I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This has to do with the 8500. There's actually nothing wrong with the
system per se but we recently had a couple of power outages and it blew
my speakers (harman kardon hk695) and this is the second time it's
happened and I've had to replace them and the last set was brand new. I
live in a mobile home that isn't grounded and that's the main problem
but isn't there some of way of stopping this from happening again short
of re-wiring the entire home?

We recently had a fire that came through our area (the Fairview fire)
and I had to evacuate in like 30 minutes but took both computers, the
monitor and the external HD's and disks etc. I just returned yesterday
and thankfully all is OK. but I suffered collateral damage because the
utility company decided to cut the power twice in the middle of the fire
and 108 degree heat to do their maintenance and blew my speakers in the
process even though they weren't connected to a computer but they were
still plugged in to the surge protector and APC.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Robert

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/13/2022 4:33 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

> This has to do with the 8500. There's actually nothing wrong with the system per se but we recently had a couple of power outages and it blew my speakers (harman kardon hk695) and this is the second time it's happened and I've had to replace them and the last set was brand new. I live in a mobile home that isn't grounded and that's the main problem but isn't there some of way of stopping this from happening again short of re-wiring the entire home?
>
> We recently had a fire that came through our area (the Fairview fire) and I had to evacuate in like 30 minutes but took both computers, the monitor and the external HD's and disks etc. I just returned yesterday and thankfully all is OK. but I suffered collateral damage because the utility company decided to cut the power twice in the middle of the fire and 108 degree heat to do their maintenance and blew my speakers in the process even though they weren't connected to a computer but they were still plugged in to the surge protector and APC.
>
> Thoughts/Suggestions?
> Robert

The best AC protection, is the double conversion UPS. These are used by IT
people in server rooms. We had one with a several kilowatt rating, at
the place I used to work. This one has sine wave output, rather than the
stepped square wave of the APC. The shape of the power waveform, only matters
in certain circumstances (ATX supplies with active PFC perhaps).

https://www.amazon.ca/1000Va-Double-Conversion-System-Critical-Network/dp/B00180HW6G/

With prices around $1000, that's the reason I don't own one. The current state of
online sales catalogs, makes it hard to get complete listings of product lines
for comparison. I was lucky to find that traditional looking one. They can be
rack mount low-boy form factor, rather than a "tower" like an APC.

A double conversion has a cooling fan on the back. It makes the sine wave
and kicks off some heat while doing so. These can still be destroyed by a
direct lightning hit, but just about anything suffers that way.

AC ----- DC ----- AC
|
BATT

\-----------------/
Double conversion

If the input was 140VAC, the output would continue to be 115VAC.

Your wall clock, may or may not keep good time, if run off the AC output :-)

*******

The surge protector, on a three prong plug, has three paths. If you don't
have the third prong, and use an adapter so safety ground does not touch,
then only 1/3rd of the surge protector is working.

https://i0.wp.com/electronicsbeliever.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/pic-9-1.png?w=628

But in your failure case, I don't see a reason to believe that the other
protection modes would have helped at all. So this is just a comment,
on the difference of running with and without a ground. If any equipment
in the room happened to have an "incidental ground", that's when having
the surge protector work properly would matter.

For surge protectors with the $50,000 "warranty", of course your lack of
ground immediately invalidates that warranty. They always find
an excuse for not paying off, so this isn't really a surprise.

*******

Audio equipment does not use a SMPS (switch mode power supply) inside.

Instead, common practice, is to have a transformer,
rectifiers, and filter capacitor, producing a "raw" DC voltage.

The raw DC voltage, rises and falls as the AC power rises and falls.

If there's a giant transient on the AC, guess what happens ?
Kablooie.

The raw DC voltage inside the equipment, is consumed directly
by various subsystems. Your unit (hk695) has a self-test jack,
with a sine wave on it, and also has some sort of audio transform
for making 2.1 signal from 2-ch input or 4-ch input. A 2-ch
transform could be done with a crossover network and nothing
fancy. Converting from 4-ch input would be more difficult.

It may have more than just amp circuitry in it, and may have some
digital signal processing.

Any power transient which enters one of these "unprotected" audio products,
spells havoc in terms of damage. I lost my stereo to high AC voltage,
and it killed the mixer, the tuner, the vacuum fluorescent front display,
one... item... at... a... time. When I threw the stereo out, just the amp
still worked. The rest of it was dead. And all because the raw DC inside
the unit, was constantly... too high.

*******

This 2.1 system is USB powered. It can run off a USB3 connector, and
give around 2W per channel or less. However, if you plug in a 5V 2A wall
adapter to the unit, that's supposed to help on the output. Whether that
makes any difference, is hard to say. A 5V 2A wall adapter (if you used it)
would be a "regulated" power source. The "plus" version
is the version with the fake subwoofer (it does not go down to 20Hz!).
The USB3 connector (5V @ 900mA) is also a "regulated" power source.

https://www.newegg.com/black-creative-pebble-plus-wired/p/N82E16836116213

https://en.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-pebble-plus

Frequency Response 50–20,000 Hz
Power Output Not much

If your hearing needs the extra power of a monster set of speakers,
then I'd not buy that :-) That has about as much output power as
my home-made amp. Mine does not rattle the gypsum board exactly.

That is an example of an audio solution, where "raw" DC is not used.
There's at least one stage of regulation in the path at all times,
so there is at least some protection from transients. If the PC is
ruined, the speakers will be ruined, but not before. The speakers
could end up being as robust as the computer.

*******

This is basically too expensive to "fix" as such. Not on the AC side of it.

A Tesla PowerWall, is a double conversion. And more expensive than
the $1000 double conversion UPS. The PowerWall has a lot longer battery
backup time constant.

A motor-generator set, is another way to protect household items.
They might last around ten years, and need bearing oiling once a year.
Under no load, the motor still wastes a bit of power. Like the
double conversion UPS (which wastes power), they're in the same class.
The motor generator set might have slightly better lightning punch-thru
protection. I think these are cool (we had these in Power Systems lab).
But they're not really a home-compatible thing for most people.
The inertia in the rotating mass, helps ride through transients,
and these are used when changing from single phase to three phase
for a wood shop. You could get single-phase to single-phase, or you
could get single-phase to three-phase, as examples of types. The three
phase one would be so you could run a West Bend lathe.

Paul

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 13:33:18 -0700, Robert in CA wrote:
[snip]
>
> This has to do with the 8500. There's actually nothing wrong with the
> system per se but we recently had a couple of power outages and it blew
> my speakers (harman kardon hk695) and this is the second time it's
> happened and I've had to replace them and the last set was brand new. I
> live in a mobile home that isn't grounded and that's the main problem
> but isn't there some of way of stopping this from happening again short
> of re-wiring the entire home?
>

That makes me wonder. How did space shuttle/station do their electrical
grounding? Cause there's no actual ground there. Do they made the hull as
the ground? If so, is that even safe?

JJ,

> That makes me wonder. How did space shuttle/station do their
> electrical grounding? Cause there's no actual ground there.
> Do they made the hull as the ground? If so, is that even safe?

The whole idea behind "grounding" is to make the stuff a person can touch
directly is of the same potential as the person himself. No more, no less.
It doesn't matter if the floor he's walking on is at 50KV in regard to our
planet, as long as the voltage difference between himself and whatever he is
touching is near to zero.

So yes, using the hull (and all other metal connected to it, including the
floor(s) the astonauts are "walking on") as "the ground" is perfectly safe,
and functions the same way as it would on Earth.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

I kind of figured it would be something like that
and beyond my means.

I remember the time when the electrician wired my
place for 220 instead of 110 and fried allot of stuff.

I bought another set of (harman kardon hk695) speakers
(used) off of eBay and should arrive Monday. I'm hoping
that it's just the base module that's blown and I can still use
my satellites. That's what happened last time. In any event
I'll have the new satellites in case they don't.

Thanks,
Robert

On 9/14/2022 10:22 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I kind of figured it would be something like that
> and beyond my means.
>
> I remember the time when the electrician wired my
> place for 220 instead of 110 and fried allot of stuff.
>
> I bought another set of (harman kardon hk695) speakers
> (used) off of eBay and should arrive Monday. I'm hoping
> that it's just the base module that's blown and I can still use
> my satellites. That's what happened last time. In any event
> I'll have the new satellites in case they don't.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>

I wish they made UPS, small ones, just to solve this
problem, but I don't really know whether a Line Interactive
could stop damage like has happened. Double Conversion,
is the way to go when "it must be protected". That's
why server rooms have those.

You see, the Double Conversion ones are priced for business
usage. The makers don't see a consumer market for ultra-reliable
electricity.

But if anything is going to get blown by electrical work,
the poor design of stereos, is the first thing to go.

Paul

Exactly,, I'm lucky my stereo is OK,.. but it's partly my fault for
not un-plugging it before I left. I think the cheapest way is
just to stock up on speakers and base modules in case it
happens again. I already have two sets of new satellites speakers
from when it blew before. Kinda of like having spare power supplies
and HD's for the computer.

I wanted to ask you about my sisters computer although
I can't remember much. It's a Hewlett Packard with 3 GB AMD
HD I think running FF off of Vista OS and it's as slow as a dog
She also had an icon for Chrome but preferred not to use it.

She doesn't have any anti-virus/anti-malware protection at all!
She does have her firewall up and automatic updates running but
I checked and uploaded (10) updates. I also checked to see if she could
upgrade to Win 7 but apparently not?

I heard that Vista and Win2000 pretty much sucked. I could navigate
OK but it was slow to respond and also didn't have any sound because
the two sets of speakers had only a single input plug. What kind of
system uses speakers with only one input plug? Yet when I checked
it said it was running?

Would not having any anti-virus/anti-malare slow the computer
down significantly? or what else could be causing her computer
to run slow? Maybe malware or a virus she doesn't know about
because she has she has zero protection and therefore is unaware
they may be there?

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

On 9/15/2022 5:01 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> Exactly,, I'm lucky my stereo is OK,.. but it's partly my fault for
> not un-plugging it before I left. I think the cheapest way is
> just to stock up on speakers and base modules in case it
> happens again. I already have two sets of new satellites speakers
> from when it blew before. Kinda of like having spare power supplies
> and HD's for the computer.
>
> I wanted to ask you about my sisters computer although
> I can't remember much. It's a Hewlett Packard with 3 GB AMD
> HD I think running FF off of Vista OS and it's as slow as a dog
> She also had an icon for Chrome but preferred not to use it.
>
> She doesn't have any anti-virus/anti-malware protection at all!
> She does have her firewall up and automatic updates running but
> I checked and uploaded (10) updates. I also checked to see if she could
> upgrade to Win 7 but apparently not?
>
> I heard that Vista and Win2000 pretty much sucked. I could navigate
> OK but it was slow to respond and also didn't have any sound because
> the two sets of speakers had only a single input plug. What kind of
> system uses speakers with only one input plug? Yet when I checked
> it said it was running?
>
> Would not having any anti-virus/anti-malare slow the computer
> down significantly? or what else could be causing her computer
> to run slow? Maybe malware or a virus she doesn't know about
> because she has she has zero protection and therefore is unaware
> they may be there?
>
> Thoughts/suggestions?
> Robert
>

It's surprising to me, that Vista SP2 could even do a Windows Update.

My experience with Vista here, is Windows Update just spins and spins,
and produces no updates. This is due to scaling issues on *all* Windows OSes,
even on Windows 10. Microsoft chose to hide these issues on W7,W8,W10,W11,
by using "Jumbo Updates". one large file, instead of many smaller files.
This may reduce the rate of slowdown in the Updater.

So right away, your sister leads a charmed life :-)

Since it is Vista, the disk alignment is to 1048576 boundaries (1 megabyte),
and this is good for flash memory devices. This means you could buy
a small SATA SSD and install it in the PC in place of the Hard Drive.
And clone the old HDD drive, to the new SSD drive. The SSD has zero seek time.

The machine may be dog-slow, because the SMART is trying to tell you
that drive failure is imminent.

You could start with at least a single backup of the drive, for
safe keeping. This will reduce the impact, the day the PC won't
start at all because the HDD has stopped.

The machine could also be slow, because wususerv Service Host is
railed all the time. This is a side effect of Windows Update.

On the Pro OSes, you can do

tasklist /svc

and list the names of all SVCHOST processes and what services
live inside them (wuauserv). Sysinternals Process Explorer
may also be able to show this information, when run as Administrator.

It's unlikely Vista would receive much in the way of updates
today. But the update subsystem is still capable of wasting
computer resources. Oh, yes.

Summary:

1) Make your backup FIRST. If the recipient never makes backups,
this is a priority item. I smell trouble brewing.

2) Do cleanup, like check %temp% for files. Or check the browser cache
(search for "cache2") and see if that has a lot of files in it.
Some users may be using Piriform CCleaner, in which case
you can skip this step.

3) Next, try defragmentation. JkDefrag-3.36.zip

https://www.kessels.com/JkDefrag/

Start a command prompt window as administrator.

cd %userprofile%
cd Downloads
cd jkdefrag # Assumed location of unpacked goods.

jkdefrag -a 1 -d 2 c: # Draw blocks diagram of disk, showing fragmentation
# The file jkdefrag.log contains info on the volume, but
# you have to wait "until the file stops growing", before
# opening in Notepad. the more fragmented the drive, the longer
# it takes for the jkdefrag.log to stop growing.

jkdefrag -a 5 -d 2 c: # Push disk blocks down towards partition origin.
# This is a crude form of consolidation. Not absolutely necessary.

jkdefrag -a 2 -d 2 c: # This does basic defragmentation, and is not as neat and tidy
# as the WinXP build-in Presidents Software defragmenter.

Do not do this on a sick hard drive. Have a Backup in hand, if doing this.

4) Once neat and tidy, consider cloning over to an SSD.
5) If the disk fails during (3), you have your backup in hand.

6) If Vista needs to be reinstalled... this will be one bitch
of a project. It took me three tries to get this to work, and
about *one week* of work. The trick to getting it to work, is
using a wsusoffline stick from the last Vista version, as wsusoffline
knows more about updating, than Microsoft does.

7) Vista upgrades to W7, at the cost of a license. While you could
still buy them, I think my W7 was about $150 CDN or so. W7 can upgrade
to W10 for free (as long as the free offer continues, and it'll have to
stop when W10 hits end of life).

Personally, I think of Vista SP2 as "just fine", but, to make it
"just fine", you will have to be in top form, as a PC technician.
No mom and pop store is going to invest hours and hours of work,
doing this the right way. Shops like to "nuke and pave", and they
*might* even refuse to touch Vista SP2 at all. Because they know what
an evil festering mess awaits them. I like to think of this as
a "challenge", even if it takes a solid week of trying stuff.

Summary: At least check her drive with the SMART in HDTune.
It could be the reallocations are high, and the drive is
just about toast. And MAKE A BACKUP. You can currently pick
up a 1TB WDC Black for $60 or less, which may be big enough
for the 320GB drive she might have. Given the age of the machine,
I can't tell for sure it even has a SATA port. If you use a
Samsung 870 EVO 1TB, you can run one of those off a USB to SATA
cable -- even if the drive does not appear to have a place to
connect directly, the adapter cable can allow the same drive to be
connected to an exterior USB2 port.

Suited to low-power SSD drives - USB3 to SATA, about 250MB/sec on a good day $12
https://www.newegg.com/startech-usb3s2sat3cb-usb-to-sata/p/N82E16812400542

SAMSUNG 870 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND SSD MZ-77E1T0B/AM (about 600TBW) $100
https://www.newegg.com/samsung-1tb-870-evo-series/p/N82E16820147793?Item=N82E16820147793

Of course, one of your enclosures plus a drive, can easily be used
instead of those two items.

The following are excellent drives if you can find one. I bought three, one was bad,
and that was my first bad WDC... ever. But the ones that work, work fine. I
have at least four of these now. This would be, if you just wanted to clone
from one HDD to a second HDD. And this is SATA, so the machine needs SATA ports
inside to use this. You could make it work with an IDE cable, with an IDE to SATA
adapter, but those will be hard to find (a "good" one). You need different
adapters if you expect to plug two IDE to SATA adapters into one ribbon cable. The adapter
I've got, only works on the end connector of the ribbon (it's a Master adapter, not
an M/S jumpered one).

1TB internal HDD $50 Replacement SATA internal HDD
https://www.newegg.com/black-wd1003fzex-1tb/p/N82E16822236625

HTH,
Paul

Your correct about Windows Update. After I did the (10) updates
I checked again and it gave a message about it no longer being
available.

I went into Task Manager to see if I could see anything but
didn't think of HD-Tune or Defragging.

It all sounds good to me. I could do everything except the
backup for her since she doesn't have an external hd.
However, I'm no longer at my sisters but back home and were
separated by 450 miles . Unfortunately I know she wouldn't let
me do all the things you propose. She wouldn't let me install
malwarebytes while I was there and I know she wouldn't be into
buying a external hd. It's just how she is.

I was just wondering what you might think the cause
of it being so slow.

Many Thanks,
Robert

On 9/16/2022 3:12 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
>
> Your correct about Windows Update. After I did the (10) updates
> I checked again and it gave a message about it no longer being
> available.
>
> I went into Task Manager to see if I could see anything but
> didn't think of HD-Tune or Defragging.
>
> It all sounds good to me. I could do everything except the
> backup for her since she doesn't have an external hd.
>
> However, I'm no longer at my sisters but back home and were
> separated by 450 miles . Unfortunately I know she wouldn't let
> me do all the things you propose. She wouldn't let me install
> malwarebytes while I was there and I know she wouldn't be into
> buying a external hd. It's just how she is.
>
> I was just wondering what you might think the cause
> of it being so slow.
>
> Many Thanks,
> Robert

Well, it is Vista, and slogging like that is normal.

But you have to keep your eyes peeled for things
like hard drive trouble. Given the age of the machine,
things like that need scrutiny so they don't turn into
a disaster ("I lost all my emails when the HDD died").

Good luck on your next visit :-)

Paul

I'll refer her to this page when I visit next time so she
can read your suggestions and maybe she'll let
me do some of them.

I'll try defraggging it next time and see if that helps
and maybe disk cleaner using the default settings?

Thanks again for all your good help,

Robert

I checked and I don't seem to have a HD Tune
download although I have the application.

You know me and my history of downloads
so could you please give me a reliable download ?

Thanks,
Robert

I just emailed your recommendations to my sister
but need the HD-Tune download so she can use it
check the SMART.

Thanks,
Robert

On 9/16/2022 10:43 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I just emailed your recommendations to my sister
> but need the HD-Tune download so she can use it
> check the SMART.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>

http://www.hdtune.com/download.html

# Free version (has SMART table with Reallocated Raw data field for checking)

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

The other aspect of the checking, is to run the
benchmark curve, wait for it to finish, and check
for downward_wide spikes indicating all the
reallocate-able sectors are used up.

The OS can upset a benchmark run, by doing excessive reads
while you benchmark. Sometimes you have to wait a bit,
and run another benchmark.

The right-most tab can do a bad block scan. Which
helps identify severely sick hard drives. When the Reallocated
hits 300 or so, you just might uncover a red block in a bad
block scan.

I don't think my Dell Refurb had reallocated showing, but it did
have four bad blocks on it, presumably caused by the orientation
of the drive. I could tell from the failure pattern, the
sector was likely errored from a "high fly" error. The sector
next to it, had good CRC, but the info in the sector was stale.
Indicating the head was not close enough to finish the write.
I don't have too many other drives here, except that one,
as a demo vehicle for "bad blocks". I have around five drives
with 300 or so for the Reallocated Raw, and those are drives
I no longer trust. But they still pass a bad block scan, with
all green blocks.

Paul

Thanks, I appreciate it,.

Many thanks for all your good help,
Robert

Just thought you'd like to know I got the used speakers today
and hooked up the base module and the satellites lit up again
so I didn't have to replace them with the others. So all is good
and back to normal.

Also my sister is going to take your suggestions and/or upgrade
to a new computer. I recommended refurbished computers
where we bought the Dell 780.

Thanks again,
Robert