Just received 2 mails from VSI

End of Alpha and I64 community licenses

Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers

Or there is an Ambassador program

Not sure what to think yet...

--
Chris

On 26/03/2024 14:26, Chris Townley wrote:
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...
>

Actually I am not surprised. There have been a lot of VMS newbies
recently on the VSI forum, asking endless basic questions without even
trying to look in the manuals, and a fair number of responses from both
VSI and the community

However it is a real shame, as such people could well move into VMS
jobs, and spread the word

--
Chris

On 3/26/24 9:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...
>

Losing the Alpha option is my real pain point. Both my hobbyist systems
are Alphas (DS10 and PWS-600au).

The fact that they are summarily rejecting already submitted (but not
yet approved) requests quite frankly hurts.

In article <35b8ef5d-a3b2-4d03-9b43-73b2196374df@cropcircledogs.com>,
usenet@cropcircledogs.com says...
>
> On 3/26/24 9:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
> > Just received 2 mails from VSI
> >
> > End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
> >
> > Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> > licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
> >
> > Or there is an Ambassador program
> >
> > Not sure what to think yet...
> >
>
> Losing the Alpha option is my real pain point. Both my hobbyist systems
> are Alphas (DS10 and PWS-600au).
>
> The fact that they are summarily rejecting already submitted (but not
> yet approved) requests quite frankly hurts.

I could perhaps handle loosing Alpha if we weren't also loosing x86.

A fresh vmdk once a year is not an acceptable solution. I'm not setting
up a fresh VM every year, its not worth the effort.

On 2024-03-26, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/03/2024 14:26, Chris Townley wrote:
>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>
>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>
>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>
> Actually I am not surprised. There have been a lot of VMS newbies
> recently on the VSI forum, asking endless basic questions without even
> trying to look in the manuals, and a fair number of responses from both
> VSI and the community
>
> However it is a real shame, as such people could well move into VMS
> jobs, and spread the word
>

Nothing that I am about to say changes the fact this is VSI's product
and it is for them to decide who can get access to it and under what
conditions. There is no legitimate justification for any thinking that
we are "somehow" entitled to get free or low-cost access to anything
that VSI produces.

Having said that, IMHO, while I can understand some of the thinking based
on what I am seeing in the forum that Chris references above, this is a
really big mistake for VSI to do this at this point, when the product set
is not yet complete for x86-64 VMS (ie: BASIC).

If they want to discontinue free access to Alpha and IA64, then it should
also have been done with some notice to any new people wanting to sign up
today (as was done by HPE with VAX/VMS) and not simply hard-reject any
newcomers as they have decided to do. On the plus side, they are implementing
a HPE-style incremental phase-out for existing community members, which
is good to see.

Based on some of the things I am reading in the forum, I can well understand
why a pre-built image is a highly desirable option for some in VSI, but it's
not clear if a traditional ISO image will continue to be offered (it appears
it _may_ not be), which would be a mistake.

This ISO would give people practice with configuring VMS from the ground up
and give them exposure to the issues involved when managing VMS in a
production environment.

It is also not clear if additional Layered Products will be available for
download and installation into this pre-built image.

One final thought: when the licence in this pre-built image expires, can
we simply download a new licence into our existing pre-built image or do
we need to download a new pre-built image every time, then need to customise
this new pre-built image from scratch once agin ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2024-03-26, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/03/2024 14:26, Chris Townley wrote:
>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>
>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>
>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>
> Actually I am not surprised. There have been a lot of VMS newbies
> recently on the VSI forum, asking endless basic questions without even
> trying to look in the manuals, and a fair number of responses from both
> VSI and the community
>
> However it is a real shame, as such people could well move into VMS
> jobs, and spread the word
>

One further thought: I wonder what this means for systems like Eisner,
which are running on VSI time-limited licences ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

In article <utulvc$1pmvc$1@dont-email.me>, news@cct-net.co.uk says...
>
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...

I think the community license/hobbyist program has officially ended -
the x86 vmdks are something entirely different and a continuation of
that student thing they were doing before.

Going to be interesting to see what sort of damage this does to OpenVMS.
I suspect their "community engagement" is going to pretty much disappear
entirely as a result of this which may put the long-term future of
OpenVMS at risk.

Could do some significant damage to any open-source packages that aren't
being directly maintained by VSI themselves too. And not just on Alpha
and Itanium - I don't think I'd bother porting/maintaining stuff if its
not going to be used outside of perhaps a few commercial users even if I
could use the Ambassador program to do it at no cost.

And for that matter, what exactly is the purpose of the Ambassador
program? Why should I want to "bring value to VMS Software" when VMS
software has no interest in bringing value to the community? It sounds
an awful lot like an unpaid job to me, especially with the requirement
to participate in meetings and "report on your work in the ecosystem".

On Tue, 2024-03-26 at 10:29 -0500, Richard Jordan wrote:
> Losing the Alpha option is my real pain point.  Both my hobbyist
> systems are Alphas (DS10 and PWS-600au).
>
> The fact that they are summarily rejecting already submitted (but not
> yet approved) requests quite frankly hurts.

They said they would be issuing final licences in 2025. But they don't
mention if they are open ended or not. They need to confirm that.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

In article <70e8c2eb1369b2588aaac157c331a64440d8a3b8.camel@munted.eu>,
alex.buell@munted.eu says...
>
> On Tue, 2024-03-26 at 10:29 -0500, Richard Jordan wrote:
> > Losing the Alpha option is my real pain point.  Both my hobbyist
> > systems are Alphas (DS10 and PWS-600au).
> >
> > The fact that they are summarily rejecting already submitted (but not
> > yet approved) requests quite frankly hurts.
>
> They said they would be issuing final licences in 2025. But they don't
> mention if they are open ended or not. They need to confirm that.

I think it is very very safe to assume they are not open-ended. They're
giving Alpha and Itanium hobbyists a year to move off of OpenVMS.

On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...

(warning: this is going to be a long rant)

First announcement link:
https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/

The changes seems to be:
* student license program is dropped
* community license program is changed
- not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
- not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
* new VMS ambassador license
- with obligations to contribute
- license for all 3 platforms
- license+kit model

Reasons given are to solve problems:
* too much work managing licenses
* too little contribution back

I don't think the changes will solve the problems.

It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
it will stille be hassle.

And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
increase them.

In reality the changes could also be described differently:
* student license is being renamed to community license and
platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
* community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
and with a specific requirement for contributions

But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.

So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
then we will see:

25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
license is not for them
400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
the new community license
200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
because they don't like images
250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
new community license

or:

25 VMS ambassador licenses
350 new community license
625 drop outs

with:

50% reduction in contributors
no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics

But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.

And that is pretty bad!!!!

Arne

In article <utv9j6$2asrl$1@dont-email.me>, arne@vajhoej.dk says...
>
> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
> > Just received 2 mails from VSI
> >
> > End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
> >
> > Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> > licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
> >
> > Or there is an Ambassador program
> >
> > Not sure what to think yet...
>
> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
>
> First announcement link:
> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
>
> The changes seems to be:
> * student license program is dropped
> * community license program is changed
> - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
> - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
> * new VMS ambassador license
> - with obligations to contribute
> - license for all 3 platforms
> - license+kit model
>
> Reasons given are to solve problems:
> * too much work managing licenses
> * too little contribution back
>
> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
>
> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
> it will stille be hassle.
>
> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
> increase them.
>
> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
> * student license is being renamed to community license and
> platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
> and with a specific requirement for contributions
>
> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
>
> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
> then we will see:
>
> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
> license is not for them
> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
> the new community license
> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
> because they don't like images
> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
> new community license
>
> or:
>
> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
> 350 new community license
> 625 drop outs
>
> with:
>
> 50% reduction in contributors
> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
>
> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>
> And that is pretty bad!!!!

I wonder why community licenses were never automated. Why was there ever
a queue? Why did it need someone to do things to process it?

Surely they could have just had a form that added a row to a database
and then sent an email. Would have been a lot easier than all of this.

On 3/26/2024 4:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>
>
>
> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>
> And that is pretty bad!!!!
>
> Arne
>

Say good bye to the last of the DEC architectures as they join
the PDP-11.

bill

On 26/03/2024 20:13, David Goodwin wrote:
> In article <utv9j6$2asrl$1@dont-email.me>, arne@vajhoej.dk says...
>>
>> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
>>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>>
>>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>>
>>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>>
>>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>>
>>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
>>
>> First announcement link:
>> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
>>
>> The changes seems to be:
>> * student license program is dropped
>> * community license program is changed
>> - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
>> - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
>> * new VMS ambassador license
>> - with obligations to contribute
>> - license for all 3 platforms
>> - license+kit model
>>
>> Reasons given are to solve problems:
>> * too much work managing licenses
>> * too little contribution back
>>
>> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
>>
>> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
>> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
>> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
>> it will stille be hassle.
>>
>> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
>> increase them.
>>
>> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
>> * student license is being renamed to community license and
>> platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
>> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
>> and with a specific requirement for contributions
>>
>> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
>> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
>>
>> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
>> then we will see:
>>
>> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
>> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
>> license is not for them
>> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
>> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
>> the new community license
>> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
>> because they don't like images
>> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
>> new community license
>>
>> or:
>>
>> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
>> 350 new community license
>> 625 drop outs
>>
>> with:
>>
>> 50% reduction in contributors
>> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
>>
>> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>>
>> And that is pretty bad!!!!
>
> I wonder why community licenses were never automated. Why was there ever
> a queue? Why did it need someone to do things to process it?
>
> Surely they could have just had a form that added a row to a database
> and then sent an email. Would have been a lot easier than all of this.

Especially as the don't send out the X86 licenses - just one file on the
portal

--
Chris

On 3/26/2024 4:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and licensed
>> VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>
>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>
>> Not sure what to think yet...
>
> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
>
> First announcement link:
> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
>
> The changes seems to be:
> * student license program is dropped
> * community license program is changed
> - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
> - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
> * new VMS ambassador license
> - with obligations to contribute
> - license for all 3 platforms
> - license+kit model
>
> Reasons given are to solve problems:
> * too much work managing licenses
> * too little contribution back
>
> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
>
> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
> it will stille be hassle.
>
> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
> increase them.
>
> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
> * student license is being renamed to community license and
> platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
> and with a specific requirement for contributions
>
> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
>
> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
> then we will see:
>
> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador license
> is not for them
> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to the new
> community license
> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out because
> they don't like images
> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the new
> community license
>
> or:
>
> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
> 350 new community license
> 625 drop outs
>
> with:
>
> 50% reduction in contributors
> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
>
> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>
> And that is pretty bad!!!!
>
> Arne

Yeah, not what I feel is in any way positive.

What? Everyone thought VSI was going to be another DEC?

David has some things to be thankful for ...

Perpetual VAX license running on a VAXstation 4000 model 90A
Perpetual Alpha license running VMS V8.3 on an AlphaServer 800
Perpetual itanic license running on the boat anchor (not powered up for at least
a year)

No longer doing software work ...

:-)

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 26/03/2024 20:24, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 3/26/2024 4:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
>>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>>
>>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>>
>>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>>> licensed
>>> VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>>
>>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>>
>>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
>>
>> First announcement link:
>>
>> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
>>
>> The changes seems to be:
>> * student license program is dropped
>> * community license program is changed
>>   - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
>>   - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk
>> image
>> * new VMS ambassador license
>>   - with obligations to contribute
>>   - license for all 3 platforms
>>   - license+kit model
>>
>> Reasons given are to solve problems:
>> * too much work managing licenses
>> * too little contribution back
>>
>> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
>>
>> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
>> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
>> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
>> it will stille be hassle.
>>
>> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
>> increase them.
>>
>> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
>> * student license is being renamed to community license and
>>   platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
>> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
>>   and with a specific requirement for contributions
>>
>> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
>> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
>>
>> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
>> then we will see:
>>
>> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
>> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
>> license
>> is not for them
>> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
>> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
>> the new
>> community license
>> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
>> because
>> they don't like images
>> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
>> new
>> community license
>>
>> or:
>>
>> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
>> 350 new community license
>> 625 drop outs
>>
>> with:
>>
>> 50% reduction in contributors
>> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
>>
>> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>>
>> And that is pretty bad!!!!
>>
>> Arne
>
> Yeah, not what I feel is in any way positive.
>
> What?  Everyone thought VSI was going to be another DEC?
>
> David has some things to be thankful for ...
>
> Perpetual VAX license running on a VAXstation 4000 model 90A
> Perpetual Alpha license running VMS V8.3 on an AlphaServer 800
> Perpetual itanic license running on the boat anchor (not powered up for
> at least a year)
>
> No longer doing software work ...
>
> :-)
>

I might try to bring back to life my old firms development Vax and
Alpha. Some perpetual licenses there, albeit slow.

--
Chris

On 3/26/2024 4:13 PM, David Goodwin wrote:
> In article <utv9j6$2asrl$1@dont-email.me>, arne@vajhoej.dk says...
>>
>> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
>>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>>
>>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>>
>>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>>
>>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>>
>>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
>>
>> First announcement link:
>> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
>>
>> The changes seems to be:
>> * student license program is dropped
>> * community license program is changed
>> - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
>> - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
>> * new VMS ambassador license
>> - with obligations to contribute
>> - license for all 3 platforms
>> - license+kit model
>>
>> Reasons given are to solve problems:
>> * too much work managing licenses
>> * too little contribution back
>>
>> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
>>
>> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
>> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
>> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
>> it will stille be hassle.
>>
>> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
>> increase them.
>>
>> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
>> * student license is being renamed to community license and
>> platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
>> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
>> and with a specific requirement for contributions
>>
>> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
>> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
>>
>> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
>> then we will see:
>>
>> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
>> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
>> license is not for them
>> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
>> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
>> the new community license
>> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
>> because they don't like images
>> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
>> new community license
>>
>> or:
>>
>> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
>> 350 new community license
>> 625 drop outs
>>
>> with:
>>
>> 50% reduction in contributors
>> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
>>
>> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
>>
>> And that is pretty bad!!!!
>
> I wonder why community licenses were never automated. Why was there ever
> a queue? Why did it need someone to do things to process it?
>
> Surely they could have just had a form that added a row to a database
> and then sent an email. Would have been a lot easier than all of this.
>

Well, if it was/is that much work, then should that not indicate that there has
been plenty of interest? And if so, why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

Or, if there is such interest, perhaps some beancounter (everyone knows I
dislike beancounters, right?) sees it as a way to milk some money from the interest?

The community license seemed like someone understood. What happened to that
understanding?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 3/26/2024 4:48 PM, Chris Townley wrote:

> I might try to bring back to life my old firms development Vax and Alpha. Some
> perpetual licenses there, albeit slow.
>

I have to ask, slow for what? I assume you're not doing commercial work. Yeah,
not the latest stuff, but, plenty for hobbyist stuff.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

In article <utvdak$2bpcm$1@dont-email.me>, davef@tsoft-inc.com says...
>
> On 3/26/2024 4:13 PM, David Goodwin wrote:
> > In article <utv9j6$2asrl$1@dont-email.me>, arne@vajhoej.dk says...
> >>
> >> On 3/26/2024 10:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
> >>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
> >>>
> >>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
> >>>
> >>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> >>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
> >>>
> >>> Or there is an Ambassador program
> >>>
> >>> Not sure what to think yet...
> >>
> >> (warning: this is going to be a long rant)
> >>
> >> First announcement link:
> >> https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024-03-25-community-license-update/
> >>
> >> The changes seems to be:
> >> * student license program is dropped
> >> * community license program is changed
> >> - not available for Alpha and Itanium, only available for x86-64
> >> - not available as license+kit, only available as preinstalled disk image
> >> * new VMS ambassador license
> >> - with obligations to contribute
> >> - license for all 3 platforms
> >> - license+kit model
> >>
> >> Reasons given are to solve problems:
> >> * too much work managing licenses
> >> * too little contribution back
> >>
> >> I don't think the changes will solve the problems.
> >>
> >> It is obvious that VSI has been struggling with the community licenses,
> >> but VSI will still have to do commercial licenses, ISV licenses and
> >> the new VMS ambassador licenses. If that process is not automated, then
> >> it will stille be hassle.
> >>
> >> And I suspect that the change will reduce community contributions not
> >> increase them.
> >>
> >> In reality the changes could also be described differently:
> >> * student license is being renamed to community license and
> >> platform upgraded from Alpha to x86-64
> >> * community license is being renamed to VMS ambassador license
> >> and with a specific requirement for contributions
> >>
> >> But the student license was never popular as far as I can tell
> >> and the VMS ambassador requirements will scare people.
> >>
> >> So my best guess is that if we look at 1000 communityt license users,
> >> then we will see:
> >>
> >> 25 that has been contributing and will switch to VMS ambassador license
> >> 25 that has been contributing but will drop out because VMS ambassador
> >> license is not for them
> >> 400 that has been running VMS on Alpha and will drop out
> >> 100 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will switch to
> >> the new community license
> >> 200 that are oldtimers interested in VMS on x86-64 and will drop out
> >> because they don't like images
> >> 250 that are newcomers interested in VMS x86-64 and will switch to the
> >> new community license
> >>
> >> or:
> >>
> >> 25 VMS ambassador licenses
> >> 350 new community license
> >> 625 drop outs
> >>
> >> with:
> >>
> >> 50% reduction in contributors
> >> no change in number of newcomers needing a lot of handhelding with basics
> >>
> >> But I could be wrong, but that is what I predict.
> >>
> >> And that is pretty bad!!!!
> >
> > I wonder why community licenses were never automated. Why was there ever
> > a queue? Why did it need someone to do things to process it?
> >
> > Surely they could have just had a form that added a row to a database
> > and then sent an email. Would have been a lot easier than all of this.
> >
>
> Well, if it was/is that much work, then should that not indicate that there has
> been plenty of interest? And if so, why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?
>
> Or, if there is such interest, perhaps some beancounter (everyone knows I
> dislike beancounters, right?) sees it as a way to milk some money from the interest?
>
> The community license seemed like someone understood. What happened to that
> understanding?

I'd gladly buy non-expiring non-commercial VAX/Alpha/x86 licenses for a
reasonable price, like what HP/Compaq did for Tru64. Sadly that option
is not being offered.

On 2024-03-26, Richard Jordan <usenet@cropcircledogs.com> wrote:
> On 3/26/24 9:26 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Losing the Alpha option is my real pain point. Both my hobbyist systems
> are Alphas (DS10 and PWS-600au).
>
> The fact that they are summarily rejecting already submitted (but not
> yet approved) requests quite frankly hurts.

The loss of Alpha (and Integrity, although far fewer people collected
Itanium hardware) is about as relevant/damaging as the loss of the VAX
hobbyist program: almost not at all.

It's trivial to generate your own licenses a number of ways, so you can
continue to use it in perpetuity. And since it was already pretty much
the "honor system" to not use your hobbyist licenses for commercial
purposes, I have no ethical or moral qualms with the idea of using
OpenVMS on VAX or Alpha for personal self-education and history of
computing hobbyist purposes.

The access to the software itself was already at the point where, like
VAX, it seemed frozen in time for historical systems. Even though VSI
is, to my understanding, providing occasional updates to commercial
Alpha customers, the version available on the community SFTP server has
been the same for quite a while. Which is fine: VMS on Alpha is mature,
stable software and for most permitted uses (hobbyist non-commercial
use), I wouldn't expect to drop a system out on the open internet, so
even a lack of security patches hasn't worried me.

Anyway, hypothetically my VAX and Alpha could continue to run for my own
fun for many years to come, and I almost feel like while of course they
can't say it / encourage it, VSI is unceremoniously dropping the Alpha
and Integrity community programs because they know the enthusiast
community will take care of themselves and hush-hush wink-wink while
keeping it going behind the scenes for those who are really interested.

The loss of real installation media and LP kits for x86, though, is the
big loss here. While the relevance of VMS for x86 was already
questionable for anything beyond being a lifeline for companies still
stuck on VMS for one reason or another (from a hobbyist perspective, a
ton of the fun software never even made the jump from Alpha to Itanium,
let alone from Itanium to x86), it was fun to imagine a potential uptick
in interest in VMS due to being able to run (somewhat) easily on
hardware everyone has. The idea of downloading a pre-installed OS disk
image is of zero interest to me, so VMS for x86 will just fade back into
the abyss from which it recently emerged.

I get why VSI doesn't want to bother with any of this, though. Their
business perspective makes sense. Nothing is going to generate new
business interest in OpenVMS. No software company is going to make a new
product for OpenVMS. The entire thing only exists to keep customers who
are stuck on it going, and at the moment there is still enough money
there to sustain a business on providing that legacy system to those
companies. Even the best community program in the world isn't going to
change the fact that greenfield development on OpenVMS just isn't going
to happen. Customers are using it to keep running their line-of-business
critical in-house BASIC programs that store data in Rdb, etc. So why
would VSI care about trying to make stuff that only hobbyists want work?

I do find it kind of funny, though, that apparently they thought lots of
open source projects would be inspired to put time and effort into
getting their code to work on VMS x86, a closed-source, proprietary
operating system, just because a non-commercial, non-perpetual,
hit-or-miss-whether-the-form-to-request-it-will-even-work-and-if-you'll-
ever-make-it-to-the-top-of-the-queue was available. If that's what they
thought the benefit of the community program was -- that they could get
other people to do work for free for them to turn around and use as
justification for customers to stay on their proprietary platform and
keep paying them to move forward on VMS for x86 -- then yeah, of course
that vision of the community program failed!

Alas, the history of computing is littered with significant, important
historical software fading away into the sunset because the current
ownership is responsible for profits, not historical preservation and
community sustainability. The good news in this case is that VMS across
all of its important architectures is very well preserved and we don't
need VSI or anyone else to keep it going among those who are truly
interested and passionate.

If any of the above seems overly harsh or pessimistic... well, yeah, I'm
reacting to disappointing news and am certainly in a mental state
reflecting that.

But I'm also a realist and this ain't my first rodeo.

-Matthew

On 27/3/24 01:26, Chris Townley wrote:
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...
>

*I'm* certainly confused. The email says "Your current license is valid
through August 22, 2024", however

https://sp.vmssoftware.com/#/packages/676

says "x86 community licenses good through April 1, 2024", agreeing with
what licence list says. That's five days away for those of us on this
side of the dateline. I'm trying to avoid making April Fool's references.

--
eight-cubed.com

On 3/26/24 5:39 PM, Jim Duff wrote:
> On 27/3/24 01:26, Chris Townley wrote:
>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>
>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>
>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>
> *I'm* certainly confused.  The email says "Your current license is valid
> through August 22, 2024"

Which e-mail would that be? The announcement about discontinuing Alpha
and Integrity community licenses doesn't appear to have anything like
that statement. It did say the existing licenses would be renewed one
more time "in August" -- presumably August 2024.

, however
>
> https://sp.vmssoftware.com/#/packages/676
>
> says "x86 community licenses good through April 1, 2024", agreeing with
> what licence list says.  That's five days away for those of us on this
> side of the dateline.

So far the x86 license seems to go mostly by field test practices and
they have a PAK on the portal. I've been assuming that would change
sometime soon to how community has been working, but with the plug being
pulled on that, it's an open question how and when there will be another
PAK for OpenVMS x86. We've been told that at some point there will be
this vmdk thing, but whether that's effective *now* with no other
options, or whether there will be one more PAK on the portal, or what,
is not something I've seen mentioned.

>  I'm trying to avoid making April Fool's references.

Go ahead and send around an announcement that your patch syndication
service is back online :-). While we're lamenting things that were good
while they lasted :-(.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 21:21:50 -0000 (UTC), Matthew R. Wilson wrote:

> ... it was fun to imagine a potential uptick
> in interest in VMS due to being able to run (somewhat) easily on
> hardware everyone has.

You always could, with SIMH.

On 3/27/24 00:26, Chris Townley wrote:
> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>
> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>
> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>
> Or there is an Ambassador program
>
> Not sure what to think yet...
>

It's dead. They just killed VMS - there's no way you can do anything
useful with VMS anymore, there's no pipeline for new users. New owners
are just going to do the broadcom extract-maxiumum-gravy thing. I
wondered why my community license was taking seven months to provision.
"Long waiting list" my buttocks.

If you're using VMS in production, it's beyond time to find an alternative.

If you can't abide newbies, you don't deserve a motivated base.Dropping
a once-a-year toy version is 1990 nonsense.

--
motk

On 3/27/24 09:09, motk wrote:
> On 3/27/24 00:26, Chris Townley wrote:
>> Just received 2 mails from VSI
>>
>> End of Alpha and I64 community licenses
>>
>> Looks like a more restricted X86 - WE can download a pre-built and
>> licensed VMDK with a few LP, including compilers
>>
>> Or there is an Ambassador program
>>
>> Not sure what to think yet...
>>
>
>
> It's dead. They just killed VMS - there's no way you can do anything
> useful with VMS anymore, there's no pipeline for new users. New owners
> are just going to do the broadcom extract-maxiumum-gravy thing. I
> wondered why my community license was taking seven months to provision.
> "Long waiting list" my buttocks.
>
> If you're using VMS in production, it's beyond time to find an alternative.
>
> If you can't abide newbies, you don't deserve a motivated base.Dropping
> a once-a-year toy version is 1990 nonsense.
>

And a final thought - the Ambassador tier is just a way to extract
commercial value from the remaining die-hards. Harsh of me to say
perhaps but this is pathetic, and they've just poured forty years of
goodwill down the sink.

--
motk

On 3/27/24 04:43, Simon Clubley wrote:

> One further thought: I wonder what this means for systems like Eisner,
> which are running on VSI time-limited licences ?

Unless they jump through hoops for the Ambassador license tier, or run
the the naughty C program that generates keys, they're dead. And by design.

--
motk