I have a lot, 46, programs in my task bar, and when I rebooted the last
time (a reboot not because Windows was jammed up, only because Synergy
was not working) a) the task bar was in a different order, and b) at
least two of the programs, Forte-Agent and Tunein, were missing.

This is not the first time a big chunk of the task bar went from the
head of the liast to the tail, and the last time that cured itself the
next time I rebooted. But it is the first time I noticed program icons
missing from the task bar.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

I went to the Desktop to start my newsgroup reader and I haven't
rebooted yet so I don't know if the bar will be back to normal if I do,
but I wanted to report this and check if this is a known problem.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 7 Dec 2023 00:16 +0000 (GMT Standard
Time), john@jeasonNoSpam.cix.co.uk (John K.Eason) wrote:

>In article <d2k1nit1prkb2ieu849305e667p14m0bia@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com
>(micky) wrote:
>
>> *From:* micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>> *Date:* Wed, 06 Dec 2023 14:54:54 -0500
>>
>> I have a lot, 46, programs in my task bar, and when I rebooted the
>> last time (a reboot not because Windows was jammed up, only because
>> Synergy was not working) a) the task bar was in a different order, and
>> b) at least two of the programs, Forte-Agent and Tunein, were missing.
>>
>> This is not the first time a big chunk of the task bar went from the
>> head of the liast to the tail, and the last time that cured itself
>> the next time I rebooted. But it is the first time I noticed program
>> icons missing from the task bar.
>>
>> Does this ring a bell with anyone?
>
>Nope, but I only keep six on mine, although I do have around 20 (including folders
>with shortcuts in them) on the (old style) start menu courtesy of Open Shell.
>You do realise that you can drag and drop the icons to re-order them on the
>taskbar don't you?

Yes, that's what I did, but a) It's an inconvenience, b) it was
compounded by two (or more?) programs being missing, c) even if it were
no problem at all, it intrigues me. C is probably the most important.

I restarted windows and it wa just as bad, but maybe that's because I
added one of the missing programs. Maybe if I hadn't, it would have
looked right again.

On 12/6/2023 9:12 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 7 Dec 2023 00:16 +0000 (GMT Standard
> Time), john@jeasonNoSpam.cix.co.uk (John K.Eason) wrote:
>
>> In article <d2k1nit1prkb2ieu849305e667p14m0bia@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com
>> (micky) wrote:
>>
>>> *From:* micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>> *Date:* Wed, 06 Dec 2023 14:54:54 -0500
>>>
>>> I have a lot, 46, programs in my task bar, and when I rebooted the
>>> last time (a reboot not because Windows was jammed up, only because
>>> Synergy was not working) a) the task bar was in a different order, and
>>> b) at least two of the programs, Forte-Agent and Tunein, were missing.
>>>
>>> This is not the first time a big chunk of the task bar went from the
>>> head of the liast to the tail, and the last time that cured itself
>>> the next time I rebooted. But it is the first time I noticed program
>>> icons missing from the task bar.
>>>
>>> Does this ring a bell with anyone?
>>
>> Nope, but I only keep six on mine, although I do have around 20 (including folders
>> with shortcuts in them) on the (old style) start menu courtesy of Open Shell.
>> You do realise that you can drag and drop the icons to re-order them on the
>> taskbar don't you?
>
> Yes, that's what I did, but a) It's an inconvenience, b) it was
> compounded by two (or more?) programs being missing, c) even if it were
> no problem at all, it intrigues me. C is probably the most important.
>
> I restarted windows and it wa just as bad, but maybe that's because I
> added one of the missing programs. Maybe if I hadn't, it would have
> looked right again.
>

If you had a monitor this big, your icons would behave.

https://www.techspot.com/articles-info/2292/images/2021-07-16-image-5-j.webp

(https://www.techspot.com/review/2292-lg-c1-oled-gaming)

There's room for at least 60 icons in one row there.

It's too bad they didn't make a monitor just for icons.

*******

You should get in the habit of taking pictures. The <shift>-PrintScreen
can take a screenshot immediately, which can be pasted into a graphics application.
That's an example of something you expect to work, cross-platform. And it allows
you to gather evidence, without having to fiddle with stuff quite as much.

*******

Programs seem to be able to "reserve" a spot on the taskbar, even if the
icon file is missing. And that will leave a gaptooth taskbar.

For a taskbar icon to go missing, implies more is wrong than just a
missing icon file. A program has to be running, to get a spot on the
taskbar. Or, a program or item can be "pinned", which gives it a permanent
spot. I don't know in your description, which of those types was
involved in the loss-situation.

A recent incident on Windows 11, indicated that "something" happened to the
display subsystem, where programs were losing their connection to some
function, and that caused some weirdness that results in a reboot
being needed. I have also seen icons on the taskbar "dance" when memory is
low. Now, that's most disconcerting. Because you dare not click something, as
by the time the click has registered, the icon has moved already. the whole incident
was triggered by doing a File Explorer search for "content:notepad" across
all of C: as an experiment. And that search, seems to have put "pressure"
on other parts of the desktop, as if memory was running out somewhere.

"Why don't things stay in their lanes, on these OSes?" Dunno. I don't
understand why "reserved resources" are no longer a popular concept for
ensuring stability in an OS and DE. I mean, some of this started when
CHKDSK was using up all RAM, and people tried to convince Sinovsky
that this was actually a bad idea. It took the dude who forked
four CHKDSK processes at the same time, to enforce to the guy that
this is really really a bad idea. But resource fights within the OS,
unrecognized architectural mistakes, are a persistent theme. It's a complex
OS. And some of the feature set is just "itching to break stuff".

Paul

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 14:54:54 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

> I have a lot, 46, programs in my task bar, and when I rebooted the last
>time (a reboot not because Windows was jammed up, only because Synergy
>was not working) a) the task bar was in a different order, and b) at
>least two of the programs, Forte-Agent and Tunein, were missing.
>
>This is not the first time a big chunk of the task bar went from the
>head of the liast to the tail, and the last time that cured itself the
>next time I rebooted. But it is the first time I noticed program icons
>missing from the task bar.
>
>Does this ring a bell with anyone?
>
>I went to the Desktop to start my newsgroup reader and I haven't
>rebooted yet so I don't know if the bar will be back to normal if I do,
>but I wanted to report this and check if this is a known problem.

You have 46 shortcuts *pinned* to your taskbar?

Yeah, I don't think MS planned for that use case...

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On 12/7/2023 10:34 AM, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 14:54:54 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a lot, 46, programs in my task bar, and when I rebooted the last
>> time (a reboot not because Windows was jammed up, only because Synergy
>> was not working) a) the task bar was in a different order, and b) at
>> least two of the programs, Forte-Agent and Tunein, were missing.
>>
>> This is not the first time a big chunk of the task bar went from the
>> head of the liast to the tail, and the last time that cured itself the
>> next time I rebooted. But it is the first time I noticed program icons
>> missing from the task bar.
>>
>> Does this ring a bell with anyone?
>>
>> I went to the Desktop to start my newsgroup reader and I haven't
>> rebooted yet so I don't know if the bar will be back to normal if I do,
>> but I wanted to report this and check if this is a known problem.
>
> You have 46 shortcuts *pinned* to your taskbar?
>
> Yeah, I don't think MS planned for that use case...
>

I found a monitor, which is wide enough to hold more than the 46 items
in the OPs situation (whatever that situation is). Microsoft has to plan
for 4K monitors, or monitors that are at least 48 inches wide. And they can
hold a decent number of icons on the taskbar.

These OSes, unfortunately, have some bad corner case behaviors, with
high utilization patterns. I uncovered one the other day, while
testing a File Explorer "content:notepad" search as a test of the
behavior when C: has no giant Windows.db index created for it. After that
had been running for a while, the desktop became unstable, and I think
eventually I got the "dancing task bar icon" problem. When that happens,
it is reboot time, as most of your "reasonable" responses are unavailable
when the interface is dancing on your screen. This is when you're
reaching for alt-F4 to bring up the reboot menu.

If we go back to WinXP, the only pattern I disliked there, is if you
started more tasks than you had cores, and the tasks used a lot of CPU,
there was a "tendency for tasks to die, until the load became reasonable".
Which is a behavior I could live with. I was testing a pathology there,
of starting multiple Prime95 program instances, to do a "burnin test".
And if you started too many separate ones (WITHOUT using up all memory),
the OS seemed to be causing a few of them to die. Until the load was
again a "comfortable one".

But W10/W11 is just a minefield of stuff you must not do. One day,
I locked the machine up, and it's because I had started two processes
that used RAM. The System Write Cache does not take No for an answer,
and I'd started saving something in one window. And it was consuming
cache memory. And some other process I was using, also wanted RAM.
And before I could kill one of the two items, the machine was locked
up tight, keyboard didn't work, and I had to hit the reset button.

For some of these cases, you have to be ninja-fast, to bring the
machine back into control in time.

Paul

On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 17:13:21 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

>But W10/W11 is just a minefield of stuff you must not do. One day,
>I locked the machine up, and it's because I had started two processes
>that used RAM. The System Write Cache does not take No for an answer,
>and I'd started saving something in one window. And it was consuming
>cache memory. And some other process I was using, also wanted RAM.
>And before I could kill one of the two items, the machine was locked
>up tight, keyboard didn't work, and I had to hit the reset button.
>
>For some of these cases, you have to be ninja-fast, to bring the
>machine back into control in time.

Yeah. They're very robust OSes, but if you get weird you can always find
an edge case.

I have odd usage patterns, so I get the really premium level bugs. Stuff
QA -- who are really Insiders at this point and then consumer users after
that -- never dreamed would happen.

"Why on Earth would you want to do *that*?" stuff. Like 46 pinned apps on
the taskbar.

No hard lock ups though. You're ahead of me on that matter.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten