I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
trying to tame plasma6 actually)

https://imgur.com/b9tejnh

Since I'm removing one of the distros from my stable I'm looking for a
replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that would fit well
in my decor?

I tried what I thought was the PcLinux installer but on boot see no way
to start an actual install and signing up to their forum don't seem to
work either.

--
Those so eager to go to war are usually either sub-human scrap or have
never seen combat, but there are those exceptions who have learned from
vets that killing is harder than dying because you survive it.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 08:53:15 -0400
bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce
> (just trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>
> https://imgur.com/b9tejnh
>
> Since I'm removing one of the distros from my stable I'm looking
> for a replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that
> would fit well in my decor?
>
> I tried what I thought was the PcLinux installer but on boot see no
> way to start an actual install and signing up to their forum don't
> seem to work either.

https://mxlinux.org/

The best and the only one I use.

You can use MX Tweak in the menu to move the panel to the bottom.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 08:53:15 -0400, bad sector wrote:

> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
> trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>
> https://imgur.com/b9tejnh
>
> Since I'm removing one of the distros from my stable I'm looking for a
> replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that would fit well
> in my decor?
>
> I tried what I thought was the PcLinux installer but on boot see no way
> to start an actual install and signing up to their forum don't seem to
> work either.

try

https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php

it was working this morning

i use this distro since its birthday, never had problems and i am only a
user, literaly user

--
Painters, electricians, comedians, journalists, rule the world.

On 3/16/24 10:48, andal wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 08:53:15 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
>> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
>> trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>>
>> https://imgur.com/b9tejnh
>>
>> Since I'm removing one of the distros from my stable I'm looking for a
>> replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that would fit well
>> in my decor?
>>
>> I tried what I thought was the PcLinux installer but on boot see no way
>> to start an actual install and signing up to their forum don't seem to
>> work either.
>
> try
>
> https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php
>
> it was working this morning
>
> i use this distro since its birthday, never had problems and i am only a
> user, literaly user

https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?action=register

"Sorry, automatic is currently disabled. Please email (first.polack at
gmail.com) with your desired nickame and password"

I did that days ago, no reply. Is PcLinux actively maintained? If so
then I'll keep an eye out.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 11:30:44 -0400, bad sector wrote:

> On 3/16/24 10:48, andal wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 08:53:15 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>
>>> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
>>> trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/b9tejnh
>>>
>>> Since I'm removing one of the distros from my stable I'm looking for a
>>> replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that would fit
>>> well in my decor?
>>>
>>> I tried what I thought was the PcLinux installer but on boot see no
>>> way to start an actual install and signing up to their forum don't
>>> seem to work either.
>>
>> try
>>
>> https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php
>>
>> it was working this morning
>>
>> i use this distro since its birthday, never had problems and i am only
>> a user, literaly user
>
> https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?action=register
>
> "Sorry, automatic is currently disabled. Please email (first.polack at
> gmail.com) with your desired nickame and password"
>
> I did that days ago, no reply. Is PcLinux actively maintained? If so
> then I'll keep an eye out.

I get all updates including kernel whenever new

You still may search forums

--
Painters, electricians, comedians, journalists, rule the world.

On 16/03/2024 13:53, bad sector wrote:
> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
> trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>
> I'm looking for a
> replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions that would fit well
> in my decor?

Have you tried one of these:

- Artix Linux: https://artixlinux.org
- Gentoo Binary:
https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html (needs a bit
reading)
- Redcore Linux: https://redcorelinux.org

--
//Aho

On 3/16/24 16:21, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 16/03/2024 13:53, bad sector wrote:
>> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce (just
>> trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>>
>> I'm looking for a replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions
>> that would fit well in my decor?
>
> Have you tried one of these:
>
>  - Artix Linux: https://artixlinux.org
>  - Gentoo Binary:
> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html (needs a bit
> reading)
>  - Redcore Linux: https://redcorelinux.org

Been running Artix for about two years now, very happy with it and with
support on the forum (from the perpspective of a clueless gringo). Tried
Gentoo but that one is really over my head, I mean like in the Titan
just before the implosion. Redcore is news to me, is that an easier
version of Gentoo, is it more robustly maintained/developed than MX?
I've BEEN using AvLinux which is a Debian/MX mix of sorts but with
systemd, MX itself sounds like something that might replace it, they
'provide' systemd but disabled. I'll keep Suse as the only with systemd
...for now.

On 17/03/2024 00.04, bad sector wrote:
> On 3/16/24 16:21, J.O. Aho wrote:
>> On 16/03/2024 13:53, bad sector wrote:
>>> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce
>>> (just trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a replacement (no systemd thank you). Any suggestions
>>> that would fit well in my decor?
>>
>> Have you tried one of these:
>>
>>   - Artix Linux: https://artixlinux.org
>>   - Gentoo Binary:
>> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html (needs a bit
>> reading)
>>   - Redcore Linux: https://redcorelinux.org
>
> Been running Artix for about two years now, very happy with it and with
> support on the forum (from the perpspective of a clueless gringo). Tried
> Gentoo but that one is really over my head, I mean like in the Titan
> just before the implosion.

Sure Gentoo has it's difficulties, but if you follow the binary setup
and don't change USE flags, then you should have a lot easier than when
building things from source, but of course there are times you need to
be a bit more hands on when there may be major changes.
Gentoo is one of my favorites, the only draw back has been the long
build times and things break while building, so my solution to simplify
things was to have a lxc which I used as the portage source and of
course where I built binary packages, when things had finished building,
then I did do the updates on the other machines, saved a lot of head
aches and never had a broken install on the machines I used.

> Redcore is news to me, is that an easier
> version of Gentoo, is it more robustly maintained/developed than MX?

It's a while since I used Redcore myself, it was mostly quite straight
forward, no hiccups until they made a fundamental change which made
things potentially break for those with older installs. You can still
use portage to install packages that's not supplied in Redcore, wasn't
that many that I missed so that worked fine for me.

> I've BEEN using AvLinux which is a Debian/MX mix of sorts but with
> systemd, MX itself sounds like something that might replace it, they
> 'provide' systemd but disabled. I'll keep Suse as the only with systemd
> ..for now.

I had Suse at my previous work, worked quite well and they had back then
picked just to use systemd partially. It's not fully up to my standards
for home use as the repositories do not supply everything I want to have.

--
//Aho

On 3/17/24 06:26, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 17/03/2024 00.04, bad sector wrote:
>> On 3/16/24 16:21, J.O. Aho wrote:
>>> On 16/03/2024 13:53, bad sector wrote:
>>>> I like to set my desktops up all much the same in plasma or xfce
>>>> (just trying to tame plasma6 actually)
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for a replacement (no systemd thank you). Any
>>>> suggestions that would fit well in my decor?
>>>
>>> Have you tried one of these:
>>>
>>>   - Artix Linux: https://artixlinux.org
>>>   - Gentoo Binary:
>>> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html (needs a
>>> bit reading)
>>>   - Redcore Linux: https://redcorelinux.org
>>
>> Been running Artix for about two years now, very happy with it and
>> with support on the forum (from the perpspective of a clueless
>> gringo). Tried Gentoo but that one is really over my head, I mean like
>> in the Titan just before the implosion.
>
> Sure Gentoo has it's difficulties, but if you follow the binary setup
> and don't change USE flags, then you should have a lot easier than when
> building things from source, but of course there are times you need to
> be a bit more hands on when there may be major changes.
> Gentoo is one of my favorites, the only draw back has been the long
> build times and things break while building, so my solution to simplify
> things was to have a lxc which I used as the portage source and of
> course where I built binary packages, when things had finished building,
> then I did do the updates on the other machines, saved a lot of head
> aches and never had a broken install on the machines I used.
>
>> Redcore is news to me, is that an easier version of Gentoo, is it more
>> robustly maintained/developed than MX?
>
> It's a while since I used Redcore myself, it was mostly quite straight
> forward, no hiccups until they made a fundamental change which made
> things potentially break for those with older installs. You can still
> use portage to install packages that's not supplied in Redcore, wasn't
> that many that I missed so that worked fine for me.
>
>> I've BEEN using AvLinux which is a Debian/MX mix of sorts but with
>> systemd, MX itself sounds like something that might replace it, they
>> 'provide' systemd but disabled. I'll keep Suse as the only with
>> systemd ..for now.
>
> I had Suse at my previous work, worked quite well and they had back then
> picked just to use systemd partially. It's not fully up to my standards
> for home use as the repositories do not supply everything I want to have.

Thanks for the heads-up, I'm already too many hours a week into
OS-fixing and am not prepared to increase that by one second. I liked
Gentoo but it was really just too much of time-sink for me. I'm 80 and
the only real use I have for computers is enjoyable or *at least*
productive guitar sessions. I had started with Suse right after it
forked off Slackware and it does have it's share of fubars but it's BEEN
my go2 OS, it's now downgraded to the only OS still with systemd in my
box. Just last night I tried my first install of their microOS to see if
Audacity would work on that (becasue they've got pulse/pipewire screwed
up on every other one of their platforms) but it failed to boot at all :-)

On 17/03/2024 12.35, bad sector wrote:

> Thanks for the heads-up, I'm already too many hours a week into
> OS-fixing and am not prepared to increase that by one second. I liked
> Gentoo but it was really just too much of time-sink for me.

Yes, that is the drawback with Gentoo, build times are time consuming
and then if something fails, the work to figure out why and fix it to
continue, at least your don't have that issue with Redcore.

> Just last night I tried my first install of their microOS to see if
> Audacity would work on that (becasue they've got pulse/pipewire screwed
> up on every other one of their platforms) but it failed to boot at all :-)

I switched to pipewire yesterday, the only drawback is that plasma don't
auto start it in the same ways as pulseaudio, but making your own script
for starting stuff and then add it to the plasma startup and it's fixed.

I did first install: pipewire pipewire-pulse pipewire-alsa pipewire-jack
wireplumber

sudo echo <<EOF > /usr/bin/start-pipewire
#!/bin/bash
/usr/bin/pipewire & /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse & /usr/bin/wireplumber
EOF
sudo chmod 755 /usr/bin/start-pipewire

then open System Settings and select System/Autostart and click on
+Add... and pick Add application and then add /usr/bin/start-pipewire

and that is, just logout and the in again, sound should autostart.

Just keep in mind to not have pulseaudio installed at the same time,
depending on the distribution, when installing pipewire-pulse should
remove the pulseaudio, but if it don't just remove it yourself.

--
//Aho

On 17/03/2024 15.53, J.O. Aho wrote:

> sudo echo <<EOF > /usr/bin/start-pipewire
> #!/bin/bash
> /usr/bin/pipewire & /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse & /usr/bin/wireplumber
> EOF
> sudo chmod 755 /usr/bin/start-pipewire

Sorry, made the neebie mistake, the sudo echo will not work as the
unprivileged user has no right to pipe to /usr/bin

sudo echo <<EOF > start-pipewire
#!/bin/bash
/usr/bin/pipewire & /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse & /usr/bin/wireplumber
EOF
sudo mv start-pipewire /usr/bin/start-pipewire
sudo chmod 755 /usr/bin/start-pipewire
sudo chown root:root /usr/bin/start-pipewire

will solve the problem.

--
//Aho

On 3/17/24 10:53, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 17/03/2024 12.35, bad sector wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the heads-up, I'm already too many hours a week into
>> OS-fixing and am not prepared to increase that by one second. I liked
>> Gentoo but it was really just too much of time-sink for me.
>
> Yes, that is the drawback with Gentoo, build times are time consuming
> and then if something fails, the work to figure out why and fix it to
> continue, at least your don't have that issue with Redcore.
>
>> Just last night I tried my first install of their microOS to see if
>> Audacity would work on that (becasue they've got pulse/pipewire
>> screwed up on every other one of their platforms) but it failed to
>> boot at all :-)
>
> I switched to pipewire yesterday, the only drawback is that plasma don't
> auto start it in the same ways as pulseaudio, but making your own script
> for starting stuff and then add it to the plasma startup and it's fixed.
>
> I did first install: pipewire pipewire-pulse pipewire-alsa pipewire-jack
> wireplumber
>
> sudo echo <<EOF > /usr/bin/start-pipewire
> #!/bin/bash
> /usr/bin/pipewire & /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse & /usr/bin/wireplumber
> EOF
> sudo chmod 755 /usr/bin/start-pipewire
>
> then open System Settings and select System/Autostart and click on
> +Add... and pick Add application and then add /usr/bin/start-pipewire
>
> and that is, just logout and the in again, sound should autostart.
>
> Just keep in mind to not have pulseaudio installed at the same time,
> depending on the distribution, when installing pipewire-pulse should
> remove the pulseaudio, but if it don't just remove it yourself.

there's an ongoing thread about this on the suse list, I'll drop a link
there

bad sector wrote:
> I've BEEN using AvLinux which is a Debian/MX mix of sorts but with
> systemd, MX itself sounds like something that might replace it, they
> 'provide' systemd but disabled. I'll keep Suse as the only with systemd
> ..for now.

I think that if I were 'mostly' anti-systemd, but 'open' (or at least
not 'close-minded') to the 'idea' and I were experiencing multiple
different distro/s, I would be using systemd on 'half' or some of them
for the experience of using some systemd 'features' to see if I were
really as strongly against it as I tho't I was.

It (there being quite a lot of 'it') has significant and worthwhile
value, whatever one might think about the philosophy of 'it' trying to
take over more than one or some like.

--
Mike Easter

On 3/17/24 14:15, Mike Easter wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>> I've BEEN using AvLinux which is a Debian/MX mix of sorts but with
>> systemd, MX itself sounds like something that might replace it, they
>> 'provide' systemd but disabled. I'll keep Suse as the only with
>> systemd ..for now.
>
> I think that if I were 'mostly' anti-systemd, but 'open' (or at least
> not 'close-minded') to the 'idea' and I were experiencing multiple
> different distro/s, I would be using systemd on 'half' or some of them
> for the experience of using some systemd 'features' to see if I were
> really as strongly against it as I tho't I was.
>
> It (there being quite a lot of 'it') has significant and worthwhile
> value, whatever one might think about the philosophy of 'it' trying to
> take over more than one or some like.

It ain't systemd VS all-others, it's more like all inits where systemd
is one of many. I might keep 2 suse, that's already double the just and
democratic allotment :-)

As for more than one 'mere utility' that seems to be jockeying to become
a kernel or an almost-OS, my attitude is rapidly hardening. The danger
as far as I'm concerned is that one of thsese becomes too big for its
hide and starts dictating kernel development which would mean the end of
freedom Linux.

bad sector wrote:
> It ain't systemd VS all-others, it's more like all inits where systemd
> is one of many. I might keep 2 suse, that's already double the just and
> democratic allotment :-)
>
> As for more than one 'mere utility' that seems to be jockeying to become
> a kernel or an almost-OS, my attitude is rapidly hardening. The danger
> as far as I'm concerned is that one of thsese becomes too big for its
> hide and starts dictating kernel development which would mean the end of
> freedom Linux.

In some imaginary scenario, there would be some 'optimal' balance
between the freedom to innovate another way of doing things and the
'negative' effects of a lot of fractured directions in which the
fracturing or innovations aren't resulting in a trend toward 'mostly'
good.

FreeBSD vs linux, systemd vs non-systemd vs systemd+shim, various DEs &
WMs awaiting the dev of a Rust Cosmic and so forth.

I'm not exactly saying there are too many DEs or that there shouldn't be
a systemd schism, just that it - the mulitiplicity - isn't ALL good;
there is good and bad to the divisions and fractures.

--
Mike Easter

On 3/17/24 17:27, Mike Easter wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>> It ain't systemd VS all-others, it's more like all inits where systemd
>> is one of many. I might keep 2 suse, that's already double the just
>> and democratic allotment :-)
>>
>> As for more than one 'mere utility' that seems to be jockeying to
>> become a kernel or an almost-OS, my attitude is rapidly hardening. The
>> danger as far as I'm concerned is that one of thsese becomes too big
>> for its hide and starts dictating kernel development which would mean
>> the end of freedom Linux.
>
> In some imaginary scenario, there would be some 'optimal' balance
> between the freedom to innovate another way of doing things and the
> 'negative' effects of a lot of fractured directions in which the
> fracturing or innovations aren't resulting in a trend toward 'mostly' good.
>
> FreeBSD vs linux, systemd vs non-systemd vs systemd+shim, various DEs &
> WMs awaiting the dev of a Rust Cosmic and so forth.
>
> I'm not exactly saying there are too many DEs or that there shouldn't be
> a systemd schism, just that it - the mulitiplicity - isn't ALL good;
> there is good and bad to the divisions and fractures.

That yes. The world of compuke is about where cars were at the turn of
the previous century; there were far to many models in the US alone,
most of them were either extremely expensive or useless or both, and if
you didn't know how to repair and change a tire, set points or
hand-crank then you were in deep shit. Eventually it got sorted out,
until China entered the fray, now Elon Musk the great prophet of free
enterprise and mindless competition wants them locked out :-))))

On 17/03/2024 21.22, bad sector wrote:

> As for more than one 'mere utility' that seems to be jockeying to become
> a kernel or an almost-OS, my attitude is rapidly hardening. The danger
> as far as I'm concerned is that one of thsese becomes too big for its
> hide and starts dictating kernel development which would mean the end of
> freedom Linux.

They did try with the namespace-controversy where they demanded the
Linux kernel developers to change the name iof a namespace for they had
picked to use the same spacename. I think much of the bad attitude came
from Lennart Poettering and lets hope there will be a "pipewire" for
systemd too.

For me it's been more of the security concern, they assume quite a lot
of things in the code without really knowing and the more code they have
in systemd the more risk for security issues and they already top
numbers of critical security issues compared with the other init systems
(I think it's quite same to say combined).

--
//Aho

On 3/18/24 03:18, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 17/03/2024 21.22, bad sector wrote:
>
>> As for more than one 'mere utility' that seems to be jockeying to
>> become a kernel or an almost-OS, my attitude is rapidly hardening. The
>> danger as far as I'm concerned is that one of thsese becomes too big
>> for its hide and starts dictating kernel development which would mean
>> the end of freedom Linux.
>
> They did try with the namespace-controversy where they demanded the
> Linux kernel developers to change the name iof a namespace for they had
> picked to use the same spacename. I think much of the bad attitude came
> from Lennart Poettering and lets hope there will be a "pipewire" for
> systemd too.
>
> For me it's been more of the security concern, they assume quite a lot
> of things in the code without really knowing and the more code they have
> in systemd the more risk for security issues and they already top
> numbers of critical security issues compared with the other init systems
> (I think it's quite same to say combined).

No doubt, I mean Linux always was about KISS if anything, systemd is
anything but that. X and Wayland are big too but they more or less have
to be, all others should be kept to the smallest possible footprint
each, beginning with the 'zilas which are also starting to bloat
dangerously (in 'reach'). I'm minded of the once much discussed IRA, not
that I had anythingto do with it, their 'distributed' security was a
hard nut to crack according to many :-)