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computers / comp.misc / Simplicity And Computing

SubjectAuthor
* Simplicity And ComputingBen Collver
+* Re: Simplicity And ComputingLawrence D'Oliveiro
|`* Re: Simplicity And ComputingScott Dorsey
| `- Re: Simplicity And ComputingLawrence D'Oliveiro
`* Re: Simplicity And ComputingD
 `* Re: Simplicity And ComputingBen Collver
  +- Re: Simplicity And Computingcandycanearter07
  `- Re: Simplicity And ComputingD

1
Simplicity And Computing

<slrnv2e0cf.m05.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>

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From: bencollver@tilde.pink (Ben Collver)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Simplicity And Computing
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 00:39:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Ben Collver - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 00:39 UTC

SIMPLICITY AND COMPUTING
========================
by Curt Sampson, 1999

This is an e-mail response I wrote to a mailing list recently, when a
discussion of how computers will have to change in the future came
up. It was intended to be a short response with a couple of my
thoughts, but somehow turned into this article.

On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Blaine Cook wrote:

> One of the points that Dr. Raduchel stressed was that computers
> must become as intuitive as telephones or televisions for them to
> become commodity devices, and truly become an everyday part of
> people's lives....

I've thought about this for a bit, and I've come to the conclusion
that this has already happened.

I came to this conclusion while talking to a non-computer person who
had seen the first couple of episodes of a series on the history of
microcomputers on Knowledge Network (the one by Robert Cringley, of
PBS fame). She was rather shocked at the rate of change in the
microcomputer industry compared to other industries, and that's when
I realised that most people haven't really seen the revolution that
PLCs and embedded microprocessors have made in the consumer world.
Cars, televisions and VCRs these days have some fairly sophicsticated
software inside them, but people just don't notice this.

Why is this? Perhaps it's because they're `merely' doing a better job
at solving an existing problem that is, from the user interface
perspective, fairly simple. After all, from the average driver's
point of view, braking and accelerating a car are not a big problem;
you push on one pedal or another, and the car slows down or speeds
up. The calculation of exactly how much force one should apply to
each wheel in order to maintain maximum traction is not a simple
problem, but it's not the user's problem. Of course, this also takes
a lot of control out of the hands of the user; the problem is not
going to be solved in as optimial a way as it would be if an expert
user could modify what the computer was doing based on current
conditions.

On the other hand, many people are not solving simple problems with
computers. Sure, typing an essay seems like a simple problem at
first, and it is if you do it on a typewriter. But are we really
dealing with the same problem when we type it on a computer? Or do we
now insist on the kind of typogaphical sophistication that once was
available only to professional typesetters, page layout and graphics
sophistication once used only by professional graphic artists and
designers, spelling and grammar checking once available only from
professional editors, and documentation markup sophistication once
only the realm of SGML professionals?

A problem I've noticed many times before came to light yet again when
I was preparing the overheads for a presentation I did recently. For
various reasons (including my complete inability to figure out how to
get a Windows 95 system to print a raw postscript file), I decided to
do this in Microsoft Word. This turned out to be quite a bad
experience, and only survivable because I was once an expert on MS
Word 5.0 for DOS (to the tune of some ten thousand pages of contracts
with very specific formatting requirements). After some mucking about
I finally did get my stuff into Word and get it formatted, but two
things really annoyed me:

* I wanted to start with my content, but had to pay attention to
formatting from the very beginning.
* MS Word's style sheet system, which is actually quite nice, between
the DOS and Windows versions of Word somehow got buried beneath
layers of other stuff.

I think that these two points demonstrate the two branches of the
complexity problem we're dealing with.

I recently saw a lecture at Simon Fraser University by MIT professor
Nancy Leveson. She reminded me that Fred Brooks (famed author of _The
Mythical Man-Month_), in his essay _No Silver Bullet_, identifies two
types of complexity we deal with in the software industry: essential
and accidental. Essential complexity is that that is part of the
problem itself. You can't get rid of it and still solve the problem;
it must be dealt with. Accidental complexity is additional complexity
that has been introduced into the problem, usually as part of the
process of solving it. (In computing, this would be having to write
something in assembler rather than a high-level language, for
example.) Accidental complexity can be reduced without affecting the
solution of the problem itself.

Fred Brooks applies this to software development, but I think this
applies equally to my experience with MS word. In point one above, I
had my mind full of the content of my overhead slides, not the
presentation. I knew that a particular sentence I was typing would be
a header, or a bullet point, or a code example, but I didn't care
what it looked like at the time, so long as I could read it.
Unfortunately, it wasn't as easy as it could have been to tag things
as different types of text, the formatting of which I would deal with
later. Due to the graphical environment I often had to care very much
what it looked like, becuase otherwise it wasn't readable on the
screen. This is where I found the old text-based word processing much
better; if something was in three-point compressed italic type, I
didn't have to worry about it right then, because I didn't see it. I
could deal with the formatting later, when I didn't have content to
worry about. Having to deal with formatting right off introduced
accidential complexity into my writing process, thus interfering with
it.

In the second case, we have a problem I've seen for a long time, but
forsee no resolution for: hiding the essential complexity of a task
in order to make it `simpler.' Current versions of MS word provide
far too many mechanisms that go mucking about with your document, and
encourage you to do things without understanding them. Some of the
things (such as that damn paperclip) can be removed by a relative
expert if he knows what he's doing. Others are just features built in
that have to be dealt with. A lot of it is embedded into the
`attitude' of the program itself, such as the fact that it's much
easier to edit and apply formatting to individual elements than it is
to styles.

For me this was just an annoyince; distractions I had to ignore or
push aside in order to deal with my formatting issues. For others,
those who do not understand how word processing is different from
typing, the core of how the program works is hidden from them, rather
than being exposed. Anybody who's worked in a typing pool for any
length of time has seen some poor WP operator inserting hard page
breaks to make sure that paragraphs are not broken across pages,
rather than marking the paragraph style as non-breakable. And usually
he or she has no idea why this is the wrong solution to the problem.

This is, in my opinion, the great failure of word processing: huge
amounts of effort have been expended to make using a word processor
look like using a typewriter, a piece of paper, or whatever, when
it's just not the same thing. It hides the essential complexity of
the task, the things you need to know to deal well with words in
computer memory, and ends up confusing people more when they see
what, for them, is non-intuitive behaviour.

And this failure extends to almost every area of microcomputer use,
as far as I can tell. I spent an hour the other day sorting out a web
page designer who didn't understand why changes did or didn't appear
on her `web page.' She didn't know that she was actually working with
four separate copies of it (one on her local hard disk, one on the
server's hard disk, and one from each of those sources in the
computer's RAM memory). Once I explained to her how here data were
being moved about and copied, she was able to control this bit of her
universe. But until then, the complexity of computers that most
software designers try so desperately to hide was making her life
unhappy.

So no, I don't think that making current PCs and their applications
`simpler' or `more intuitive' is going to get anywhere. People who
don't understand data movement and copying simply aren't going to be
able to find their data. Word processing is really useful only when
you don't use it like a typewriter. And you can't work a spreadsheet
on the front panel of a microwave oven.

What we need to do is to quit piling up layers of accidential
complexity over the essential complexity of our computer-based
applications in a hopeless attempt to make things less complex. We
need to expose the complexity that needs to be there and make it as
accessable as possible, so that people can deal with it, rather than
avoiding it.

From: <https://web.archive.org/web/19991001100548/
http://www.cynic.net/~cjs/computer/writings/simplicity.html>

Re: Simplicity And Computing

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From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Simplicity And Computing
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 03:09:05 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Lawrence D'Oliv - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 03:09 UTC

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 00:39:27 -0000 (UTC), Ben Collver wrote:

> ... Current versions of MS word ...

I’m not sure what you can conclude about the general state of computing
just from looking at one crummy proprietary app, and an old version of it
at that.

Re: Simplicity And Computing

<1128de8b-dcfb-a684-f0c5-00ad61dc26c7@example.net>

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Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Simplicity And Computing
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 12:07:01 +0200
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <1128de8b-dcfb-a684-f0c5-00ad61dc26c7@example.net>
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In-Reply-To: <slrnv2e0cf.m05.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
 by: D - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 10:07 UTC

Thank you Ben, very interesting. What was the mailinglist? Is it worth
subscribing to?

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024, Ben Collver wrote:

> SIMPLICITY AND COMPUTING
> ========================
> by Curt Sampson, 1999
>
> This is an e-mail response I wrote to a mailing list recently, when a
> discussion of how computers will have to change in the future came
> up. It was intended to be a short response with a couple of my
> thoughts, but somehow turned into this article.
>
> On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Blaine Cook wrote:
>
>> One of the points that Dr. Raduchel stressed was that computers
>> must become as intuitive as telephones or televisions for them to
>> become commodity devices, and truly become an everyday part of
>> people's lives....
>
> I've thought about this for a bit, and I've come to the conclusion
> that this has already happened.
>
> I came to this conclusion while talking to a non-computer person who
> had seen the first couple of episodes of a series on the history of
> microcomputers on Knowledge Network (the one by Robert Cringley, of
> PBS fame). She was rather shocked at the rate of change in the
> microcomputer industry compared to other industries, and that's when
> I realised that most people haven't really seen the revolution that
> PLCs and embedded microprocessors have made in the consumer world.
> Cars, televisions and VCRs these days have some fairly sophicsticated
> software inside them, but people just don't notice this.
>
> Why is this? Perhaps it's because they're `merely' doing a better job
> at solving an existing problem that is, from the user interface
> perspective, fairly simple. After all, from the average driver's
> point of view, braking and accelerating a car are not a big problem;
> you push on one pedal or another, and the car slows down or speeds
> up. The calculation of exactly how much force one should apply to
> each wheel in order to maintain maximum traction is not a simple
> problem, but it's not the user's problem. Of course, this also takes
> a lot of control out of the hands of the user; the problem is not
> going to be solved in as optimial a way as it would be if an expert
> user could modify what the computer was doing based on current
> conditions.
>
> On the other hand, many people are not solving simple problems with
> computers. Sure, typing an essay seems like a simple problem at
> first, and it is if you do it on a typewriter. But are we really
> dealing with the same problem when we type it on a computer? Or do we
> now insist on the kind of typogaphical sophistication that once was
> available only to professional typesetters, page layout and graphics
> sophistication once used only by professional graphic artists and
> designers, spelling and grammar checking once available only from
> professional editors, and documentation markup sophistication once
> only the realm of SGML professionals?
>
> A problem I've noticed many times before came to light yet again when
> I was preparing the overheads for a presentation I did recently. For
> various reasons (including my complete inability to figure out how to
> get a Windows 95 system to print a raw postscript file), I decided to
> do this in Microsoft Word. This turned out to be quite a bad
> experience, and only survivable because I was once an expert on MS
> Word 5.0 for DOS (to the tune of some ten thousand pages of contracts
> with very specific formatting requirements). After some mucking about
> I finally did get my stuff into Word and get it formatted, but two
> things really annoyed me:
>
> * I wanted to start with my content, but had to pay attention to
> formatting from the very beginning.
> * MS Word's style sheet system, which is actually quite nice, between
> the DOS and Windows versions of Word somehow got buried beneath
> layers of other stuff.
>
> I think that these two points demonstrate the two branches of the
> complexity problem we're dealing with.
>
> I recently saw a lecture at Simon Fraser University by MIT professor
> Nancy Leveson. She reminded me that Fred Brooks (famed author of _The
> Mythical Man-Month_), in his essay _No Silver Bullet_, identifies two
> types of complexity we deal with in the software industry: essential
> and accidental. Essential complexity is that that is part of the
> problem itself. You can't get rid of it and still solve the problem;
> it must be dealt with. Accidental complexity is additional complexity
> that has been introduced into the problem, usually as part of the
> process of solving it. (In computing, this would be having to write
> something in assembler rather than a high-level language, for
> example.) Accidental complexity can be reduced without affecting the
> solution of the problem itself.
>
> Fred Brooks applies this to software development, but I think this
> applies equally to my experience with MS word. In point one above, I
> had my mind full of the content of my overhead slides, not the
> presentation. I knew that a particular sentence I was typing would be
> a header, or a bullet point, or a code example, but I didn't care
> what it looked like at the time, so long as I could read it.
> Unfortunately, it wasn't as easy as it could have been to tag things
> as different types of text, the formatting of which I would deal with
> later. Due to the graphical environment I often had to care very much
> what it looked like, becuase otherwise it wasn't readable on the
> screen. This is where I found the old text-based word processing much
> better; if something was in three-point compressed italic type, I
> didn't have to worry about it right then, because I didn't see it. I
> could deal with the formatting later, when I didn't have content to
> worry about. Having to deal with formatting right off introduced
> accidential complexity into my writing process, thus interfering with
> it.
>
> In the second case, we have a problem I've seen for a long time, but
> forsee no resolution for: hiding the essential complexity of a task
> in order to make it `simpler.' Current versions of MS word provide
> far too many mechanisms that go mucking about with your document, and
> encourage you to do things without understanding them. Some of the
> things (such as that damn paperclip) can be removed by a relative
> expert if he knows what he's doing. Others are just features built in
> that have to be dealt with. A lot of it is embedded into the
> `attitude' of the program itself, such as the fact that it's much
> easier to edit and apply formatting to individual elements than it is
> to styles.
>
> For me this was just an annoyince; distractions I had to ignore or
> push aside in order to deal with my formatting issues. For others,
> those who do not understand how word processing is different from
> typing, the core of how the program works is hidden from them, rather
> than being exposed. Anybody who's worked in a typing pool for any
> length of time has seen some poor WP operator inserting hard page
> breaks to make sure that paragraphs are not broken across pages,
> rather than marking the paragraph style as non-breakable. And usually
> he or she has no idea why this is the wrong solution to the problem.
>
> This is, in my opinion, the great failure of word processing: huge
> amounts of effort have been expended to make using a word processor
> look like using a typewriter, a piece of paper, or whatever, when
> it's just not the same thing. It hides the essential complexity of
> the task, the things you need to know to deal well with words in
> computer memory, and ends up confusing people more when they see
> what, for them, is non-intuitive behaviour.
>
> And this failure extends to almost every area of microcomputer use,
> as far as I can tell. I spent an hour the other day sorting out a web
> page designer who didn't understand why changes did or didn't appear
> on her `web page.' She didn't know that she was actually working with
> four separate copies of it (one on her local hard disk, one on the
> server's hard disk, and one from each of those sources in the
> computer's RAM memory). Once I explained to her how here data were
> being moved about and copied, she was able to control this bit of her
> universe. But until then, the complexity of computers that most
> software designers try so desperately to hide was making her life
> unhappy.
>
> So no, I don't think that making current PCs and their applications
> `simpler' or `more intuitive' is going to get anywhere. People who
> don't understand data movement and copying simply aren't going to be
> able to find their data. Word processing is really useful only when
> you don't use it like a typewriter. And you can't work a spreadsheet
> on the front panel of a microwave oven.
>
> What we need to do is to quit piling up layers of accidential
> complexity over the essential complexity of our computer-based
> applications in a hopeless attempt to make things less complex. We
> need to expose the complexity that needs to be there and make it as
> accessable as possible, so that people can deal with it, rather than
> avoiding it.
>
> From: <https://web.archive.org/web/19991001100548/
> http://www.cynic.net/~cjs/computer/writings/simplicity.html>
>


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Simplicity And Computing

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From: bencollver@tilde.pink (Ben Collver)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Simplicity And Computing
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 14:34:53 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ben Collver - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 14:34 UTC

On 2024-04-23, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> Thank you Ben, very interesting. What was the mailinglist? Is it worth
> subscribing to?

Glad you liked it. :-)

This didn't come from a mailing list. It came from my collection of
saved computing articles. I think i first ran across it from a link
in the TCL wiki. I can no longer find the original reference, but
here's a tasty snack: https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/simple

Re: Simplicity And Computing

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 by: candycanearter07 - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 15:00 UTC

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote at 14:34 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On 2024-04-23, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> Thank you Ben, very interesting. What was the mailinglist? Is it worth
>> subscribing to?
>
> Glad you liked it. :-)
>
> This didn't come from a mailing list. It came from my collection of
> saved computing articles. I think i first ran across it from a link
> in the TCL wiki. I can no longer find the original reference, but
> here's a tasty snack: https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/simple

Thanks for the reads!
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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 by: D - Tue, 23 Apr 2024 19:21 UTC

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024, Ben Collver wrote:

> On 2024-04-23, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> Thank you Ben, very interesting. What was the mailinglist? Is it worth
>> subscribing to?
>
> Glad you liked it. :-)
>
> This didn't come from a mailing list. It came from my collection of
> saved computing articles. I think i first ran across it from a link
> in the TCL wiki. I can no longer find the original reference, but
> here's a tasty snack: https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/simple
>

Ah got it. Thank you very much!

Re: Simplicity And Computing

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From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Simplicity And Computing
Date: 24 Apr 2024 00:37:54 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 00:37 UTC

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 00:39:27 -0000 (UTC), Ben Collver wrote:
>
>> ... Current versions of MS word ...
>
>I’m not sure what you can conclude about the general state of computing
>just from looking at one crummy proprietary app, and an old version of it
>at that.

Unfortunately when most people think about computing, they think about
crummy proprietary apps. So for most of the world, this IS the general
state of computing.

We once gave a tour of our supercomputing cluster to some of the organization
IT managers, and someone honestly asked if we ran Excel on it. This is
honestly how IT people think computers are used.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Simplicity And Computing

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Subject: Re: Simplicity And Computing
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 01:09:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Lawrence D'Oliv - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 01:09 UTC

On 24 Apr 2024 00:37:54 -0000, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> We once gave a tour of our supercomputing cluster to some of the
> organization IT managers, and someone honestly asked if we ran Excel on
> it. This is honestly how IT people think computers are used.

You’d think scientists, in particular, would know better. A few years
ago, geneticists undertook to rename a bunch of genes, because--wait
for it--Excel was misinterpreting the existing names as dates.
Geneticists using Excel to analyze their data?? But there you go.

Here
<https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008984>
is a report on how the situation has improved since then.

Spoiler: it hasn’t.

I absolutely love the recommendations that they make. The first one is
a biggie:

Scripted analyses are preferred over spreadsheets. Gene name to
date conversion is a bug specific to spreadsheets and doesn’t
occur in scripted computer languages like Python or R. In
addition, analyses conducted with Python and R notebooks (eg:
Jupyter or Rmarkdown) capture computational methods and results in
a stepwise fashion meaning these workflows can be more readily
audited. These notebooks can therefore achieve a higher level of
computational reproducibility than spreadsheets. Although this
requires a big investment in learning a computer language, this
investment pays off in the longer term.

Note that bit: “capture computational methods and results in a
stepwise fashion meaning these workflows can be more readily audited”.
Here I thought reproducibility was an absolutely non-negotiable
foundation stone of scientific research, yet it seems people have been
publishing results with nothing to back up their analyses other than
an Excel spreadsheet.

1
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