Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

>> People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
>
> It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
> that fits the cable that came with the phone.

Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.

In addition, modern Androids will have double the useful life of iPhones
due simply to the undoubtable physics of vastly fewer charge/discharge
cycles (those charging cycles being mostly what degrades batteries).

If people are desperate to charge a phone overnight, then it's an iPhone.

On 2023-07-30 09:44, Wally J wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
>>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
>>
>> It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
>> that fits the cable that came with the phone.
>
> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
>
> In addition, modern Androids will have double the useful life of iPhones
> due simply to the undoubtable physics of vastly fewer charge/discharge
> cycles (those charging cycles being mostly what degrades batteries).

iPhones are also less power hungry than Androids for the same
functionality due to the efficiency of Apple designed processors.
Android makers have to use the commodity "mobile" ARM chips from
Qualcomm et al.

I charge my iPhone 11 every 2 days at worst. I've had it near 4 years
and it's at 90% Max Cap.

I actually wish I could set it to charge to no more than 80% as that
would prolong the life of the battery while not affecting my daily power
need.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>>>> People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
>>>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
>>>
>>> It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
>>> that fits the cable that came with the phone.
>>
>> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
>>
>> In addition, modern Androids will have double the useful life of iPhones
>> due simply to the undoubtable physics of vastly fewer charge/discharge
>> cycles (those charging cycles being mostly what degrades batteries).
>
> iPhones are also less power hungry than Androids for the same
> functionality due to the efficiency of Apple designed processors.
> Android makers have to use the commodity "mobile" ARM chips from
> Qualcomm et al.

You are correct.
So let's assume everything you said is completely correct, a priori.

What matters for life is NOT how "power hungry" the phone is, right?
What matters is the sheer _number_ of charge/discharge cycles, right?

Those cycles are a _function_ of both how power hungry the phone is, and at
the same time those cycles are a function of the original battery capacity.

So you can't just take one metric without also including the other, right?

Here's how Apple defines a charge/discharge cycle for iPhone batteries.
https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/

"Apple lithium-ion batteries work in charge cycles. You complete one charge
cycle when you've used (discharged) an amount that equals 100% of your
battery's capacity - but not necessarily all from one charge.

For instance, you might use 75% of your battery's capacity one day, then
recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25% the next day, you will have
discharged a total of 100%, and the two days will add up to one charge
cycle.

It could take several days to complete a cycle.

The capacity of any type of battery will diminish after a certain amount of
recharging. With lithium-ion batteries, the capacity diminishes with each
complete charge cycle. "

> I charge my iPhone 11 every 2 days at worst. I've had it near 4 years
> and it's at 90% Max Cap.

This is physics that even Apple will admit to following the rules of.
The _number_ of charge/discharge cycles is mostly what degrades batteries.

The way they calculate that number is actually not what some think it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_cycle

"In general, number of cycles for a rechargeable battery (the cycle life)
indicates how many times it can undergo the process of complete charging
and discharging until failure or starting to lose capacity.[4][5][6][7]

Apple clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity,
but not necessarily by discharging it from 100% to 0%: "You complete one
charge cycle when you've used (discharged) an amount that equals 100% of
your battery's capacity - but not necessarily all from one charge."

> I actually wish I could set it to charge to no more than 80% as that
> would prolong the life of the battery while not affecting my daily power
> need.

You are smart to want to charge the iPhone to less-than-full capacity.

"Cycling a battery at less than full discharge increases service life.
Avoiding full charges and discharges reduces battery stress."
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-501-basics-about-discharging

Don't almost all phones nowadays have a setting to set that stop level?

On 2023-07-30 10:21, Wally J wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> iPhones are also less power hungry than Androids for the same
>> functionality due to the efficiency of Apple designed processors.
>> Android makers have to use the commodity "mobile" ARM chips from
>> Qualcomm et al.
>
> You are correct.
> So let's assume everything you said is completely correct, a priori.
>
> What matters for life is NOT how "power hungry" the phone is, right?
> What matters is the sheer _number_ of charge/discharge cycles, right?
>
> Those cycles are a _function_ of both how power hungry the phone is, and at
> the same time those cycles are a function of the original battery capacity.
>
> So you can't just take one metric without also including the other, right?

Precisely - which is why your "Androids have more battery" is countered
by "iPhones use less power" and therefore don't need larger batteries.

It is essentially a draw.

However, this also means iPhones use less resources (lithium, rare earth
metals) over their lifecycle (though such can be recovered).

Rest of your blather blown off as it is the usual delusional twisting of
your diseased mind, Arlen.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
>>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
>>
>> It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
>> that fits the cable that came with the phone.
>
> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.

Which is only half the story. Androids are more power hungry so use that
extra capacity faster.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> So you can't just take one metric without also including the other, right?
>
> Precisely - which is why your "Androids have more battery" is countered
> by "iPhones use less power" and therefore don't need larger batteries.

Facts are good. It's how normal adults communicate technical concepts.

It's good that you are able to talk facts as what matters isn't who says it
but what matters is what they said (don't judge a book only by its cover).

Everything depends on the ratio of charge usage versus the charge capacity.

For example, a typical 3-1/2 amp hour iPhone battery is half the capacity
of an Android 7 amp hour battery so you'd need _twice_ the efficiency just
to approach the level of a draw in terms of the undeniable physics even
Apple admits to (read their white paper on why their batteries degraded).

Some iPhones are more than 4 amp hours - but none are anywhere near 5AH.

Meanwhile, almost every Android (even the one hundred dollar phones!)
typically _start_ at the rather low range of 5 amp hours (which means even
the free Android phones have better batteries than any expensive iPhones).

> It is essentially a draw.

You have to know the ratio. I don't think I do. I doubt you do either.
Are iPhones at least _twice_ as efficient as modern Android phones?

I don't know the answer to that question but if you don't know the answer
to that question, you can't say it's essentially a draw as ratio matters.
> However, this also means iPhones use less resources (lithium, rare earth
> metals) over their lifecycle (though such can be recovered).

Again, I give you credit for being astute, as I agree with what the person
says, not who the person claims to be (which for almost everyone is a nym).

The only way it's a draw is if iPhones are _twice_ as efficient as
Androids.

BTW, I understand EXACTLY why most of the iKooks hate discussing facts with
me, and it's because most of you are completely oblivious to facts so you
can't have a normal adult discussion about anything - most of you are like
children.

It's good that you have used facts but you're still guessing at efficiency.

For example, nospam always claims iPhone RAM is "more efficient" (which has
no facts involved); where iPhones are arguably 3% to 5% more efficient with
RAM but Androids typically have 100% to 200% more RAM (so the iPhone is
vastly inferior in terms of the RAM usage - facts which nospam can't deny
but still does because he acts like a child when he's defending Apple's
undeniably cheap paucity in RAM).

On 2023-07-30 11:40, Wally J wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>
>>> So you can't just take one metric without also including the other, right?
>>
>> Precisely - which is why your "Androids have more battery" is countered
>> by "iPhones use less power" and therefore don't need larger batteries.
>
> Facts are good. It's how normal adults communicate technical concepts.

Would that you grow up and learn such.

Ignoring you now. Don't waste time with a reply.

Hmm, better yet: have at it.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

>> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
>
> Which is only half the story. Androids are more power hungry so use that
> extra capacity faster.

It's good you're speaking logic since adult conversations work that way.

Shoot me if I ever say an incorrect fact or if I ever say something that's
not logically defensible on the merits of the facts & logic alone.

The _biggest_ iPhone battery is less than five amp hours. That's a fact.
The _bigger_ Android batteries are over seven amp hours. That's a fact too.

If we use easy numbers of a typical iPhone being 3 amp hours and a typical
Android phone (at an equivalent price range!) being 6 amp hours, that's the
ratio you need to know for efficiency to be compared, right?

With those numbers, the iPhone must be _twice_ as efficient to be a draw.
Is it?

I don't know.
Do you?

Remember, nospam always claims iPhones are more efficient with RAM but when
we looked it up, it turned out he spouted complete bullshit since the
efficiency is in single digits while the RAM difference is triple digits.

Logic. Facts. That's how adults communicate.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> Facts are good. It's how normal adults communicate technical concepts.
>
> Would that you grow up and learn such.
>
> Ignoring you now. Don't waste time with a reply.
>
> Hmm, better yet: have at it.

It's _always_ the case with you that you give up when you can't play your
fact-free religious game using Apple ad slogans as your only source.

*The fact is you have no clue what the difference in efficiency may be.*
(Neither do I.)

Given you have no basis in fact for your statements, your statement that
they're equivalent clearly and rather obviously has zero basis in fact.

Therefore, you insult. And Run away.
It's _always_ what you iCrazies do.

Because you can't carry on an adult conversation.

Using facts.
And logic.

All you own are religious beliefs handed to you by Apple glossy brochures.

On 2023-07-30 06:44, Wally J wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
>>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
>>
>> It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
>> that fits the cable that came with the phone.
>
> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.

Why must you lie, Arlen?

>
> In addition, modern Androids will have double the useful life of iPhones
> due simply to the undoubtable physics of vastly fewer charge/discharge
> cycles (those charging cycles being mostly what degrades batteries).

You don't get fewer duty cycles if the batteries last for roughly the
same TIME PER CYCLE.

>
> If people are desperate to charge a phone overnight, then it's an iPhone.

Everyone charges their phones overnight, Arlen.

On 2023-07-30 08:48, Wally J wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
>>
>> Which is only half the story. Androids are more power hungry so use that
>> extra capacity faster.
>
> It's good you're speaking logic since adult conversations work that way.
>
> Shoot me if I ever say an incorrect fact or if I ever say something that's
> not logically defensible on the merits of the facts & logic alone.
>
> The _biggest_ iPhone battery is less than five amp hours. That's a fact.
> The _bigger_ Android batteries are over seven amp hours. That's a fact too.
>
> If we use easy numbers of a typical iPhone being 3 amp hours and a typical
> Android phone (at an equivalent price range!) being 6 amp hours, that's the
> ratio you need to know for efficiency to be compared, right?

And suddenly you're speaking in hypotheticals...

....not facts.

>
> With those numbers, the iPhone must be _twice_ as efficient to be a draw.
> Is it?
>
> I don't know.
> Do you?
>
> Remember, nospam always claims iPhones are more efficient with RAM but when
> we looked it up, it turned out he spouted complete bullshit since the
> efficiency is in single digits while the RAM difference is triple digits.
>
> Logic. Facts. That's how adults communicate.

So you admit you're not an adult!

On 2023-07-30, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> Everyone charges their phones overnight

If you're really charging every night, something is wrong with your phone.

Alan Brown said he charges his iPhone every two days which is about right.

My Android is only six months old. I charge it when it needs it.
That's for about two hours on the fast charger every two to four days.

Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.

On 2023-07-30 20:40, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-07-30, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> Everyone charges their phones overnight
>
> If you're really charging every night, something is wrong with your phone.

Ummmmm....

My phone is far from new.

>
> Alan Brown said he charges his iPhone every two days which is about right.
>
> My Android is only six months old. I charge it when it needs it.
> That's for about two hours on the fast charger every two to four days.
>
> Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.

Or it's just an older phone that gets used all day long.

On 2023-07-31 05:40, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-07-30, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> Everyone charges their phones overnight
>
> If you're really charging every night, something is wrong with your phone.
>
> Alan Brown said he charges his iPhone every two days which is about right.
>
> My Android is only six months old. I charge it when it needs it.
> That's for about two hours on the fast charger every two to four days.
>
> Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.

Don't talk in such absolutes.

I slow charge it out of custom every night. The phone has about 80%
remaining charge when I plug it, so nothing wrong with the phone.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 03:40:28 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.

Nobody?

That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.

On 7/31/2023 10:10 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

<snip>

> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
> many other people who do.

It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
smart watches, electric vehicles, etc.. The batteries in phones are
sized with the expectation of daily charging. Putting in a larger and
heavier battery than necessary would not be logical.

In the car, place the phone on a MagSafe phone mount which holds the
phone in the proper position and charges it at the same time. There are
cases available that make Android devices MagSafe compatible though at
lower wattage charging than a MagSafe iPhone. I have those on both my
iPhone 11 and my Pixel 7 Pro. It's slow charging, but it's sufficient
and doesn't heat up the phone.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-07-31 13:51, sms wrote:
> On 7/31/2023 10:10 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>> many other people who do.
>
> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
> smart watches, electric vehicles, etc.. The batteries in phones are
> sized with the expectation of daily charging.

Complete gibberish.

I charge my iPhone when needed. This about every 2 days - rarely 2 days
in a row and on occasion more than 2 days.

I charge my Watch every 2 nights.

No idea for my iPad - it can go over a week w/o being charged.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-07-31 19:51, sms wrote:
> On 7/31/2023 10:10 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>> many other people who do.
>
> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
> smart watches,

Not smart watches, if you want them to monitor sleep. I charge mine
while I shower.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:12:58 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>>> many other people who do.
>>
>> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
>> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
>> smart watches, electric vehicles, etc.. The batteries in phones are
>> sized with the expectation of daily charging.
>
> Complete gibberish.
>
> I charge my iPhone when needed. This about every 2 days - rarely 2 days
> in a row and on occasion more than 2 days.
>
> I charge my Watch every 2 nights.
>
> No idea for my iPad - it can go over a week w/o being charged.

I agree with those who have no need to charge their devices overnight.

It has been _years_ since that daily overnight charge was required.

Now you charge it for a couple of hours on a fast charger when it needs it.

On 2023-08-01, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>>> many other people who do.
>>
>> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
>> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
>> smart watches,
>
> Not smart watches, if you want them to monitor sleep. I charge mine
> while I shower.

Since they're small, how long does it take to charge those watches?

I haven't seen a device take more than two or three hours (at most) lately
to charge to full capacity once you put it on those new smart chargers.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
>
> Nobody?
>
> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
> many other people who do.

He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever
need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices.

It depends on how modern your phone is. The critical factors are the
capacity of the charger & battery and the number of cycles of your battery.

If you're using a new six amp hour battery for example and a modern day 65
Watt PD/QC charger you'll have a very different charging experience than if
you have an old outdated three amp hour battery on a 5 W charging brick.

How old is your phone and charger?
What is the amp hour capacity of your phone battery?
And what is the charging capacity of your charger?

The answer to those three questions is why you are still charging overnight
when nobody else is.

On 2023-08-01 10:26, Mickey D wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:12:58 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>>>> many other people who do.
>>>
>>> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
>>> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
>>> smart watches, electric vehicles, etc.. The batteries in phones are
>>> sized with the expectation of daily charging.
>>
>> Complete gibberish.
>>
>> I charge my iPhone when needed. This about every 2 days - rarely 2 days
>> in a row and on occasion more than 2 days.
>>
>> I charge my Watch every 2 nights.
>>
>> No idea for my iPad - it can go over a week w/o being charged.
>
> I agree with those who have no need to charge their devices overnight.
>
> It has been _years_ since that daily overnight charge was required.
>
> Now you charge it for a couple of hours on a fast charger when it needs it.

Not even a fast charger (I'm against those as the batt heats up more
resulting in shorter battery life - same for wireless charging - lots of
heat from the charging base).

At home or work I more likely plug in the iPhone while it's on my desk -
it also gets a good charge when driving as I have to connect it to get
CarPlay in my car (doesn't do wireless for CarPlay, alas - though
apparently there are adaptors for that for about $50).

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-08-01 10:27, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-08-01, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>>>> many other people who do.
>>>
>>> It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
>>> you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
>>> smart watches,
>>
>> Not smart watches, if you want them to monitor sleep. I charge mine
>> while I shower.
>
> Since they're small, how long does it take to charge those watches?
>
> I haven't seen a device take more than two or three hours (at most) lately
> to charge to full capacity once you put it on those new smart chargers.

Later Apple Watches take 1.5 hours to charge to 100% with the
appropriate faster charger.

Less in real life. After 2 days (effectively 39 ish hours), there is
about 35 - 40% charge left. So probably takes an hour to top off.

I've occasionally gotten 3 days (63 ish hours) out of it, but it usually
is near 0 by supper time on the 3rd day when I attempt this.

Doesn't matter to me as I do it overnight - I don't care about the sleep
monitoring functions - generally sleep like a rock.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 15:45:12 +0100, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>>Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
>>
>> Nobody?
>>
>> That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
>> many other people who do.
>
>He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever
>need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices.

OK, I don't object to that. But "need to" and "does" are two very
different things.

And "overnight" and every night" are also two very different things.

I don't need to charge mine every night, but I when it needs to be
charged, overnight is when I charge it. I even often charge it
overnight when it doesn't really need to be charged.

On 2023-08-01 11:15, Ken Blake wrote:

> charged, overnight is when I charge it. I even often charge it
> overnight when it doesn't really need to be charged.

Thus reducing the overall battery life. Above 80% charge is stressful
on the battery. Why Apple delay charging to 80% until near when you
unplug it in the morning.

Ideally, there would be a setting to not charge above 80%. Similar to
Mac OS on laptops. If you're not unplugging it often, it stops charging
at 80%. This can be over-ridden of course.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase