I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with AC smart pin.

What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?

On 11/28/2023 6:04 PM, knuttle wrote:
> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
>
> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?

That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
of replacement adapters. I have made a side-view cross section below,
to show what the hobbyists have figured out so far.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/hp-smart-pin-psu-is-there-a-voltage-resistance-chart.3688865/

0v 19v S
| | X | | The barrel has an inner surface and an outer surface.
| | X | | The inner surface is Power.
| | X | | The outer surface is GND.
| | X | | The sense pin S uses a voltage divider.
| |_____| | If the sense pin has 5V on it, a different power limit
|___________| results than if the sense pin has 19V on it. Jamming
the pin to 19V, allows full adapter power or something.

The concept has apparently been deployed long enough, that third party
solutions exist. But fracturing the supply market and making two incompatible
solutions, isn't exactly clever.

One item for sale I saw, seemed to have a short adapter cable you put on the end,
implying the adapter was then dual purpose, without the adapter it powered an Acer,
with the adapter cable it powered an HP.

There are more evil things they could have done, but this one was evil enough.
The evil then, involves a new connector, as much as anything.

The other evil, is the lack of documentation. We're relying on hobbyists
to reverse engineer this for us.

Paul

On 11/28/2023 7:08 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 11/28/2023 6:04 PM, knuttle wrote:
>> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
>>
>> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
>
> That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
> of replacement adapters. I have made a side-view cross section below,
> to show what the hobbyists have figured out so far.
>
> https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/hp-smart-pin-psu-is-there-a-voltage-resistance-chart.3688865/
>
> 0v 19v S
> | | X | | The barrel has an inner surface and an outer surface.
> | | X | | The inner surface is Power.
> | | X | | The outer surface is GND.
> | | X | | The sense pin S uses a voltage divider.
> | |_____| | If the sense pin has 5V on it, a different power limit
> |___________| results than if the sense pin has 19V on it. Jamming
> the pin to 19V, allows full adapter power or something.
>
> The concept has apparently been deployed long enough, that third party
> solutions exist. But fracturing the supply market and making two incompatible
> solutions, isn't exactly clever.
>
> One item for sale I saw, seemed to have a short adapter cable you put on the end,
> implying the adapter was then dual purpose, without the adapter it powered an Acer,
> with the adapter cable it powered an HP.
>
> There are more evil things they could have done, but this one was evil enough.
> The evil then, involves a new connector, as much as anything.
>
> The other evil, is the lack of documentation. We're relying on hobbyists
> to reverse engineer this for us.
>
> Paul
With your information, I did some further research and found that while
some new models of HP laptops make a point of saying they use the Smart
Pin it has been around in HP laptops for about 10 years.
I wonder why now they find it necessary to make a point that they are
using it.
In my original search I kept finding some thing by "Humane" called an
AI-powered wearable smart pin.

Paul wrote:

> knuttle wrote:
>
>> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
>> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
>
> That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
> of replacement adapters.

Dell use the same plug, and yes I'd say it's a decade old. Quite
surprisingly the Dell/HP adapters were interoperable, at least when the
power bricks were 60W, don't know about the newer 90/120/240W versions.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
> > knuttle wrote:
> >
> >> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
> >> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
> >
> > That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
> > of replacement adapters.
>
> Dell use the same plug, and yes I'd say it's a decade old. Quite
> surprisingly the Dell/HP adapters were interoperable, at least when the
> power bricks were 60W, don't know about the newer 90/120/240W versions.

Our oldest (HP) one is for a laptop which was purchased in April 2014,
so indeed a decade old. I think it is 90W, but it's too much trouble to
check as it's mounted in a desk.

Our newer ones are 65 and 45W.

Using a non-HP adapter is no big deal. It will just give a popup when
the adapter is connected/powered. And that popup/'nag' can be disabled.
I did that when I needed a 12VDC(/220VAC) adapter to use in our 4WD
camper (small motorhome).

All in all a non-issue: No reason not to buy an HP laptop.

On 11/29/2023 5:39 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
>>>> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
>>>
>>> That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
>>> of replacement adapters.
>>
>> Dell use the same plug, and yes I'd say it's a decade old. Quite
>> surprisingly the Dell/HP adapters were interoperable, at least when the
>> power bricks were 60W, don't know about the newer 90/120/240W versions.
>
> Our oldest (HP) one is for a laptop which was purchased in April 2014,
> so indeed a decade old. I think it is 90W, but it's too much trouble to
> check as it's mounted in a desk.
>
> Our newer ones are 65 and 45W.
>
> Using a non-HP adapter is no big deal. It will just give a popup when
> the adapter is connected/powered. And that popup/'nag' can be disabled.
> I did that when I needed a 12VDC(/220VAC) adapter to use in our 4WD
> camper (small motorhome).
>
> All in all a non-issue: No reason not to buy an HP laptop.
Have you tried to use a 12V to 120V inverter. I have found that
carrying one in the car and when camping gives me one point to take care
of all of my charging needs. You just plug the inverter to a 12V
source and then plug the AC power cord into the inverter. There are
many for about $30, compare this to the cost of buying a 12V cord for
every unit that you have that need charging. phones, computers, etc.

knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/29/2023 5:39 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> >> Paul wrote:
> >>^M
> >>> knuttle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
> >>>> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
> >>>
> >>> That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
> >>> of replacement adapters.
> >>
> >> Dell use the same plug, and yes I'd say it's a decade old. Quite
> >> surprisingly the Dell/HP adapters were interoperable, at least when the^M
> >> power bricks were 60W, don't know about the newer 90/120/240W versions.
> >
> > Our oldest (HP) one is for a laptop which was purchased in April 2014,
> > so indeed a decade old. I think it is 90W, but it's too much trouble to
> > check as it's mounted in a desk.
> >
> > Our newer ones are 65 and 45W.
> >
> > Using a non-HP adapter is no big deal. It will just give a popup when
> > the adapter is connected/powered. And that popup/'nag' can be disabled.
> > I did that when I needed a 12VDC(/220VAC) adapter to use in our 4WD
> > camper (small motorhome).
> >
> > All in all a non-issue: No reason not to buy an HP laptop.
>
> Have you tried to use a 12V to 120V inverter. I have found that
> carrying one in the car and when camping gives me one point to take care
> of all of my charging needs. You just plug the inverter to a 12V
> source and then plug the AC power cord into the inverter. There are
> many for about $30, compare this to the cost of buying a 12V cord for
> every unit that you have that need charging. phones, computers, etc.

Thanks for the heads up.

Yes, we also have a small 12VDC to 220VAC inverter. But using the
12VDC laptop adapter is generally more convenient, because we can charge
most other devices (phones, tablets, batteries, etc.) also from 12VDC.

The only 220VAC-only devices are a shaver and the chargers for the
batteries of our cameras, but those lasts for a long time, so we'll
probably have AC power when they need recharging (and we have the
inverter as backup).

But, as always, it's nice that "Great minds think alike!" :-)

On 11/29/2023 2:09 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/29/2023 5:39 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>> ^M
>>>>> knuttle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was looking at new computers and the HP said it came with  AC smart pin.
>>>>>> What is it, and how is it implemented in the computer system?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a lock-in solution. It's intended to prevent easy purchase
>>>>> of replacement adapters.
>>>>
>>>> Dell use the same plug, and yes I'd say it's a decade old. Quite
>>>> surprisingly the Dell/HP adapters were interoperable, at least when the^M
>>>> power bricks were 60W, don't know about the newer 90/120/240W versions.
>>>
>>> Our oldest (HP) one is for a laptop which was purchased in April 2014,
>>> so indeed a decade old. I think it is 90W, but it's too much trouble to
>>> check as it's mounted in a desk.
>>>
>>> Our newer ones are 65 and 45W.
>>>
>>> Using a non-HP adapter is no big deal. It will just give a popup when
>>> the adapter is connected/powered. And that popup/'nag' can be disabled.
>>> I did that when I needed a 12VDC(/220VAC) adapter to use in our 4WD
>>> camper (small motorhome).
>>>
>>> All in all a non-issue: No reason not to buy an HP laptop.
>>
>> Have you tried to use a 12V to 120V inverter. I have found that
>> carrying one in the car and when camping gives me one point to take care
>> of all of my charging needs. You just plug the inverter to a 12V
>> source and then plug the AC power cord into the inverter. There are
>> many for about $30, compare this to the cost of buying a 12V cord for
>> every unit that you have that need charging. phones, computers, etc.
>
> Thanks for the heads up.
>
> Yes, we also have a small 12VDC to 220VAC inverter. But using the
> 12VDC laptop adapter is generally more convenient, because we can charge
> most other devices (phones, tablets, batteries, etc.) also from 12VDC.
>
> The only 220VAC-only devices are a shaver and the chargers for the
> batteries of our cameras, but those lasts for a long time, so we'll
> probably have AC power when they need recharging (and we have the
> inverter as backup).
>
> But, as always, it's nice that "Great minds think alike!" :-)
Most device I have required a completely separate 12 volt cable, you
plug it into the 12 volt source and into the standard power socket on
the device. most are not inter changeable. Because of this I need
one 12V adapter and one 120 volt adapter for each unit that I need to
charge. If you have a phone, computer, etc you quickly need a suitcase
for the adapters. I am in the US