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devel / comp.arch / Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

SubjectAuthor
* Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersThomas Koenig
+* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersScott Lurndal
|`* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersMitchAlsup
| `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersQuadibloc
|  `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
|   `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersPeter Lund
|    `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
|     `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersElijah Stone
|      `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersMitchAlsup
|       `- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersThomas Koenig
+* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersQuadibloc
|`* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersQuadibloc
| +* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJohn Dallman
| |+* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersScott Lurndal
| ||`- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJohn Dallman
| |+* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
| ||+* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJohn Dallman
| |||+- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersBGB
| |||`- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
| ||+- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJimBrakefield
| ||`* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersMichael S
| || `- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
| |`* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJohn Dallman
| | +- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersStephen Fuld
| | `- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersMitchAlsup
| `* Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersAnton Ertl
|  `- Re: Intel goes to 32-bit general purpose registersJohn Dallman
`* Intel goes to 32 GPRs (was: Intel goes to 32-bit ...)Anton Ertl
 `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRs (was: Intel goes to 32-bit ...)Quadibloc
  +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRs (was: Intel goes to 32-bit ...)Anton Ertl
  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
   `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
    `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     |   +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     |   `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     |    `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsScott Lurndal
     | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsScott Lurndal
     | | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | | | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | | |+* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | | ||`- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsQuadibloc
     | | | | `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     | | |  `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | |   `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     | | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | |`- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     | | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | | |+* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     | | ||+- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | ||`- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsJimBrakefield
     | | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     | | |   +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | |   `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     | | |    `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
     | | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsStephen Fuld
     | |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
     | |   +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsStephen Fuld
     | |   `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
     |   `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
     |    `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     |     `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsNiklas Holsti
     |      `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
     |       `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsNiklas Holsti
     |        `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsStephen Fuld
     |         +- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsNiklas Holsti
     |         `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsIvan Godard
     `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsKent Dickey
      +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
      |+* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsQuadibloc
      ||`- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
      |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsKent Dickey
      | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
      |  +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
      |  |+- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsAnton Ertl
      |  |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsEricP
      |  | +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
      |  | |`* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsThomas Koenig
      |  | | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
      |  | |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMitchAlsup
      |  | |   +* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsBGB
      |  | |   `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsTerje Mathisen
      |  | `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsStephen Fuld
      |  `* Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsKent Dickey
      +* Callee-saved registers (was: Intel goes to 32 GPRs)Anton Ertl
      `- Re: Intel goes to 32 GPRsMike Stump

Pages:12345678910
Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: cr88192@gmail.com (BGB)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:09:40 -0500
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 by: BGB - Fri, 15 Sep 2023 17:09 UTC

On 9/15/2023 3:43 AM, Ivan Godard wrote:
> On 9/14/2023 7:27 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
>>> MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:08:40 PM UTC-5, BGB wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2023 11:17 AM, John Levine wrote:
>>>>>> According to Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net>:
>>>>>>> Stefan Monnier <mon...@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>>> * This has been tuned to generate reasonable code on the vax
>>>>>>>>> using pcc.
>>>>>>>> ^^^ ^^^
>>>>>>>> Obviously, these are typos for AVX and GCC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it? I used pcc on the vax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Irony is wasted on the young.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe...
>>>>>
>>>>> I started my C programming journey with Turbo C,
>>>> <
>>>> Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>>>
>>> Not _that_ many, but at least a handful?
>>>
>>> I.e. I'm 66 so if I had found a way to access a real computer when I was
>>> 13 (i.e. 1970) I could have been a member of that club, but my first
>>> computer was the 1100 in university in 1977. :-(
>>
>> My first was a Burroughs B5500 in 1974, then a two year break
>> before access was available to a PDP-8.  So, 48 years since I
>> wrote my first BASIC program.  First C program was in 1979.
>>
>
> First was 360 ASM, 1968.

I think, around the first time I started messing with programming was
QBasic on a PC (on a 486 at that time; as this is what my parents had),
sometime around 3rd grade. This PC was running Windows 3.11, ...

Much before around 3rd grade or so, my computer use was more limited
(also there is a sort of "memory horizon", so I don't really remember
anything from before around the early 1990s).

I think I had an advantage here as, unlike a lot of the people around
me, I could read stuff (I think the idea was, I wasn't really taught how
to read, just sort of figured it out on my own).

Games of this era were mostly things like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom and
similar, along with various CD-ROM based FMV games.

Win95 and Quake mostly marked the end of this earlier era.

I think, ~ 3..5th grade, was mostly doing QBasic.
5th/6th: TurboC (but still used QBasic a lot)
7th/8th: Had jumped over to Cygwin/GCC;
By high school was mostly exclusively C and similar.

Had also messed with ASM a bit (via MASM) before jumping over to C.
Potentially counter-intuitively, at first, I found x86 ASM easier to
understand than C.

During the 7th/8th grade era was mostly messing with Quake and Quake2
(running a Pentium II).

Following an HDD crash, had jumped from Win9X to dual booting Linux
(Slackware) and NT4, and had tried using Linux as a primary OS for a
while. Was running a 500MHz Celeron for a while (originally came with
Win98, but Win98 sucked).

Around 9th grade, switched to dual booting Win2K and Mandrake (this was
still before WinXP came out). Also at some point replaced the
Celeron-based PC with one running an Athlon (along with getting a
GeForce 2 card for it).
In this era, some popular games were mostly things like Quake 3 Arena,
Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, ... Generally needed to be running Windows
for any of this experience though.

After graduating high-school, I got an Athlon64 and ended up running
WinXP X64. This PC was "buggy as hell", and a lot of software didn't
want to work with XP X64.
The XP-X64 situation seemed to improve over time.

Later got an Athlon X2, still kept using XP-X64 as Vista was basically
garbage... Near the end of my run in College, Win7 came out, and I
jumped over to this as it seemed like a worthy successor to XP-X64
(mostly running this on a Phenom II).

Have generally used computers for a lot longer in recent years, but this
is partly because of how much everything has slowed down...

In terms of superficial features, the main obvious differences between
modern PCs and what I had in high-school:
No more CRT monitors;
No more floppy drives;
IDE got replaced with SATA;
AGP got replaced with PCIe-X16;
Also, PC cases generally went from beige/off-white to black;
...

In terms of "what sort of code one can write", things haven't changed
that much...

It was more a challenge for me trying to adapt to the memory and
performance constraints of trying to write code for my BJX2 core.

Since, as I can note, by the time I started writing stuff in C,
computers were already a fair bit more capable than this.

....

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: gneuner2@comcast.net (George Neuner)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:20:32 -0400
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 by: George Neuner - Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:20 UTC

On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
<MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:

>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....

8-)

Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
learning C.

C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
Newsgroups: comp.arch
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:58 UTC

George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> writes:
>On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
><MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>
>8-)
>
>Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
>learning C.
>
>C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.

BASIC, Focal, PAL-D, SPL/3000, VAX Pascal, VAX Macro32, C, C++ in that order
between 1974 and 1989.

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
From: timcaffrey@aol.com (Timothy McCaffrey)
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 by: Timothy McCaffrey - Fri, 15 Sep 2023 21:52 UTC

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:58:26 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> George Neuner <gneu...@comcast.net> writes:
> >On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
> ><Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
> >
> >8-)
> >
> >Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
> >learning C.
> >
> >C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
> BASIC, Focal, PAL-D, SPL/3000, VAX Pascal, VAX Macro32, C, C++ in that order
> between 1974 and 1989.

Cobol, IBM System 3, at vocational school (Data processing class), using punch cards.
Basic, IBM 370, in high school using a teletype.
Fortran, IBM 1130 clone at a tech school (learned it from manuals from the public library for a programming contest) (punch cards)
Pascal (the original J&W compiler!), CDC 6500, extra credit for the programming class I was taking in college.
CDC assembler (Compass), SNOBOL, other assembly languages (I have lost track of how many).
At some point transitioned from punch cards to interactive terminals
Learned C in the 80s, learned C++ in the 90s, re-learned it again recently :).
Learned Perl, forgot it.
Learned Javascript, forgot it.
Learned Python, that I use occasionally, so I still remember some of it.

- Tim

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
From: MitchAlsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup)
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 by: MitchAlsup - Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:45 UTC

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:52:54 PM UTC-5, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:58:26 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > George Neuner <gneu...@comcast.net> writes:
> > >On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
> > ><Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
> > >
> > >8-)
> > >
> > >Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
> > >learning C.
> > >
> > >C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
> > BASIC, Focal, PAL-D, SPL/3000, VAX Pascal, VAX Macro32, C, C++ in that order
> > between 1974 and 1989.
> Cobol, IBM System 3, at vocational school (Data processing class), using punch cards.
> Basic, IBM 370, in high school using a teletype.
> Fortran, IBM 1130 clone at a tech school (learned it from manuals from the public library for a programming contest) (punch cards)
> Pascal (the original J&W compiler!), CDC 6500, extra credit for the programming class I was taking in college.
> CDC assembler (Compass), SNOBOL, other assembly languages (I have lost track of how many).
> At some point transitioned from punch cards to interactive terminals
> Learned C in the 80s, learned C++ in the 90s, re-learned it again recently :).
> Learned Perl, forgot it.
> Learned Javascript, forgot it.
> Learned Python, that I use occasionally, so I still remember some of it.
<
During my tenure at CMU 1971-1977 in approximate temporal order
WATFIV ~= FORTRAN 66 IBM 360/67
PL/C ~= PL/1 IBM 360/67
APL IBM 360/67
BAL IBM 360/67
Algol 60 Univac 1108
Simula Univac 1108
FOCAL PDP 8
PDP 8 Assembly PDP 8
BLISS PDP 10
BLISS PDP 11
PDP 10 Macro Assembly
SNOBOL IBM 360/67
COBOL IBM 360/67
Post College in temporal order
PDP 11 Assembly
BASIC CDC 7600
8080 Assembly
NCR BASIC (My team wrote it)
Z80 Assembly
FORTRAN 77 S.E.L
S.E.L Assembly
C VAX 11/760
c-shell
Perl
C Denelcor H.E.P (I wrote it)
68010 Assembly
Mc 88100 Assembly (I defined it along with Yoav Talgam)
SPARC V8 Assembly
SPARC V9 VIS Assembly
x86-64 Assembly (yes it took this long to get here)
Samsung GPU Assembly (I defined it)
My 66000 Assembly (I defined it, Brian and Thomas refined it)
<
Never got around to using C++, Java, Python, since I saw no particular need..

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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 by: moi - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:29 UTC

On 15/09/2023 23:45, MitchAlsup wrote:
> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:52:54 PM UTC-5, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
>> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:58:26 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> George Neuner <gneu...@comcast.net> writes:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
>>>> <Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>>>>
>>>> 8-)
>>>>
>>>> Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
>>>> learning C.
>>>>
>>>> C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
>>> BASIC, Focal, PAL-D, SPL/3000, VAX Pascal, VAX Macro32, C, C++ in that order
>>> between 1974 and 1989.
>> Cobol, IBM System 3, at vocational school (Data processing class), using punch cards.
>> Basic, IBM 370, in high school using a teletype.
>> Fortran, IBM 1130 clone at a tech school (learned it from manuals from the public library for a programming contest) (punch cards)
>> Pascal (the original J&W compiler!), CDC 6500, extra credit for the programming class I was taking in college.
>> CDC assembler (Compass), SNOBOL, other assembly languages (I have lost track of how many).
>> At some point transitioned from punch cards to interactive terminals
>> Learned C in the 80s, learned C++ in the 90s, re-learned it again recently :).
>> Learned Perl, forgot it.
>> Learned Javascript, forgot it.
>> Learned Python, that I use occasionally, so I still remember some of it.
> <
> During my tenure at CMU 1971-1977 in approximate temporal order
> WATFIV ~= FORTRAN 66 IBM 360/67
> PL/C ~= PL/1 IBM 360/67
> APL IBM 360/67
> BAL IBM 360/67
> Algol 60 Univac 1108
> Simula Univac 1108
> FOCAL PDP 8
> PDP 8 Assembly PDP 8
> BLISS PDP 10
> BLISS PDP 11
> PDP 10 Macro Assembly
> SNOBOL IBM 360/67
> COBOL IBM 360/67
> Post College in temporal order
> PDP 11 Assembly
> BASIC CDC 7600
> 8080 Assembly
> NCR BASIC (My team wrote it)
> Z80 Assembly
> FORTRAN 77 S.E.L
> S.E.L Assembly
> C VAX 11/760
> c-shell
> Perl
> C Denelcor H.E.P (I wrote it)
> 68010 Assembly
> Mc 88100 Assembly (I defined it along with Yoav Talgam)
> SPARC V8 Assembly
> SPARC V9 VIS Assembly
> x86-64 Assembly (yes it took this long to get here)
> Samsung GPU Assembly (I defined it)
> My 66000 Assembly (I defined it, Brian and Thomas refined it)
> <
> Never got around to using C++, Java, Python, since I saw no particular need.
>
>
1965 - present:

Sirius Autocode (for a decimal m/c with delay line store)
1900 PLAN assembler
FORTRAN IV
BASIC
KDF9 Algol
KDF9 assembler
LISP
SNOBOL
GPM
STAGE 2
Pascal
ALGOL W
PDP-11 assembler
C awk
Modula (not Modula 2)
ABC (Python ancestor)
VAX assembler
Ada 84
HTML
Ada 95
Java
Ada 2005
Ada 2012
Ada 2020

.... perhaps you sense a conclusion I came to ca. 1996?

--
Bill F.

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
From: jim.brakefield@ieee.org (JimBrakefield)
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 by: JimBrakefield - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 03:27 UTC

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:52:54 PM UTC-5, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:58:26 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > George Neuner <gneu...@comcast.net> writes:
> > >On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
> > ><Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
> > >
> > >8-)
> > >
> > >Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
> > >learning C.
> > >
> > >C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
> > BASIC, Focal, PAL-D, SPL/3000, VAX Pascal, VAX Macro32, C, C++ in that order
> > between 1974 and 1989.
> Cobol, IBM System 3, at vocational school (Data processing class), using punch cards.
> Basic, IBM 370, in high school using a teletype.
> Fortran, IBM 1130 clone at a tech school (learned it from manuals from the public library for a programming contest) (punch cards)
> Pascal (the original J&W compiler!), CDC 6500, extra credit for the programming class I was taking in college.
> CDC assembler (Compass), SNOBOL, other assembly languages (I have lost track of how many).
> At some point transitioned from punch cards to interactive terminals
> Learned C in the 80s, learned C++ in the 90s, re-learned it again recently :).
> Learned Perl, forgot it.
> Learned Javascript, forgot it.
> Learned Python, that I use occasionally, so I still remember some of it.
>
> - Tim

Many different macro assemblers which I find interesting and occasionally very useful.

Fortran on IBM 1620 in 1962, 1st semester of college
later Fortran on CDC1604, Univac 1108 & CDC 6600 but mostly on PDP11/34,
eventually BASIC on PDP12, Commodore PET and 6809
Macro assembler on 12+ ISAs (1620, 6600, 11/34, VAX. 68000, 6502, 8085, Z80, 6809, x86, PPC, LEM1_9min, others)
Occasionally hand assembly and in one case punched into column binary (two columns = 24 bit instruction).
LEM1_9 is a very simple single bit FPGA processor, more developed versions have return stack, index registers and BCD arithmetic.
Have used Pascal, C, C++, C#, Forth, Perl, Python, Numpy (AKA IDL and PV-wave for "programming in the large"), VHDL and Verilog
Currently favor VHDL, Julia (what modern Fortran should be) and Zig (a cleaner C with bit size specification of variables)

Pascal had a big effect on how I wrote Fortran:
Each subroutine started with a "C. Name: xxx one line description"
Followed by subroutine declaration,
a line for each parameter declaration and it's short text description,
a description paragraph and ending with a "C."

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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 by: Terje Mathisen - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 09:44 UTC

George Neuner wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
> <MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>
> 8-)
>
> Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
> learning C.
>
> C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
>
Fortran 2, Simula, Basic, Modula 2, asm, (Turbo) Pascal, then finally C.

Since then I've added a few more (C++, Prolog, Perl, Rust, Python etc)
but I guess I'm only really fluent in Perl. (Working on Rust & Python)

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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 by: Thomas Koenig - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 10:41 UTC

Ivan Godard <ivan@millcomputing.com> schrieb:
> On 9/14/2023 7:27 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
>>> MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:08:40 PM UTC-5, BGB wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2023 11:17 AM, John Levine wrote:
>>>>>> According to Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net>:
>>>>>>> Stefan Monnier <mon...@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>>> * This has been tuned to generate reasonable code on the vax using pcc.
>>>>>>>> ^^^ ^^^
>>>>>>>> Obviously, these are typos for AVX and GCC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it? I used pcc on the vax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Irony is wasted on the young.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe...
>>>>>
>>>>> I started my C programming journey with Turbo C,
>>>> <
>>>> Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>>>
>>> Not _that_ many, but at least a handful?
>>>
>>> I.e. I'm 66 so if I had found a way to access a real computer when I was
>>> 13 (i.e. 1970) I could have been a member of that club, but my first
>>> computer was the 1100 in university in 1977. :-(
>>
>> My first was a Burroughs B5500 in 1974, then a two year break
>> before access was available to a PDP-8. So, 48 years since I
>> wrote my first BASIC program. First C program was in 1979.
>>
>
> First was 360 ASM, 1968.

First, my father's Casio programmable calculator, 38 steps. Then,
Commodore 64 (BaSIC and some assembler), Casio 602P. IBM PC with
Turbo Pascal, Atari ST using Modula-2, IBM mainframe under MVS using
FORTRAN, HP-UX under C and FORTRAN, IRIX, Linux, Fujutsu VP under
an MVS clone and their Unix variant (which was truly weird), ...

I attended a lecture at the university I was studying, about
supercomputers (which at the time meant vector computers) and
mainframes and how to access them. A large part of the lecture
concerned the EXEC control language for the UNIVAC which had
already been decomissioned (so I missed that architecture).

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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 by: robf...@gmail.com - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:00 UTC

I began with Commodore PET BASIC when I was about 13, and quickly moved to
6502 assembler writing games. After that I am not exactly sure about the order
I learned things in. But I have worked with:

6800 assembler, 6809 assembler, 8086 assembler,
Pascal, C, C++, Java, Java Script, HTML, XML, Visual Basic, VBA, Verilog, VHDL,
System Verilog, 68000 assembler

And others spent less time at,
Apple Basic, MS Basic, COMAL, COBOL, FORTRAN, PROLOG, Z80 assembler,
8051 assembler, PHP, Python, Scala

Reminds me maybe I should update my resume.

re: old (was Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs)

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From: acolvin@efunct.com (mac)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: re: old (was Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 23:59:11 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: mac - Sat, 16 Sep 2023 23:59 UTC

1969 IBM (not DEC) 1130 Fortran, a machine that exemplifies the term
“subprogram linkage”
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1130#By_the_Fortran_compiler>, so not
before C
1970 Telcomp, pdp8 focal, PAL-iii
1973 DTSS Basic, APL, Lisp, PL/I(G). Sadly, their (unrevised) Algol68
compiler was never finished
I had my hands on an iAPX432 once
Some VHDL, some Tilera assembler

Despite a head start, I’m left in the dust. Nowadays I write packets in
Python.

--
mac the naïf

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:31 +0100 (BST)
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 by: John Dallman - Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:31 UTC

In article <99e9gillvuejcmkovkmj86hjtmm3jsedv6@4ax.com>,
gneuner2@comcast.net (George Neuner) wrote:

> C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.

Counts up: BASIC-PLUS, Pascal, an assembly language for a teaching
architecture, Algol 68, 8085 assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL, BBC Basic, 6502
assembler, then C.

Followed by CORAL-66, Applesoft Basic, BCPL, 8086 assembler, C++, Perl,
AGA (domain-specific language for mathematical modelling), 32-bit x86
assembler, LISP, SPARC assembler, Itanium assembler, 64-bit x86 assembler,
bash, ARM64 assembler, and Python.

John

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: vandys@vsta.org (Andy Valencia)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 06:43:19 -0700
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 by: Andy Valencia - Sun, 17 Sep 2023 13:43 UTC

jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) writes:
> > C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
> Counts up: BASIC-PLUS, Pascal, an assembly language for a teaching
> architecture, Algol 68, 8085 assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL, BBC Basic, 6502
> assembler, then C.
> Followed by CORAL-66, Applesoft Basic, BCPL, 8086 assembler, C++, Perl,
> AGA (domain-specific language for mathematical modelling), 32-bit x86
> assembler, LISP, SPARC assembler, Itanium assembler, 64-bit x86 assembler,
> bash, ARM64 assembler, and Python.

"A programming which doesn't change how you think isn't worth learning."
(Can't find who said that right now.)

A worthy list, I'd add a few which are distinct:

SNOBOL
Forth
Smalltalk
APL (or any along this line, like Backus' FP)

Andy Valencia
Home page: https://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: https://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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 by: John Dallman - Sun, 17 Sep 2023 17:43 UTC

In article <169495819965.721.12802791876625485279@media.vsta.org>,
vandys@vsta.org (Andy Valencia) wrote:

> "A programming [language] which doesn't change how you think
> isn't worth learning." (Can't find who said that right now.)

Depends on your value of "worth", really. I had not realised how many
assembly languages I have learned until I built that list. Most of them
were not intellectually challenging, but gave me confidence that I'd
grasped at least some aspects of the corresponding architecture.

I did find that after I'd learned Algol 68, all other block-structured
imperative languages were quite easy.

> A worthy list, I'd add a few which are distinct:
>
> SNOBOL
> Forth
> Smalltalk
> APL (or any along this line, like Backus' FP)

I never really got the hang of Forth, although I helped write an
interpreter for it. Never done the others.

John

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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From: gneuner2@comcast.net (George Neuner)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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 by: George Neuner - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:30 UTC

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 13:44:31 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
<MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 1:43:19?PM UTC-5, Michael S wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:47:16?PM UTC+3, Andy Valencia wrote:
>> > j...@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) writes:
>> > > > C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.
>> > > Counts up: BASIC-PLUS, Pascal, an assembly language for a teaching
>> > > architecture, Algol 68, 8085 assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL, BBC Basic, 6502
>> > > assembler, then C.
>> > > Followed by CORAL-66, Applesoft Basic, BCPL, 8086 assembler, C++, Perl,
>> > > AGA (domain-specific language for mathematical modelling), 32-bit x86
>> > > assembler, LISP, SPARC assembler, Itanium assembler, 64-bit x86 assembler,
>> > > bash, ARM64 assembler, and Python.
>> > "A programming which doesn't change how you think isn't worth learning."
>> > (Can't find who said that right now.)
>> >
>> “A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
>> is not worth knowing.” ? Alan J. Perlis, 1982
><
>Which brings into question:: How does one get 5-10 IPC from LISP programs ??

Use a parallel LISP?

Unfortunately *Common* Lisp is defined such that it is (almost)
relentlessly serial.

>> > A worthy list, I'd add a few which are distinct:
>> >
>> > SNOBOL
>> > Forth
>> > Smalltalk
>> > APL (or any along this line, like Backus' FP)
>> > Andy Valencia
>> > Home page: https://www.vsta.org/andy/
>> > To contact me: https://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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 by: George Neuner - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 20:44 UTC

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:20:32 -0400, George Neuner
<gneuner2@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:10:02 -0700 (PDT), MitchAlsup
><MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Many of us here were programming before C existed.....
>
>8-)
>
>Probably even more of us started out with other languages before
>learning C.
>
>C was my 4th language, after BASIC, 6502 assembly, and Pascal.

My own list is not nearly so distinguished as some here 8-|

In (roughly) chronological order, these I used extensively:

Applesoft BASIC
6502 assembly
Pascal (UCSD)
C
Microsoft qBASIC
8086 assembly
Scheme
Pascal (Turbo)
SQL
C++
ADSP-21K assembly
Java
Javascript

plus Yacc/Lex, Bison/Flex, PCCTS, Antlr, Microsoft's (COM) IDL, a
handful of shell languages, and some DSLs I created myself.

Along the way I have either had to use for some reason (for school,
for a one-off project, etc.), investigated for features I wanted to
put in a DSL, or simply screwed around with to satisfy curiosity:

6800 assembly
68000 assembly
Z80 assembly
*Lisp
C*
BASIC-PLUS (PDP-11)
Clojure
Common Lisp
dBase
Datalog
Dylan
Eiffel
Fortran
Forth
HyperTalk
Ladder
Modula-2
Modula-3
MUMPS
Oberon
OCaml
Occam
OPS5
Pascal (ISO)
Perl
Prolog
Python
QUEL
REXX
Ruby
Rust
Smalltalk
Snobol
Tcl

Actually got pretty good with some of these, but mostly unable to show
useful work done with them.

I think that's the whole list ... so far anyway. 8-)
YMMV.

Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs

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Subject: Re: lots of inline, Intel goes to 32 GPRs
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