On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 03:43:37 -0500, Paul wrote:

> The scales were all different. And the program didn't have a flat
> transform either. It had things like Mercator projections or the like,
> as a surface for tiling.

That's typical depending on the source of your data. In the US the State
plane Coordinate System is widely used, with each state having one or more
zones. Missouri has three, for example, covering Kansas City MO, Jefferson
City, and St. Louis. The idea is to minimize the distortion in each area.
It's the old problem of flattening an orange peel.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:07:17 +0100, Ammammata <ammammata@tiscali.it> wrote:

>Relf wrote on 15/11/2023 :
>> What are you doing that requires 64 GB of RAM ?
>
>I'd need so much RAM only in case I run 3-4-5 VM at once, but then the
>CPU would be the bottleneck

I sometimes run 20+ VMs at once, but only if nearly all of them are Linux-based.
I'm just pushing Ethernet packets around while doing some data transformations
(for proof of concept for my work), and the CPU isn't stressed by that.

On 11/20/2023 10:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I had a script to download the tesserae of an area of google maps, as individual photos of an area at the max resolution of the time, then join all the photos in order to create a huge photo.
>
> But then the photo could not be opened, gimp or whatever had out of memory problems.
>

I think Irfanview could open my .psb output. The Photoshop regular format
could not handle the picture dimensions, but the .psb format was OK with it,
and Irfanview could allow me to see what had basically happened to my map.

Some of the modern software developers, have switched to wasteful pixel representations.
Like, imagine using a float for R, a float for G, a float for B. You can easily
run out of RAM opening trivial images, when they do that. I don't know if Gimp has
done that or not.

Paul

On 2023-11-20 23:11, Paul wrote:
> On 11/20/2023 10:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> I had a script to download the tesserae of an area of google maps, as individual photos of an area at the max resolution of the time, then join all the photos in order to create a huge photo.
>>
>> But then the photo could not be opened, gimp or whatever had out of memory problems.
>>
>
> I think Irfanview could open my .psb output. The Photoshop regular format
> could not handle the picture dimensions, but the .psb format was OK with it,
> and Irfanview could allow me to see what had basically happened to my map.
>
> Some of the modern software developers, have switched to wasteful pixel representations.
> Like, imagine using a float for R, a float for G, a float for B. You can easily
> run out of RAM opening trivial images, when they do that. I don't know if Gimp has
> done that or not.

I suppose not, but this map had more pixels than me bytes. I think, it
was long ago.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-20 19:41, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 03:43:37 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> The scales were all different. And the program didn't have a flat
>> transform either. It had things like Mercator projections or the like,
>> as a surface for tiling.
>
> That's typical depending on the source of your data. In the US the State
> plane Coordinate System is widely used, with each state having one or more
> zones. Missouri has three, for example, covering Kansas City MO, Jefferson
> City, and St. Louis. The idea is to minimize the distortion in each area.
> It's the old problem of flattening an orange peel.

By the way, that's one proof that Earth is not flat ;-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-18 17:38, SBIANCO wrote:
> Il 16/11/2023 22:19, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
>
>>
>> There are more factors that have to concur.
>>
>
> For example?

Please quote more material next time, because I do not see what I was
replying to and now I have to search for it in order to reply your question.

[...]

Once I found it, lets paste it here:

>>> I'm asking:
>>> why my pc sometimes goes slow?
>>
>> Because you're opening an inordinate amount of tabs on four browsers for some ridiculous reason and expecting things to perform well.
>
> No, that on itself doesn't cause sluggishness. There are more factors that have to concur.

The tabs can be there, but the load they present varies. They can be
displaying sites that are very light or very heavy.

Then, there can be several sessions involved. You close one session,
then open the session again next day, and Firefox opens again all the
tabs that were opened the previous session, it remembers them. But the
thing is, only a single tab is actually running per window, the one has
the focus; the rest are blank, not loaded. Once you click on a tab, they
reload the old contents from disk (mostly), and then they consume CPU.
If you put the focus on another tab, the previous one continues using
resources. Each time you click on a tab, they run.

So if you had 5 windows, on session start you have 5 tabs running of the
hundreds tabs listed. If you click 20, you get 20 running; If you click
a hundreds, you have a hundred tabs running.

So the load will depend on how many tabs of the hundred listed you
actually click on.

You can see the load by point a tab to "about:performance".

You can reduce the load by telling firefox to quit, then starting it again.

(note: my expertise is on Linux, but I'm assuming Firefox in Windows
behaves similarly)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 01:42:47 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2023-11-20 19:41, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 03:43:37 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> The scales were all different. And the program didn't have a flat
>>> transform either. It had things like Mercator projections or the like,
>>> as a surface for tiling.
>>
>> That's typical depending on the source of your data. In the US the
>> State plane Coordinate System is widely used, with each state having
>> one or more zones. Missouri has three, for example, covering Kansas
>> City MO, Jefferson City, and St. Louis. The idea is to minimize the
>> distortion in each area. It's the old problem of flattening an orange
>> peel.
>
> By the way, that's one proof that Earth is not flat ;-)

Life would be a lot simpler if it were. The distance from A to B would be
a hypot() and not Vincenty's formula.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenty's_formulae

Even the haversine formula is a little chewy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haversine_formula

That's the thought behind the SPCS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Plane_Coordinate_System

For a limited zone you can use Cartesian coordinates and it's close enough
for government work.

If you're wondering how Google maps and so forth work the answer is Web
Mercator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Mercator_projection

The geodesy rabbit hole is very deep and convoluted.

On 11/20/2023 8:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-18 17:38, SBIANCO wrote:
>> Il 16/11/2023 22:19, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
>>
>>>
>>> There are more factors that have to concur.
>>>
>>
>> For example?
>
> Please quote more material next time, because I do not see what I was replying to and now I have to search for it in order to reply your question.
>
> [...]
>
> Once I found it, lets paste it here:
>
>>>> I'm asking:
>>>> why my pc sometimes goes slow?
>>>
>>> Because you're opening an inordinate amount of tabs on four browsers for some ridiculous reason and expecting things to perform well.
>>
>> No, that on itself doesn't cause sluggishness. There are more factors that have to concur.
>
> The tabs can be there, but the load they present varies. They can be displaying sites that are very light or very heavy.
>
> Then, there can be several sessions involved. You close one session, then open the session again next day, and Firefox opens again all the tabs that were opened the previous session, it remembers them. But the thing is, only a single tab is actually running per window, the one has the focus; the rest are blank, not loaded. Once you click on a tab, they reload the old contents from disk (mostly), and then they consume CPU. If you put the focus on another tab, the previous one continues using resources. Each time you click on a tab, they run.
>
> So if you had 5 windows, on session start you have 5 tabs running of the hundreds tabs listed. If you click 20, you get 20 running; If you click a hundreds, you have a hundred tabs running.
>
> So the load will depend on how many tabs of the hundred listed you actually click on.
>
> You can see the load by point a tab to "about:performance".
>
>
> You can reduce the load by telling firefox to quit, then starting it again.
>
>
> (note: my expertise is on Linux, but I'm assuming Firefox in Windows behaves similarly)

You can use Linux on Windows, and the browser depicted here, is my "number two" go-to
browser as a daily driver. They even include an icon to launch that puppy, in the
main Windows start menu. And you can do this, while running a virtual machine at
the same time.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/zG4bK9Qf/Firefox-WSLg-W11.gif

But for SBIANCO, that's just a novelty, since we don't know how far
that can be pushed on max_tabs and graphics. Apparently the graphics
are not being accelerated at the moment, through that path.

Paul

Il 20/11/2023 08:39, Paul ha scritto:

>
> The software simply isn't written correctly to perform well.
>
> Hardware cannot fix this. Hardware is defenseless against poorly written software.
>
> If the "process-per-tab" was designed properly, it might make some tabs
> work normally, while the "badly designed" web pages would be slug-slow.
> And that to me, is about the best you could expect.
>
> Paul
>
>

Thank You very very much

Il 21/11/2023 02:14, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:

>
> You can reduce the load by telling firefox to quit, then starting it again.

understood

On 2023-11-21 03:44, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 01:42:47 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2023-11-20 19:41, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 03:43:37 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> The scales were all different. And the program didn't have a flat
>>>> transform either. It had things like Mercator projections or the like,
>>>> as a surface for tiling.
>>>
>>> That's typical depending on the source of your data. In the US the
>>> State plane Coordinate System is widely used, with each state having
>>> one or more zones. Missouri has three, for example, covering Kansas
>>> City MO, Jefferson City, and St. Louis. The idea is to minimize the
>>> distortion in each area. It's the old problem of flattening an orange
>>> peel.
>>
>> By the way, that's one proof that Earth is not flat ;-)
>
> Life would be a lot simpler if it were. The distance from A to B would be
> a hypot() and not Vincenty's formula.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenty's_formulae
>
> Even the haversine formula is a little chewy.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haversine_formula
>
> That's the thought behind the SPCS
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Plane_Coordinate_System
>
> For a limited zone you can use Cartesian coordinates and it's close enough
> for government work.
>
> If you're wondering how Google maps and so forth work the answer is Web
> Mercator.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Mercator_projection
>
>
> The geodesy rabbit hole is very deep and convoluted.

There was a piece I read on some newspage commenting about the way land
is distributed in the USA being, as side effect, proof of the land not
being flat.

It is something strange to Europeans, but in the USA they divided the
land in rectangular lots. It is visible in streets and roads going
straight, following those straight lines forming the boundaries of the
land lots. Like a paper on notebook divided in faint squares with
vertical and horizontal lines.

But at some point, the rectangles suddenly do not fit, and they have to
fit one more rectangle, or one less, and the boundaries do a "correction":

+++++++
+
+++++++++++

to be able to fit them in the divisions of the land, all of the same
size. The Earth is not flat and you can not divide it in rectangles :-)

You can, of course use a projection like Mercator on a map, do the
divisions in rectangles there, and put them back on the land, where they
will not be actually straight lines but will follow a curve.

In Europe, roads and land lots are of irregular shapes.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:59:05 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It is something strange to Europeans, but in the USA they divided the
> land in rectangular lots. It is visible in streets and roads going
> straight, following those straight lines forming the boundaries of the
> land lots. Like a paper on notebook divided in faint squares with
> vertical and horizontal lines.
>
> But at some point, the rectangles suddenly do not fit, and they have to
> fit one more rectangle, or one less, and the boundaries do a
> "correction":
>
>
> +++++++
> + +++++++++++
>
> to be able to fit them in the divisions of the land, all of the same
> size. The Earth is not flat and you can not divide it in rectangles

There is a lot of history behind that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System

Around here if you pay attention in the forest there are trees with small
metal tags that mark the section corners. There are often other markers
pointing to the tree so it can be found. An interesting navigational
exercise is given one corner find another.

The road I live on has several right angle turns that probably go back to
a mismatch of sections.

The straight line grid phenomenon is mostly in the US Midwest where the
land is flat. In the mountains the topography overrules neatness. In town
there is also an anomaly that came about because of a pissing contest
between the original developers. One set of streets is at a 45 degree
angle to most of the rest of the city.

Even back east the Boston Common is actually a pentagon, leading to an
interesting street pattern.

Carlos E. R. wrote:

[snip]

>
> It is something strange to Europeans, but in the USA they divided the
> land in rectangular lots. It is visible in streets and roads going
> straight, following those straight lines forming the boundaries of the
> land lots. Like a paper on notebook divided in faint squares with
> vertical and horizontal lines.
>

Many European cities have their older roads on a grid layout - think
Madrid, Barcelona, or (at a pinch) the more modern Milton Keynes

--
Graham J

On 2023-11-21 20:01, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:59:05 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>
>> It is something strange to Europeans, but in the USA they divided the
>> land in rectangular lots. It is visible in streets and roads going
>> straight, following those straight lines forming the boundaries of the
>> land lots. Like a paper on notebook divided in faint squares with
>> vertical and horizontal lines.
>>
>> But at some point, the rectangles suddenly do not fit, and they have to
>> fit one more rectangle, or one less, and the boundaries do a
>> "correction":
>>
>>
>> +++++++
>> + +++++++++++
>>
>> to be able to fit them in the divisions of the land, all of the same
>> size. The Earth is not flat and you can not divide it in rectangles
>
> There is a lot of history behind that
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System
>
>
> Around here if you pay attention in the forest there are trees with small
> metal tags that mark the section corners. There are often other markers
> pointing to the tree so it can be found. An interesting navigational
> exercise is given one corner find another.

Wow :-)

>
> The road I live on has several right angle turns that probably go back to
> a mismatch of sections.
>
> The straight line grid phenomenon is mostly in the US Midwest where the
> land is flat. In the mountains the topography overrules neatness. In town
> there is also an anomaly that came about because of a pissing contest
> between the original developers. One set of streets is at a 45 degree
> angle to most of the rest of the city.

:-D

>
> Even back east the Boston Common is actually a pentagon, leading to an
> interesting street pattern.

Oh :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-21 21:47, Graham J wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>
>> It is something strange to Europeans, but in the USA they divided the
>> land in rectangular lots. It is visible in streets and roads going
>> straight, following those straight lines forming the boundaries of the
>> land lots. Like a paper on notebook divided in faint squares with
>> vertical and horizontal lines.
>>
>
> Many European cities have their older roads on a grid layout - think
> Madrid, Barcelona, or (at a pinch) the more modern Milton Keynes

Only some districts. And the next district follows a different layout.

For instance, I'm living this month on a district that is shaped as a
boomerang, with rounded edges, but inside the streets are in rectangular
shapes.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.