I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
them and copy them back.

What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
mixed up.)

**though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
"locked"?)

On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 12:25:23 -0500, micky wrote:
> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> image software and do what I want.

Robocopy, and it's already part of your installed Windows. It takes
an image of the

But Macrium Reflect can give you something Robocopy won't: password-
protected encryption. It's really a good idea to encrypt your
backups. If, heaven forbid, someone breaks into your house to rob
you, you don't want your financial information on that external hard
drive to be easily accessible.

How likely is it that a burglar would have the computer skills to
find your account numbers and other information on an unencrypted
backup disk? Not 100%, but why take chances?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 12/26/23 12:25 PM, micky wrote:
> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
> them and copy them back.
>
> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
> mixed up.)
>
> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
> "locked"?)
You can't 'copy' files and get all the hard links, permissions, and maybe hidden, or files you just can't access due to
'trusted installer' and such. If you could, robocopy would be a great tool for backups.
And yes, files in use.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
> them and copy them back.
>
> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
> mixed up.)
>
> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
> "locked"?)

You can mount a Macrium Reflect image file to get at individual files
within the image file.

http://reflect.macrium.com/help/v5/how_to/restore/browse_files_in_backups.htm
Steps 1 to 4, inclusive, can be replaced with "Right-click on a .mrimg
file, and select Explore Image".

If you copy files individually, you have no versioning. No way to get
at older copies of the same files. You would be stepping atop them each
time you copied them. What you're asking about is call file sync.
There are lots of tools that do that. Robocopy is already included in
Windows. Or you could use Syncback (which I use for file sync), or
FreeFileSync. As I recall, you have to buy SyncBack to get the VSS
support whereas FreeFileSync has it. Some folks mentions Goodsync. It
also has "copy locked files using VSS" mentioned in the manual, but I
don't if the manual describes all features, or encompasses the paid
version. Just remember that you'll only have 1 version of a file to get
from the sync copy: whenever you last ran a sync.

Of course, you could just just the 'copy' command already available in
the OS. However, I found Windows' copy often has errors that results in
you having to figure out which files didn't make it to the destination.
So, I use TeraCopy for large file copies (thousands of files). The free
and paid versions have "copy locked files" support which should mean
they both support VSS (Volume Shadow Service).

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> micky wrote:
>
>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>> image software and do what I want.
>
> Robocopy, and it's already part of your installed Windows. It takes
> an image of the
>
> But Macrium Reflect can give you something Robocopy won't: password-
> protected encryption. It's really a good idea to encrypt your
> backups. If, heaven forbid, someone breaks into your house to rob
> you, you don't want your financial information on that external hard
> drive to be easily accessible.
>
> How likely is it that a burglar would have the computer skills to
> find your account numbers and other information on an unencrypted
> backup disk? Not 100%, but why take chances?

In addition, payware versions of Macrium Reflect include Image Guardian.
When enabled, no process can do anything to the backup files other than
read them. No deletes, renames, moves, encrypting, etc. That protects
the backup files from ransomware. Works by installing a stacked I/O
driver that intercepts any file API calls to the backup files (there are
several filetypes that get protected).

I've had to move the backup files, and got reminded that I had to
disable Guardian before I could do the move, and then reenable it after
the move. The free version doesn't included Guardian. Well, they need
some lures to get users to pay for more features.

https://www.macrium.com/mig

Before Guardian, I had the backup job run pre-job and post-job scripts
(batch files) which reenabled a device (using devcon program in an admin
console window) and mount the device, run the backup (since the drive
would then be available), and then unmount the drive and disable the
device. That way, outside of the backup jobs, the device (drive) was
normally unavailable. However, malware can find and mount devices
trying to find files to delete, rename, move, or encrypt. Also, during
the backup job, the drive was available, so there was a window of
opportunity for lurking malware to discover the files on the backup
drive to fuck them up. Guardian works like a rootkit, so it's harder to
get around.

Guardian wasn't available until about version 7 of Reflect. Plus you
had to buy Reflect to get Guardian. As I recall, I waited for a Black
Friday online sale at macrium.com when Reflect was 50% off. I don't
like subscriptionware, so I bought the perpetual license which is more
expensive. I didn't need more than the Home payware version.

There were some more features of the payware Home version not in the
Free version, but Guardian is the big one that I remember. Besides
protecting me from ransomware fucking my backups, it has also protect me
from myself, or anyone else gaining access to my computer. If you have
kids, they have lots of free time and impetus to screw with your
computer unless you keep it in a locked room. Same for guests you
invite over for a party or to stay on a vacation.

They do have a Christmas sale:

https://www.macrium.com/products/home#buy-reflect-home

Scroll down to the "Happy Holidays" section. However, that's for their
12-month subscriptionware version ($39.99 x .8 = $31.99).

On 2023-12-26 18:25, micky wrote:
> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
> them and copy them back.

Well, for starters, that's not imaging. That's file backup, or
archiving. It will have it sets of characteristics, some pro some
against, but it simply is not "imaging a partition".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 10:00:15 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 12:25:23 -0500, micky wrote:
> > What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> > XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> > Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> > right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> > image software and do what I want.
>
> Robocopy, and it's already part of your installed Windows. It takes
> an image of the

.... image of the partition and then backs _that_ up, thus evading
issues with files being in use.
> But Macrium Reflect can give you something Robocopy won't: password-
> protected encryption. It's really a good idea to encrypt your
> backups. If, heaven forbid, someone breaks into your house to rob
> you, you don't want your financial information on that external hard
> drive to be easily accessible.
>
> How likely is it that a burglar would have the computer skills to
> find your account numbers and other information on an unencrypted
> backup disk? Not 100%, but why take chances?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 12/26/2023 2:51 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>> them and copy them back.
>>
>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>> mixed up.)
>>
>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>> "locked"?)
>
> You can mount a Macrium Reflect image file to get at individual files
> within the image file.

Yup. Micky should know this.

Ghost was one of the first backups, where you could mount the backup.
The later backup program developers, all had to implement the same thing.
Acronis has a mounter. Macrium has a mounter.

Once mounted, you can copy individual files, out of the backup (mounted) K:
K: is my standard assignment for the mounted partition. K: can be
unmounted when I am finished. The Macrium interface, has a letter selector
you can use, to set the partition to K: .

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/c1cjD6Ng/macrium-mounted-backup-K.gif

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 12/26/2023 2:51 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>>> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>>> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>>> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>>> them and copy them back.
>>>
>>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>>> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>>> mixed up.)
>>>
>>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>>> "locked"?)
>>
>> You can mount a Macrium Reflect image file to get at individual files
>> within the image file.
>
> Yup. Micky should know this.
>
> Ghost was one of the first backups, where you could mount the backup.
> The later backup program developers, all had to implement the same thing.
> Acronis has a mounter. Macrium has a mounter.
>
> Once mounted, you can copy individual files, out of the backup (mounted) K:
> K: is my standard assignment for the mounted partition. K: can be
> unmounted when I am finished. The Macrium interface, has a letter selector
> you can use, to set the partition to K: .
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/c1cjD6Ng/macrium-mounted-backup-K.gif
>
> Paul

Too many users don't explore a program nor read its documentation. For
example, most Word users use less than 10% of its features, and never
wander through the menus nor read its included help or even bother to
get a Dummies book from their public library. How many times have you
helped a user when the solution was right there in the menues, or in the
help, or an easy online search? What's obvious to us that are aware of
the solution may not be obvious to those asking for help.

This question got a wealth of information in return, from everyone who
answered. I'm going to see my older brother thursday morning. I'm
taking the laptop but nothing else, and I can't fiddle with the laptop
while I'm not home for fear of messing it up, I'll be back at the end of
January. First trip longer than a weekend in 2 years.

Maybe I'll have time toorrow, maybe not, to do justice to answering even
one of these post except this one, which has a comparitively short
answer, but I red them and I'll reread all of them in February and again
in March.

Thanks a lot.

More below.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 26 Dec 2023 15:52:26 -0500, Paul
<nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 12/26/2023 2:51 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>>> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>>> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>>> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>>> them and copy them back.
>>>
>>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>>> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>>> mixed up.)
>>>
>>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>>> "locked"?)
>>
>> You can mount a Macrium Reflect image file to get at individual files
>> within the image file.
>
>Yup. Micky should know this.

I should, but it's still not real to me until I've done it. And every
day it gets a little less real.

The only time I've ever had to restore an image was before I was making
inages. So I lost a bunch of data.***

Being able to mount images without feeling like I'm interfering with my
regular stuff is another reason I should get another computer working,
more important from my pov than just running Linux
>Ghost was one of the first backups, where you could mount the backup.
>The later backup program developers, all had to implement the same thing.
>Acronis has a mounter. Macrium has a mounter.
>
>Once mounted, you can copy individual files, out of the backup (mounted) K:
>K: is my standard assignment for the mounted partition. K: can be
>unmounted when I am finished. The Macrium interface, has a letter selector
>you can use, to set the partition to K: .

Aha, something I actually know, and have used! I knew we'd find one.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/c1cjD6Ng/macrium-mounted-backup-K.gif
>
> Paul

***(The only thing I've noticed and remember that I miss from that
failure to backup was the complete shopping list I'd made to install a
replacement for my central air conditioning *It took hours to make), but
I probably would not have ever done that anyhow.

(Oh, and I lost an email I wrote to a friend explaining why 13 of the 20
stupid political things he'd written to me were not just bad judgment
but outright false. I was still working on the remaining 7, when,
speaking of Ghost.exe, he ghosted me because I'd told him I didn't want
to be on his politics mailling list, and then I must have argued with
him, and he stopped returning my email and when I called, he replied
with a brief email. I never insulted him, only said his sources were
wrong. What a jerk.) Where was I?

micky wrote on 12/26/23 10:25 AM:
> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
> them and copy them back.
>
> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
> mixed up.)
>
> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
> "locked"?)
>
How big is big ?

1. For many users 'everything'(data, music, pictures, 3rd party
installers obtained, new drivers) are all stored on the same main disk's
partition that holds the operating system.
2. Some users might partition(using 3rd party tools) the main disk with
another partition to store that same 'everything' separate from the o/s
system partion.
3. A smaller percentage might keep 'everything' on a entirely different
disk(internal) or a SDXC card.

Depending on what is being imaged determines the size.

My preference has always been #3(for all my devices).

Iirc, your device and most of your questions are for a Windows 10 system
and most of the response are from the same people that read/reply in the
Windows 10 and Windows 11 groups. It may not be necessary to cross post
to the Windows 11 group.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>them and copy them back.
>
>What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>mixed up.)
>
>**though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>"locked"?)

My backups are very simple, I copy files to an external hard drive,
without using some special software. Makes it very easy to put my
shit onto a new internal drive OS installation, as I did when I
switched to Linux, when I realized that I needed to have everything
backed up and wipe my internal SSD, that was simple because Mint's
installer can handle the NTFS partition that remained, as well as the
external drive, back up what wasn't already on the external, then
restore files once the OS is installed. It's advantageous in that I
don't have to do a complete transfer of every file, each time, just
incremental change.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12/27/2023 2:47 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> micky wrote on 12/26/23 10:25 AM:
>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>> file.  Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>> individually?   Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>> time.  By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>> them and copy them back.
>>
>> What are the problems with that?  The only one I know shows up when
>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>> Agent**.  I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>> right***.   But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>> image software and do what I want.  EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to.  (My
>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>> mixed up.)
>>
>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>> "locked"?)
>>
> How big is big ?
>
> 1. For many users 'everything'(data, music, pictures, 3rd party installers obtained, new drivers) are all stored on the same main disk's partition that holds the operating system.
> 2. Some users might partition(using 3rd party tools) the main disk with another partition to store that same 'everything' separate from the o/s system partion.
> 3. A smaller percentage might keep 'everything' on a entirely different disk(internal) or a SDXC card.
>
> Depending on what is being imaged determines the size.
>
> My preference has always been #3(for all my devices).
>
> Iirc, your device and most of your questions are for a Windows 10 system and most of the response are from the same people that read/reply in the Windows 10 and Windows 11 groups. It may not be necessary to cross post to the Windows 11 group.
>

And a very simplified picture.

+-----+-------------------------+----------------+
| MBR | Windows C: drive 100GB | Data D: 2TB |
+-----+-------------------------+----------------+

If you keep your movie/music collection on the Data partition,
the Data partition can be backed up at a different frequency
than your OS drive C: .

The OS drive C: can still have files on it, but when it is
plugged with stuff, the excess can be moved off to D: .

By keeping C: small, the backup time for it can be
reduced to a reasonable number.

To back up my (not very big) data collection, takes
most of the day, to the backup drive.

There are others here, with media collections on RAID,
and the array of disks takes a significant time to back up.

Computer storage stops being pleasant, when you make
the storage too big. That's why the above picture does
not "delve into excess". Backing up 2TB, you might be
able to finish that, overnight.

When I back up, I try to put one partition per MRIMG,
when the partitions are big. The largest MRIMG in that
case here, is only 1.5TB . And that still takes quite
a while to run a Verify on it, to determine the backup
is still good.

If you run a Verify and the result is bad, it would be
automatic to assume a bad hard drive. But it is just
as possible that the PC has bad RAM, and that corrupted
the backup attempt. That's how I lost several backups
on the other PC. Bad RAM.

Paul

On 12/27/2023 6:21 PM, Joel wrote:
> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>> them and copy them back.
>>
>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>> mixed up.)
>>
>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>> "locked"?)
>
>
> My backups are very simple, I copy files to an external hard drive,
> without using some special software. Makes it very easy to put my
> shit onto a new internal drive OS installation, as I did when I
> switched to Linux, when I realized that I needed to have everything
> backed up and wipe my internal SSD, that was simple because Mint's
> installer can handle the NTFS partition that remained, as well as the
> external drive, back up what wasn't already on the external, then
> restore files once the OS is installed. It's advantageous in that I
> don't have to do a complete transfer of every file, each time, just
> incremental change.
>

This works, because Linux root can mostly access everything on the disk.
The permission model is simpler (for home users). The corporate feature
set will cause hair loss.

And from the Linux side, NTFS has no permissions. The Linux NTFS driver,
only "makes up metadata" to keep the Linux stat() happy. The permissions
shown should be "permissive". It is in a sense, a "shell" of a driver,
a facade, like the front of a cowboy western building. The NTFS driver was
written by reverse engineering, and not by reading a spec and writing code.
This is why only the minimal amount of work was done to build it. It
was hard work watching the bits go on and off and jumping to conclusions.

NTFS *cannot* be accessed at file level, for NTFS New Compression files.
These could be in WinSxS or System32 perhaps. These use custom reparse
points, for which the Linux NTFS driver has no parsing code. A guy at
Paragon was donating a new NTFS driver to Linux, but it was *still*
missing at least one reparse handler (I tested it, it was not ready
for prime time). Microsoft will keep making new reparse points,
until hell freezes over.

If you access a New Compression file, Linux reports "I/O Error", but
don't freak out, your hard drive is not broken and that is not a CRC error!

NTFS *can* be handled from Linux, at a different storage level.
In the same way that Macrium backs up clusters, partclone could
do something similar. Partclone would not know exactly what it
was backing up, but it still can make a copy of a partition for you.

NTFS data partitions (D: Data), Microsoft does not generally foul those up.

Paul

On 2023-12-28 07:12, Paul wrote:
> On 12/27/2023 6:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>>> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>>> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>>> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>>> them and copy them back.
>>>
>>> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
>>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>>> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>>> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>>> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
>>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>>> mixed up.)
>>>
>>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>>> "locked"?)
>>
>>
>> My backups are very simple, I copy files to an external hard drive,
>> without using some special software. Makes it very easy to put my
>> shit onto a new internal drive OS installation, as I did when I
>> switched to Linux, when I realized that I needed to have everything
>> backed up and wipe my internal SSD, that was simple because Mint's
>> installer can handle the NTFS partition that remained, as well as the
>> external drive, back up what wasn't already on the external, then
>> restore files once the OS is installed. It's advantageous in that I
>> don't have to do a complete transfer of every file, each time, just
>> incremental change.
>>
>
> This works, because Linux root can mostly access everything on the disk.
> The permission model is simpler (for home users). The corporate feature
> set will cause hair loss.
>
> And from the Linux side, NTFS has no permissions. The Linux NTFS driver,
> only "makes up metadata" to keep the Linux stat() happy. The permissions
> shown should be "permissive". It is in a sense, a "shell" of a driver,
> a facade, like the front of a cowboy western building. The NTFS driver was
> written by reverse engineering, and not by reading a spec and writing code.
> This is why only the minimal amount of work was done to build it. It
> was hard work watching the bits go on and off and jumping to conclusions.

This is correct, but there are three NTFS drivers in Linux.

There is the old, read-only, ntfs driver in the kernel.

There is ntfs3 ("3" because it implements ntfs 3.1) made by paragon.

There is ntfs-3g, made using "fuse" (it is not a kernel driver). It is
slower but more complete currently, AFAIK,

The ntfs3 driver is currently blacklisted in, for example, openSUSE.

>
> NTFS *cannot* be accessed at file level, for NTFS New Compression files.
> These could be in WinSxS or System32 perhaps. These use custom reparse
> points, for which the Linux NTFS driver has no parsing code. A guy at
> Paragon was donating a new NTFS driver to Linux, but it was *still*
> missing at least one reparse handler (I tested it, it was not ready
> for prime time). Microsoft will keep making new reparse points,
> until hell freezes over.

:-(

>
> If you access a New Compression file, Linux reports "I/O Error", but
> don't freak out, your hard drive is not broken and that is not a CRC error!
>
> NTFS *can* be handled from Linux, at a different storage level.
> In the same way that Macrium backs up clusters, partclone could
> do something similar. Partclone would not know exactly what it
> was backing up, but it still can make a copy of a partition for you.
>
> NTFS data partitions (D: Data), Microsoft does not generally foul those up.
>
> Paul

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul wrote on 12/27/23 4:37 PM:
> On 12/27/2023 2:47 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> micky wrote on 12/26/23 10:25 AM:
>>> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
>>> file.  Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
>>> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
>>> individually?   Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
>>> time.  By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
>>> them and copy them back.
>>>
>>> What are the problems with that?  The only one I know shows up when
>>> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
>>> Agent**.  I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
>>> right***.   But surely there are other programs that work as well as
>>> image software and do what I want.  EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
>>> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to.  (My
>>> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
>>> mixed up.)
>>>
>>> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
>>> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
>>> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
>>> "locked"?)
>>>
>> How big is big ?
>>
>> 1. For many users 'everything'(data, music, pictures, 3rd party installers obtained, new drivers) are all stored on the same main disk's partition that holds the operating system.
>> 2. Some users might partition(using 3rd party tools) the main disk with another partition to store that same 'everything' separate from the o/s system partion.
>> 3. A smaller percentage might keep 'everything' on a entirely different disk(internal) or a SDXC card.
>>
>> Depending on what is being imaged determines the size.
>>
>> My preference has always been #3(for all my devices).
>>
>> Iirc, your device and most of your questions are for a Windows 10 system and most of the response are from the same people that read/reply in the Windows 10 and Windows 11 groups. It may not be necessary to cross post to the Windows 11 group.
>>
>
> And a very simplified picture.
>
> +-----+-------------------------+----------------+
> | MBR | Windows C: drive 100GB | Data D: 2TB |
> +-----+-------------------------+----------------+
>
> If you keep your movie/music collection on the Data partition,
> the Data partition can be backed up at a different frequency
> than your OS drive C: .
>
> The OS drive C: can still have files on it, but when it is
> plugged with stuff, the excess can be moved off to D: .
>
> By keeping C: small, the backup time for it can be
> reduced to a reasonable number.
>
> To back up my (not very big) data collection, takes
> most of the day, to the backup drive.
>
> There are others here, with media collections on RAID,
> and the array of disks takes a significant time to back up.
>
> Computer storage stops being pleasant, when you make
> the storage too big. That's why the above picture does
> not "delve into excess". Backing up 2TB, you might be
> able to finish that, overnight.
>
> When I back up, I try to put one partition per MRIMG,
> when the partitions are big. The largest MRIMG in that
> case here, is only 1.5TB . And that still takes quite
> a while to run a Verify on it, to determine the backup
> is still good.
>
> If you run a Verify and the result is bad, it would be
> automatic to assume a bad hard drive. But it is just
> as possible that the PC has bad RAM, and that corrupted
> the backup attempt. That's how I lost several backups
> on the other PC. Bad RAM.
>
> Paul
>

From what I've seen(over time, multiple years with the same device and
multiple years with new replacing old devices) for many users of consumer
editions of Windows - zero attempts are never made/done to clean out the
useless 'excess' information(data, pics, music, videos, old download
versions of software no longer useful/needed) just keeping everything
forever.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 26/12/2023 18:25, micky wrote:
> I again imaged my harddrive with Macrium Reflect (free) and it's one big
> file. Now that harddrive space is so cheap, wouldn't it be more
> versatile and just as easy to copy every file and store them
> individually? Maybe it would take more time but I don't care about
> time. By versatile I mean that if I need specific files I could go find
> them and copy them back.
>
> What are the problems with that? The only one I know shows up when
> XXCopy won't copy files from newsgroups that are in use by Forte
> Agent**. I tried to use VSScopy to do this but I couldn't do it
> right***. But surely there are other programs that work as well as
> image software and do what I want. EVen Macrium Reflect free will clone
> a disk but only if I have an empty disk to clone it to. (My
> recollection is that Macrium Reflect free used to do this, but maybe I'm
> mixed up.)
>
> **though fwiw it does copy mailboxes open and in use by Eudora.
> ***So now I do backups when Agent is closed, but there are probably many
> other system files that are not able to be copied. (Is the word for that
> "locked"?)

No.

Use Macrium Reflect to make an image of your Windows system drive.
You can use a different backup program to make a backup of your
documents, music, pictures and video folders.
That's what I do and it works well.

Fokke Nauta