"Good morning, considering that my ignorance about Windows
has been going on for a long time, since I tried a program
called Balabolka that is only available for Windows or Mac
(it barely works under Wine, but not well with local
"voices" (SAPI5), it can only use online voices, with
significant slowdown). So, I was reconsidering installing
Windows in a Virtual Machine (specifically Virtual Box).

Since it would not be an upgrade but a fresh installation,
I'm asking the experts in the group:

Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation
on a bare emulated machine, from scratch?

Is it suitable for installation within a virtual machine ?

I would like to purchase a legitimate license, of course,
I'm not interested in pirated stuff, but since I'm buying
it, I would like to know if it would cause any issues in a
virtual hardware environment.

Thank you for your advice.
Goodbye"

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

MarioCCCP wrote:

> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare
> emulated machine, from scratch?

Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would
generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.

On 2/6/24 08:05 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> MarioCCCP wrote:
>
>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare emulated machine, from
>> scratch?
>
> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would generally recommend win11 now,
> all earlier versions are already EoL.
>
>
+1
Also in a VM you are going to have a quite unique set of hardware and drivers to contend with.
If this program, that I've never seen, doesn't require special access to driver based hardware, ie
sound cards, you probably can put any version win10-11 in.

Remember in a VM, you can easily copy the VDI file somewhere to make backups. I suggest after it's
up and running with minimal tweaks (windows that is). Gives you an easy reset point.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

On 06/02/24 14:05, Andy Burns wrote:
> MarioCCCP wrote:
>
>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for
>> installation on a bare emulated machine, from scratch?
>
> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months,
> I would generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions
> are already EoL.
>

and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be
installed and run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?

>

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On 06/02/24 15:34, Big Al wrote:
> On 2/6/24 08:05 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>
>>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for
>>> installation on a bare emulated machine, from scratch?
>>
>> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21
>> months, I would generally recommend win11 now, all earlier
>> versions are already EoL.
>>
>>
> +1
> Also in a VM you are going to have a quite unique set of
> hardware and drivers to contend with.
> If this program, that I've never seen, doesn't require
> special access to driver based hardware, ie sound cards, you
> probably can put any version win10-11 in.
I don't think it would use HW intensively. It is just a
text-to-speech SW that possibly does not even produce sound
and can SAVE OUTPUT directly in an audio file
>
> Remember in a VM, you can easily copy the VDI file somewhere
> to make backups.  I suggest after it's up and running with
> minimal tweaks (windows that is).  Gives you an easy reset
> point.
yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates or
install, once upon a time.
But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or complains
itself ...

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

MarioCCCP wrote:

> and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be installed and
> run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?

yes, Virtual Box (possibly with the non-opensource but free add-on pack)
will have drivers for all the para-virtual devices.

download a windows DVD .iso, mount it within your VM and boot to
install, very easy.

MarioCCCP wrote:

> yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates or install,
> once upon a time.
>
> But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or complains itself ...

Your "guest Win11" won't complain, what is going to be your "host
Virtual Box" a linux box?

On 2/6/2024 11:13 AM, MarioCCCP wrote:
> On 06/02/24 15:34, Big Al wrote:
>> On 2/6/24 08:05 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare emulated machine, from scratch?
>>>
>>> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.
>>>
>>>
>> +1
>> Also in a VM you are going to have a quite unique set of hardware and drivers to contend with.
>> If this program, that I've never seen, doesn't require special access to driver based hardware, ie sound cards, you probably can put any version win10-11 in.
>
> I don't think it would use HW intensively. It is just a text-to-speech SW that possibly does not even produce sound and can SAVE OUTPUT directly in an audio file
>
>>
>> Remember in a VM, you can easily copy the VDI file somewhere to make backups.  I suggest after it's up and running with minimal tweaks (windows that is).  Gives you an easy reset point.
>
> yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates or install, once upon a time.
>
> But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or complains itself ...
>
>

VMWare example (non-commercial usage only) -- Windows 11 works here, but not the best environment.
If the "controls" screw up, you could lose access to the content (keep backup copies!)

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/RFjqHfrf/vmware-bridged.gif

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/DwH24Vw8/W11-on-W11-Vm-Ware-Workstation.gif

The reason that works, is VMWare has "swtpm" module (which you turn on).
That is a TPM 2.0 emulator, which VirtualBox is missing.

The particular version of VMWare *insists* the virtual machine be encrypted.
This is entirely unnecessary and detrimental to easy VM usage. I used
an empty encrypted container called "Windows 11 Template", as the
container for the project (password is 12345). This file is something
somebody made. It's not provided by VMWare staff.

VirtualBox has "Passthru hardware TPM", which means the TPM function
must come from real TPM 2.0 hardware on the computer. That's the reason
I didn't do this W11 in VirtualBox. Portability failure -- cannot move the
VM to the other computer.

You do not need a license to make it work.

The problem with licenses is, you have to use the right kind of license.
One of the group participants, put a license in his VM. When there
was later, a problem with the license, Microsoft Support would not help
him resolve the issue. I take this to mean, you should not expect
sticking a Retail $20 license in a VM, to be the proper way to do it.
I don't know the proper way to license a Windows VM. There might be an
Enterprise license for this purpose.

My test VM still runs (it has no license). I store the materials in
a tar file, because the encrypted container file set cannot be compressed.
(Yes, this is a nuisance.)

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/TYb0Mcw4/vmware-workstation-windows11-today.gif

Windows 10 would be easier -- no TPM is absolutely required for basic
computing purposes. And it might not need encryption thrown into the mix
either. You could do Windows 10 in VirtualBox, with the usual level of
portability (run the same version on your two platforms).

The thing about my W11 example, is it is a 100% serviceable installation.
It should survive version upgrades. There is no reason for it not to work.
When VMWare runs on an MBEC CPU, then the Guest can receive MBEC too.
And the software TPM completes the requirements. CPUs which are not more
than three years old, should have working hardware MBEC.

I nearly lost control of the VMWare example. The configuration file ends
up encrypted too. You cannot edit the configuration file with a text
editor, which is how you "resuscitate" VirtualBox machines when you make
a mistake. I did rescue it. The proof is in the latest picture. Still works.
Snatched from the jaws of death :-) I did lose a few strands of hair,
searching my collection of materials, for a life preserver.

So, yeah, you run W11 as a "bar bet". W10 is practical in a VM. No circus stunts.

Paul

On 2/6/24 04:50 PM, Paul wrote:

>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/RFjqHfrf/vmware-bridged.gif
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/DwH24Vw8/W11-on-W11-Vm-Ware-Workstation.gif
>
> Paul
OT question. Do you know why the first time I click one of your links to a gif, I'm able to see it
and click on the image and it enlarges full-screen. But the 2nd time I click the links, I've lost
that click full-screen.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

On 06/02/24 17:58, Andy Burns wrote:
> MarioCCCP wrote:
>
>> yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates
>> or install, once upon a time.
>>
>> But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or
>> complains itself ...
>
> Your "guest Win11" won't complain, what is going to be your
> "host Virtual Box" a linux box?

VirtualBox run inside a Debian Bookworm host, yes.

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On 06/02/24 17:55, Andy Burns wrote:
> MarioCCCP wrote:
>
>> and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be
>> installed and run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?
>
> yes, Virtual Box (possibly with the non-opensource but free
> add-on pack) will have drivers for all the para-virtual
> devices.
>
> download a windows DVD .iso, mount it within your VM and
> boot to install, very easy.

I don't own a licence to activate the product, I still have
to choose the proper version to buy ...

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

MarioCCCP wrote on 2/6/24 3:46 PM:
> On 06/02/24 17:55, Andy Burns wrote:
>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>
>>> and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be installed and
>>> run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?
>>
>> yes, Virtual Box (possibly with the non-opensource but free add-on
>> pack) will have drivers for all the para-virtual devices.
>>
>> download a windows DVD .iso, mount it within your VM and boot to
>> install, very easy.
>
> I don't own a licence to activate the product, I still have to choose the
> proper version to buy ...
>
Basically two choices.
If you want BitLocker and access to Group Policy Editor choose Pro
If not, choose Home.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/6/2024 5:25 PM, Big Al wrote:
> On 2/6/24 04:50 PM, Paul wrote:
>
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>     https://i.postimg.cc/RFjqHfrf/vmware-bridged.gif
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/DwH24Vw8/W11-on-W11-Vm-Ware-Workstation.gif
>>
>>     Paul
> OT question.   Do you know why the first time I click one of your links to a gif, I'm able to see it and click on the image and it enlarges full-screen.   But the 2nd time I click the links, I've lost that click full-screen.

It's an advertising-fueled site, so I can't
really explain anything about it.

I sometimes right-click and select "View Image",
then go from there.

Paul

On 2/6/24 7:38 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 2/6/2024 5:25 PM, Big Al wrote:
>> On 2/6/24 04:50 PM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>     [Picture]
>>>
>>>     https://i.postimg.cc/RFjqHfrf/vmware-bridged.gif
>>>
>>>     [Picture]
>>>
>>>      https://i.postimg.cc/DwH24Vw8/W11-on-W11-Vm-Ware-Workstation.gif
>>>
>>>     Paul
>> OT question.   Do you know why the first time I click one of your links to a gif, I'm able to see it and click on the image and it enlarges full-screen.   But the 2nd time I click the links, I've lost that click full-screen.
>
> It's an advertising-fueled site, so I can't
> really explain anything about it.
>
> I sometimes right-click and select "View Image",
> then go from there.
>
> Paul
>
I've tried to duplicate Big Al's issue on 4 different browsers.
Newsgroup access in this test is TBird.
- with each Edge, Chrome, Firefox and Seamonkey configured as default.
After setting the default browser, exit TBird and reload this group,
then test clicking the link, then loading in the respective default browser.

The first click yields the image and if clicking the image results in
the expanded image(not full screen, still within the confines of the
browser window). Clicking the enlarged, returns to its original sized view.

The symptom that Big Al reports appears to be a subsequent click while
the browser remains open(with the results of the first in an existing
tab) causing a second tab to be open, without the ability to toggle the
view from enlarge to its original loaded size.
....but that condtion has variation.
=> it may or may not occur on the second tab, but only the third
created tab.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 07/02/24 01:15, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> MarioCCCP wrote on 2/6/24 3:46 PM:
>> On 06/02/24 17:55, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>
>>>> and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be
>>>> installed and run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?
>>>
>>> yes, Virtual Box (possibly with the non-opensource but
>>> free add-on pack) will have drivers for all the
>>> para-virtual devices.
>>>
>>> download a windows DVD .iso, mount it within your VM and
>>> boot to install, very easy.
>>
>> I don't own a licence to activate the product, I still
>> have to choose the proper version to buy ...
>>
> Basically two choices.
>  If you want BitLocker and access to Group Policy Editor
> choose Pro
>  If not, choose Home.
>
and as for the 10 vs 11 issue ?
--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On 2/6/2024 5:41 PM, MarioCCCP wrote:
> On 06/02/24 17:58, Andy Burns wrote:
>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>
>>> yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates or install, once upon a time.
>>>
>>> But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or complains itself ...
>>
>> Your "guest Win11" won't complain, what is going to be your "host Virtual Box" a linux box?
>
> VirtualBox run inside a Debian Bookworm host, yes.
>
>

Win 11 setup.

VirtualBox passes TPM to the Guest via passthru.

Guest <--+
| VirtualBox passes commands
------------ | to the TPM 2.0 chip on
| your motherboard.
Hardware <-+ You need a TPM 2.0 chip on the motherboard

VMWare Workstation uses "swtpm" emulator in hosting software.

Guest <-------- SWTPM from VMWare (actually written by IBM)
| (Win11 installer runs in Guest, because TPM 2.0 is detected)
------------ |
|
Hardware (no TPM 2.0 hardware needed)

For a Windows 10 Guest, this issue does not matter, and
any setup will do.

Paul

MarioCCCP wrote on 2/7/24 4:36 PM:
> On 07/02/24 01:15, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> MarioCCCP wrote on 2/6/24 3:46 PM:
>>> On 06/02/24 17:55, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and as for the other requirements ? Is it supposed to be installed
>>>>> and run smoothly in a virtualized environmente ?
>>>>
>>>> yes, Virtual Box (possibly with the non-opensource but free add-on
>>>> pack) will have drivers for all the para-virtual devices.
>>>>
>>>> download a windows DVD .iso, mount it within your VM and boot to
>>>> install, very easy.
>>>
>>> I don't own a licence to activate the product, I still have to choose
>>> the proper version to buy ...
>>>
>> Basically two choices.
>>   If you want BitLocker and access to Group Policy Editor choose Pro
>>   If not, choose Home.
>>
>
> and as for the 10 vs 11 issue ?
>

Both should run in a VM.
- Good advice already given by others. I'll defer to them.
=> that decision is yours to make.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 08/02/24 04:47, Paul wrote:
> On 2/6/2024 5:41 PM, MarioCCCP wrote:
>> On 06/02/24 17:58, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>
>>>> yes, I used to snapshot before and after critical updates or install, once upon a time.
>>>>
>>>> But I ask if win.11 is virtualization compliant or complains itself ...
>>>
>>> Your "guest Win11" won't complain, what is going to be your "host Virtual Box" a linux box?
>>
>> VirtualBox run inside a Debian Bookworm host, yes.
>>
>>
>
> Win 11 setup.
>
> VirtualBox passes TPM to the Guest via passthru.
>
> Guest <--+
> | VirtualBox passes commands
> ------------ | to the TPM 2.0 chip on
> | your motherboard.
> Hardware <-+ You need a TPM 2.0 chip on the motherboard
>
> VMWare Workstation uses "swtpm" emulator in hosting software.
>
> Guest <-------- SWTPM from VMWare (actually written by IBM)
> | (Win11 installer runs in Guest, because TPM 2.0 is detected)
> ------------ |
> |
> Hardware (no TPM 2.0 hardware needed)
>
> For a Windows 10 Guest, this issue does not matter, and
> any setup will do.
>
> Paul

I didn't even know what TMP was.
Thanks to your (end else's) advices, I decided to give a
chance to VMWare personal edition.

My Impression is of a simplified user interface and a more
sophisticated and robust structure under the hood.

The only strange (strange to me at least) thing I discovered
is the installation of their Tools only before a guest
system is installed, which lead to a two step configuration.
For example the shared folders, requiring the host-side
tools to work, become active only after the installation of
the tools within the host itself.

Apart from this, seems a really smooth experience. Another
weird thing is : when I power off the VM, also VMWare
wrapper shuts down. Not a problem, I relaunch it, just
strange. The resizing of resolution is also fluid.

Ah, blocking some sharing options in Win11 prevents it from
detecting the shared folders exposed as a network. Maybe
there is some complex workaround, but I preferred to
reenable the windows option of PC detection/detectability on
a network to see the folders.

Also very weirdly I shared the very drive in which the
virtual disk stays, so I could commit suicide from within,
killing its own disk :D :D :D
I'll stay carefull.

Also, Win11 seems far better than 10 (I just had some tastes
of both, though).
TNX

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 13:05:30 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>MarioCCCP wrote:
>
>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare
>> emulated machine, from scratch?
>
>Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would
>generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.

Can you get a 32-bit version of Win 11+?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On 2/15/2024 9:56 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 13:05:30 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>
>>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare
>>> emulated machine, from scratch?
>>
>> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would
>> generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.
>
> Can you get a 32-bit version of Win 11+?

No.

Win10 has a 32-bit version. That's the end of 32-bit.

Paul

Steve Hayes wrote:

> Can you get a 32-bit version of Win 11+?

No, Win10 was last 32bit.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 23:13:09 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2/15/2024 9:56 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 13:05:30 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare
>>>> emulated machine, from scratch?
>>>
>>> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would
>>> generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.
>>
>> Can you get a 32-bit version of Win 11+?
>
>No.
>
>Win10 has a 32-bit version. That's the end of 32-bit.

In which case, if Microsoft are no longer going to support it, they
should put in the public domain, open source.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On 2/19/2024 3:32 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 23:13:09 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/15/2024 9:56 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 13:05:30 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> MarioCCCP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Which recent version of Windows is suitable for installation on a bare
>>>>> emulated machine, from scratch?
>>>>
>>>> Given that Win10 will reach end of life in about 21 months, I would
>>>> generally recommend win11 now, all earlier versions are already EoL.
>>>
>>> Can you get a 32-bit version of Win 11+?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Win10 has a 32-bit version. That's the end of 32-bit.
>
> In which case, if Microsoft are no longer going to support it, they
> should put in the public domain, open source.

That's not going to happen :-)

Someone made the mistake of suggesting such a thing, eight years
ago, and he got slapped down (quietly) for that. Just the title string is
all you need to know, as in, it's not going to happen.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/microsoft-open-source-windows-definitely-possible/

How you tell a person got slapped down, is their public behavior changes.

The US Military uses a version of that code. Perhaps without Edge in it :-)

Since there were a couple articles about the US Military adopting that
code, there were no further articles describing how it went.

Paul