Good day folks.
Granted this is only semi Acorn/RISC OS networking related, but I'm
looking for some advice I can trust, and as I've been hanging around here
for around 25+ years, I can't think of a better place. :-)

Connected to the WW system by BT and FTTC and ISP by Orpheus Internet,
which obviously connects to our number of RISC OS computers on the LAN.

The only thing remaining to sort out is the Phone.

I'm looking for a suitable ATA to connect to the Router and wondered if
anyone here might have a suitable product in mind or even in use?

Looking online, there's a number of 'em about, but which one...?

Thanks
Dave

Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> The only thing remaining to sort out is the Phone.
>
> I'm looking for a suitable ATA to connect to the Router and wondered if
> anyone here might have a suitable product in mind or even in use?
>
> Looking online, there's a number of 'em about, but which one...?

What kind of phone do you want to connect?
Which service are you connecting to?

For wired phones I have a Sipura/Linksys/Cisco PAP2T which can provide two
separate phone lines/numbers via two analogue phone ports. I used this for
several years and it worked fine. As it happens I don't need it so it's for
sale for 25 pounds + postage, including the RJ11 to BT socket adapters.
(email address above works)

I think the web interface might work with a RISC OS browser, if you're
interested I can check. Some of the settings can be done by dialling
numbers on a phone handset.

For DECT cordless I use a Gigaset N300A-IP base station and Gigaset C430H
handsets. This is a direct DECT to IP converter, ie there's no analogue
signal path, although it can also plug into an analogue socket as well and
you can set a 'dialplan' to route calls a particular way (eg to the cheapest
for a particular number). The 'A' suffix means it has an answering machine
and works nicely with the Gigaset handsets. It can support up to 6
lines/numbers (and calls can be concurrent).

I use both with Andrews and Arnold. I also used to use the PAP2T with
Sipgate.

Theo

In article <5vf*pCKnz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > The only thing remaining to sort out is the Phone.
> >
> > I'm looking for a suitable ATA to connect to the Router and wondered if
> > anyone here might have a suitable product in mind or even in use?
> >
> > Looking online, there's a number of 'em about, but which one...?

> What kind of phone do you want to connect?
> Which service are you connecting to?

> For wired phones I have a Sipura/Linksys/Cisco PAP2T which can provide
> two separate phone lines/numbers via two analogue phone ports. I used
> this for several years and it worked fine. As it happens I don't need
> it so it's for sale for 25 pounds + postage, including the RJ11 to BT
> socket adapters. (email address above works)

> I think the web interface might work with a RISC OS browser, if you're
> interested I can check. Some of the settings can be done by dialling
> numbers on a phone handset.

> For DECT cordless I use a Gigaset N300A-IP base station and Gigaset
> C430H handsets. This is a direct DECT to IP converter, ie there's no
> analogue signal path, although it can also plug into an analogue socket
> as well and you can set a 'dialplan' to route calls a particular way (eg
> to the cheapest for a particular number). The 'A' suffix means it has
> an answering machine and works nicely with the Gigaset handsets. It can
> support up to 6 lines/numbers (and calls can be concurrent).

> I use both with Andrews and Arnold. I also used to use the PAP2T with
> Sipgate.

> Theo

Thanks Theo...
I think my brain just had a short circuit... ;-)

I know very little about using the/a network to connect with a phone.

I just assumed... Connect an ATA to the Router, plug in the phone, a bit
of configuration then it'd carry on as before.

Bog standard BT phone, account and line, and I'm thinking of something
simple like 'Grandstream HT801".

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> Thanks Theo...
> I think my brain just had a short circuit... ;-)
>
> I know very little about using the/a network to connect with a phone.
>
> I just assumed... Connect an ATA to the Router, plug in the phone, a bit
> of configuration then it'd carry on as before.
>
> Bog standard BT phone, account and line, and I'm thinking of something
> simple like 'Grandstream HT801".

If BT is providing the phone and broadband service, it's locked down so
it'll only work with the phone port on their router (or via DECT cordless, if
the router has DECT). You don't need a separate ATA, but on the other hand
you can't change the router if you want to use the phone.

If the line has no broadband on it at all, I think BT will enable broadband
and send you a router and it then proceeds as above.

If BT is providing the phone and somebody else (eg Orpheus) providing the
broadband, then it depends whether BT will tell you the login credentials to
enter into an ATA. From what I've heard they may send out an ATA
preconfigured for your account, but you aren't allowed to find out the
credentials to use a different one.

So it's only if they will tell you the credentials for your own ATA does it
make sense to buy your own.

Theo

* Somebody did find a way to hack the system to use their own router, but I
wouldn't recommend it for brains in danger of short circuits :-)
https://forum.openwrt.org/t/bt-digital-voice-and-3rd-party-routers/142125

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> If BT is providing the phone and broadband service, it's locked down so
> it'll only work with the phone port on their router (or via DECT cordless, if
> the router has DECT). You don't need a separate ATA, but on the other hand
> you can't change the router if you want to use the phone.
>
> If the line has no broadband on it at all, I think BT will enable broadband
> and send you a router and it then proceeds as above.
>
> If BT is providing the phone and somebody else (eg Orpheus) providing the
> broadband, then it depends whether BT will tell you the login credentials to
> enter into an ATA. From what I've heard they may send out an ATA
> preconfigured for your account, but you aren't allowed to find out the
> credentials to use a different one.

I forgot to mention a fourth case, where Orpheus provide both phone and
internet. I can't see any mention on their site about phones.

What has been reported to be happening with other ISPs (eg IDnet) is that
they just subcontract the phone service to BT, and then all the above
restrictions apply. At Zen they previously let you find out the SIP
credentials so you could use an ATA, but now they don't so you have to use
their router.

It is possible Orpheus have their own SIP VOIP platform and will tell you
the credentials, in which case you can use your own ATA. If you pay Orpheus
for your phone service I would start by asking them what the situation is.

Theo

In article <7vf*OFMnz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > If BT is providing the phone and broadband service, it's locked down
> > so it'll only work with the phone port on their router (or via DECT
> > cordless, if the router has DECT). You don't need a separate ATA, but
> > on the other hand you can't change the router if you want to use the
> > phone.
> >
> > If the line has no broadband on it at all, I think BT will enable
> > broadband and send you a router and it then proceeds as above.
> >
> > If BT is providing the phone and somebody else (eg Orpheus) providing
> > the broadband, then it depends whether BT will tell you the login
> > credentials to enter into an ATA. From what I've heard they may send
> > out an ATA preconfigured for your account, but you aren't allowed to
> > find out the credentials to use a different one.

> I forgot to mention a fourth case, where Orpheus provide both phone and
> internet. I can't see any mention on their site about phones.

> What has been reported to be happening with other ISPs (eg IDnet) is
> that they just subcontract the phone service to BT, and then all the
> above restrictions apply. At Zen they previously let you find out the
> SIP credentials so you could use an ATA, but now they don't so you have
> to use their router.

> It is possible Orpheus have their own SIP VOIP platform and will tell
> you the credentials, in which case you can use your own ATA. If you pay
> Orpheus for your phone service I would start by asking them what the
> situation is.

> Theo

The only things BT supply at the moment are the FTTC and the old Copper
wire from the cabinet pole to the house, plus the phone account.

Orpheus supplies the Broadband and domain hosting.

Mnnn!
So it's not as simple as the BT support person I spoke to on the phone a
few days ago, suggested.

Thanks for the info and advice Theo, appreciated.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

In article <5ad3aaa352dave@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Thanks for the info and advice Theo, appreciated.

> Dave

Made an executive decision a few moments ago. Ooer!

Having done more research online, the BT telephone change thing is an
awful mess...

I shall cease and desist... I'm going to forget about until it happens,
then they, BT can do the work.

Dave

Nb: Thanks again Theo.

--

Dave Triffid

Hi,

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 07:12:04 +0100
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <7vf*OFMnz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > > If BT is providing the phone and broadband service, it's locked
> > > down so it'll only work with the phone port on their router (or
> > > via DECT cordless, if the router has DECT). You don't need a
> > > separate ATA, but on the other hand you can't change the router
> > > if you want to use the phone.
> > >
> > > If the line has no broadband on it at all, I think BT will enable
> > > broadband and send you a router and it then proceeds as above.
> > >
> > > If BT is providing the phone and somebody else (eg Orpheus)
> > > providing the broadband, then it depends whether BT will tell you
> > > the login credentials to enter into an ATA. From what I've heard
> > > they may send out an ATA preconfigured for your account, but you
> > > aren't allowed to find out the credentials to use a different
> > > one.
>
> > I forgot to mention a fourth case, where Orpheus provide both phone
> > and internet. I can't see any mention on their site about phones.
>
> > What has been reported to be happening with other ISPs (eg IDnet) is
> > that they just subcontract the phone service to BT, and then all the
> > above restrictions apply. At Zen they previously let you find out
> > the SIP credentials so you could use an ATA, but now they don't so
> > you have to use their router.
>
> > It is possible Orpheus have their own SIP VOIP platform and will
> > tell you the credentials, in which case you can use your own ATA.
> > If you pay Orpheus for your phone service I would start by asking
> > them what the situation is.
>
> > Theo
>
> The only things BT supply at the moment are the FTTC and the old
> Copper wire from the cabinet pole to the house, plus the phone
> account.
>
> Orpheus supplies the Broadband and domain hosting.
>
> Mnnn!
> So it's not as simple as the BT support person I spoke to on the
> phone a few days ago, suggested.
>
> Thanks for the info and advice Theo, appreciated.

I have a Gigaset N300A.

I'm only VOIP now but before my move a couple of years ago I had an
analogue BT fixed line as well.

(A nearby lighting strike took out my previous S685IP, router and
more!)

Very easy to configure/set up, more so without VOIP, but gives the
option to add VOIP at any time.

I'd recommend, at least take a look at N300A

Andy

--
When the moment comes, take the one from the right.

Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> Made an executive decision a few moments ago. Ooer!
>
> Having done more research online, the BT telephone change thing is an
> awful mess...
>
> I shall cease and desist... I'm going to forget about until it happens,
> then they, BT can do the work.

That's what I would do.

The main thing here is a switch from landline phone 'line rental' being the
bedrock of your connection with broadband being run over the top, to
broadband being the bedrock with phone being a service run over the top,
like email is today.

This change is relatively inconsequential for most people who take phone and
broadband from the same company (the company can easily do the switch), but
it's more complicated for those who take them from different - they can't
swap one kind of bedrock for another as they're different companies.

You may find that having two companies in this way doesn't make sense in the
future, but it will depend on the products BT offer to customers once
they're no longer in the business of selling copper line access for voice
calls.

Having done this a few years ago my line is now broadband only, and I run a
third party VOIP service over the top - a bit like paying a hosting company
for my email rather than getting it from my ISP. This turns out way cheaper
than traditional line rental (I'm paying 1.44 pounds per month at A&A, plus
calls).

I'm sure Orpheus will be on the case in due course, but when it does I'd look
into switching your phone service to them, as it will keep things
simple and avoid having to deal with two companies. Alternatively you can
switch your number to a third party if somebody has a deal which is better,
and only in that case do you need an ATA.

Some further reading about the latter option, written by somebody in the
uk.d-i-y newsgroup:
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Telephones,_analogue_to_digital_conversion

Theo

In message <5vf*fSNnz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
>> Made an executive decision a few moments ago. Ooer!
>>
>> Having done more research online, the BT telephone change thing is an
>> awful mess...
>>
>> I shall cease and desist... I'm going to forget about until it happens,
>> then they, BT can do the work.

> That's what I would do.

> The main thing here is a switch from landline phone 'line rental' being the
> bedrock of your connection with broadband being run over the top, to
> broadband being the bedrock with phone being a service run over the top,
> like email is today.

> This change is relatively inconsequential for most people who take phone and
> broadband from the same company (the company can easily do the switch), but
> it's more complicated for those who take them from different - they can't
> swap one kind of bedrock for another as they're different companies.

Well the wait until period may be a lot closer for those who move home,
want to move provider in some cases or require a new phone line as from
5th September you will not be able to order a traditional phone line based
WLR service from 5th September on the Openreach network.

What with the phased roll out for BT, soon to be EE, customers of BT
Digital voice on a area by area wide basis I can see a interesting few
months coming up.

--
Experience the future using ARM Technology - ARMBook,BeagleBoard -xM,
PandaBoard,Raspberry Pi,iMX6/ARMX6,IGEPv5 & Titanium powered by RISC OS
5.28.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 08:35:18 +0100
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <5ad3aaa352dave@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Made an executive decision a few moments ago. Ooer!
>
> Having done more research online, the BT telephone change thing is an
> awful mess...
>
> I shall cease and desist... I'm going to forget about until it
> happens, then they, BT can do the work.
>

You may be able to get an idea of the switchover date for your area
here :-

https://www.farrpoint.com/connectivity-changes-map/

Ian