On 27/03/2023 15:04, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks explained on 3/27/2023 :
>> On 27/03/2023 12:13, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> on 3/27/2023, David Brooks supposed :
>>>> On 27/03/2023 09:40, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 08:29:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/03/2023 07:58, James McDougal wrote:
>>>>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:26:34 +0100, ? Mighty Wannabe ✅ <.> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IBM made the OS/2, and within it the "micro-channel" technology
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> motherboard, and vowed to sue any clone maker who dared copy it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What exactly did they threaten to sue about?  Copying the
>>>>>>>> hardware or
>>>>>>>> the software?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    ? :rolls_eyes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sue about copying IBM's proprietary "micro-channel" technology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So how come everyone wasn't sued?  We're all using IBM clones
>>>>>>>> aren't we?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The clones did not use Micro Channel. The clones advanced from
>>>>>>> ISA to PCI.
>>>>>>> Micro Channel had only a small niche market, and PCI won the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You obviously know about computers! Thank you for your answer. ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you answer the question which I asked previously?
>>>>>> Message-ID: <T56RL.1060071$gGD7.255827@fx11.iad>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-detect-and-get-rid-of-malware-which-resides-in-my-computers-firmware-and-internal-electronics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there REALLY such a thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never observed it, it is possible.  My BIOS has protection
>>>>> against it, so thre must be threats out there.  The first answer in
>>>>> Quora is correct:
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>> Removal is the "easier" part: You either flash back original
>>>>> software into the firmware, exchange the firmware or you can't.
>>>>> Detection:
>>>>> 1. Symptoms (it behaves differently from original software)
>>>>> 2. Byte by Byte firmware comparison with original one.
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> I would simply flash it with the same as already should be on it.
>>>>> If it's a PC motherboard BIOS, this can be done within Windows, you
>>>>> used to have to load it on using a USB stick within the BIOS.  I
>>>>> assume Macs are similar? I've never actually been in a Mac's BIOS
>>>>> settings - can you press a key at power on to get to basic settings
>>>>> before the OS like on a PC?  I know there are some keys which do
>>>>> special things before the OS loads when the OS is needing fixed.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I'm aware there is *NO* equivalent to BIOS settings on a Mac.
>>>> But I'm willing to learn!
>>>
>>> Do you mean CMOS?
>>>
>>> https://www.macworld.com/article/224955/how-to-reset-a-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html
>>
>> No, Sir!
>>
>> I learnt about that within the first two years of owning my /first/
>> iMac! (bought 2009)
>>
>> Thanks anyway!
>
> Then what do you mean by "equivalent to BIOS settings" if not storage in
> NVRAM?

PLease see if there is anything here which will help you:-

https://www.google.com/search?q=there+is+*NO*+equivalent+to+BIOS+settings+on+a+Mac.+

--
David

On 3/26/23 23:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

> It's also badly done, the boot drive is empty, yet the OS is running?

Why do you assume this is the boot drive. Its labeled "DOCUMENTS" and
the boot drive is not always C.

BTW, I once had a Windows installation (I think it was w2k) that booted
from E.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Faith is the glorification of ignorance." -- Jeff Dee

After serious thinking David Brooks wrote :
> On 27/03/2023 15:04, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks explained on 3/27/2023 :
>>> On 27/03/2023 12:13, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> on 3/27/2023, David Brooks supposed :
>>>>> On 27/03/2023 09:40, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 08:29:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27/03/2023 07:58, James McDougal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:26:34 +0100, ? Mighty Wannabe ✅ <.> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IBM made the OS/2, and within it the "micro-channel" technology in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> motherboard, and vowed to sue any clone maker who dared copy it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What exactly did they threaten to sue about?  Copying the hardware
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> the software?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    ? :rolls_eyes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sue about copying IBM's proprietary "micro-channel" technology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how come everyone wasn't sued?  We're all using IBM clones aren't
>>>>>>>>> we?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The clones did not use Micro Channel. The clones advanced from ISA to
>>>>>>>> PCI.
>>>>>>>> Micro Channel had only a small niche market, and PCI won the day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You obviously know about computers! Thank you for your answer. ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you answer the question which I asked previously?
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <T56RL.1060071$gGD7.255827@fx11.iad>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-detect-and-get-rid-of-malware-which-resides-in-my-computers-firmware-and-internal-electronics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there REALLY such a thing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never observed it, it is possible.  My BIOS has protection against
>>>>>> it, so thre must be threats out there.  The first answer in Quora is
>>>>>> correct:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>> Removal is the "easier" part: You either flash back original software
>>>>>> into the firmware, exchange the firmware or you can't.
>>>>>> Detection:
>>>>>> 1. Symptoms (it behaves differently from original software)
>>>>>> 2. Byte by Byte firmware comparison with original one.
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would simply flash it with the same as already should be on it. If
>>>>>> it's a PC motherboard BIOS, this can be done within Windows, you used
>>>>>> to have to load it on using a USB stick within the BIOS.  I assume Macs
>>>>>> are similar? I've never actually been in a Mac's BIOS settings - can
>>>>>> you press a key at power on to get to basic settings before the OS like
>>>>>> on a PC?  I know there are some keys which do special things before the
>>>>>> OS loads when the OS is needing fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I'm aware there is *NO* equivalent to BIOS settings on a Mac.
>>>>> But I'm willing to learn!
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean CMOS?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.macworld.com/article/224955/how-to-reset-a-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html
>>>
>>> No, Sir!
>>>
>>> I learnt about that within the first two years of owning my /first/ iMac!
>>> (bought 2009)
>>>
>>> Thanks anyway!
>>
>> Then what do you mean by "equivalent to BIOS settings" if not storage in
>> NVRAM?
>
>
> PLease see if there is anything here which will help you:-
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=there+is+*NO*+equivalent+to+BIOS+settings+on+a+Mac.+

https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode

==================
BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
doesn’t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
we’ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
enter and use it.
==================

Yep, it helps.

In article <tvseto$39kcn$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
<FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>
> https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode
>
> ==================
> BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
> doesn¹t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
> we¹ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
> enter and use it.
> ==================
>
> Yep, it helps.

similar is not the same, and macs don't have anything close to bios
mode for pcs. it also depends on which mac.

as i said, 68k macs don't have anything, powerpc macs have open
firmware (and one could use its command line to for those so inclined),
intel macs have uefi (without any bios compatibility mode as was common
on windows pcs) and apple silicon has apple's own bootloader, each with
different options.

nospam submitted this idea :
> In article <tvseto$39kcn$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode
>>
>> ==================
>> BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
>> doesn¹t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
>> we¹ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
>> enter and use it.
>> ==================
>>
>> Yep, it helps.
>
> similar is not the same,

Equivalent function.

In article <tvsl1e$3am8f$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
<FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> >> https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode
> >>
> >> ==================
> >> BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
> >> doesn¹t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
> >> we¹ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
> >> enter and use it.
> >> ==================
> >>
> >> Yep, it helps.
> >
> > similar is not the same,
>
> Equivalent function.

only with intel macs with uefi, and there's no menu interface or bios
mode.

for 68k/powerpc/apple silicon, it ranges from nonexistent to very
different.

on 3/27/2023, nospam supposed :
> In article <tvsl1e$3am8f$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>>> https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode
>>>>
>>>> ==================
>>>> BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
>>>> doesn¹t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
>>>> we¹ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
>>>> enter and use it.
>>>> ==================
>>>>
>>>> Yep, it helps.
>>>
>>> similar is not the same,
>>
>> Equivalent function.
>
> only with intel macs with uefi, and there's no menu interface or bios
> mode.

But there are still "settings" stored in NVRAM.

> for 68k/powerpc/apple silicon, it ranges from nonexistent to very
> different.

I'm not arguing about terminology here, firmware code needs access to
stored, possibly user supplied, settings during the boot axis yet
before disk access. Call it whatever you want, but if it were not
possibly 'user supplied' data it would not need to be in battery or
capacitor 'keep alive' voltage NVRAM as ROM would suffice.

I posted that particular URL because it was the second hit in the
google search URL BD supplied and it disagreed with him.

In article <tvt46e$3den5$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
<FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> >>> similar is not the same,
> >>
> >> Equivalent function.
> >
> > only with intel macs with uefi, and there's no menu interface or bios
> > mode.
>
> But there are still "settings" stored in NVRAM.

nvram (and pram in earlier macs) is different than uefi, and it can be
accessed and modified from the command line (and apps in classic mac
os).

at the command prompt, type
nvram -p
to see what's stored there.

don't modify anything without knowing *exactly* what it's going to do,
and even then, don't.

> > for 68k/powerpc/apple silicon, it ranges from nonexistent to very
> > different.
>
> I'm not arguing about terminology here, firmware code needs access to
> stored, possibly user supplied, settings during the boot axis yet
> before disk access. Call it whatever you want, but if it were not
> possibly 'user supplied' data it would not need to be in battery or
> capacitor 'keep alive' voltage NVRAM as ROM would suffice.

it's for persistent settings.

> I posted that particular URL because it was the second hit in the
> google search

lots of stuff that comes up in a search isn't completely accurate, and
sometimes not accurate at all.

> URL BD supplied and it disagreed with him.

quite a bit does.

On 3/27/2023 11:34 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 3/26/23 23:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> It's also badly done, the boot drive is empty, yet the OS is running?
>
> Why do you assume this is the boot drive. Its labeled "DOCUMENTS" and the boot drive is not always C.
>
> BTW, I once had a Windows installation (I think it was w2k) that booted from E.
>

The drive having "0 bytes" used on it, I found that amusing.

It might be able to say "0 bytes" if it was RAW, but
since the label says FAT32, then immediately the used space
has to be >0 . RAW partitions say "0 for everything".

And sure, an OS does not have to install to C: .

It can install to D: or E: if it wants. The drive letter
is discovered during first boot. If the determination is
wrong, then it has to continue using that drive letter
on subsequent boots. That's because some of the resources it
needs, are identified by drive letter.

Paul

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
> On 3/26/23 23:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> [snip]

> > It's also badly done, the boot drive is empty, yet the OS is running?

> Why do you assume this is the boot drive. Its labeled "DOCUMENTS" and
> the boot drive is not always C.

> BTW, I once had a Windows installation (I think it was w2k) that booted
> from E.

Yep. I did too.
--
"He has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation." --Colossians 1:22. Tech. issues & Apple's update slammy day again. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

nospam laid this down on his screen :
> In article <tvt46e$3den5$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> similar is not the same,
>>>>
>>>> Equivalent function.
>>>
>>> only with intel macs with uefi, and there's no menu interface or bios
>>> mode.
>>
>> But there are still "settings" stored in NVRAM.
>
> nvram (and pram in earlier macs) is different than uefi, and it can be
> accessed and modified from the command line (and apps in classic mac
> os).
>
> at the command prompt, type
> nvram -p
> to see what's stored there.
>
> don't modify anything without knowing *exactly* what it's going to do,
> and even then, don't.
>
>>> for 68k/powerpc/apple silicon, it ranges from nonexistent to very
>>> different.
>>
>> I'm not arguing about terminology here, firmware code needs access to
>> stored, possibly user supplied, settings during the boot axis yet
>> before disk access. Call it whatever you want, but if it were not
>> possibly 'user supplied' data it would not need to be in battery or
>> capacitor 'keep alive' voltage NVRAM as ROM would suffice.
>
> it's for persistent settings.

Yes, user and OS changeable 'persistent' settings before disk access is
made. ROM is even more persistent than NVRAM.

>> I posted that particular URL because it was the second hit in the
>> google search
>
> lots of stuff that comes up in a search isn't completely accurate, and
> sometimes not accurate at all.
>
>> URL BD supplied and it disagreed with him.
>
> quite a bit does.

There's a good chance that even an Apple computer still 'stores' such
'settings' in CMOS. This terminology has nothting to do with BIOS vs.
UEFI or whether or not there is a capacitor or a battery or a user
interface like the various old 'CMOS Setup' programs in BIOSes did.

I thought that his statement indicated a misunderstanding on his part,
and I still do.

In article <tvthjk$3ibl2$1@dont-email.me>, FromTheRafters
<FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>
> There's a good chance that even an Apple computer still 'stores' such
> 'settings' in CMOS. This terminology has nothting to do with BIOS vs.
> UEFI or whether or not there is a capacitor or a battery or a user
> interface like the various old 'CMOS Setup' programs in BIOSes did.

one of my pet peeves is the term cmos is used for pc nonvolatile
memory. it was originally cmos, but it isn't anymore.

cmos is a process, as are nmos, pmos, ttl, ecl and assorted others.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMOS>

in any event, mac os x, being unix based, stores a lot of stuff in
assorted config files. welcome to the 1970s. very little is stored in
nvram because nvram didn't exist back then.

> I thought that his statement indicated a misunderstanding on his part,
> and I still do.

everything david says indicates a grave misunderstanding of the world.

On 28/03/2023 02:58, FromTheRafters wrote:
> I thought that his statement indicated a misunderstanding on his part,
> and I still do.

Please point to the item which you /think/ I misunderstood.

Thanks.

On 28/03/2023 03:34, nospam wrote:
> everything david says indicates a grave misunderstanding of the world.

Maybe that's because MY experience of it has been for far longer than
your own. :-P

I'm interested in what happens when YOU download and install ClamXAV?
Website:- www.clamxav.com

Are you able to run the "Free Trial" or are you asked to pay immediately?

Please advise.

--
David

David Brooks laid this down on his screen :
> On 28/03/2023 02:58, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> I thought that his statement indicated a misunderstanding on his part, and
>> I still do.
>
> Please point to the item which you /think/ I misunderstood.

That there is NO equivalent to BIOS settings on a Mac.

PC manufacturers generally called their basic input/output system BIOS
but by any other name such as UEFI they still perform the same basic
functions.

The term 'Settings' and that the storage is RAM as opposed to ROM or
EEPROM implies that the stored information can be easily altered by the
user or the system once running.

I think that you are thinking that internal off-disk data storage areas
are dangerous (malware?) or perhaps just used for "your trial version
has expired" sort of supercookie persistence function that you wish to
defeat.

CMOS is the type of circuit design and manufacturing process used for
these things because it consumes very little power and the 'keep alive'
voltage (whether it gets called a CMOS capacitor or battery makes no
difference) will last longer. Even if this stuff is all VLSI and
onboard the main processor chip, it still performs the same function.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:06:13 +0100, FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> After serious thinking David Brooks wrote :
>> On 27/03/2023 15:04, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks explained on 3/27/2023 :
>>>> On 27/03/2023 12:13, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> on 3/27/2023, David Brooks supposed :
>>>>>> On 27/03/2023 09:40, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 08:29:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27/03/2023 07:58, James McDougal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:26:34 +0100, ? Mighty Wannabe ✅ <.> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IBM made the OS/2, and within it the "micro-channel" technology in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard, and vowed to sue any clone maker who dared copy it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What exactly did they threaten to sue about? Copying the hardware
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> the software?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ? :rolls_eyes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sue about copying IBM's proprietary "micro-channel" technology..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So how come everyone wasn't sued? We're all using IBM clones aren't
>>>>>>>>>> we?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The clones did not use Micro Channel. The clones advanced from ISA to
>>>>>>>>> PCI.
>>>>>>>>> Micro Channel had only a small niche market, and PCI won the day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You obviously know about computers! Thank you for your answer. ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you answer the question which I asked previously?
>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <T56RL.1060071$gGD7.255827@fx11.iad>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-detect-and-get-rid-of-malware-which-resides-in-my-computers-firmware-and-internal-electronics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there REALLY such a thing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never observed it, it is possible. My BIOS has protection against
>>>>>>> it, so thre must be threats out there. The first answer in Quora is
>>>>>>> correct:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>> Removal is the "easier" part: You either flash back original software
>>>>>>> into the firmware, exchange the firmware or you can't.
>>>>>>> Detection:
>>>>>>> 1. Symptoms (it behaves differently from original software)
>>>>>>> 2. Byte by Byte firmware comparison with original one.
>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would simply flash it with the same as already should be on it.. If
>>>>>>> it's a PC motherboard BIOS, this can be done within Windows, you used
>>>>>>> to have to load it on using a USB stick within the BIOS. I assume Macs
>>>>>>> are similar? I've never actually been in a Mac's BIOS settings - can
>>>>>>> you press a key at power on to get to basic settings before the OS like
>>>>>>> on a PC? I know there are some keys which do special things before the
>>>>>>> OS loads when the OS is needing fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I'm aware there is *NO* equivalent to BIOS settings on a Mac.
>>>>>> But I'm willing to learn!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean CMOS?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.macworld.com/article/224955/how-to-reset-a-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html
>>>>
>>>> No, Sir!
>>>>
>>>> I learnt about that within the first two years of owning my /first/ iMac!
>>>> (bought 2009)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks anyway!
>>>
>>> Then what do you mean by "equivalent to BIOS settings" if not storage in
>>> NVRAM?
>>
>>
>> PLease see if there is anything here which will help you:-
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=there+is+*NO*+equivalent+to+BIOS+settings+on+a+Mac.+
>
> https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-bios-mode
>
> =================> BIOS mode only exists on PCs, right? Well, sort of. Although the Mac
> doesn’t have a bios mode, it has something similar. In this article,
> we’ll get into what BIOS mode is, its equivalent on the Mac, and how to
> enter and use it.
> =================>
> Yep, it helps.

Can't be letting users actually modify their own property can we?

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:34:14 +0100, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

> On 3/26/23 23:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> It's also badly done, the boot drive is empty, yet the OS is running?
>
> Why do you assume this is the boot drive. Its labeled "DOCUMENTS" and
> the boot drive is not always C.

The whole thing doesn't make sense. The left dialog box is of system, which appears to contain a computer and a documents folder, but no drives!

The right dialog box is headed "my computer", so it's not looking at just one drive or folder. But it shows a drive C labelled documents which is empty.

> BTW, I once had a Windows installation (I think it was w2k) that booted
> from E.

That far back drive letters meant something. It was ridiculous, you could trash a system by:
Take it's C: drive and physically connect it as a second drive to another computer.
Boot the other computer. Two C drives? Not allowed, the second one would be changed to D automatically.
Return the drive to the original computer. Now it only has a D and can't boot. Almost impossible to fix.

So I've no idea how you could boot from E.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:46:56 +0100, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 3/27/2023 11:34 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>> On 3/26/23 23:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> It's also badly done, the boot drive is empty, yet the OS is running?
>>
>> Why do you assume this is the boot drive. Its labeled "DOCUMENTS" and the boot drive is not always C.
>>
>> BTW, I once had a Windows installation (I think it was w2k) that booted from E.
>>
>
> The drive having "0 bytes" used on it, I found that amusing.
>
> It might be able to say "0 bytes" if it was RAW, but
> since the label says FAT32, then immediately the used space
> has to be >0 . RAW partitions say "0 for everything".

NEver noticed that, I just checked a formatted FAT32 USB stick, it says 64KB used. So it's actually counting the file allocation table?

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 23:12:56 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> On 01/01/1970 01:00, Bosun Jimmy wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote:
>>> On 26/03/2023 04:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> https://i.imgur.com/HZlXAyx.jpg
>>>> It's a screengrab from a TV program. OS/2? Something fictitious?
>>>
>>> I'm fairly sure that it is Windows 3.1
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x
>>
>>
>> The screen-shot says, "File System: FAT 32."
>>
>> The FAT 32 file system started with Windows 95 OSR2 in 1996.
>> Some years after Windows 3.1.
>
> You are correct ..... but your 'clock' is wrong!

It wouldn't surprise me if Windows 95 came out in 96. Did you know Windows 98 was actually called Windows 97? They renamed it when it took too long to come out. However I stole a Windows 97 off an FTP site. Bloody slow site, but I downloaded it at work on several machines, so I could make more than one connection (they limited speed per IP address).

On Apr 3, 2023 at 2:03:04 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.12uffesymvhs6z@ryzen.home>:

> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 23:12:56 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 01/01/1970 01:00, Bosun Jimmy wrote:
>>> David Brooks wrote:
>>>> On 26/03/2023 04:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/HZlXAyx.jpg
>>>>> It's a screengrab from a TV program. OS/2? Something fictitious?
>>>>
>>>> I'm fairly sure that it is Windows 3.1
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x
>>>
>>>
>>> The screen-shot says, "File System: FAT 32."
>>>
>>> The FAT 32 file system started with Windows 95 OSR2 in 1996.
>>> Some years after Windows 3.1.
>>
>> You are correct ..... but your 'clock' is wrong!
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if Windows 95 came out in 96.

I think it was late '95... like October or so if memory serves correctly.

(Googling)

August 24, 1995

OK, not quite that late, but close.

> Did you know Windows 98 was actually called Windows 97? They renamed it when
> it took too long to come out. However I stole a Windows 97 off an FTP site.
> Bloody slow site, but I downloaded it at work on several machines, so I could
> make more than one connection (they limited speed per IP address).

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Thu, 06 Apr 2023 06:32:24 +0100, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 06.04.23 um 03:28 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:27:47 +0100, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 26.03.23 um 14:18 schrieb Alan B:
>>>> Yes I do that but JL's post just had ucsm in the Newsgroups header so I was blissfully
>>>> unaware of the topic until he replied.
>>>
>>> Do you really have a plan?
>>> I did not add anything I just deleted all other NGs. That's what killed
>>> your filter. Your problem not mine.
>>
>> Oh look at all the children playing with their broken filters.
>
> Two weeks after the fact? Idiot.

Why would I respond instantaneously? Unlike you I have a life outside newsgroups. It gets replied to when I get round to it. What's the hurry? It wasn't a discussion about the current football game. Not time sensitive.

Ken Blake wrote on 3/26/2023 9:34 AM:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 03:34:46 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 25, 2023 at 8:23:30 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.12d81gbamvhs6z@ryzen.home>:
>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/HZlXAyx.jpg
>>> It's a screengrab from a TV program. OS/2? Something fictitious?
>>
>> I would say Windows with some sort of skin.
>
>
> My guess is an old version of Windows. 3.0? 3.1?
>

Unless the device is dual-booting Windows 95 or 98 with Windows 3.x and
using Windows 3.x version of ifshelp.sys then it can't be any version of
Windows 3.x.
- the dual boot condition with an operating system that uses FAT32(95,
98) is the only method for a 3.x version(with its ifshelp.sys) to be in
use. (i.e. 3.x is not FAT32 capable without the presence of a FAT32 o/s
and a little nudge from ifshelp.sys).

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

FromTheRafters wrote on 3/26/2023 10:48 AM:
> Ken Blake submitted this idea :
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 03:34:46 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2023 at 8:23:30 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.12d81gbamvhs6z@ryzen.home>:
>>>
>>>> https://i.imgur.com/HZlXAyx.jpg
>>>> It's a screengrab from a TV program.  OS/2?  Something fictitious?
>>>
>>> I would say Windows with some sort of skin.
>>
>>
>> My guess is an old version of Windows. 3.0? 3.1?
>
> I don't remember them as having the 'oblique wafer' type of drive
> properties graphic.

Can't recall either, the key word in the earlier pic was FAT32.
3x didn't support FAT32.

Mac group removed, not applicable

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:26:34 +0100, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ <.> wrote:
>
>> IBM made the OS/2, and within it the "micro-channel" technology in the
>> motherboard, and vowed to sue any clone maker who dared copy it.
>
> What exactly did they threaten to sue about?  Copying the hardware or
> the software?

🙄 :rolls_eyes:

Sue about copying IBM's proprietary "micro-channel" technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture

> So how come everyone wasn't sued? We're all using IBM clones aren't we?

The clones did not use Micro Channel. The clones advanced from ISA to PCI.
Micro Channel had only a small niche market, and PCI won the day.

On 27/03/2023 07:58, James McDougal wrote:
> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:26:34 +0100, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ <.> wrote:
>>
>>> IBM made the OS/2, and within it the "micro-channel" technology in the
>>> motherboard, and vowed to sue any clone maker who dared copy it.
>>
>> What exactly did they threaten to sue about?  Copying the hardware or
>> the software?
>
> 🙄 :rolls_eyes:
>
> Sue about copying IBM's proprietary "micro-channel" technology.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture
>
>
>> So how come everyone wasn't sued? We're all using IBM clones aren't we?
>
> The clones did not use Micro Channel. The clones advanced from ISA to PCI.
> Micro Channel had only a small niche market, and PCI won the day.

You obviously know about computers! Thank you for your answer. 🙂

Can you answer the question which I asked previously?
Message-ID: <T56RL.1060071$gGD7.255827@fx11.iad>

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-detect-and-get-rid-of-malware-which-resides-in-my-computers-firmware-and-internal-electronics

Is there REALLY such a thing?

TIA

--
David