal here means the console.
There are no graphics on that machine.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> There is only one "terminal". Remember, text mode terminal.
>>>
>> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that is
>> what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>>
>> I'm running LM Cinnamon which uses gnome terminal (emulator) and its
>> shortcut keys are configurable/editable.
>
> But the context of the OP says that terminal here means the console.
> There are no graphics on that machine.
>
OK, but what keeps the console/terminal from having the same
configurable shortcut keys as mine?

That is, maybe one wouldn't configure them graphically, as I can mine,
but it seems there could be a terminal/console configuration file to
include shortcuts.

--
Mike Easter

Mike,

>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>
> Which terminal?

I have absolutily no idea. I do not even know where to find that
information. :-\

Also, do you have any idea how/where I can find which of the vt??? types
my /a terminal uses ?

> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what
> you want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.

If you fon't mind, I would first like to see if the terminal I currently
have is configurable that way.

> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that
> is what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.

In this case its not emulated. bullseye *lite* doesn't come with a GUI.

> it seems there could be a terminal/console configuration file to
> include shortcuts.

And thats what I was hoping to find out : if there is a configuration file
involved and if so what its name is.

Perhaps even an URL to a webpage describing how to make such changes ... :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 02:11:54 -0400, R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Mike,
>
>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>
>> Which terminal?
>
> I have absolutily no idea. I do not even know where to find that
> information. :-\
>
> Also, do you have any idea how/where I can find which of the vt??? types
> my /a terminal uses ?
>
>> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what
>> you want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.
>
> If you fon't mind, I would first like to see if the terminal I currently
> have is configurable that way.
>
>> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that
>> is what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>
> In this case its not emulated. bullseye *lite* doesn't come with a GUI.
>
>> it seems there could be a terminal/console configuration file to
>> include shortcuts.
>
> And thats what I was hoping to find out : if there is a configuration file
> involved and if so what its name is.
>
> Perhaps even an URL to a webpage describing how to make such changes ... :-)
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

I don't have a copy of rasberian handy (I'm currently running Mageia 8 on my
rpi 4b), but I think it uses systemd and for the terminal agetty.

Look at the text file /usr/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service (if it exists).
It should have a line starting with "ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty".

If so, then "/usr/sbin/agetty --help" or "man agetty" shows the limited
options it has available to configure it. It's a tiny program, so doesn't
have many options. All it does is create the tty and start the login process.

The login process will run whatever is specified in /etc/passwd for the user that
you login as. Usually it's /bin/bash, though it can be configured to use other
shells such as ksh.

I'm not sure what you mean by "add a keystroke translation". If you can confirm
it's using agetty and bash, and give a more concrete example of what it is
you're trying to do, it may be possible to do with something like a bash
alias.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

R.Wieser wrote:
> Mike,
>
>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>
>> Which terminal?
>
> I have absolutily no idea. I do not even know where to find that
> information. :-\
>
> Also, do you have any idea how/where I can find which of the vt??? types
> my /a terminal uses ?
>
>> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what
>> you want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.
>
> If you fon't mind, I would first like to see if the terminal I currently
> have is configurable that way.
>
>> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that
>> is what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>
> In this case its not emulated. bullseye *lite* doesn't come with a GUI.
>
>> it seems there could be a terminal/console configuration file to
>> include shortcuts.
>
> And thats what I was hoping to find out : if there is a configuration file
> involved and if so what its name is.
>
> Perhaps even an URL to a webpage describing how to make such changes ... :-)
>
I've never seen Raspbian Lite; I have a 'conventional' Raspbian GUI
running on my old RPi 3B; I considered putting the current Lite on a
little SD card to boot it up, but I was too lazy for that :-)

I watched a vid of someone showing Raspbian lite (I don't usually like
vids, but I liked that one) and I noticed that the terminal had menu/s
and also that there was a Raspberry Pi Software Configuration Tool
(raspi-config) which is a TUI w/ quite a few configurations, but I
didn't see anything for shortcuts or keybindings in there.

Since the terminal has menu/s, I assume that its Help tells what the
terminal is; mine (emulator) even has a link to its website page and
help for it.

10:31 vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2BiOHy-aA Raspberry Pi
Raspbian Buster Lite Initial (Command Line) Setup

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> I've never seen Raspbian Lite; I have a 'conventional' Raspbian GUI
> running on my old RPi 3B; I considered putting the current Lite on a
> little SD card to boot it up, but I was too lazy for that :-)

Not that I'm 'anti-' CLI, but...

.... I found this interesting tutorial in the RPi forum (from 2021):

https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=312104 Definitive guide
to configure extremely lightweight GUI with Raspbian Lite + Openbox.

> Raspbian Lite + Openbox gives me about a 15% performance increase over Raspbian Full using the xfce4 DE. Know that this minimalist setup will look just as the full xfce4 DE, without all the clutter.

.... and there are a lot of little 'experience' pearls along the way in
his lesson.

My old Raspbian is kinda OB w/ some pieces from LXDE.

--
Mike Easter

On 2023-04-27, Mike Easter wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> But the context of the OP says that terminal here means the console.
>> There are no graphics on that machine.
>>
> OK, but what keeps the console/terminal from having the same
> configurable shortcut keys as mine?

Your "configuration" is handled via X, not the actual TTY driver. It
doesn't offer the same sort of "configurability".

That being said, it is _possible_ that either bash's inbuilt 'bind' tool
(see 'help bind') or customizing inputrc will allow something
approaching the desired functionality.

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

On 4/28/2023 4:27 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
> R.Wieser wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>>>> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only
>>>
>>> Which terminal?
>>
>> I have absolutily no idea.  I do not even know where to find that
>> information. :-\
>>
>> Also, do you have any idea how/where I can find which of the vt??? types
>> my /a terminal uses ?
>>
>>> That leads to 'pick a terminal that can be configured to do what
>>> you want'; but I don't know which terminals are the most configurable.
>>
>> If you fon't mind, I would first like to see if the terminal I currently
>> have is configurable that way.
>>
>>> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that
>>> is what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>>
>> In this case its not emulated.  bullseye *lite* doesn't come with a GUI.
>>
>>> it seems there could be a terminal/console configuration file to
>>> include shortcuts.
>>
>> And thats what I was hoping to find out : if there is a configuration file
>> involved and if so what its name is.
>>
>> Perhaps even an URL to a webpage describing how to make such changes ... :-)
>>
> I've never seen Raspbian Lite; I have a 'conventional' Raspbian GUI running on my old RPi 3B; I considered putting the current Lite on a little SD card to boot it up, but I was too lazy for that :-)
>
> I watched a vid of someone showing Raspbian lite (I don't usually like vids, but I liked that one) and I noticed that the terminal had menu/s and also that there was a Raspberry Pi Software Configuration Tool (raspi-config) which is a TUI w/ quite a few configurations, but I didn't see anything for shortcuts or keybindings in there.
>
> Since the terminal has menu/s, I assume that its Help tells what the terminal is; mine (emulator) even has a link to its website page and help for it.
>
> 10:31 vid  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2BiOHy-aA  Raspberry Pi Raspbian Buster Lite Initial (Command Line) Setup
>

For the terminal type (VT100):

echo $TERM

xterm-256color

and that presumably tells you something about what
character sequences it might support. The terminal that
was collected in, has color highlighting. I checked my
Mint VM, and it uses the same $TERM value.

*******

When the OS runs X11 and has windows, the terminal has a
scroll bar, is resizable and you can move it around.

In such a case, you might see it running via the "ps" command.

If you were running something like FreeBSD, the screen
becomes a 24x80 terminal. There is no scroll bar. While
you can use the "less" command to examine a window of
some output, that is not scrolling as such.

And with no decoration, and just working in the console,
there might be no terminal at all. It might be bash shell,
and using the "ps" command, you're likely to see bash running
in all cases. So that does not tell you much. Except that
you were not able to find a Terminal program running.

In this example, there's no decorations around the outside,
no scroll bar on the right.

https://i0.wp.com/www.itsfoss.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Boot.png?w=657&ssl=1

The reason I looked for a FreeBSD, is I used to run FreeBSD here,
even bought a set of the CDs with the FreeBSD on it. And it
had the irritating feature of starting at 640x480 and for some
reason, I ended up using composite output and driving my
little TV set with it. That's when I discovered just how
poor the DC restoration was on that port. I could barely read
the output. (It turns out, a Channel 3 RF modulator is an
excellent way to return the levels of intensity back to
correct values. But I figured that out at a later date. I never
would have suspected an RF modulator would clean up the picture
like it did. But it did.)

Paul

David,

> Look at the text file /usr/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service (if it
> exists).

It does,

> It should have a line starting with "ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty".

and it does.

> If so, then "/usr/sbin/agetty --help" or "man agetty" shows the limited
> options it has available to configure it.

I scanned both the getty@.service file as wel as the "man agetty"
information, but did not see anything mentioned towards keystroke
translation. But maybe that is because I'm barking up on the wrong tree
....

> If you can confirm it's using agetty and bash

I think you can consider it confirmed.

> I'm not sure what you mean by "add a keystroke translation"

Run "showkey -a" and press one of the arrow keys. You will see a VT100(?)
multi-character sequence like "^[[D" (ESC [ D). In other words, the
arrow-left keystroke is translated in a multi-byte VT100(?) sequence.

In my case pressing arrow-left and CTRL-arrow-left results in the same
vt100(?) sequence. I would like to have the CTRL-arrow-right emit a "^[B"
(ESC [ b) sequence instead - hopefully cause the cursor on the commandline
to jump to the begin of the word (just as if ALT B had been pressed).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 2023-04-27, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is only one "terminal". Remember, text mode terminal.
>>>>
>>> I always assume that 'terminal' means terminal emulator since that is
>>> what my 'consoles' or terminals always are.
>>>
>>> I'm running LM Cinnamon which uses gnome terminal (emulator) and its
>>> shortcut keys are configurable/editable.
>>
>> But the context of the OP says that terminal here means the console.
>> There are no graphics on that machine.
>>
> OK, but what keeps the console/terminal from having the same
> configurable shortcut keys as mine?

Nothing preventing it, the console is in the kernel and they give
you the source. That's doing it the hard way. The quiestion really
is what's the easiest way.

It seems that maybe there should be a tool called "kbd"

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

On 27/04/2023 11:08, R.Wieser wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm running (raspberian) bullseye lite - which means terminal only - and
> would like to have the commandline keystokes ctrl-arrow-left and
> ctrl-arrow-right emit the same (vt100 ?) control sequences as alt-F (word
> forward) and alt-B (word backward) do.
>
> Is this possible, and if so how ? Which config file would I have to edit ?
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
>
>
Does this help?
http://www.linuxproblem.org/art_17.html

--
Chris Elvidge
England

On 2023-04-28 14:28, R.Wieser wrote:
> David,
>
>> Look at the text file /usr/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service (if it
>> exists).
>
> It does,
>
>> It should have a line starting with "ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty".
>
> and it does.
>
>> If so, then "/usr/sbin/agetty --help" or "man agetty" shows the limited
>> options it has available to configure it.
>
> I scanned both the getty@.service file as wel as the "man agetty"
> information, but did not see anything mentioned towards keystroke
> translation. But maybe that is because I'm barking up on the wrong tree
> ...
>
>> If you can confirm it's using agetty and bash
>
> I think you can consider it confirmed.
>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "add a keystroke translation"
>
> Run "showkey -a" and press one of the arrow keys. You will see a VT100(?)
> multi-character sequence like "^[[D" (ESC [ D). In other words, the
> arrow-left keystroke is translated in a multi-byte VT100(?) sequence.
>
> In my case pressing arrow-left and CTRL-arrow-left results in the same
> vt100(?) sequence. I would like to have the CTRL-arrow-right emit a "^[B"
> (ESC [ b) sequence instead - hopefully cause the cursor on the commandline
> to jump to the begin of the word (just as if ALT B had been pressed).

Without knowing really how the keyboard works in Linux (I knew it in
depth for MsDOS), the keys like "control" are not normal keys, they act
outside the matrix, changing the bit value of some word. How that
translates in showkey, I don't know. But you can compare 'a' with '^a'
to find out.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Mike Easter wrote:
>
> https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=312104  Definitive guide
> to configure extremely lightweight GUI with Raspbian Lite + Openbox.
>
>> Raspbian Lite + Openbox gives me about a 15% performance increase over
>> Raspbian Full using the xfce4 DE. Know that this minimalist setup will
>> look just as the full xfce4 DE, without all the clutter.
>
> ... and there are a lot of little 'experience' pearls along the way in
> his lesson.
>
> My old Raspbian is kinda OB w/ some pieces from LXDE.

That old Raspbian has an LX terminal (emulator), it also just uses
125meg to the desktop, which is important, as the RPi3B only has 1 G ram.

The above 'project' sounds interesting to me and I have an extra SD card
or two. I like low resource graphical DE/WM distro/s. I can put Lite
on an SD and boot it up and add the pieces.

His is OB + XFCE parts; mine is OB + LXDE parts. I expect my older
LXDE-ish is going to be somewhat lighter than his XFCE-ish.

As an example of what the ob/lxde doesn't have, I add xkbset so that I
can have sticky keys, which the ob/lxde doesn't do 'natively'.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> ... and there are a lot of little 'experience' pearls along the way
> in his lesson.

An example of a pearl in configuring the Lite OB to be XFC-ish

> After you change the default passwords, I recommend configuring the
> Pi from ssh. Some of the commands in this guide are very long, and it
> would be easier to just copy/paste them. Up to you.

Besides, I've never done that ssh-ing :-)

--
Mike Easter

On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 08:28:18 -0400, R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
> Run "showkey -a" and press one of the arrow keys. You will see a VT100(?)
> multi-character sequence like "^[[D" (ESC [ D). In other words, the
> arrow-left keystroke is translated in a multi-byte VT100(?) sequence.
>
> In my case pressing arrow-left and CTRL-arrow-left results in the same
> vt100(?) sequence. I would like to have the CTRL-arrow-right emit a "^[B"
> (ESC [ b) sequence instead - hopefully cause the cursor on the commandline
> to jump to the begin of the word (just as if ALT B had been pressed).

I've never tried to modify what different keys generate, but take a look at
"man console_codes" and "man charsets". That should help identify what parts
are involved, but will require searching to figure out how to modify the
tables.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Chris,

> Does this help?
> http://www.linuxproblem.org/art_17.html

It does, very even.

The only difference is that in Rpi Bullseye the file is

/etc/default/keyboard

, and the line that needs to be added is

KMAP=/usr/local/mykeymap

(found the "kmap" entry in "man 5 keyboard")

Thanks.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Carlos,

> Without knowing really how the keyboard works in Linux (I knew it in depth
> for MsDOS), the keys like "control" are not normal keys, they act outside
> the matrix, changing the bit value of some word.

:-) If it would have been DOS than I would just have written a TSR to
translate keys to whatever I wanted.

My problem is similar to yours : I'm just too much of a newbie in regard to
Linux., and simply do not know squat about stuff like this.

> But you can compare 'a' with '^a' to find out.

the vt100(?) sequence itself wasn't the problem - I already had that and
confirmed it using "showkey -a" - it was where to place it.

Just before you Chris posted information on how to do it for SuSe, and it
gave me enough information to be able to find the way to do it on RPi
bullseye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

David,

> I've never tried to modify what different keys generate, but take a look
> at
> "man console_codes" and "man charsets". That should help identify what
> parts
> are involved, but will require searching to figure out how to modify the
> tables.

Chris posted information in that regard, which enabled me to make the
nessesary changes. But I will also look into the above, if only to get a
better grasp to whats all involved.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser