On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:

>On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>
>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>> activated.
>>
>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>
>>
Hello Good Guy.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
RaspberryPi 4 :-)

I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
new and old motherboards are ASUS?

Best regards

--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On 10/14/2023 8:34 PM, ...winston wrote:
> Jesper Kaas wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 12:54:45 -0400, "...winston"
>> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Correct, there is no point in the exercise of using Rufus(or any other
>>> matter) to install Windows 11 on the 10 yr old device that doesn't meet
>>> Windows 11 requirements.
>>>
>>> Windows 10 Home in Norway should be about 1600-1700 KR, Pro should be
>>> about 2150-2200 KR.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
>> Windows 11 Pro is 2699 NKR directly from Microsoft Norway. Home is
>> 1499.
>>   Best regards
>>
>
> That's approx. $246 US for Pro and $137 for Home.
>  -I was a bit high on Home and low on Pro
>
> In the US(Microsoft Store) Home is $139 and Pro is $200.
>
> Interesting, the premium price difference for Pro in Norway is more than
> the U.S.
>

FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.

<https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>

On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

>FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
>and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
>in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
>
><https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>

They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On 10/15/2023 10:53 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
>> and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
>> in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
>>
>> <https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
>
> They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.

No, we've been through this before here, and I think even Winston agreed
it was legitimate. Set up on my copy of Office went smoothly and I love
it. It gets used every single day without any problems. Would do it
again in a heartbeat.

On 10/15/2023 10:53 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
>> and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
>> in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
>>
>> <https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
>
> They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.

No, we've been through this before here, and I think even Winston agreed
it was legitimate. Set up on my copy of Office went smoothly and I love
it. It gets used every single day without any problems. Would do it
again in a heartbeat.

sticks wrote:
> On 10/15/2023 10:53 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
>>> and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each.  Don't know if that can be done
>>> in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
>>>
>>> <https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
>>
>> They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.
>
> No, we've been through this before here, and I think even Winston agreed
> it was legitimate.  Set up on my copy of Office went smoothly and I love
> it.  It gets used every single day without any problems.  Would do it
> again in a heartbeat.

Lol...iirc, I mentioned the Office reduced price was a special and
unique deal...When an earlier version is replaced with a later, some
resellers still have inventory that can be sold at a discount - i.e.
legitmate to do so, legitimate software. MSFT in these cases has already
been paid for the original licenses, with the reseller making some
marginal revenue rather than a total loss.

Rarely the same for a current version(e.g. Microsft 365 Office or the
subject o/s the op was considering - Windows 11 for a new device.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>>
>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>>> activated.
>>>
>>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>>
>>>
> Hello Good Guy.
> Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
> just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
> the PC ran for years.
> I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
> the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
> describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
> What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
> buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
> untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
>
> I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
> Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
> maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
> Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
>
> Best regards
>

As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
drive you intend to be moving around.

If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.

I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.

*******

A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.

Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.

Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
would have shipped.

But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.

Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.

A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers
might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.

*******

In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
between old and new motherboards.

Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).

OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.

First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
for the card (if that is even necessary).

Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.

Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.

Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.

This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.

Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
used for solving issues involving disk driver type.

Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.

Paul

On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>>>
>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>>>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>>>> activated.
>>>>
>>>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Hello Good Guy.
>> Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
>> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
>> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
>> just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
>> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
>> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
>> the PC ran for years.
>> I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
>> the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
>> describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
>> What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
>> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
>> buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
>> untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
>> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
>>
>> I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
>> Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
>> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
>> maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
>> Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>
>As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
>drive you intend to be moving around.
>
>If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
>the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
>
>I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
>
>*******
>
>A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
>
>Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
>
>Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
>Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
>builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
>would have shipped.
>
>But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
>
>Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
>vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
>
>A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
>in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
>SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
>Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers
>might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
>
>*******
>
>In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
>connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
>between old and new motherboards.
>
>Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
>in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
>And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
>does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
>ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
>
>OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
>
>First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
>to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
>for the card (if that is even necessary).
>
>Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
>instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
>Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
>no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
>used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
>Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
>
>Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
>
>Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
>connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
>
>This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
>INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
>boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
>
>Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
>motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
>But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
>used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
>
>Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
>set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
>an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
>in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
>
> Paul

Hi Paul,
I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
open, in case bad things happen :-)
So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:

- take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
USB-harddisk.
- connect this usb-disk to the new PC
- Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
- restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC

Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.

If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
Microsoft Norway.

So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
ugly cabinets :-)

Thank to all for good help

Best regards

--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:11:51 +0200, Jesper Kaas
<jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>>>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>>>>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>>>>> activated.
>>>>>
>>>>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>>>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Hello Good Guy.
>>> Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
>>> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
>>> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
>>> just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
>>> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
>>> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
>>> the PC ran for years.
>>> I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
>>> the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
>>> describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
>>> What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
>>> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
>>> buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
>>> untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
>>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
>>> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
>>>
>>> I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
>>> Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
>>> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
>>> maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
>>> Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
>>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>
>>As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
>>drive you intend to be moving around.
>>
>>If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
>>the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
>>
>>I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
>>
>>*******
>>
>>A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
>>
>>Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
>>
>>Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
>>Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
>>builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
>>would have shipped.
>>
>>But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
>>
>>Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
>>vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
>>
>>A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
>>in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
>>SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
>>Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers
>>might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
>>
>>*******
>>
>>In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
>>connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
>>between old and new motherboards.
>>
>>Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
>>in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
>>And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
>>does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
>>ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
>>
>>OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
>>
>>First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
>>to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
>>for the card (if that is even necessary).
>>
>>Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
>>instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
>>Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
>>no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
>>used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
>>Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
>>
>>Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
>>
>>Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
>>connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
>>
>>This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
>>INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
>>boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
>>
>>Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
>>motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
>>But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
>>used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
>>
>>Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
>>set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
>>an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
>>in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
>>
>> Paul
>
>Hi Paul,
>I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
>to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
>open, in case bad things happen :-)
>So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
>stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
>
>- take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
>USB-harddisk.
>- connect this usb-disk to the new PC
>- Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
>- restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
>
>Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
>correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
>probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
>
>If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
>image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
>Microsoft Norway.
>
>So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
>desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
>ugly cabinets :-)
>
>Thank to all for good help
>
>Best regards

And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)

I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.

On 10/28/2023 8:27 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:

>
> And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
>
> I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
> image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
> OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
> motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
> and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
> different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
> install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
> motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
>
> I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
> internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
> installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
> guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
> big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
> A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
> image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
> Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
>
> This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
> image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
> First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
> restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
> after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
>
> I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
> That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
>
> Best regards

You know that Windows 10 installs its own drivers, right ?

It needs a network connection to get the drivers from microsoft.com .

If can also install drivers, when you move the OS from one
machine to another machine. (Move from AMD machine to Intel machine.)

You can also run Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and ask the
OS to install a driver for you, and it will look in the
update server for a driver. But you should not have to do that.

*******

A way to prepare an OS for another machine, is to delete the
entire ENUM key which contains all the (previous) device detections.
A Kaspersky Rescue CD, can have a Registry Editor on it, which
is not configured to edit all the registry files. Just some of them.
And you can remove the ENUM key in there.

When the OS is running, the CurrentControlSet is a section of
registry which is a copy of one of the other Control Sets. When the
OS is not running, and you've booted a Kaspersky disc to use the
Registry Editor, there is no CurrentControlSet. Then, it is up to
you to Guess which ControlSet is the one that needs the ENUM removed
from it.

I've tested removal of ENUM on Windows 10, and the OS booted just fine.
It took on the order of an extra minute or so, to install all the
"easy" drivers that make the OS work. Thus, the ENUM tree is rebuilt,
as the OS boots.

What is my "fixation" with ENUM ? Well, back in Windows 2K, there was
a profile manager. It allowed creating a "clean" profile, then moving
a disk to another machine. And it would discover and load drivers into
the new profile. This was intended for "Docking Stations", so when you
sat a laptop down at a Docking Station, you would select your Docking
Station profile. Otherwise, on-the-go, you might select your "Regular"
profile. Well, the thing was, Microsoft did not intend people to move the
OS around using this feature. On the very next OS (WinXP), they removed
the Clean Profile idea, and only allows "Cloning" a profile. But the
practice of manipulating ENUM, continues to this day, and it still works,
even if there isn't really a good reason to be doing it.

If you interfere with the driver installation process, I cannot
predict what will happen.

*******

But as a test, make a clone of your original Win10 drive, bring the
new drive over, and just boot it. It should discover the drivers
on its own. It may take a reboot or two, before it sets to work.
There is no way to predict, how hard it will work on the drivers
either. In the year 2015, it did nothing at all to fix the drivers,
and this function was added after 2015.

It would only activate on its own, if it queries the Microsoft server
and finds a matching activation record for that hardware it is booting.

Paul

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:19:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 10/28/2023 8:27 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>
>>
>> And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
>>
>> I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
>> image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
>> OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
>> motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
>> and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
>> different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
>> install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
>> motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
>>
>> I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
>> internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
>> installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
>> guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
>> big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
>> A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
>> image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
>> Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
>>
>> This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
>> image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
>> First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
>> restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
>> after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
>>
>> I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
>> That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
>>
>> Best regards
>
>You know that Windows 10 installs its own drivers, right ?

My imagintion (I know nooothing, just imagine) was that Windows has a
set of "fallback drivers" that works, but not as perfect as those the
maker of the motherboard supplies. You see, in the second attempt to
install the win10-image, I tested some programs and they ran fine, but
when I wanted to start Google Earth, it gave an errormessage saying
that it could not run on the graphics on the PC. That made me think
that a new graphics driver would help, and since I thougt that the
existing drivers in Windows were kind of "secons hand" stuff, I wanted
to install new MSI-drivers. At that time something (not me for surely)
had allready started a program from SMI (the maker of the actual
motherboard) with a selection of drivers to pick from. I selected most
of it, like wifi, graphics (the processor an Ryzen 5 5600G has built
in graphics), network, Realtec ++). After the installation of drivers
had finished, Google Earth ran fine. But the Windows or the
MSI-program asked for a restart. This restart ran in a loop until I
shut down the PC. End of story.

In the first atempt to put the Win10-image on the new PC, I followed
the instructions from MSI, that said to install drivers accompanying
the motherboard right after Windows was installed.
>
>It needs a network connection to get the drivers from microsoft.com .
>
>If can also install drivers, when you move the OS from one
>machine to another machine. (Move from AMD machine to Intel machine.)
>
>You can also run Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and ask the
>OS to install a driver for you, and it will look in the
>update server for a driver. But you should not have to do that.

Thanks. Of course I did not think that far. Taking a look at the PC I
am writing this message on, I see no less than 11 "things" under
Networkcards:
- Realtec PCIe GBE Family Controller
- TAP-Windows Adapter V9
- Virtualbox Host only....
- Wan Miniport...
--- and 7 with "Miniport" in front and something after like "IKEV2",
"IP", "IPV6", L2TP".....
I now feel like giving an other try installing the image, and the look
at the Device Manager.

>
>*******
>
>A way to prepare an OS for another machine, is to delete the
>entire ENUM key which contains all the (previous) device detections.
>A Kaspersky Rescue CD, can have a Registry Editor on it, which
>is not configured to edit all the registry files. Just some of them.
>And you can remove the ENUM key in there.
>
>When the OS is running, the CurrentControlSet is a section of
>registry which is a copy of one of the other Control Sets. When the
>OS is not running, and you've booted a Kaspersky disc to use the
>Registry Editor, there is no CurrentControlSet. Then, it is up to
>you to Guess which ControlSet is the one that needs the ENUM removed
>from it.
>
>I've tested removal of ENUM on Windows 10, and the OS booted just fine.
>It took on the order of an extra minute or so, to install all the
>"easy" drivers that make the OS work. Thus, the ENUM tree is rebuilt,
>as the OS boots.
>
>What is my "fixation" with ENUM ? Well, back in Windows 2K, there was
>a profile manager. It allowed creating a "clean" profile, then moving
>a disk to another machine. And it would discover and load drivers into
>the new profile. This was intended for "Docking Stations", so when you
>sat a laptop down at a Docking Station, you would select your Docking
>Station profile. Otherwise, on-the-go, you might select your "Regular"
>profile. Well, the thing was, Microsoft did not intend people to move the
>OS around using this feature. On the very next OS (WinXP), they removed
>the Clean Profile idea, and only allows "Cloning" a profile. But the
>practice of manipulating ENUM, continues to this day, and it still works,
>even if there isn't really a good reason to be doing it.
>
>If you interfere with the driver installation process, I cannot
>predict what will happen.
>
>*******
>
>But as a test, make a clone of your original Win10 drive, bring the
>new drive over, and just boot it. It should discover the drivers
>on its own. It may take a reboot or two, before it sets to work.
>There is no way to predict, how hard it will work on the drivers
>either. In the year 2015, it did nothing at all to fix the drivers,
>and this function was added after 2015.
>
>It would only activate on its own, if it queries the Microsoft server
>and finds a matching activation record for that hardware it is booting.
>
> Paul

I will try what you describe tomorrow, and be more patient, waiting
for Windows to find drivers.
But that is just for fun. I will never get a free activation of the
cloned Windows on the new PC. I got a message from MIcrosoft on it,
saying that there were so many hardware changes, that they could not
activate it.
So it will be to install Windows 11 and buy a license.

That ENUM thing you talk about; can you say a little more where you
find it in Windows? Googling ENUM gives a lot but nothing that looks
as usefull in this context.

Best regards

>
>
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On 28/10/2023 13:27, Jesper Kaas wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:11:51 +0200, Jesper Kaas
> <jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>>>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>>>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>>>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>>>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>>>>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>>>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>>>>>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>>>>>> activated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>>>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>>>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>>>>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>>>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>>>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>>>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>>>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Hello Good Guy.
>>>> Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
>>>> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
>>>> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
>>>> just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
>>>> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
>>>> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
>>>> the PC ran for years.
>>>> I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
>>>> the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
>>>> describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
>>>> What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
>>>> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
>>>> buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
>>>> untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
>>>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
>>>> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
>>>>
>>>> I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
>>>> Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
>>>> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
>>>> maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
>>>> Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
>>>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>>
>>> As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
>>> drive you intend to be moving around.
>>>
>>> If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
>>> the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
>>>
>>> I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
>>>
>>> Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
>>>
>>> Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
>>> Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
>>> builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
>>> would have shipped.
>>>
>>> But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
>>>
>>> Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
>>> vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
>>>
>>> A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
>>> in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
>>> SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
>>> Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers
>>> might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
>>> connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
>>> between old and new motherboards.
>>>
>>> Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
>>> in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
>>> And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
>>> does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
>>> ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
>>>
>>> OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
>>>
>>> First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
>>> to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
>>> for the card (if that is even necessary).
>>>
>>> Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
>>> instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
>>> Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
>>> no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
>>> used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
>>> Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
>>>
>>> Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
>>>
>>> Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
>>> connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
>>>
>>> This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
>>> INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
>>> boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
>>>
>>> Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
>>> motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
>>> But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
>>> used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
>>>
>>> Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
>>> set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
>>> an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
>>> in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
>>>
>>> Paul
>> Hi Paul,
>> I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
>> to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
>> open, in case bad things happen :-)
>> So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
>> stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
>>
>> - take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
>> USB-harddisk.
>> - connect this usb-disk to the new PC
>> - Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
>> - restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
>>
>> Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
>> correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
>> probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
>>
>> If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
>> image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
>> Microsoft Norway.
>>
>> So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
>> desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
>> ugly cabinets :-)
>>
>> Thank to all for good help
>>
>> Best regards
> And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
>
> I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
> image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
> OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
> motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
> and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
> different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
> install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
> motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
>
> I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
> internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
> installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
> guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
> big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
> A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
> image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
> Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
>
> This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
> image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
> First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
> restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
> after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
>
> I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
> That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
>
> Best regards
>
Did you use this?
https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:00:00 +0100, Simon Cohen <MR@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On 28/10/2023 13:27, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:11:51 +0200, Jesper Kaas
>> <jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>>>>>>> Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
>>>>>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
>>>>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
>>>>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
>>>>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
>>>>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
>>>>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
>>>>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
>>>>>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
>>>>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
>>>>>>> everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
>>>>>>> activated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
>>>>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
>>>>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
>>>>>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
>>>>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
>>>>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
>>>>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
>>>>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Good Guy.
>>>>> Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
>>>>> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
>>>>> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
>>>>> just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
>>>>> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
>>>>> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
>>>>> the PC ran for years.
>>>>> I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
>>>>> the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
>>>>> describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
>>>>> What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
>>>>> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
>>>>> buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
>>>>> untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
>>>>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
>>>>> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
>>>>> Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
>>>>> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
>>>>> maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
>>>>> Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
>>>>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>
>>>> As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
>>>> drive you intend to be moving around.
>>>>
>>>> If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
>>>> the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
>>>>
>>>> I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
>>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
>>>>
>>>> Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
>>>>
>>>> Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
>>>> Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
>>>> builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
>>>> would have shipped.
>>>>
>>>> But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
>>>>
>>>> Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
>>>> vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
>>>>
>>>> A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
>>>> in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
>>>> SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
>>>> Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers
>>>> might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
>>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
>>>> connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
>>>> between old and new motherboards.
>>>>
>>>> Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
>>>> in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
>>>> And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
>>>> does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
>>>> ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
>>>>
>>>> OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
>>>>
>>>> First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
>>>> to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
>>>> for the card (if that is even necessary).
>>>>
>>>> Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
>>>> instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
>>>> Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
>>>> no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
>>>> used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
>>>> Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
>>>>
>>>> Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
>>>> connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
>>>>
>>>> This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
>>>> INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
>>>> boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
>>>>
>>>> Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
>>>> motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
>>>> But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
>>>> used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
>>>>
>>>> Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
>>>> set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
>>>> an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
>>>> in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>> Hi Paul,
>>> I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
>>> to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
>>> open, in case bad things happen :-)
>>> So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
>>> stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
>>>
>>> - take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
>>> USB-harddisk.
>>> - connect this usb-disk to the new PC
>>> - Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
>>> - restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
>>>
>>> Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
>>> correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
>>> probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
>>>
>>> If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
>>> image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
>>> Microsoft Norway.
>>>
>>> So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
>>> desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
>>> ugly cabinets :-)
>>>
>>> Thank to all for good help
>>>
>>> Best regards
>> And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
>>
>> I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
>> image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
>> OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
>> motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
>> and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
>> different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
>> install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
>> motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
>>
>> I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
>> internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
>> installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
>> guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
>> big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
>> A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
>> image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
>> Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
>>
>> This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
>> image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
>> First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
>> restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
>> after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
>>
>> I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
>> That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>Did you use this?
>https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

On 10/28/2023 11:01 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>
>
> I will try what you describe tomorrow, and be more patient, waiting
> for Windows to find drivers.
> But that is just for fun. I will never get a free activation of the
> cloned Windows on the new PC. I got a message from MIcrosoft on it,
> saying that there were so many hardware changes, that they could not
> activate it.
> So it will be to install Windows 11 and buy a license.
>
> That ENUM thing you talk about; can you say a little more where you
> find it in Windows? Googling ENUM gives a lot but nothing that looks
> as usefull in this context.
>
> Best regards

You can see the hardware items detected, in the USB section.
That's a history of things that have been plugged in.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/ydX6Nf6T/Regedit-ENUM-location.gif

When you use USB devices that don't have serial numbers, it
can make a mess of ENUM, and sometimes, the USB device, when
plugged in, the OS refuses to touch it. That would be
a time, when you could either do selective ENUM edits, or,
you could wipe the whole thing. The OS can regenerate ENUM,
as it boots, if ENUM happens to be gone.

The Registry has permissions, and if you run Regedit while
Windows is running, it can be very difficult to make changes.

By using offline Registry editors, they don't care about
permissions (for better or worse). That is how I could
get rid of that section.

If you get "the parameter is incorrect" during the addition
of hardware, that can sometimes be related to a permissions
problem in ENUM (while Windows is running). I haven't seen
one of those, since Windows XP.

Paul

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:00:00 +0100, Simon Cohen <MR@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Did you use this?
>https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
>
Hi Simon

Thank very much for the link. It is almost too good to be true, but I
tried it anyway with success :-)
First with the Powershell version. There came a text in red that my
antivirus (Bitdefender) said it was malicious. After a little
hesitation i dropped it and tried the script version. Also here I got
warnings about malicious software, but since it looked like being from
Microsoft I let it run :-) And tada! now I have an activated version
of Windows 10, ready for update to Win11. I ran a Bitdefender scan
afterwards, and that reported a clean machine.
This job is done on the new pc on a clone of Windows 10, not the
actual version running on the old PC. I will think a little about it,
and then take a fresh clone from the old PC and repeat what I have
done in this clone.

Best regards
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:19:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>You know that Windows 10 installs its own drivers, right ?
>
>It needs a network connection to get the drivers from microsoft.com .
>
>If can also install drivers, when you move the OS from one
>machine to another machine. (Move from AMD machine to Intel machine.)
>
>You can also run Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and ask the
>OS to install a driver for you, and it will look in the
>update server for a driver. But you should not have to do that.
>
>*******
>
>A way to prepare an OS for another machine, is to delete the
>entire ENUM key which contains all the (previous) device detections.
>A Kaspersky Rescue CD, can have a Registry Editor on it, which
>is not configured to edit all the registry files. Just some of them.
>And you can remove the ENUM key in there.
>
>When the OS is running, the CurrentControlSet is a section of
>registry which is a copy of one of the other Control Sets. When the
>OS is not running, and you've booted a Kaspersky disc to use the
>Registry Editor, there is no CurrentControlSet. Then, it is up to
>you to Guess which ControlSet is the one that needs the ENUM removed
>from it.
>
>I've tested removal of ENUM on Windows 10, and the OS booted just fine.
>It took on the order of an extra minute or so, to install all the
>"easy" drivers that make the OS work. Thus, the ENUM tree is rebuilt,
>as the OS boots.
I wanted to try deletion of the ENUM, but had no luck with Kaspersky
Rescue Disk. I burned a DVD, as I could not boot directly from the
ISO-file. But Kaspersky booted fine from the DVD. First there is a
choice between English or Ruski. Next choice is between Graphic
version and Reduced graphic version. Both versions took a looong time
(like 5 minutes gnarling on the DVD-drive, but nothing but a totally
black screen screen turned up.

A look at the version of ENUM in ControlSet001 looks impossible for me
to edit in Regedit, it is not ordered nicely like in CurrentControlSet
So there will be no playing with the ENUM per now. I could move the
DVD-drive back to the old PC and try Kaspersky there just for testing,
but will rather move on. As described in another message, a new clone
ended up working fine on the new pc. It was activated thanks to the
Link Simon Cohen was so kind to give.
So as I write, Macrium is preparing a fresh clone on the old PC. When
that is finished, it will go to the new PC for a final move.

Thanks a lot for your good help. It would be fun taking a class in
your computerroom :-)

Best regards
>What is my "fixation" with ENUM ? Well, back in Windows 2K, there was
>a profile manager. It allowed creating a "clean" profile, then moving
>a disk to another machine. And it would discover and load drivers into
>the new profile. This was intended for "Docking Stations", so when you
>sat a laptop down at a Docking Station, you would select your Docking
>Station profile. Otherwise, on-the-go, you might select your "Regular"
>profile. Well, the thing was, Microsoft did not intend people to move the
>OS around using this feature. On the very next OS (WinXP), they removed
>the Clean Profile idea, and only allows "Cloning" a profile. But the
>practice of manipulating ENUM, continues to this day, and it still works,
>even if there isn't really a good reason to be doing it.
>
>If you interfere with the driver installation process, I cannot
>predict what will happen.
>
>*******
>
>But as a test, make a clone of your original Win10 drive, bring the
>new drive over, and just boot it. It should discover the drivers
>on its own. It may take a reboot or two, before it sets to work.
>There is no way to predict, how hard it will work on the drivers
>either. In the year 2015, it did nothing at all to fix the drivers,
>and this function was added after 2015.
>
>It would only activate on its own, if it queries the Microsoft server
>and finds a matching activation record for that hardware it is booting.
>
> Paul
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:42:39 +0100, Jesper Kaas
<jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:00:00 +0100, Simon Cohen <MR@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Did you use this?
>>https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
>>
>Hi Simon
>
>Thank very much for the link. It is almost too good to be true, but I
>tried it anyway with success :-)
>First with the Powershell version. There came a text in red that my
>antivirus (Bitdefender) said it was malicious. After a little
>hesitation i dropped it and tried the script version. Also here I got
>warnings about malicious software, but since it looked like being from
>Microsoft I let it run :-) And tada! now I have an activated version
>of Windows 10, ready for update to Win11. I ran a Bitdefender scan
>afterwards, and that reported a clean machine.
>This job is done on the new pc on a clone of Windows 10, not the
>actual version running on the old PC. I will think a little about it,
>and then take a fresh clone from the old PC and repeat what I have
>done in this clone.
>
>Best regards
....and the fresh clone was activated when installed om the new PC. So
for some reason Windows/Microsoft forgot to check, or found out that I
have a legit license (which I have).

Best regards

--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no