On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>
> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.

I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.

--
Joel Crump

Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>
>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>
>I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
>was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.

I also have seen Win2.x, in the flesh. Interesting predecessor of
what was to be a successful platform, in 3.

--
Joel Crump

Win95 was the first version I've ever used.
Out of curiosity, I did go back and try all previous versions.
Even all the way back to DOS 1

On 11/11/23 7:57 AM, philo wrote:
> Win95 was the first version I've ever used.
> Out of curiosity,  I did go back and try all previous versions. Even all
> the way back to DOS 1

And the pity is that when Windows was originally developed, MS chose to
make if nothing but a glorified graphic front end overlay onto DOS. They
did it this way instead of creating a clean, from the ground up system
so the installed base of primitive devices could run it thereby
protecting their franchise.

90% of Windows "issues" are caused by this kludge

--
The most dangerous phrase in the language is “We’ve always done it that
way.”

On 11/11/2023 7:57 AM, philo wrote:
> Win95 was the first version I've ever used.
> Out of curiosity,  I did go back and try all previous versions. Even all the way back to DOS 1

Did Office have the Ribbon back then ? :-)

Paul

Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
> >
> > Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.

Birthday, yes. First release, no. As the linked article and Wikipedia
say, first release was not until *two years later*.

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/history/history-of-microsoft-1983>

"November 10, 1983

Microsoft unveils Windows, an extension of the MS-DOS operating system
that provides a graphical operating environment. Windows features a
window management capability that allows a user to view unrelated
application programs simultaneously. It also provides the capability to
transfer data from one application program to another. Windows wouldn't
actually ship until 2 years later."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows>

"Initial release November 20, 1985; 37 years ago"

So it's a bit early to have a party! :-)

> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.

Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
rest (on newer hardware).

On 11/11/23 08:55 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.
>
> Birthday, yes. First release, no. As the linked article and Wikipedia
> say, first release was not until *two years later*.
>
> <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/history/history-of-microsoft-1983>
>
> "November 10, 1983
>
> Microsoft unveils Windows, an extension of the MS-DOS operating system
> that provides a graphical operating environment. Windows features a
> window management capability that allows a user to view unrelated
> application programs simultaneously. It also provides the capability to
> transfer data from one application program to another. Windows wouldn't
> actually ship until 2 years later."
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows>
>
> "Initial release November 20, 1985; 37 years ago"
>
> So it's a bit early to have a party! :-)
>
>> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
>> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>
> Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
> rest (on newer hardware).
1985 to 2023 is 38 years.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 21:11:44 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>>
>>I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
>>was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>>Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>
>
>I also have seen Win2.x, in the flesh. Interesting predecessor of
>what was to be a successful platform, in 3.

I ran Window 2.0 back in those days. It was interesting, but I didn't
run it often.

In alt.comp.os.windows-11 Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/11/23 08:55 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.
> >
> > Birthday, yes. First release, no. As the linked article and Wikipedia
> > say, first release was not until *two years later*.
> >
> > <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/history/history-of-microsoft-1983>
> >
> > "November 10, 1983
> >
> > Microsoft unveils Windows, an extension of the MS-DOS operating system
> > that provides a graphical operating environment. Windows features a
> > window management capability that allows a user to view unrelated
> > application programs simultaneously. It also provides the capability to
> > transfer data from one application program to another. Windows wouldn't
> > actually ship until 2 years later."
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows>
> >
> > "Initial release November 20, 1985; 37 years ago"
> >
> > So it's a bit early to have a party! :-)
> >
> >> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
> >> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
> >> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
> >
> > Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
> > rest (on newer hardware).
>
> 1985 to 2023 is 38 years.

I assume you refer to the above "37 years ago". If so, true but it
isn't November 20 yet, at least not here! :-)

On 11/11/23 11:13 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-11 Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 11/11/23 08:55 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.
>>>
>>> Birthday, yes. First release, no. As the linked article and Wikipedia
>>> say, first release was not until *two years later*.
>>>
>>> <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/history/history-of-microsoft-1983>
>>>
>>> "November 10, 1983
>>>
>>> Microsoft unveils Windows, an extension of the MS-DOS operating system
>>> that provides a graphical operating environment. Windows features a
>>> window management capability that allows a user to view unrelated
>>> application programs simultaneously. It also provides the capability to
>>> transfer data from one application program to another. Windows wouldn't
>>> actually ship until 2 years later."
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows>
>>>
>>> "Initial release November 20, 1985; 37 years ago"
>>>
>>> So it's a bit early to have a party! :-)
>>>
>>>> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
>>>> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>>>> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>>>
>>> Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
>>> rest (on newer hardware).
>>
>> 1985 to 2023 is 38 years.
>
> I assume you refer to the above "37 years ago". If so, true but it
> isn't November 20 yet, at least not here! :-)
I knew someone would catch that 10 day calculation error. 😀
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>> >
>> > Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.
>
>> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
>> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>
> Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
>rest (on newer hardware).

Interesting. We had 3.1x/9x until 2000 was available. From there,
Vista was all I never had, though.

--
Joel Crump

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> >> I don't count anything before 3.x. But that's a hell of a long time, I
> >> was 13, 18 when 95 hit. But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
> >> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
> >
> > Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
> >rest (on newer hardware).
>
> Interesting. We had 3.1x/9x until 2000 was available. From there,
> Vista was all I never had, though.

I never had a real need for 9x, but maybe that was because we had
Real Computers (TM) with Internet at work (and (work-at)home).

Besides the Real Computers, I mainly used NT/2000 at work (and
(work-at)home). After that, privately, I used XP through 11, except 7.

Paul wrote on 11/11/23 6:48 AM:
> On 11/11/2023 7:57 AM, philo wrote:
>> Win95 was the first version I've ever used.
>> Out of curiosity,  I did go back and try all previous versions. Even all the way back to DOS 1
>
> Did Office have the Ribbon back then ? :-)
>
> Paul
>

Office 2007 - first 'Ribbon'
Surprisingly, most of the previous critical and negative feedback often
raised by the media following MSFT making changes(feature/tweaks) to
Office, the Ribbon was seen as a welcome improvement.

Plenty of folks complained about less real estate even though the Ribbon
was easily hidden. Likewise, complaints were focused on the
options/actions/commands on the Ribbon even though it was customizable.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>> > Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
>> >rest (on newer hardware).
>>
>> Interesting. We had 3.1x/9x until 2000 was available. From there,
>> Vista was all I never had, though.
>
> I never had a real need for 9x, but maybe that was because we had
>Real Computers (TM) with Internet at work (and (work-at)home).
>
> Besides the Real Computers, I mainly used NT/2000 at work (and
>(work-at)home). After that, privately, I used XP through 11, except 7.

You upgraded Vista to 8, then?

--
Joel Crump

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> > Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
> >> >rest (on newer hardware).
> >>
> >> Interesting. We had 3.1x/9x until 2000 was available. From there,
> >> Vista was all I never had, though.
> >
> > I never had a real need for 9x, but maybe that was because we had
> >Real Computers (TM) with Internet at work (and (work-at)home).
> >
> > Besides the Real Computers, I mainly used NT/2000 at work (and
> >(work-at)home). After that, privately, I used XP through 11, except 7.
>
> You upgraded Vista to 8, then?

Yes, went from Vista to 8[.1], but on a new computer (laptop), so no
upgrade, but a new install(ation). The only actual upgrade (i.e. on the
same hardware) was from 8.1 to 10 on SWMBO's laptop/'desktop'.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>> You upgraded Vista to 8, then?
>
> Yes, went from Vista to 8[.1], but on a new computer (laptop), so no
>upgrade, but a new install(ation). The only actual upgrade (i.e. on the
>same hardware) was from 8.1 to 10 on SWMBO's laptop/'desktop'.

My elite Windows 7 computer ran 10 just fine prior to late 2020, but
Linux provided a way to keep it a modern device. But this computer,
too, will deal with Windows 11 updates/upgrades, and with regard to
Windows 12, because if 12 is released and I decide not to use it, I
would immediately go to Linux, but I am actually interested in how
well my 11-era hardware would work.

--
Joel Crump

On 11/11/2023 11:38 AM, Big Al wrote:
> On 11/11/23 11:13 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-11 Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/11/23 08:55 AM, this is what Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> Joel Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone ? its 40th birthday.
>>>>
>>>>     Birthday, yes. First release, no. As the linked article and Wikipedia
>>>> say, first release was not until *two years later*.
>>>>
>>>> <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/history/history-of-microsoft-1983>
>>>>
>>>> "November 10, 1983
>>>>
>>>>    Microsoft unveils Windows, an extension of the MS-DOS operating system
>>>>    that provides a graphical operating environment. Windows features a
>>>>    window management capability that allows a user to view unrelated
>>>>    application programs simultaneously. It also provides the capability to
>>>>    transfer data from one application program to another. Windows wouldn't
>>>>    actually ship until 2 years later."
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows>
>>>>
>>>> "Initial release      November 20, 1985; 37 years ago"
>>>>
>>>>     So it's a bit early to have a party! :-)
>>>>
>>>>> I don't count anything before 3.x.  But that's a hell of a long time, I
>>>>> was 13, 18 when 95 hit.  But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>>>>> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>>>>
>>>>     Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
>>>> rest (on newer hardware).
>>>
>>> 1985 to 2023 is 38 years.
>>
>>    I assume you refer to the above "37 years ago". If so, true but it
>> isn't November 20 yet, at least not here! :-)
> I knew someone would catch that 10 day calculation error. 😀

And to think at the time, there were more sophisticated OSes available too.

The way things have turned out...

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/rF1333GL/CPU-in-olden-times.gif

The hardware was a lot more mysterious back then. The gold
coatings were thicker.

Paul

Frank Slootweg was thinking very hard :
> Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
> rest (on newer hardware).

my first pc in 1989 was MSDOS 4.0 with Windows 2 (soon updated to 3)
and Excel 2 in bundle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PC2286

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

In message <uisnv9$1eso2$1@solani.org>, Ammammata <ammammata@tiscali.it>
writes
>Frank Slootweg was thinking very hard :
>> Used Windows 1.0 on my ~12000$ 386 system. Then 3.x. Then NT and the
>> rest (on newer hardware).
>
>my first pc in 1989 was MSDOS 4.0 with Windows 2 (soon updated to 3)
>and Excel 2 in bundle
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PC2286
>
My first "proper" PC (having previously had an Acorn BBC Micro) was an
Amstrad PC1640 in the mid-80s. Just MSDOS, possibly version 3. I
remember it had a massive 20MB hard drive. :)
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 11/11/2023 03:08, Joel Crump wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>
>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>
>
> I don't count anything before 3.x.  But that's a hell of a long time, I
> was 13, 18 when 95 hit.  But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>

Well, I can count something before Windows.
MS. Dos, and before that CP/M.

But, indeed, Windows started with 3. It was wonderfull in these days!

Fokke Nauta

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 03:08, Joel Crump wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>>
>>
>> I don't count anything before 3.x.  But that's a hell of a long time,
>> I was 13, 18 when 95 hit.  But I stood in line at Egghead Software to
>> buy Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>>
>
> Well, I can count something before Windows.
> MS. Dos, and before that CP/M.
>
> But, indeed, Windows started with 3. It was wonderfull in these days!
>
> Fokke Nauta
I came in with Win95. I remember my first tramp into Internet; wiring
the PC into my phone, dialing, getting the crackle, and then all kinds
of pictures and stuff appearing. Experiences like that are magical. I
have a feeling for how the early explorers into Africa must have felt;
like David Livingstone. Although, I had no desire at all to spread
Christianity; I just wanted to meet the people.
Ed

Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl> wrote:
>On 11/11/2023 03:08, Joel Crump wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>>
>> I don't count anything before 3.x.  But that's a hell of a long time, I
>> was 13, 18 when 95 hit.  But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy
>> Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>
>Well, I can count something before Windows.
>MS. Dos, and before that CP/M.

I had CP/M for an Apple II system. We had all kinds of floppy disks
of stuff.

>But, indeed, Windows started with 3. It was wonderfull in these days!

Win2.x was cool, but never really had enough of a foothold in the
market, 3.x was an unbelievable and venerable success, and 95 through
Me thrived as successors, with XP finally merging home and business
use (along with a major Win2000 service pack that made it equally
functional as a 9x upgrade).

--
Joel W. Crump

On 11/13/2023 3:41 PM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 03:08, Joel Crump wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:01 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows just hit a major milestone — its 40th birthday.
>>
>>
>> I don't count anything before 3.x.  But that's a hell of a long time, I was 13, 18 when 95 hit.  But I stood in line at Egghead Software to buy Windows 95 on CD-ROM media, introducing the now-familiar product key.
>>
>
> Well, I can count something before Windows.
> MS. Dos, and before that CP/M.
>
> But, indeed, Windows started with 3. It was wonderfull in these days!
>
> Fokke Nauta

For me, anything that switched from cooperative multitasking
to preemptive multitasking, was night and day difference on
reliability.

With cooperative multitasking (which doesn't leave the OS "in control"),
boxes would crash or misbehave once or twice a day. The experience
was only as good as the least-reliable software running at the time.

With preemptive multitasking (WinNT/Win2K/WinXP...), it was finally
a real OS.

The Macintosh OS of the day, was cooperative as well. As a demo of
what that meant in the contemporary MacOS at the time, if you had
the "earth animation" running, and you started ten copies running,
only one "earth" could rotate a segment at a time. The other copies
would have to sit and wait. There was one CPU core. The programs
decided among themselves, when to give up control, and pass control
to the next program. There wasn't any such thing at the time, as
"things running close to simultaneously". The OS didn't give "time slices"
to each program.

When Apple switched from MacOS to MacOSX, that's when they got preemptive.

In the Win98 era, we got to see a networking stack that wasn't properly
integrated into the OS. The OS could block on a networking operation.
Eventually, every company writing an OS, could write a proper and well
integrated networking stack.

None of "the old rubbish things" happen today :-) That's something to celebrate.

Paul

John Hall pretended :
> My first "proper" PC (having previously had an Acorn BBC Micro) was an
> Amstrad PC1640 in the mid-80s. Just MSDOS, possibly version 3. I remember it
> had a massive 20MB hard drive.

trying to remember whether DOS 3 still had the 33Mb partition limit...
DOS 4 probably improved it, my HDD was 40Mb in a single partition :)

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

On 2023-11-11 14:45, Capt'n Butler wrote:
> On 11/11/23 7:57 AM, philo wrote:
>> Win95 was the first version I've ever used.
>> Out of curiosity,  I did go back and try all previous versions. Even
>> all the way back to DOS 1
>
> And the pity is that when Windows was originally developed, MS chose to
> make if nothing but a glorified graphic front end overlay onto DOS.

Version 3 was way more than that. I can not talk of version 1 or 2.

> They
> did it this way instead of creating a clean, from the ground up system
> so the installed base of primitive devices could run it thereby
> protecting their franchise.
>
> 90% of Windows "issues" are caused by this kludge
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.