VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote

> No impetus for me to bother visiting alt.comp.microsoft.windows. I'll
> get my Usenet sustenance elsewhere.

Based on the perjorative way that sentence "appears" to have been meant, I
want everyone to know I said nobody uses it from teh start.

What I was stating was only that it has existed (for a very long time - see
below how long) and that it's the "canonical" Windows Usenet newsgroup.

Note: I mean canonical only in the meaning of "all Windows" versions.

> I doubt Wally's claim there has always been this newsgroup.
> Are there any posts there over 2-1/2 years old?

Given Vanguard's slightly perjorative comments above (which missed the
entire point I was making), those above shouldn't have been made (in my
humblest of opinions) without Vanguard having spent a second to check his
own facts before simply guessing that mine were wrong.

No harm. Just advice.

I'm never afraid to be corrected, nor to admit I'm wrong as I strive to
always be right - so when I'm wrong - it's bad. I hate being wrong.

That's why I'm almost never wrong (and there's even a thread on that in the
Apple newsgroups where the iKooks can never admit when they're wrong - and
yet - I've openly posted to that badgolferman thread for years on end
whenever I'm found to be wrong. Did I mention I hate being wrong yet?

You can always correct me.
But you should also do your homework first.

At least correct it the way Andy did (with facts), which I'm fine with.

Let me state that I fully and openly and publicly agree with Vanguard that
I wasn't precise when I said the canonical Windows group went back
"forever" so I apologize for that egregious mistake in terms of length.

The alt.comp.microsoft.windows does go back "about 20 years" it seems.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZY6Tg2hB/dejagoogle01.jpg>

It could be longer. It could be shorter. All I know is what I see.

See that screenshot where this is the oldest I could find (by painfully
repetitive carpel-tunnel backscrolling on the dejagoogle web archives)
*mmc.exe users and computers dont start and is consuming a lot CPU time*
By Jerry, 3/24/03
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/05dJ84A5clc>

So I agree with Andy Burns that it might not exist on every news server, as
I didn't bother to check since it exists on the newsservers I read from.

And I also thank Vanguard for correcting me as it has only existed (as far
as we know) for about twenty years - so he is correct and I apologize.

However, depending on how things are said on Usenet, they're usually
colloquially spoken (and not a legal document), where I readily and openly
admit I never researched how long _any_ Windows newsgroup has been around.

Luckily a mistake in casual speech is easily corrected by the experts (Andy
& Vanguard) both of whom I acknowledge know far more than I do about this.

Hence I retract the statement that it "always was there" and the dejagoogle
archives could be wrong for all I know, so please allow me to do the work
to support Vanguard's correction by checking in another archive out there.

Unfortunately, as most of you know, Google never was good about permanently
dejagoogle autoarchiving the Windows newsgroups so let's check the narkive.

Andy and I both know Davide keeps a log of the oldest posts on the front
page, but it may not be correct - but let's check to see what it says.

<https://alt.comp.microsoft.windows.narkive.com/>
(1471 Threads, 4590 Posts,Ranked #1165,First post 20 years ago)

Hmmmmm.... so it (apparently) been there for two decades? I don't really
know if that's correct, so let me doublecheck against other similar ngs.

First, let's try the Windows-95 newsgroup which should be pretty old...
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-95.narkive.com/>
(36 Threads, 48 Posts, Ranked #1723, First post 19 years ago)

Now let's try the Windows 2000 newsgroup, which also should be old.
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-2000.narkive.com/>
(440 Threads, 911 Posts, Ranked #1723, First post 20 years ago)

That's "about right" I would think, but let's check some more because I
don't have a consistent candle that I can check the luminosity against.

<https://microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.narkive.com/>
(298025 Threads, 1360040 Posts, Ranked #397, First post 21 years ago)

<https://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narkive.com/>
(2345 Threads, 31224 Posts, Ranked #1165, First post 11 years ago)

<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/>
(16972 Threads, 177294 Posts, Ranked #1723, First post 9 years ago)

These next two groups, which exist on some of my newsservers, failed:

<https://alt.comp.os.windows-vista.narkive.com/>
(does not exist on the narkive)

<https://alt.comp.os.windows-11.narkive.com/>
(does not exist on the narkive)

In summary, I apologize for my imprecise speech since I strive to always be
correct in what I claim, and I accept that the canonical Windows newsgroup
might not be available on every news server out there.

That canonical Windows newsgroup does not go back "forever". I was wrong.
It goes back, as far as I can tell, about two decades though.

My point being only:
1. Nobody uses it (and Andy & Vanguard showed it's not widely peered)
2. But... it would be a "canonical" newsgroup to use for _all_ versions.

That was my only point.
I made it to add value.
--
Sometimes, given Usenet is casual, we have to look back to correct thinkos.

Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> The alt.comp.microsoft.windows does go back "about 20 years" it seems.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZY6Tg2hB/dejagoogle01.jpg>

My bad. I neglected to account for retention. ES and Solani probably
have shorter retentions than Google Groups. I don't have a Giganews
account to check there. And GG is dead coming this Feb 24.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote

>> The alt.comp.microsoft.windows does go back "about 20 years" it seems.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZY6Tg2hB/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>
> My bad. I neglected to account for retention. ES and Solani probably
> have shorter retentions than Google Groups. I don't have a Giganews
> account to check there. And GG is dead coming this Feb 24.

No problem. I accept that you were checking my work (which is fine).
Usenet is water under the bridge to me and you were right that it wasn't
there "forever" anyway.

My use of "forever" was imprecise as I didn't even know how long, but
certainly I created the tinyurls for the Windows newsgroups ages ago, and
a.c.m.w existed then, which you can tell by clicking on some of these links
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-microsoft-windows>
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-95>
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-2000>
<http://tinyurl.com/microsoft-public-windowsxp-gen> (32-char limit)
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-8>
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
etc.

I just knew that it was 'always' there (for some value of always) all along
whenever I had posted things to any of the Windows newsgroups since about
Windows 95 days - where I used it because I knew that my tutorials would be
auto-archived there so that others could find them and benefit from the
effort I take in writing them.

I've always cared about others being able to access our Usenet archives,
where "others" don't need anything but a browser to read what we write.

They can search on any platform and found everything we've spoken about, in
addition to people who do know Usenet being able to search before posting.

Notice though that you brought out the MOST IMPORTANT value of a permanent
storage solution which doesn't require "retention" limits in a newsserver.

The good news is the dejagoogle archives are (almost) permanent and they go
back (almost) to the beginning - so "retention" shouldn't be an issue.

Of course, while the archives & the web searching from any platform will
(likely) remain for some time, it will stop autoarchiving in February.

That's where the narkive & other archives (e.g., pcbanter) will come in.

Suffice to say, I agree with the concept that we don't need specific
Windows newsgroups for each version, especially now that Windows is mature.

As an analogue, we don't have specific newsgroups for Android or iOS
versions, and even in the case of iOS that has a phone & iPad newsgroup,
the phone newsgroup is mostly what people use unless it's specific to the
iPad alone (which it rarely is).

Likewise with Windows, where my only goal (to add value) was to let people
know that there has been for about 20 years a "canonical" windows ng.
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
<https://alt.comp.microsoft.windows.narkive.com>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
--
The one thing about me that is different from many others is I hate being
wrong so I almost never guess as people who guess very often guess wrongly.

Wally J wrote:

> <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>

Did pcbanter lose its feed nearly 2 years ago? It doesn't have a good
reputation for the diybanter forum, most of the 'locals' KF messages
originating there ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Wally J wrote:
>
>> <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
>
> Did pcbanter lose its feed nearly 2 years ago? It doesn't have a good
> reputation for the diybanter forum, most of the 'locals' KF messages
> originating there ...

pcbanter.net still exists, but I've long filtered out posts from there,
and many other Usenet leeching web sites using NNTP-to-HTTP gateways,
and add more as I hap upon them. Each web forum at PCBanter indicates
to which newsgroup they leech. Their only forum that doesn't leech to
Usenet is one that discusses feedback on their forum itself where the
last post there was back in 2011 (which is a sticky info post about how
to post there).