paolo....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 13:55:11 UTC+1:
> If you have to send a file from Minicom to CP/M, how do you start the transceiver first with Minicom/lrzsz?

You use the auxiliary serial for the transfer and the console port for the terminal.
You can't if you try to use one serial port for both.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:36:23 AM UTC-8, Udo Munk wrote:

> You use the auxiliary serial for the transfer and the console port for the terminal.
> You can't if you try to use one serial port for both.

Exactly, Udo. I've always been under the impression that you have to have 2 serial ports to use xmodem successfully, one (the console) for commands and the other for the actual transfer. It has always worked perfectly for me with that configuration. Is that wrong?

Roger

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 7:48:23 AM UTC-5, Udo Munk wrote:
> Had some time to try this stuff again, on CP/M I'm using Martin Eberhardt's xmodem.
> You really have to start transceiver first with minicom/lrzsz, if you first start xmodem on
> the CP/M side the transfer will not start and times out after a while.
Udo

I use (in general) PCPUT and PCGET with lrzsz (with picocom, not minicom, but it shouldn't
really matter). When I get cycles, I'll try XMODEM. Now, with that, its receive first, then sx,
and send first, then rx. On the rx I may get one or two NAKs, then everything settles.

This also works with the Settings xmodem send/receive in the Altair-Duino configuration
(which runs native on the Due).

Note that a related problem is capturing paper tape punches! I set picocom to capture
(using log option), then, just before punching the tape from the Altair-Duino, I do 'cp /dev/null log'
to clear the log, punch, then 'cp log capture' -- I may then edit the "paper tape" with ghex.
This is all because picoterm does NOT send a CR or something on file capture begin
(nor does minicom)!

PS. I use picocom because it attempts no "terminal emulation". Except a single trigger
character.

I could use my la36 terminal emulator to solve this...that is a bit overkill... but that
also supports ASR mode (^Q/^A ^R/^T) per Teletype ASR-33.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:14:45 PM UTC-5, fridtjof.ma...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 7:48:23 AM UTC-5, Udo Munk wrote:
> > Had some time to try this stuff again, on CP/M I'm using Martin Eberhardt's xmodem.
> > You really have to start transceiver first with minicom/lrzsz, if you first start xmodem on
> > the CP/M side the transfer will not start and times out after a while.
> Udo
>
> I use (in general) PCPUT and PCGET with lrzsz (with picocom, not minicom, but it shouldn't
> really matter). When I get cycles, I'll try XMODEM. Now, with that, its receive first, then sx,
> and send first, then rx. On the rx I may get one or two NAKs, then everything settles.
>
> This also works with the Settings xmodem send/receive in the Altair-Duino configuration
> (which runs native on the Due).
>
> Note that a related problem is capturing paper tape punches! I set picocom to capture
> (using log option), then, just before punching the tape from the Altair-Duino, I do 'cp /dev/null log'
> to clear the log, punch, then 'cp log capture' -- I may then edit the "paper tape" with ghex.
> This is all because picoterm does NOT send a CR or something on file capture begin
> (nor does minicom)!
>
> PS. I use picocom because it attempts no "terminal emulation". Except a single trigger
> character.
>
> I could use my la36 terminal emulator to solve this...that is a bit overkill... but that
> also supports ASR mode (^Q/^A ^R/^T) per Teletype ASR-33.
As to terminals... I use XTERM -- sending hex FF is the same a sending a space! Is this true of VT52 and VT100?
But... because of that, I patch IMSAI 8K BASIC to produce 5xNUL (00) on CRLF, not 5xFF. But... on SAVE,
I change 00 back to FF to get paper tapes the same as the original! Not a huge deal, but I wonder if anyone
has tried FF (not formfeed, but hex FF) on a real VT52 or VT100? Is XTERM wrong?!? If so, should be reported. If not... its just a variance.
My approach of using 00 or FF as needed works (00 is "nothing" on XTERM and, as far as I know ASR and KSR 33
as well). Can someone verify that TTY 33 ignores 00 as well as FF (and 7F)? Thanks in advance.

The other day I updated fimware in my G90 radio. This of course has only one serial port and is not operated from a terminal. The serial port is used for CAT control and xmodem firmware updates. For this I need to bring the radio into update mode, connect to the serial with some terminal program and answer the usual question, do you really want that etc. Then xmodem receive kicks in, I see the NAK in the terminal. Then I go into the menu, send file, xmodem, filename and the transfer immediatly starts. So no, xmodem does not always need 2 serial ports to function.

Must have to do something with the xmodem implementation on the CP/M side, try some other program maybe.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 2:12:25 PM UTC-5, Udo Munk wrote:
> The other day I updated fimware in my G90 radio. This of course has only one serial port and is not operated from a terminal. The serial port is used for CAT control and xmodem firmware updates. For this I need to bring the radio into update mode, connect to the serial with some terminal program and answer the usual question, do you really want that etc. Then xmodem receive kicks in, I see the NAK in the terminal. Then I go into the menu, send file, xmodem, filename and the transfer immediatly starts. So no, xmodem does not always need 2 serial ports to function.
>
> Must have to do something with the xmodem implementation on the CP/M side, try some other program maybe.
Udo

I agree completely -- will play with Martin's XMODEM as soon as I have cycles.

> The other day I updated fimware in my G90 radio.

You're a ham, Udo?

De

Dennis Boone schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 22:13:42 UTC+1:
> > The other day I updated fimware in my G90 radio.
> You're a ham, Udo?
>
> De

I play arround with radios since I was a kid. I had such an electronics experimentation kit that allowed
to build receivers up to superheterodyne ones. After I got it runnig I showed it to my parents and my
dad said interesting, if you have everythig to build a receiver you also could build a sender, but he refused
to tell me how ;-) So I went to my local library and got some books, and in no time I was "on air".
As you can imagine my parents were not amused and something had to be done.

Most of my military service I did in radio communications, installed the systems in cars and tanks,
build up and tuned the antenna systems, repairs and so on.

I also worked 10 years for a company producing telco systems, also radio based ones used on ships
or places that could not be wire connected. Interesting stuff, the installation on Queen Elisbeth 2 was
done by us.

And yes, I still own a few radios to play with sometimes in my spare time.

During my military service I have been to Shilo and for a while I was your friendly radio operator
in the base there :)

On 1/18/23 16:13, Dennis Boone wrote:
> > The other day I updated fimware in my G90 radio.
>
> You're a ham, Udo?

I suspect many of the people who still share an interest in ancient
computers and OSes are hams.

bill
KB3YV (ex N2APY, ex DA1WO)

Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:
>
> I suspect many of the people who still share an interest in ancient
> computers and OSes are hams.
>
> bill
> KB3YV (ex N2APY, ex DA1WO)
>
And some us got our interest in computers as a follow on from our interest
in electronics generally which originally came from our interest in radio.

When I was a teenager in the early sixties, I had a friend Rainer whose dad
was an electonics repair guy who had immigrated from Germany in the 1950s.
We had a one-valve experimental transmitter rig on about 300 MHz which we
were allowed to play with - standing waves on a transmission line, etc - but
not allowed to actually transmit 'on the air',

IIRC, the circuit seemed very close to that of a one-valve receiver. My
memory tells me it was simply down to the value of a bias resistor on either
the grid or the cathode: low values would allow the valve to oscillate.

But I wouldn't stake my life on that after 60-odd years.

Regards,

Jack
--
My wife says I have two faults:
I don't listen and something else.

On 19.01.23 22:43, Jack Strangio wrote:
> Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I suspect many of the people who still share an interest in ancient
>> computers and OSes are hams.
>>
>> bill
>> KB3YV (ex N2APY, ex DA1WO)
>>
> And some us got our interest in computers as a follow on from our interest
> in electronics generally which originally came from our interest in radio.

Me, I'm a 66 year old retired (8'22) software developer/maintainer, last
employer was one of the big Linux distributors.

My interest in "ancient computers" comes from the fact that one can
thoroughly understand these old boxs. You don't have only a small
handful of big black thingies that do everything but you can point at
any DIL package and know what it does. Also, it's way easier to hook
something up a Z80 bus than up a PCI-whatever bus.
Yes, ucontrollers come close, but nothing beats a full
addres/data/control bus.

My 2cts,

Josef
PS My "ancient computer" is an SB180FX.