Given a call to Mountainview is never picked up by a human being...
<https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg> +1 (650) 253-0000

If you care about either Usenet or the DejaNews DejaGoogle search
engine (which provides links to specific Usenet posts), then...

*Please Do This!*
<https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
Which will look like this:
<https://i.postimg.cc/3JzWxG3f/please-do-this.jpg>

The DejaGoogle search engine is useful to everyone (not just us) because:
a. DejaGoogle doesn't require an account or paying for retention
b. DejaGoogle links work for everyone (even your 99 year old mother)
c. DejaGoogle only needs a web browser (which everyone has)

The problem with all this spam from Google servers is that even finding the
URI to an article posted _today_ is a mess of wading through that garbage.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yxpSLVrr/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>

Details follow...

That is the easiest way (I know of) to complain to Google about
their Google-Groups servers allowing Google Usenet portal spam
(which ruins their own Usenet DejaGoogle search engine output)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
You're welcome to upload this screenshot showing the problem:
<https://i.postimg.cc/fyCXPjpR/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>

Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.

*Please do this today:*
1. Go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
2. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that web page
3. Select the option to "Send feedback to Google"
Box 1: "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
Box 2: "A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback."

Optionally, you can do the deluxe version of sending feedback to Google.
A. In tab 1, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
B. Take a screenshot & save it to a date-related name you can easily find.
C. In tab 2, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
D. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that "about" web page
E. In the first box "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
tell Google the problem in a way that Google 'may' care about.

For example, tell them something like "Your Google Groups servers
are allowing obvious off-topic rampant spamming by few individuals
<https://groups.google.com>
such that your own Google Groups Server Search Engine
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
is now useless because a few users are abusing your Google servers."

F. In the second box upload that screenshot of the first tab.
G. Press the "Send" button on the bottom right of that second tab.

Here's what it looks like, with every step above documented below.
<https://i.postimg.cc/25gytfM9/googlebug1.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/sX0KBm6Z/googlebug2.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/mgt9kRxV/googlebug3.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Mp2wMbN4/googlebug4.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLVYdsW-2/googlebug5.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/4ysLRySW-/googlebug6.jpg>

In summary, I tried contacting Google to find a better way, to no avail.
<https://i.postimg.cc/kgFknPX0/google01.jpg>
So this online complaint form is the only one that I know about.
<https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>

If you know of a better way to complain about this, please let us know.
--
Together we can get Google to stop spamming their own Usenet search engine.

In article <ukqa3n$1g7rj$1@paganini.bofh.team>,
Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>Given a call to Mountainview is never picked up by a human being...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg> +1 (650) 253-0000
>
>If you care about either Usenet or the DejaNews DejaGoogle search
>engine (which provides links to specific Usenet posts), then...
>
> *Please Do This!*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> Which will look like this:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3JzWxG3f/please-do-this.jpg>
>
>The DejaGoogle search engine is useful to everyone (not just us) because:
>a. DejaGoogle doesn't require an account or paying for retention
>b. DejaGoogle links work for everyone (even your 99 year old mother)
>c. DejaGoogle only needs a web browser (which everyone has)
>
>The problem with all this spam from Google servers is that even finding the
>URI to an article posted _today_ is a mess of wading through that garbage.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/yxpSLVrr/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>
>
>Details follow...
>
>That is the easiest way (I know of) to complain to Google about
>their Google-Groups servers allowing Google Usenet portal spam
>(which ruins their own Usenet DejaGoogle search engine output)
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
>You're welcome to upload this screenshot showing the problem:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fyCXPjpR/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>
>
>Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.
>
> *Please do this today:*
> 1. Go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> 2. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that web page
> 3. Select the option to "Send feedback to Google"
> Box 1: "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
> Box 2: "A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback."
>
>Optionally, you can do the deluxe version of sending feedback to Google.
> A. In tab 1, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
> B. Take a screenshot & save it to a date-related name you can easily find.
> C. In tab 2, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> D. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that "about" web page
> E. In the first box "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
> tell Google the problem in a way that Google 'may' care about.
>
> For example, tell them something like "Your Google Groups servers
> are allowing obvious off-topic rampant spamming by few individuals
> <https://groups.google.com>
> such that your own Google Groups Server Search Engine
> <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
> is now useless because a few users are abusing your Google servers."
>
> F. In the second box upload that screenshot of the first tab.
> G. Press the "Send" button on the bottom right of that second tab.
>
>Here's what it looks like, with every step above documented below.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/25gytfM9/googlebug1.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/sX0KBm6Z/googlebug2.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/mgt9kRxV/googlebug3.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Mp2wMbN4/googlebug4.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/CLVYdsW-2/googlebug5.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4ysLRySW-/googlebug6.jpg>
>
>In summary, I tried contacting Google to find a better way, to no avail.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/kgFknPX0/google01.jpg>
>So this online complaint form is the only one that I know about.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
>
>If you know of a better way to complain about this, please let us know.

Better yet , Depeer Google Groups!

>--
>Together we can get Google to stop spamming their own Usenet search engine.
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

On 2023-12-06 09:13, Wally J wrote:
> Given a call to Mountainview is never picked up by a human being...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg> +1 (650) 253-0000

I'm sorry, Arlen...

....just what do you think a picture of a smartphone dialing screen proves...

....other that the fact that for all your protestations, it turns out you
actually use an iPhone?

Using <news:ukqefp$sbs1$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

> ...just what do you think a picture of a smartphone dialing screen proves...

What were your results when you called Google to help complain?

> ...other that the fact that for all your protestations, it turns out you
> actually use an iPhone?

The image status bar & aspect ratio seems to not be that of an iphone.
But of an iPad.

Using <news:ukqeea$1mnv$2@gallifrey.nk.ca>, The Doctor wrote:

>>If you know of a better way to complain about this, please let us know.
>
> Better yet , Depeer Google Groups!

Agree that it's highwinds who needs to depeer its google feed.
What's the easiest way to complain directly to highwinds so they get it?

On 2023-12-06 12:21, david wrote:
> Using <news:ukqefp$sbs1$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>> ...just what do you think a picture of a smartphone dialing screen
>> proves...
>
> What were your results when you called Google to help complain?
>
>> ...other that the fact that for all your protestations, it turns out
>> you actually use an iPhone?
>
> The image status bar & aspect ratio seems to not be that of an iphone.
> But of an iPad.

Hardly relevant.

The POINT was an iOS device.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 13:13:27 -0400, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>Given a call to Mountainview is never picked up by a human being...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg> +1 (650) 253-0000
>If you care about either Usenet or the DejaNews DejaGoogle search
>engine (which provides links to specific Usenet posts), then...
> *Please Do This!*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> Which will look like this:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3JzWxG3f/please-do-this.jpg>
>The DejaGoogle search engine is useful to everyone (not just us) because:
>a. DejaGoogle doesn't require an account or paying for retention
>b. DejaGoogle links work for everyone (even your 99 year old mother)
>c. DejaGoogle only needs a web browser (which everyone has)
>The problem with all this spam from Google servers is that even finding the
>URI to an article posted _today_ is a mess of wading through that garbage.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/yxpSLVrr/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>
>Details follow...
>That is the easiest way (I know of) to complain to Google about
>their Google-Groups servers allowing Google Usenet portal spam
>(which ruins their own Usenet DejaGoogle search engine output)
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
>You're welcome to upload this screenshot showing the problem:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fyCXPjpR/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>
>Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.
> *Please do this today:*
> 1. Go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> 2. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that web page
> 3. Select the option to "Send feedback to Google"
> Box 1: "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
> Box 2: "A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback."
>Optionally, you can do the deluxe version of sending feedback to Google.
> A. In tab 1, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
> B. Take a screenshot & save it to a date-related name you can easily find.
> C. In tab 2, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
> D. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that "about" web page
> E. In the first box "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
> tell Google the problem in a way that Google 'may' care about.
> For example, tell them something like "Your Google Groups servers
> are allowing obvious off-topic rampant spamming by few individuals
> <https://groups.google.com>
> such that your own Google Groups Server Search Engine
> <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
> is now useless because a few users are abusing your Google servers."
> F. In the second box upload that screenshot of the first tab.
> G. Press the "Send" button on the bottom right of that second tab.
>Here's what it looks like, with every step above documented below.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/25gytfM9/googlebug1.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/sX0KBm6Z/googlebug2.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/mgt9kRxV/googlebug3.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Mp2wMbN4/googlebug4.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/CLVYdsW-2/googlebug5.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4ysLRySW-/googlebug6.jpg>
>In summary, I tried contacting Google to find a better way, to no avail.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/kgFknPX0/google01.jpg>
>So this online complaint form is the only one that I know about.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
>If you know of a better way to complain about this, please let us know.

midnight seance, ouija board, full moon, psychic medium, hold hands

Which News server are you using?

I'm using news.individual.net and I don't see anything from Google
Groups here.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote

> I'm using news.individual.net and I don't see anything from Google
> Groups here.

Even so, you still have the problem described in the original post.

On 06.12.23 18:13, Wally J wrote:
> Given a call to Mountainview is never picked up by a human being...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg> +1 (650) 253-0000
>
> If you care about either Usenet or the DejaNews DejaGoogle search
> engine (which provides links to specific Usenet posts), then...

You are a brain dead idiot.
The smart girls and guys do not use Google in the first place. They use
a decent nntp-server with login and filtering. That would be a place
where they kick you out inevitably after a week max.

And it is none of your business anyway.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 07.12.23 01:05, Brian Gregory wrote:
> Which News server are you using?
>
> I'm using news.individual.net and I don't see anything from Google
> Groups here.
>
+1

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 07.12.23 01:42, Wally J wrote:
> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote
>
>> I'm using news.individual.net and I don't see anything from Google
>> Groups here.
>
> Even so, you still have the problem described in the original post.

Bullshit.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 06.12.23 21:21, david wrote:
> Using <news:ukqefp$sbs1$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>> ...just what do you think a picture of a smartphone dialing screen proves...
>
> What were your results when you called Google to help complain?

A waste of time and none of your or anybody else's business in this group.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote

>> Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.
>
> In the past, Google's response to getting many spam complaints for a group
> has been to block the group from being *read* on Google Groups.
> This would mean we will all lose access to DejaGoogle search in this group.

Thanks for that input, because you seem to a rare respondent who understood
the problem set, as most self-centered people think it's only about them.

Just filtering out the spam only helps one person; what I'm seeking (as
always) is a general-purpose solution that improves life for everyone.

That's why I posted this thread - to find people who cared about others.
(Where it's clear that most of the respondents only care about themselves.)

If Google wipes out the dejanews/dejagoogle search engine, that's bad.
Everyone loses if the dejanews/dejagoogle searcb engine is wiped out.

There is great utility in the dejanews archives found nowhere else.
a. Dejagoogle allows easy cites to individual threads & articles
b. Dejagoogle allows anyone to see those cites (no newsreader needed)
c. Dejagoogle allows searches without news server retention, etc.

What you understood is _everyone_ is affected when dejagoogle is.

It would mean that every discussion on this group would be unsearchable.
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

Except by HowardKnight (or narkives) neither of which has the same utility.
<http://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
<http://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
<http://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com>

Note: I realize people who only post for their amusement won't have a need
for a general purpose search engine that the whole world can easily use.

> A couple of examples where this has already happened:
>
> * mozilla.support.seamonkey <https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey>
> * misc.test <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.test>
>
> �����~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Banned content warning
> mozilla.support.seamonkey has been identified as containing spam,
> malware, or other malicious content.
> For more information about content policies on Google Groups see our
> Help Center article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
> [ Back to safety ]
> �����~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for that example, although when Google took over DejaNews' search
engine, Google was never faithful to any product which competed with it.

An example is that the Windows XP newsgroup was already archived
<http://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general>
But, Google refused to add the newer windows versions after that
<http://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narkive.com>
<http://alt.windows7.general.narkive.com>
<http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>
<http://alt.comp.os.windows-11.narkive.com>
Although, to Google's credit, there is one overarching Windows archive
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
But, it's full of Google spam too (plus nobody usually posts to it).

I'm still shocked that Google Groups' Usenet portal allows all this obvious
spam, but if they're going to wipe out the dejanews/dejagoogle search
engine, even the self-centered people who will never understand this
problem set (which is 9,999 out of 1,000) will be adversely affected.
--
On Usenet we can discuss problems with people who have more information.

J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote

>> What were your results when you called Google to help complain?
>
> A waste of time and none of your or anybody else's business in this group.

If you've never run a search before posting, then it won't affect you.

But it's everyone's business if they care about the utility of
search-before-posting and if they care to begin their next question at the
stage that others already fleshed it out so as to not repeat mistakes.

*Anyone can filter out spam*

Anyone can easily filter out all spam emanating from Google Groups'
accounts, but that spam isn't the problem that we're trying to solve.

*We're trying to save DejaNews/DejaGoogle web-searchable archives*

For those who care about the population at large, losing the utility
of the DejaNews archives is a big deal as it easily can affect everyone.

Yes. Everyone.
Well, anyone who is thoughtful enough to run a search before posting.

But - unfortunately - losing DejaNews also affects those _outside_ Usenet.

Because it only takes a web browser to run a search on anything.
<http://groups.google.com/g/<putnameofusenetgrouphere>

This helps everyone both inside the Usenet community & outside it.
a. Searchers don't need servers & readers; they only need a web browser
b. Recipients don't either; they click on a link to an article or thread
c. Retention is almost "permanent" (with regard to Dejanews' originals)

Therefore, this spam, if it kills DejaNews, affects everyone if not solved.
The only to solve the Dejanews issue is to get Google to stop the spam.

I saw Ralph Fox' post saying that the way Google solves that is to wipe out
the utility of the DejaNews search engine - so I hope that doesn't happen.
--
There are two kinds of people who post to Usenet, one of which is a class
of self-centered people who post only for their amusement - but the other
is a class of people who are kind hearted and helpful by their very nature.

On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 11:38:58 -0400, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
snip
>I'm still shocked that Google Groups' Usenet portal allows all this obvious
>spam, but if they're going to wipe out the dejanews/dejagoogle search
>engine, even the self-centered people who will never understand this
>problem set (which is 9,999 out of 1,000) will be adversely affected.

almost 10 out of every 1 will be . . . none of this makes any sense

In news.admin.net-abuse.usenet Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> If you know of a better way to complain about this, please let us know.

For projects such as Android that fall under Google Developers, maybe there is:
the Google Bughunters tracking system.

On Google Groups, there's a "public-ntp-discuss" group. It was created for
public discussion and support of the Google Public NTP Project under Google
Developers.

Recently, their group was overrun by spam in the same way as these Usenet
groups, and the group got replaced by a banned content warning. I reported this
as a security vulnerability (vulnerable to DOS attack) at bughunters.google.com
on Monday. I asked that it be brought specifically to the attention of the
Google Public NTP Project. Three days later their group is back online and the
spam is gone.

So it's not unthinkable that a bug report about comp.mobile.android being
vulnerable to DOS attack might also get some traction, if specifically reported
to the attention of the Android project under Google Developers, and if the
Android project team is invested at all in comp.mobile.android.

Cheers! Edward

In article <uksoui$1oqca$1@paganini.bofh.team>,
Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote
>
>>> Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.
>>
>> In the past, Google's response to getting many spam complaints for a group
>> has been to block the group from being *read* on Google Groups.
>> This would mean we will all lose access to DejaGoogle search in this group.
>
>Thanks for that input, because you seem to a rare respondent who understood
>the problem set, as most self-centered people think it's only about them.
>
>Just filtering out the spam only helps one person; what I'm seeking (as
>always) is a general-purpose solution that improves life for everyone.
>
>That's why I posted this thread - to find people who cared about others.
>(Where it's clear that most of the respondents only care about themselves.)
>
>If Google wipes out the dejanews/dejagoogle search engine, that's bad.
>Everyone loses if the dejanews/dejagoogle searcb engine is wiped out.
>
>There is great utility in the dejanews archives found nowhere else.
>a. Dejagoogle allows easy cites to individual threads & articles
>b. Dejagoogle allows anyone to see those cites (no newsreader needed)
>c. Dejagoogle allows searches without news server retention, etc.
>
>What you understood is _everyone_ is affected when dejagoogle is.
>
>It would mean that every discussion on this group would be unsearchable.
> <http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
> <http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
> <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
>
>Except by HowardKnight (or narkives) neither of which has the same utility.
> <http://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
> <http://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
> <http://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com>
>
>Note: I realize people who only post for their amusement won't have a need
>for a general purpose search engine that the whole world can easily use.
>
>> A couple of examples where this has already happened:
>>
>> * mozilla.support.seamonkey
><https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey>
>> * misc.test <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.test>
>>
>> �����~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Banned content warning
>> mozilla.support.seamonkey has been identified as containing spam,
>> malware, or other malicious content.
>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups see our
>> Help Center article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>> [ Back to safety ]
>> �����~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>Thanks for that example, although when Google took over DejaNews' search
>engine, Google was never faithful to any product which competed with it.
>
>An example is that the Windows XP newsgroup was already archived
> <http://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general>
>But, Google refused to add the newer windows versions after that
> <http://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narkive.com>
> <http://alt.windows7.general.narkive.com>
> <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>
> <http://alt.comp.os.windows-11.narkive.com>
>Although, to Google's credit, there is one overarching Windows archive
> <http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
>But, it's full of Google spam too (plus nobody usually posts to it).
>
>I'm still shocked that Google Groups' Usenet portal allows all this obvious
>spam, but if they're going to wipe out the dejanews/dejagoogle search
>engine, even the self-centered people who will never understand this
>problem set (which is 9,999 out of 1,000) will be adversely affected.

Google Groups has now made the Dejanews Archive worth less than 1 cent US.

>--
>On Usenet we can discuss problems with people who have more information.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote

> Google Groups has now made the Dejanews Archive worth less than 1 cent US.

To that point, it's not yet impossible to find something in Dejanews
web-searchable archives, but, with the spam-to-post ratio being 100:1,
it's certainly a _lot_ harder than it should be to use the search
productively.

Of course, a lot of people never search before posting, so, those are the
people who have already written saying there's no problem for them.

The problem, as you seem to understand, is for everyone who runs a search.

Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>That's why I posted this thread - to find people who cared about others.
>(Where it's clear that most of the respondents only care about themselves.)
>
>If Google wipes out the dejanews/dejagoogle search engine, that's bad.
>Everyone loses if the dejanews/dejagoogle searcb engine is wiped out.

They broke the indices years ago and old posts can no longer be found. They
are in there, but you can't get to them except by message-id.

>There is great utility in the dejanews archives found nowhere else.
>a. Dejagoogle allows easy cites to individual threads & articles
>b. Dejagoogle allows anyone to see those cites (no newsreader needed)
>c. Dejagoogle allows searches without news server retention, etc.

Yes, but it's broken. If it actually worked properly, the way it did
originally, it would be a huge benefit to Usenet as a whole. But mostly
it's not useful anymore.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote

>>If Google wipes out the dejanews/dejagoogle search engine, that's bad.
>>Everyone loses if the dejanews/dejagoogle searcb engine is wiped out.
>
> They broke the indices years ago and old posts can no longer be found. They
> are in there, but you can't get to them except by message-id.

Ruefully, I must agree that I can't find even my own articles sometimes,
when I know the keywords used, where, interestingly, sometimes my articles
are in the top of a "normal" Google search but not found in dejagoogle.

There was a WIRED article from a while back which said as much, that the
search engine isn't anywhere near the quality of the main Google Search.

Worse, Google removed the headers (which is probably good for privacy), so
the message-ID is only useful at Howard Knight (as far as I'm still aware).

In summary, it sucks - but it's still better than nothing, especially when
we want to search a newsgroup to see if the topic has been covered already.

An example is searching the alt.usage.english newsgroup before asking about
a word or searching the Android newsgroup before asking about ACR apps.
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english>

Then the post we make _after_ that search won't start from the beginning.
It will start where the ball hit the ground & then we can push it forward.
--
(We need a name for what Google Groups' search engine is, as we're looking
at it from the Usenet perspective and not from the Google Groups angle.)

Followups trimmed to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet

In news.admin.net-abuse.usenet The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
<snip>
> Google Groups has now made the Dejanews Archive worth less
> than 1 cent US.

There is this, they are trying to create a useful archive
of usenet:

https://yarchive.net/

--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 00:13:19 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <uksoui$1oqca$1@paganini.bofh.team>,
>Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
snip
>>I'm still shocked that Google Groups' Usenet portal allows all this obvious
>>spam, but if they're going to wipe out the dejanews/dejagoogle search
>>engine, even the self-centered people who will never understand this
>>problem set (which is 9,999 out of 1,000) will be adversely affected.
>
>Google Groups has now made the Dejanews Archive worth less than 1 cent US.
__________________
/ \
| |
| Deja-News D.M. |
| Diis Manibus |
| 12 February 2001 |
| R.I.P. |
| |
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

http://www.dejanews.com/help/help_index.shtml
>General Information
>*Deja News Homepage
> Learn the ins and outs of the Deja News Homepage.
>*New Users
> The ideal starting place if this is your first time to Deja News.
>*Contacting Us
> How to get help via email if you can't find an answer to your question!
>Frequently Asked Questions
>*Deja News FAQ
> A general Frequently Asked Questions about Deja News specific issues.
>*Usenet FAQ
> Got a question about Usenet in general? Get the FAQs!!
>*Posting FAQ
> All the FAQs about posting to Deja News.
>And More...
>*Bookmark Us
> How to add Deja News to your hotlist or bookmark file.
>*Link to Deja News
> Link to Deja News from your Web site!
>*Deja News Glossary
> Find out more about the terminology most commonly used on the Deja News
> site.
[end quote]

http://dejanews.com/help/faq.shtml
>Searching
> How do I search for something?
> Deja News is very easy to use (and it's free, of course), so all you have
> to do is go to our Quick Search or Power Search page, enter some keywords
> and have fun! Please be sure to read our help documents for more advanced
> search features.
>What's the difference between Quick Search and Power Search?
> Our Quick Search page will perform a search on our current database
> (which is usually the last several weeks of newsgroup articles) matching,
> if possible, ALL of your keywords. On our Power Search page, you can
> customize your search with a variety of sorting options, view older Usenet
> articles, select a set of articles before searching on keywords, and much
> more!
[end quote]

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

> Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>That's why I posted this thread - to find people who cared about others.
>>(Where it's clear that most of the respondents only care about themselves.)
>>
>>If Google wipes out the dejanews/dejagoogle search engine, that's bad.
>>Everyone loses if the dejanews/dejagoogle searcb engine is wiped out.
>
> They broke the indices years ago and old posts can no longer be found. They
> are in there, but you can't get to them except by message-id.

That's already something of value, but I don't even know how to do that
anymore. I used to. By seeing how the interface changes from time to
time, I gave up on Google Groups even as an archive. I still think we
need a all-time USENET serious archive. I would like to locate any
message by message-id, no matter in which group it was posted. Is that
a dream?

On 12/8/23 21:47, Julieta Shem wrote:
> That's already something of value, but I don't even know how to do that
> anymore. I used to. By seeing how the interface changes from time to
> time, I gave up on Google Groups even as an archive. I still think we
> need a all-time USENET serious archive. I would like to locate any
> message by message-id, no matter in which group it was posted. Is that
> a dream?

I think that finding a collection of all the messages is going to be the
biggest hurtle.

I had a collection going back to late 2018 and it was 27 million
articles. Had because I've since removed articles from Google Groups.

So if it's 27 million articles ~5 years, I don't want to fathom what it
would be going back to the '80s.

I strongly suspect much of that data is gone.

--
Grant. . . .